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VonVolks

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I feel like I have to post after last nights GB vs Spain battle outside of KPR.

Myself and 2 friends were sailing out for some PVP and a laugh, and noticed a large battle had developed outside of KPR.

We joined and were on the TS channel. What ensued was depressing in so many ways, I hope this post can possibly give some people a chance to re-think how they do things (probably not much chance but you have to try!)

I can't speak for the Spanish but regarding the Brits:

1. As soon as we jumped on the TS channel it was confusion, with no clear commander designated, and multiple people speaking. People were complaining that:

A: Not everyone was on TS

B: Get out of my way

C: People aren't obeying instructions.

 

2. The Brits were also acting as though only the core unit of Brits in the fleet were "worthy" and allowed to play; with people saying if you dont have TS don't join battles. 

3. Players were also acting as though losing their ships was not an acceptable outcome.

 

To respond to the above, I wa very disappointed to see these attitudes.

TEAM SPEAK: As I say We were on TS, but 2 out of the 3 of us were NOT native English speakers, as many people aren't. Also some people dont have the tech. FINALLY it's not a TS based game, it has chat. IF you are trying to run a fleet and know the commander HELP the commander by relaying his instructions CLEARLY into Battle Chat. Its not a twitch game and clear instructions can easily be laid out. Commands should be repeated and updated regularly as people join often and aso need reminding of what to do.

As far as I was aware I had NO idea who was in charge of the fleet when we joined. No one said who was in charge and no one updated order s (and I WAS on TS!) so just blaming TS was not in any way accurate. Communications is important, not TS. TS is just a tool that can help (but can also separate and confuse, as happened yesterday)

TEAMWORK: People were threatening to Ram people out of the way, and moaning about what others were doing, but again there was no clear commands being given on TS or battle chat. How are people meant to know by magic what to do? TS should be silent in battle aside from Command orders and important time critical maneuver instructions. All the people complaining as if they were the experts would have been better off trying to coordinate the fleet in chat, or issuing clear instructions in TS. Just because you feel you are important (or in fact might be important) doesn't mean anyone else knows who you are. Try using peoples names, not "Me" "I" or "You" or "that ship over there".

PVP: If you aren't prepared to lose it, dont PVP in it. The majority of the British fleet decided to leave "Because I am not willing to lose my ship because of these noobs etc". If you feel like that, bring a lesser ship to fights like this, and save your cool ships for well organised raids / PBs, clan outings etc. By doing this about face they left the rest of the fleet (who are playing a GAME and wanted a fight) to their deaths. No biggy, but it doesn't exactly encourage the new players to PVP when the big guns just bail out.

 

 

We still had fun fighting a coni, but once the main SOL fleet had left it was only a matter of time before a bunch of SOLS decided to intervene in our little fight, and we got vapourised, haha

 

Basically try and remember its a game, and played for fun, and to help your nation. Don't act as if you are the most important, just because you are an ace with a big ship. IF You Are important and an ACE with a big ship it's your job to help lead and guide your fleet, not bitch about everyone else who isn't one of your "ace squadron". Everyone bought the game and wants to have fun playing it.

Also remember a commander might issue the ultimate commands, but they need help. If you are senior player, help your commander. Explain orders, relay commands, inform new arrivals, repeat commands, address the fleet as a whole (i.e dont think only of your own ship) and generally try to be a positive influence.

 

Let's hope the next one goes better!  8)

 

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TS for me is a sweaty chore, I'm deaf and have to have all my levels turned up to max, My headphones, my hearing aid, and the personal TS volumes have to be set at their highest, I can hear if people have good mics and don't talk over each other, but when it becomes a clamour and people are just shouting out random instructions I'm lost.

TS/Discord must be a supplement to typed instructions in a battle to be fair to all. Raxius used to type headings for me and others in PB's.

 

As for organisation, nominate an experienced PvPer if there is one at the time, if not then ask for a volunteer and follow their instructions.

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2 hours ago, VonVolks said:

I feel like I have to post after last nights GB vs Spain battle outside of KPR.

Myself and 2 friends were sailing out for some PVP and a laugh, and noticed a large battle had developed outside of KPR.

We joined and were on the TS channel. What ensued was depressing in so many ways, I hope this post can possibly give some people a chance to re-think how they do things (probably not much chance but you have to try!)

I can't speak for the Spanish but regarding the Brits:

1. As soon as we jumped on the TS channel it was confusion, with no clear commander designated, and multiple people speaking. People were complaining that:

A: Not everyone was on TS

B: Get out of my way

C: People aren't obeying instructions.

 

2. The Brits were also acting as though only the core unit of Brits in the fleet were "worthy" and allowed to play; with people saying if you dont have TS don't join battles. 

3. Players were also acting as though losing their ships was not an acceptable outcome.

 

To respond to the above, I wa very disappointed to see these attitudes.

TEAM SPEAK: As I say We were on TS, but 2 out of the 3 of us were NOT native English speakers, as many people aren't. Also some people dont have the tech. FINALLY it's not a TS based game, it has chat. IF you are trying to run a fleet and know the commander HELP the commander by relaying his instructions CLEARLY into Battle Chat. Its not a twitch game and clear instructions can easily be laid out. Commands should be repeated and updated regularly as people join often and aso need reminding of what to do.

As far as I was aware I had NO idea who was in charge of the fleet when we joined. No one said who was in charge and no one updated order s (and I WAS on TS!) so just blaming TS was not in any way accurate. Communications is important, not TS. TS is just a tool that can help (but can also separate and confuse, as happened yesterday)

TEAMWORK: People were threatening to Ram people out of the way, and moaning about what others were doing, but again there was no clear commands being given on TS or battle chat. How are people meant to know by magic what to do? TS should be silent in battle aside from Command orders and important time critical maneuver instructions. All the people complaining as if they were the experts would have been better off trying to coordinate the fleet in chat, or issuing clear instructions in TS. Just because you feel you are important (or in fact might be important) doesn't mean anyone else knows who you are. Try using peoples names, not "Me" "I" or "You" or "that ship over there".

PVP: If you aren't prepared to lose it, dont PVP in it. The majority of the British fleet decided to leave "Because I am not willing to lose my ship because of these noobs etc". If you feel like that, bring a lesser ship to fights like this, and save your cool ships for well organised raids / PBs, clan outings etc. By doing this about face they left the rest of the fleet (who are playing a GAME and wanted a fight) to their deaths. No biggy, but it doesn't exactly encourage the new players to PVP when the big guns just bail out.

 

 

We still had fun fighting a coni, but once the main SOL fleet had left it was only a matter of time before a bunch of SOLS decided to intervene in our little fight, and we got vapourised, haha

 

Basically try and remember its a game, and played for fun, and to help your nation. Don't act as if you are the most important, just because you are an ace with a big ship. IF You Are important and an ACE with a big ship it's your job to help lead and guide your fleet, not bitch about everyone else who isn't one of your "ace squadron". Everyone bought the game and wants to have fun playing it.

Also remember a commander might issue the ultimate commands, but they need help. If you are senior player, help your commander. Explain orders, relay commands, inform new arrivals, repeat commands, address the fleet as a whole (i.e dont think only of your own ship) and generally try to be a positive influence.

 

Let's hope the next one goes better!  8)

 

it wont happen again

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1 hour ago, seanjo said:

TS for me is a sweaty chore, I'm deaf and have to have all my levels turned up to max, My headphones, my hearing aid, and the personal TS volumes have to be set at their highest, I can hear if people have good mics and don't talk over each other, but when it becomes a clamour and people are just shouting out random instructions I'm lost.

TS/Discord must be a supplement to typed instructions in a battle to be fair to all. Raxius used to type headings for me and others in PB's.

 

As for organisation, nominate an experienced PvPer if there is one at the time, if not then ask for a volunteer and follow their instructions.

I feel you man I'm low tone deaf in my left ear and have a good bit of lost in both over all range.   When there is a lot of clutter or folks talking at once I can't hear anything and I been port caller in the past so it's important that I hear certain calls.  I do have all my game ambient, music and other settings either turned off or way low to help with this.  We have had special needs players before in battles with us and if they can't hear us we have no problem getting some one to type the commands that the leader makes for the fight. Before I was caller I use to do this when we would have the randoms join port battles that refuse to use TS with us so I would type out the important commands for the fleet to the other players.  Though another thing that helps is to have a buddy system.  Or Wingman if one wants to call it that way, stick to him and he can hear the commands and act accordly.

 

The good thing about being partially deaf is you can use it as an excuse why you didn't hear the SO say something.....lol....and no this does not work even when they know you can't hear for crap out of that one side...lol

Edited by Sir Texas Sir
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42 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

it wont happen again

April fools was the day before!  8)

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A fellow that relays TS orders into team chat is a must.

It helps everyone :)

 

( in many multiplayer games I simply mute like half the people as they really think they are being funny when they aren't. Especially those that call every other player a "retard", "idiot", etc )

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Was this battle the reason EXILE have gone flouncing off in a hissy fit?

 

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1 hour ago, Grundgemunkey said:

it wont happen again

It will, and we both know it.

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This is the biggest problem with the new safe zone RoE. Organised teams are coming to the safe zones and engaging in battles with pick up groups. There is only ever going to be one winner in such battles.

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18 minutes ago, Cabral said:

It will, and we both know it.

not with me in it because i wont be joining those battles

 

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What?!?  You mean these arent the "fabulous, ever-increasing battles" that everyone thought would happen from leaving battles open for long amounts of time?   I was ASSURED by people like @fox2run that people would flock to help their mates and they would be the best battles EVER!!  

 

Surely this must be the case?

Edited by Vernon Merrill
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In the moment of action remember the value of silence and order.

- Phormio of Athens

-rome total war loading screen

Edited by Slim McSauce
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5 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

What?!?  You mean these arent the "fabulous, ever-increasing battles" that everyone thought would happen from leaving battles open for long amounts of time?   I was ASSURED by people like @fox2run that people would flock to help their mates and they would be the best battles EVER!!  

 

Surely this must be the case?

There have been some very good ones.

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22 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

In the moment of action remember the value of silence and order.

- Phormio of Athens

-rome total war loading screen

Ah but so few do. The quieter a TS the more likely that team will win.

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10 hours ago, VonVolks said:

<snip>

 

Thank you, I agree completely - and one of the reasons why when I was playing Naval Action for 6 hours a day I still couldn't stand to be in TS. There's too much ridiculousness that goes on with it, and key communications can be relayed with chat. People just don't like to admit it most of the time. I've had this argument to great lengths with folks here on the forum, including Grundgemonkey. They are simply not willing or able to accept that their way is not the most superior, and they have a vested interest in ensuring that things are never "their fault".

 

As @VonVolks said so well: "It is just a game".

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it's so interesting, playing Naval Action with others on Teamspeak was the first time to witness breakdown in comms discipline and people shouting over each other.

Never in other games was it ever as bad as it seems to always be in Naval Action - I'm not sure why honestly. A few clanmates have said it best though (time and time again) "There are too many Chiefs and not enough Indians."

games like Eve Online, WoT, Warthunder, Albion Online. All these games I played with groups and still do - when someone isn't following comms Discipline they are booted - simple. If they want to continue then they must follow comms discipline. Does it make friends? not all the time. Does it keep the battle calm, Orders given out clearly, and information being clear? Yes, yes it does.

When you've been in a  Eve Online teamspeak with 200 other people in fleet and only 2-5 fleet commanders are giving orders and everyone is following commands? That's heaven. come to Naval action? got 7 guys in teamspeak in a battle and they all are trying to tell the others to do what they want and it's a mess. heck I've been in a mumble server with over 1,000 people and it's just wonderful with how organized it is.

If i'm in a battle and Teamspeak has everyone yelling and no organization? i just leave the battle now and just hook up with folks I know won't be running around like headless chickens, makes it much more enjoyable.

Edited by Teutonic
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13 minutes ago, VonVolks said:

Ah but so few do. The quieter a TS the more likely that team will win.

there's a time and place for jokes, silliness and salt, but the middle of a crucial battle is not one of them. Once chatter takes over comms on a public TS it takes a few busted balls to restore discipline. You may lose some friendly standings, but it's what's required if you want your nation to be successful in the long run

Edited by Slim McSauce
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Just now, Slim McSauce said:

there's a time and place for jokes, silliness and salt, but the middle of a crucial battle is not one of them. Once chatter takes over comms on a public TS it takes a few busted balls to restore discipline. You may lose some friendly standings, but it's for the best if you want your nation to be successful.

I must add that bringing the ships that a fleet commander asks with the right wood trims is also part of organization and discipline and it just amazes when folks continue to ignore it. (mainly just for port battles though, so this is only a niche situation)

I myself have been on both sides of the coin.

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5 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

I must add that bringing the ships that a fleet commander asks with the right wood trims is also part of organization and discipline and it just amazes when folks continue to ignore it. (mainly just for port battles though, so this is only a niche situation)

I myself have been on both sides of the coin.

The worse thing is asking people what build their ship is prior to battle, and they themselves don't know, granted it's only happened a handful of times. It still shakes me a bit that people come out to PVP not knowing the most general info of their own ship.

but we live and learn, can't say I haven't gotten a PVP and PVE ship mixed up in port a few times.

Edited by Slim McSauce

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2 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

The worse thing is asking people what build their ship is prior to battle, and they themselves don't know, granted it's only happened a handful of times. It still shakes me a bit that people come out to PVP not knowing the most general info of their own ship.

but we live and learn, can't say I haven't gotten a PVP and PVE ship mixed up in port a few times.

What is a PvE ship?  Is that what them young kids now a days be calling trade ships?

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9 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

What?!?  You mean these arent the "fabulous, ever-increasing battles" that everyone thought would happen from leaving battles open for long amounts of time?   I was ASSURED by people like @fox2run that people would flock to help their mates and they would be the best battles EVER!!  

 

Surely this must be the case?

Does anyone expect any change, no matter how good, to turn this ship around at this point?  Maybe on full Beta and Release the game will get back to a usable number of players, but I doubt it will make it to that point.  At this point, there is no flock to flock.  Just a few strays here and there.

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1 hour ago, VonVolks said:

whatever ship i can find is what i sail

 

True, i was refering to port battle organization mainly and I apologize if it came as "any battle anywhere." 

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10 hours ago, Teutonic said:

True, i was refering to port battle organization mainly and I apologize if it came as "any battle anywhere." 

Ah point taken!

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14 hours ago, Teutonic said:

When you've been in a  Eve Online teamspeak with 200 other people in fleet and only 2-5 fleet commanders are giving orders and everyone is following commands? That's heaven. come to Naval action? got 7 guys in teamspeak in a battle and they all are trying to tell the others to do what they want and it's a mess. heck I've been in a mumble server with over 1,000 people and it's just wonderful with how organized it is.

Its because of the size of the group I believe. 200 people in one TS is very different from 15 or 20. Also a commander can only tell so much, in a brawl everyone needs to talk when he needs help, call out weak targets etc in my opinion.

Also I dont understand how people enjoy being in a TS with a ton of other people and only listening to orders. For me thats very boring and players are basically just numbers, I felt like a bot or something. Communication is a big part of what makes games fun and competetive for me.

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