Patch 14: Part 2 experimental patch increasing realism in ship behavior

[PenguPirate]

@admin Any consideration on letting players move from Carribbean to the PvE server? A one-off sign-your-name-here move? It seems the changes to the economy has left a number of players unable to enjoy the game as much as it was possible, whether it be fear of losing ships they can't replace, or being limited to sailing in safe zones. I believe some players would sacrifice the thrill of PvP actions for the more stress-free environments that is less affected by drastic economy changes like this.The Carribbean server economy would take a hit with less of the more PvE-inclined players, and there will be fewer targets for the PvP enthusiasts but this way, casual players can at least enjoy sailing ships they like, and sailing with other players in missions or against OW fleets. 

I think the main reason preventing many from moving over is that they'd have to start over and grind up again. 

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by PenguPirate

[Jake Newport]

14 minutes ago, Peiper said:

Perhaps that is the route Naval Action should go for PVP rewards.  PVP players play hard and necessarily spend extra hours in the game.  Perhaps if what they earned was something special, without being overpowered, that would be a better route to go than putting content behind a wall.  How about PVP only earned paint jobs?  What about slightly different looking designs with the same stats as other ships (more/less decoration, a hermione that doesn't look like a clown shoe or a 3rd rate with stripes?)  Maybe slightly different cannon layouts, without changing the cannon counts.  Decorated sails.  There's lots of things that could be added to the game to earn.  And put stuff in for us non-pvper's too.  Stuff we can find in shipwrecks, stuff we can craft with exotic goods, exploration missions where we find colors (other than colors PVP players earn) to paint our ships.  

2nd and 1st rates should be the reward for the better players and since it is a PvP server it should be going to the better PvP players. This would be kinda historical as well as the best captains got the best ships. A world were the sea is full with big ships is a bit absurd. Maybe the devs can drop a permit for a SOL in with OW AI fleets but it should be something special. 

Too many people sailing big ships that they do not know how to sail and then complaining that they lost it. I can understand you Peiper that you just want to sail around a bit, shoot some AI fleet and loot whatever is in it but hey sometimes you will loose a ship with doing that. Bellona and Bucantaure are still cheap to craft when it comes to marks.

Your suggestion about the loot dropping is nice but to PvP and get some fancy paint or something is more a bragging thing then something that is actually usefull. To be honest if you take the time to PvP and RvR your reward should be a bit bigger then that.

Still many things are lacking in the game and one is something for the casual sailor to do. Missions do get boring after a while and i find the trading missions really lacking in substance or reward

[Peiper]

3 minutes ago, PenguPirate said:

@admin Any consideration on letting players move from Carribbean to the PvE server? A one-off sign-your-name-here move? It seems the changes to the economy has left a number of players unable to enjoy the game as much as it was possible, whether it be fear of losing ships they can't replace, or being limited to sailing in safe zones. I believe some players would sacrifice the thrill of PvP actions for the more stress-free environments that is less affected by drastic economy changes like this.The Carribbean server economy would take a hit with less of the more PvE-inclined players, and there will be fewer targets for the PvP enthusiasts but this way, casual players can at least enjoy sailing ships they like, and sailing with other players in missions or against OW fleets. 

I think the main reason preventing many from moving over is that they'd have to start over and grind up again. 

 

Are my PVP friends and guild going to come with me?  I just switched nations to stay with my friends.  While I often play solo (partly because I play off-hours) I still like to help my guild out and play with friends from time to time.  Some of those friends I've known for years.

2 minutes ago, Ctulhu74 said:

2nd and 1st rates should be the reward for the better players and since it is a PvP server it should be going to the better PvP players. This would be kinda historical as well as the best captains got the best ships. A world were the sea is full with big ships is a bit absurd. Maybe the devs can drop a permit for a SOL in with OW AI fleets but it should be something special. 

Too many people sailing big ships that they do not know how to sail and then complaining that they lost it. I can understand you Peiper that you just want to sail around a bit, shoot some AI fleet and loot whatever is in it but hey sometimes you will loose a ship with doing that. Bellona and Bucantaure are still cheap to craft when it comes to marks.

Your suggestion about the loot dropping is nice but to PvP and get some fancy paint or something is more a bragging thing then something that is actually usefull. To be honest if you take the time to PvP and RvR your reward should be a bit bigger then that.

Still many things are lacking in the game and one is something for the casual sailor to do. Missions do get boring after a while and i find the trading missions really lacking in substance or reward

Why can't we have both?  And I AM a good sailor.  Maybe not the greatest, but as I said, I have nothing to prove.  I've already proved it before the big wipe.  I've already earned my stripes.  But putting that aside. EVERYONE wants to at least try sailing the big ships.  I enjoy blowing up AI in big ships.  So what?  Why take that away from me or other casuals. We're not hurting anyone.  We're not doing anything that is a detriment to the game at all.  We're just playing the game and enjoying ourselves.  I remember building Santis back in the day because some guys would take them out and lose them to AI.  They'd grind out the mats, I'd build them another one free of charge, because THAT is the pleasure for them.  I'd go sail with them and hang my head as they sunk another of my masterpieces.  But they were having fun!  WE were having fun!  I'm a live and let live kinda guy.  

There's room enough for every kind of player in a game like this.  Except those who want to lord their prowess over the rest of us.  Those kind of people are toxic.  Don't be like them.  Recognize that we are all here for different reasons, and there's room for all of us.  Perhaps I'll even pvp you one day?  But that day won't come if I can't enjoy the game my way, just as you wouldn't play if you couldn't enjoy it your way.  Right?

[PenguPirate]

39 minutes ago, Ctulhu74 said:

2nd and 1st rates should be the reward for the better players and since it is a PvP server it should be going to the better PvP players. This would be kinda historical as well as the best captains got the best ships. A world were the sea is full with big ships is a bit absurd. Maybe the devs can drop a permit for a SOL in with OW AI fleets but it should be something special. 

Too many people sailing big ships that they do not know how to sail and then complaining that they lost it. I can understand you Peiper that you just want to sail around a bit, shoot some AI fleet and loot whatever is in it but hey sometimes you will loose a ship with doing that. Bellona and Bucantaure are still cheap to craft when it comes to marks.

Your suggestion about the loot dropping is nice but to PvP and get some fancy paint or something is more a bragging thing then something that is actually usefull. To be honest if you take the time to PvP and RvR your reward should be a bit bigger then that.

Still many things are lacking in the game and one is something for the casual sailor to do. Missions do get boring after a while and i find the trading missions really lacking in substance or reward

The main argument with giving better players better equipments is that it makes overcoming them a lot harder. In real life you want your best captains to have the best ships to be able to effectively attack and subdue the enemies, eliminating their potential to inflict damage on your forces as the war progress. If you can achieve sea/air dominance, that's a great bonus for your forces. In a game, however, the subdued are other players who want access to similar contents. If a player takes out a Victory, loses it to another player in a constution, then replaces it with another victory, I'm willing to bet he won't be making the mistakes that costs him the first victory. Of course, it'd take a few Victories, and I don't mean it for them to just keep throwing first rates until they can sail it effectively, but for them to be put in a situation where they can't replace their loss until a ridiculous amount of time, or to start ensuring the game rather than enjoying it is a problem. 

The issue with PvP marks is that for casual players, they don't see it as a probable item to be gotten. It is not a "if I spend 30mins per day for 3 weeks, I'd have a first rate." It's more of a " I need all these factors to be true to get some PvP marks".

 

28 minutes ago, Peiper said:

Are my PVP friends and guild going to come with me?  I just switched nations to stay with my friends.  While I often play solo (partly because I play off-hours) I still like to help my guild out and play with friends from time to time.  Some of those friends I've known for years.

Why can't we have both?  And I AM a good sailor.  Maybe not the greatest, but as I said, I have nothing to prove.  I've already proved it before the big wipe.  I've already earned my stripes.  But putting that aside. EVERYONE wants to at least try sailing the big ships.  I enjoy blowing up AI in big ships.  So what?  Why take that away from me or other casuals. We're not hurting anyone.  We're not doing anything that is a detriment to the game at all.  We're just playing the game and enjoying ourselves.  I remember building Santis back in the day because some guys would take them out and lose them to AI.  They'd grind out the mats, I'd build them another one free of charge, because THAT is the pleasure for them.  I'd go sail with them and hang my head as they sunk another of my masterpieces.  But they were having fun!  WE were having fun!  I'm a live and let live kinda guy.  

There's room enough for every kind of player in a game like this.  Except those who want to lord their prowess over the rest of us.  Those kind of people are toxic.  Don't be like them.  Recognize that we are all here for different reasons, and there's room for all of us.  Perhaps I'll even pvp you one day?  But that day won't come if I can't enjoy the game my way, just as you wouldn't play if you couldn't enjoy it your way.  Right?

Personally, I picked PvP because at the time I found out I could do both PvE and PvP and have access to all the ships. I am not ashamed to admit that the prospect of sailing a Victory and engaging in ships of the line engagement was the main reason for me to even look into naval action.  However, given the recent changes and the more vocal PvP'er cry of "This is PvP. You want fun, go play PvE", I'd not be surprised if others would take the PvE route this time around. It's a game. People want to relax. They can't maintain a state of ruthless competitiveness everytime they log on. It's not being soft/a carebear, wanting to be given everything, it's just we have different levels of commitment we can put into this game. 

I actually enjoy PvP'ing enough and have clanmates that does PvP with me so the whole experience has been tolerable.

Edited December 27, 2017 by PenguPirate

[staun]

4 hours ago, admin said:

We believe that victory marks won't be expensive and situation will actually remain the same as before, despite changing victory marks to pvp marks.
There will be no pushing out and ports will be the same due to still large supply of VMs. The change of combat marks to pvp marks for VMs will soon be accepted as the new normal.

You belive, But you dont know. Well we are here to test. So we will find out soon enough. 

Personally I dont care how we need to pay for a ship. All I ask for it that we play on a level field. What happens in RvR had a huge impact for a nation. Have you done the math on how many hours a nation do need to pvp to get the same VM as the first place. 

[Odol]

4 hours ago, Peiper said:

YOU TOOK THAT AWAY FROM ME with this patch.  I will never get my 2 wasa combo back now, and I have never participated in ganking newbs.  I leave player traders alone.   I sailed two hours to get to a port battle today because I had extra time and earned ONE pvp mark.  HOW DOES A GUY LIKE ME GET BACK WHAT I'VE LOST?

Sounds like you broke EVE rule number 1, Dont fly what you cant afford.  

 

In this case dont sail what you cant replace.

 

I dont own a Wasa, dont want a Wasa, dont like the Wasa, and everything I sail I can replace with ease... I login maybe once a week for 4 hours at most.

[Vernon Merrill]

MUST......   RESIST.....  URGE......  TO.....  TROLL.......

[Seraphic Radiance]

On 12/26/2017 at 6:48 AM, admin said:

Update has been deployed today - 26th December

• Removed victory mark requirements in blueprint and permit acquisitions for all ships except for first rates
• Reduced prices for PvP content in pvp marks because previously the catered to top pvp players but not the average players (it should be better now)
• Fixed an important bug with bot reload getting stuck from time to time
• Increased cool down and time to recover crew on the surgeon - surgeon was working too fast and too often during battles and it had to be nerfed.

Final changes for ship physics including leeway and adaptation of all light ships is being prepared. 
New year gifts will be distributed with the forthcoming patch (part 3 of sailing model improvements)

This week?

[Seraphic Radiance]

On 12/26/2017 at 7:35 AM, Borch said:

Look, I'm far away from being a hater without reason. Like I said in my post you quoted, "thank you" for trying. Now, I also have pointed out plenty of things that will make your patch not work. The only thjing you are interested here though is spreading false statements. How making a new ship is prooving anything? Ships are great, ships are needed, but ships without content are not a content for long.

Again, with the recent changes you promote empty port taking from the strongest. You want people in whole nation to work for the opportunity to sail the best ships ( 1 clan alone wont do). Its actually easier to move your clan to strongest nation than to fight in current example Prussia or Commonwealth. In order to do that I would have to play with people I dont like (for example that sorry a** dude who liked to tell his clanmates to shut the f**k up). How do you want that to be plesant experience after whole working day?

On top of that this gamepley is just rinse and repeat. Take some territory, spread too much, become to weak to protect all ports so smaller nations can grab some land and advance on the leaderboard. How long can people whitstand that?

Where in all of this is place for casual,solo players? Traders, crafters and casual PvP'ers who would like to hunt for smaller targets instead fighting aroud colored dots? Are you going to make 1 dimensional game for only handfull of players? I assure you that it wont work if you wont have a proper playerbase.

Finnaly please proof me wrong with my last statement by showing us new content (but not ships), where I can use your beautifull new Christian as that what we have in game is not enough for this game to survive in the long term.

Again, I'm not hater. I do reality checks from time to time though. So should you.

Can't agree more. Adding few new ships won't change anything. Yes it is content, but it doesn't help game live. Even stupid potbs had fleet drops that were worth millions. What can NA offer? Nothing. @admin needs to take a look at EvE online 

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Combat_sites

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Ghost_Sites

introduce similar concept in NA and you are all set. Have mark, BP, rare mod drop chance in each mission or expedition and even rare sails and ship note. RvR is good, but that should not be a priority. As of today NA rating 48% from 60 recent reviews.

Percent    Letter Grade 

73 - 76    C

70 - 72    C-

67 - 69    D+

63 - 66    D

63 - 0      F

People are not happy for some reason. Very sad. 

Edited December 27, 2017 by Seraphic Radiance

[Landsman]

1 hour ago, Odol said:

dont like the Wasa

But the Wasa likes you and it will find you...  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )

[Seraphic Radiance]

2 hours ago, Odol said:

I login maybe once a week for 4 hours at most.

Why so little I wonder? Oh wait there are better games out there. 

[Kubrat]

7 hours ago, Peiper said:

I will never get my 2 wasa combo back now, and I have never participated in ganking newbs.  I leave player traders alone.   I sailed two hours to get to a port battle today because I had extra time and earned ONE pvp mark.  HOW DOES A GUY LIKE ME GET BACK WHAT I'VE LOST?

 

Remember there is still an economy, PVP marks and VMs are purchasable from other players.  Price has not settled down yet but sellers were at 6.5m last night and buyers were at 3m, so expect somewhere in the middle.

So if you really want another Wasa, you can buy the marks.  Your Wasa might cost you more than before but it is certainly not unobtainable.  

I lost my Wasa too, casually attacking a really good PVPer because I figure that is how you learn, and thinking I had plenty of CMs to replace it - not realizing that the change had come in that day (hadn't checked patch notes).  So I am switching to Bellona until I can find a way to get a Wasa back. Have you considered that? Bellona is a fantastic ship that eats OW fleets for breakfast.

Finally, if want you wish to do, exclusively, is PVE, as you have described, there is a PVE server where you can get all that you have asked for.  Not telling you to go there, just pointing out that PVE is catered for with all content and the time zone might suit you better (I understand how it is more exciting to be on a PVP server even if all one wants to do is PVE)

May the wind be ever at your back

[jodgi]

9 hours ago, Jesters-Ink said:

the players were right.

They were first and foremost divided. So, yeah, some of them were right.

[Kubrat]

22 minutes ago, Kubrat said:

Remember there is still an economy, PVP marks and VMs are purchasable from other players.  Price has not settled down yet but sellers were at 6.5m last night and buyers were at 3m, so expect somewhere in the middle.

Further to this, people are offering 3-4 VMs this morning for rare books, so PVE fleet farmers can still get the marks just doing what you are doing. Price for VM now 6m...

[CaptainCaveMan]

6 hours ago, Odol said:

Sounds like you broke EVE rule number 1, Dont fly what you cant afford.  

 

In this case dont sail what you cant replace.

 

I dont own a Wasa, dont want a Wasa, dont like the Wasa, and everything I sail I can replace with ease... I login maybe once a week for 4 hours at most.

Not a constructive or cogent statement...but to be expected.

[PenguPirate]

7 hours ago, Odol said:

Sounds like you broke EVE rule number 1, Dont fly what you cant afford.  

 

In this case dont sail what you cant replace.

 

I dont own a Wasa, dont want a Wasa, dont like the Wasa, and everything I sail I can replace with ease... I login maybe once a week for 4 hours at most.

Don't all the ship on eve costs isk only? And you just need to train the skills needed to fly them? I mean a crazy ba$tard can just buy a couple hundred Plex with real money, sell that for isk, and buy the ships, while the skills needed takes real time to learn. Or has the system changed that much after I left?

Also, I believe he COULD afford to have them replace, but since the patch he can't and now he has to mothball them.

Edited December 27, 2017 by PenguPirate

[PenguPirate]

6 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

MUST......   RESIST.....  URGE......  TO.....  TROLL.......

Do eet, captain. Do it for the lulz

 

But expect the general standard of the thread to drop

Edited December 27, 2017 by PenguPirate

[Jesters-Ink]

5 hours ago, jodgi said:

They were first and foremost divided. So, yeah, some of them were right.

Let me fix that for you, the Devs weren't.

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

9 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

MUST......   RESIST.....  URGE......  TO.....  TROLL.......

i begrudgingly [BACKSPACED] everything I typed... as i think i would've been banned if i posted what i wanted to say.

(not because of your post, but your quote made me smile. ty)

Edited December 28, 2017 by WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

9 hours ago, Seraphic Radiance said:

People are not happy for some reason. Very sad. 

Steam reviews are like Yelp reviews. Pointless, unless used by the company or product creator they are attempting to review as a means to retort or criticize their point of view in a humorous manner. It is quite tiresome since I have dealt with retail and other such positions in my youth where the custom expects great customer service and it is nice at times I can see for the retailer or owners to vent back.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Davos Seasworth

[jodgi]

1 hour ago, Jesters-Ink said:

the Devs weren't.

You only saw the last dura discussion based on your forum birthdate.

Anyhoo, I don't care much about duras, how to get people to accept fights is way bigger than the dura factor.

[jodgi]

15 hours ago, Peiper said:

I also hate PVP anyway. 

Why bother with books and upgrades if you PVE?

[PenguPirate]

15 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Why bother with books and upgrades if you PVE?

Makes sailing a bit more fun?

[jodgi]

27 minutes ago, PenguPirate said:

Makes sailing a bit more fun?

But he's on about mothballing ships because he can't afford to play/lose them and/or upgrades. Sounds like long pve grinds and expensive stuff leads to more problems than fun.

[PenguPirate]

2 hours ago, jodgi said:

But he's on about mothballing ships because he can't afford to play/lose them and/or upgrades. Sounds like long pve grinds and expensive stuff leads to more problems than fun.

So no more PvE grind?