Patch 14: Part 2 experimental patch increasing realism in ship behavior

[Christendom]

so just spitballing Ideas here.  @admin

How about bringing back the instant PB ideas, but bring back the flag system that can only be purchased by victory marks.  Thus making them important.

[GhastlyGhost]

28 minutes ago, admin said:

 We tried Victory marks for everyone and they did not achieve what we want.

And what do you want ?

Reduction numbers of Line ships 1st 2nd rate ? I will realy glad to see this after realase but at the moment it is impossible. By do this you eliminate most of nation. 

Dear devs please stop changing the things that work in Naval Action at this moment and go focus on this what NA NEED.

We need BR adjustment !

We need interface !

WE NEED CONTENT !

and EU server back !

Edited December 21, 2017 by GhastlyGhost

[Spitfire83]

OK so I am feeling salty today so 1st sorry admin..

The problem with RVR as I see it & for others I'm sure is different is.

Time,effort, risk involved in RVR or port battle event does not equal rewards......so rewards for port battles are as followed and problems with rewards.

Pvp marks- more easily obtained from ganking gankers or being a gankers at other nations capital area or open world.

Ports- no reward costs more to own then you can profit from owning them. Except afew ports.own to many your screwed as need to grind pve all day to pay for them.

 

Victory marks- currently used to obtain ships that are mostly obsolete 1st rates are barely in game except to grind PB hostility missions rarely used in PB events or to grind cash fast. Only other ship currently using Vic marks that is used by community is heavy rattle but if 1 RVR Fleet can't obtain h-rattle and other does why even defend port?

And here lies  the problem if the rewards from Port battles/RVR make the strongest nation stronger then this makes beating the best harder and harder, snowball effect weather it be upgrades, op meta ships or pvp marks as pvp marks buy some op upgrades/books.  But if the rewards are not some how worthwhile then why bother with RVR...

So the question is to both the community and devs what should or could the rewards be from RVR port battles to make it a worthwhile experience for individuals/clans be without making winning nations OP. Answers on a postcard or below...

 

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Spitfire83
Can't spell, should be at work trying to write quick before I get busted

[Seraphic Radiance]

38 minutes ago, admin said:

We are interested in opinions of the supporting base but will push our design if we disagree with those opinions. 

ps legends is a side offshoot of a proven tested design (sea trials). NA is still a main game. 
 

Legends cost you all the likes on FB. People hate when they see you go work on other games while theirs is not moving. Can't you see it? One product at the time I think would be much better. Quality over quantity.  

Edited December 21, 2017 by Seraphic Radiance

[BossaNova]

finally you found a smart way to close down the smaller nations

 

[Seraphic Radiance]

6 minutes ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

Make a map wipe and everybody goes back to start.

You mean quit? 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Seraphic Radiance

[Valentine Karrde]

1 hour ago, Demsity said:

If you think that ships just sailed in a straight line, exchanging broadsides to each other then I have news for you friend.

Most maneuvering was done leading up to the gunfire exchange. And after, yes raking occurred but these tight turning arcade matches we have are not even close to reality. People buy this game expecting epic broadside duels and we get...this whatever this is. It's fun in its own way, but the cheese factor is up there.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Valentine Karrde

[admin]

10 minutes ago, Valentine Karrde said:

Most maneuvering was done leading up to the gunfire exchange. And after, yes raking occurred but these tight turning arcade matches we have are not even close to reality. People buy this game expecting epic broadside duels and we get...this whatever this is. It's fun in its own way, but the cheese factor is up there.

epic broadside duels in lines is not Age of Sail. epic broadside duels were discredited by Sir John the Clerk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Clerk_of_Eldin

Majority of references show ships fully or partially demasted during battle and beautiful lines led to nothing (which was proven by Sir John the Clerk of Eldin). Battles where fleets tried to keep the beautiful lines ended up with no results. Perhaps you are mixing up age of sail with ww1 battleship combat where keeping the line came back to importance.
 

[Iroquois Confederacy]

12 minutes ago, Valentine Karrde said:

Most maneuvering was done leading up to the gunfire exchange. And after, yes raking occurred but these tight turning arcade matches we have are not even close to reality. People buy this game expecting epic broadside duels and we get...this whatever this is. It's fun in its own way, but the cheese factor is up there.

[Eyesore]

No VM-conversion anymore?

Hmm, I still will not like the portbattles ... or try to arrange my real life to be able to attend one ...

The winning nation or clan can replace their big ships, can thus easily grind some more pve-income and overpower the losing side even more. The losing nation gets stuck in inferior ships ... The imbalance just becomes even bigger?

The losing side can't put up a winnable team/fight ... why would they even bother to defend more ports, when they have no chance to win, and/or lose even more (unreplacable) ships? So, more empty battles for the dominating nations/clans, easy mapwin ... that will keep people interested?

The plus-side is offcourse that we are almost being forced to have an alt. More income development?

Perhaps it would be more opportune to find a way to make PB more attractive before you impliment more restrictions on how we can fight them?

[pompeyck]

i feel that the combat/victory mark conversion to labour contract removal is the devs way of getting more alt acct into the game so players have to farm hours across multi acct instead of earning the combat marks and spending them on labour contracts in there main account.

[Valentine Karrde]

14 minutes ago, admin said:

epic broadside duels is not Age of Sail. epic broadside duels were discredited by Sir John the Clerk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Clerk_of_Eldin

Majority of references show ships fully or partially demasted during battle and beautiful lines led to nothing (which was proven by Sir John the Clerk of Eldin)
 

You may want to check your sources. Wikipedia is not a trusted source or even acceptible reference material. Check out the constitution vs java or guerriere... that's more accurate than your games portrayal. 

My point stands though, if you leave the cheesy demasting and turn wars, you won't have a populated game. Most people don't go for mechanics that leave you crippled In The first minute of combat. I've been playing since you first started this endeavor and it's getting tiresome for me and I like a lot of aspects of this game. But fun factor is going out the window.

i have dozens of irl friends who are gamers. I have invite them over to show them the game. I'll get into a pvp fight and demast someone straight off because I like to win. The response is always the same. They kinda give me a sidewise glance and never ever buy the game. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Valentine Karrde

[Baron De Bourbon]

admin, I am still waiting for your reply.

[Valentine Karrde]

5 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

Thanks, it's pretty clear that they didn't turn in little circles the entire battle, and that's the point I was trying to make. Gunfire was exchanged broadside to broadside this entire fight. Save at the end when the Connie demasted java.

[Jesters-Ink]

No conversions for labour hour contracts, bad move.

[vazco]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Its not a bad thing at all. Its a forum - forum (vague translation) a place for opinions. Disagreeing does not mean ignoring. We disagree with your opinion but we never ignored it. We tried Victory marks for everyone and they did not achieve what we want.

You're not really listening to people. You're allowing them to speak, however you don't calm their very specific doubts about a new system. You're not adressing those doubts, you're just saying that you'll go with a new system anyway.

Main doubts that I can read are:

• snowball effect - strong nations will remain strong, as noone else will have big ships
• no option for small nations whatsoever to get access to 1st rates and thus large part of the content (unless you tell me that eg. Prussia or Commonwealth can dominate Sweden)
• decreased PvP due to harder access to ships
• no conversion of Combat Marks to Labour Contracts makes crafting ships and supporting clan economy harder

Edited December 21, 2017 by vazco

[admin]

21 minutes ago, Valentine Karrde said:

You may want to check your sources. Wikipedia is not a trusted source or even acceptible reference material. Check out the constitution vs java or guerriere... that's more accurate than your games portrayal. 

We have one of the largest private collections of the age of sail books and prints in the world. Perhaps you did not who sir john the clerk was - wiki was the fastest and simplest way to share it with you. Age of sail was not about broadside to broadside combat and sir john the clerk even proven it in his essays on naval tactics. You can replicate it in naval action too. You can try to have line combat but pure line combat allows easy escape and indecisive results (Battle of ushant, glorious first of june); decisive victories come from maneuver, disablement and general melee allowing to rely on individual skill and not station keeping.

[admin]

1 minute ago, vazco said:

 

• no option for small nations whatsoever to get access to 1st rates and thus large part of the content (unless you tell me that eg. Prussia or Commonwealth can dominate Sweden)

Why did you omit Russia from the list. They started from the same empty clean sheet as prussia or commonwealth.

[pompeyck]

8 ships are uncraftable now for majority of players , seems a strange decision to me.

wapen van hamburg , niagara , ingermanland , l ocean , santisima , heavy rattlesnake , prince and victory all victory mark for permits.

[vazco]

1 minute ago, admin said:

Why did you omit Russia from the list. They started from the same empty clean sheet as prussia or commonwealth.

That's why I didn't mention them. They have much more active players, especially those coming from Global. They're not in trouble with this new patch. Only about 4 other nations are.

Again, you're not adressing main doubts of people, you just engage in a word fight...

[vazco]

Oh, I counted. In reality only 4 nations have some chance to compete for first 3 places. Then you're only wrecking 8 other nations and their players.

If you introduced this system 2 months ago btw, Russia also wouldn't have any chance to compete with any other large nation.

[admin]

Just now, vazco said:

That's why I didn't mention them. They have much more active players, especially those coming from Global. They're not in trouble with this new patch. Only about 4 other nations are.

Again, you're not adressing main doubts of people, you just engage in a word fight...

if asking questions is a word fight for you we don't know how conversation is possible. But we will try again.

If Russia attracted players why did not prussia? Is it national leaders responsibility? or a game responsibility? Why Rovers and LIONS left prussia? @z4ys @Sella22?
Why russia gained players ?
@Anolytic thoughts?

[Valentine Karrde]

13 minutes ago, admin said:

We have one of the largest private collections of the age of sail books and prints in the world. Perhaps you did not who sir john the clerk was - wiki was the fastest and simplest way to share it with you. Age of sail was not about broadside to broadside combat and sir john the clerk even proven it in his essays on naval tactics. You can replicate it in naval action too. You can try to have line combat but pure line combat allows easy escape and indecisive results (Battle of ushant, glorious first of june); decisive victories come from maneuver, disablement and general melee allowing to rely on individual skill and not station keeping.

I know who he is, thanks. There are also dozens of admirals and tacticians who disagreed with him. Basing your game off of one mans theories, is fallacy. Again you have to balance your view of reality with fun. Your game is not very much fun anymore. That's why you keep losing players in droves.

every day I see someone quit the game over demasting. They ask what they can do to prevent it. I have to tell them there is no good defense. Anything you can try will merely buy you seconds. Put a french rig on that allows you an extra hit. Put all the sail defense mods on, you get two more. Repair immediately, that gives you an extra broadside. Your still going to be demasted in the first 5 minutes and there's nothing that your going to do to prevent it. These people sign off and never return.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Valentine Karrde

[Valentine Karrde]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

if asking questions is a word fight for you we don't know how conversation is possible. But we will try again.

If Russia attracted players why did not prussia? Is it national leaders responsibility? or a game responsibility? Why Rovers and LIONS left prussia? @z4ys @Sella22?
Why russia gained players ?
@Anolytic thoughts?

People go to the side that appears to be the strongest. Right now that's Russia. People are sheep. Only a few wolves will pick the losing side to have plenty of sheep to slaughter.

[Christoph]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

if asking questions is a word fight for you we don't know how conversation is possible. But we will try again.

If Russia attracted players why did not prussia? Is it national leaders responsibility? or a game responsibility? Why Rovers and LIONS left prussia? @z4ys @Sella22?
Why russia gained players ?
@Anolytic thoughts?

The best is when you get 1 victory mark for the win of the pb. then we have more rvr.