Patch 14: Part 2 experimental patch increasing realism in ship behavior

[vazco]

3 hours ago, DustyA said:

Costs of PVP rewards:
Wasa Note  - 30 PM
Surprise Note -15 PM
PFrigate Note - 15 PM
L'Hermion Note - 15 PM
LGV Refit Note - 25 PM
Constitution Note - 25PM
Bellona Note - 30 PM
Navy Structure Refit - 10 PM
Navy Orlop Refit - 10 PM
Navy Mast Treatment Note - 10 PM
Navy Mast Band Note - 10 PM
Navy Hull Refit - 10 PM
Navy Gun Tackles - 10 PM

Marks and blueprint :
Victory Marks - 50 PM

That's much better. If costs were like this for all nations, I would be for trying it and seeing what happens. 

It's still an issue though that players of winning nation is showered with 150-worth of PvP marks every week. This is still creating an imbalance. If Vic would be craftable without VM's as well, I would be ok with such a system in terms of RvR balance.

 

I think it's a better system to give rewards to active nations, not top nations. This would altogether promote RvR (what you want to archieve), in the same time giving good incentives for players of all nations to actively participate in politics. It could also give players incentives to move to small nations, to reach new goals and get new rewards. Large nations could be toppled without loosing their players.

You could just base rewards on a change of nation's status within 1-4 weeks. This way every nation and every player will have a drive to participate in RvR, not just those nations that have a chance to be in top 3. It will create a more diverse conflict everywhere. I wrote about an example of such system below:

 

With the current system I fear that people will just try to cheat the system, not follow it. It can be cheated in many ways. It's better to create a system which will make people think how to win, rather than how to cheat. For a system to work this way, it has to give everyone a chance. Winning should be easier than cheating.

ps. 3 VM's per week altogether is a huge reward. A nation should get 1 per week max. 50 PvP marks is a sum that an average player will get by fighting in PvP for 40 hours (including searching for PvP).

 

Edited December 26, 2017 by vazco

[vazco]

...or simply give a winning nations 30/20/10 labour contracts per week...

[Peiper]

How about this, Devs?  What about people who work for a living, and only come on for a half hour, an hour.  How do they get into port battles?  How long do they have to sail to find the right PVP battle?  You're blocking content from people who have jobs.  I just spent an 45 minutes sailing to a port battle, and a 1/2 hour sailing WITHIN the battle.  (Yeah, I was late.)  I earned ONE PvP mark for my two hours (cuz I had to get home after) of work.  That's horsecrap.  Some guys were happy with 5 marks.  Like starving people waiting for food to be thrown out of the back of a restaurant.  I would not spend 2 hours to get 5 PVP marks.  I don't normally play for more than an hour at a time.  I can grind out combat marks okay, and I rather enjoy fighting the AI.  I have time to do that.  A mission or two a night.  

So....  2 hours for even 5 PVP marks, in a high stress/low fun situation.  I did NOT enjoy myself despite being with good people and a good caller.  I'm just not a PVP guy.  But I'll trade say 200 marks for a victory mark.  That seems steep to me, but if I sail conservatively in my big ships doing missions, they'll last a long time and I won't have to replace them often.  But I just don't have the time to play like other people.  And I don't enjoy PVP.  But every day I craft ships for my guild, move some resources here or there.  Sure, my guild is generous to me, but come on.   I should be able to earn stuff without begging from friends who have spent HOURS earning what I simply don't have time to do, nor does that part of the game appeal to me.

We are all here for different reasons.  Please don't punish me because I'm not like you.  Get rid of the walls between myself and the ships I want to try out.

[CaptainCaveMan]

 ADMIN - But we will focus on things that we want: Making rvr and pvp matter more or improving the sailing model or adding new ships. 

Understand the reasoning as part of the development, however alienating what population you currently have may not be the approach that you might be looking for.  Understand the effect negative social media can have on a product/service once it has been focused to a single activity.  Is there no way to in which development cannot approach a number of different things at the same time?  There has not been a significant influx of new players over the past year...so your projected gains may not be as expected upon final release.

 

[maturin]

7 hours ago, DustyA said:

Can we expect front chasers on St Pavel and Bucentaure too? Or will this ship's new front chasers be balanced out by something else? 

It's balanced by the fact that three-decker second rates were the slowest ships afloat.

St. Pavel and Bucentaure were the fastest type of SoL, generally speaking.

 

Edit: Wait, Christian VII is huge. Longer than Victory if Three Decks is correct, with a 2nd Rate armament.

[Landsman]

4 hours ago, Sella22 said:

Whats the logic of bringing Wasa back down to 30 PvP marks

Well OP Wasa for 30 PvP marks is still better than OP Wasa for 75+ PvP marks... at least everyone can have it this way and not only PvP top dogs or those who hoarded endless Wasa notes before the patch ( I know a dude who has 36 Wasa notes left, so yeah seems kinda BS to make it super expensive without wiping all existing notes and ships ). But yeah it really does need a nerf...

[staun]

I would like to understand how this change is getting more RvR and PvP. Would be nice if the developers would explain there reason. Maybe the think with 2000 players it will be good. And they expect that numbers when released. 

To win a war you have to have the best strategy, players and resources. Good strategy and getting good players is basic the samen for all nations. Yes big real life nations have an advantage. But that just hard to do anything about. But how should a nation keep up building 1 rates, when some nations get five Vm a week. They already most likely have a bigger player base. Do the math.  It means they can take a 5-1 lose of big ships, and stil meet you on a level term. In my best opinion it will have the cost that no nation outside top 3 can do a long fight. And they will for sure not could do many pb with a br about 9000. 

For the first time I actually are thinking about arranged fights. Lets say we meet another smaller nation in a fight. We both come with same ships and numbers. And only ships that dont cost VM. Hell we might even do that for a couple of pb for port, that is unimportant for both nation.

Well devs got what they want. More PvP and RvR. But I think it is a way to compensate for a failed mechanic. Like all the alts ppl have.(but that is another topic). Is that *the game they want? I hope not.

Edited December 26, 2017 by staun

[Hethwill]

VMs is a complicated issue.

The fair option is to keep the 3 places for nation, okay fair enough, but award VM after cycle to the captains that did sink/assist sinking of enemy player ships in the PBs.

So, there must be a PB, and there must be a sinking for one or more captains of a nation that achieves 1st, 2nd or 3rd place to be elligible for the VM.

Others can keep on OW pvp and exchange as normal.

[Kubrat]

21 minutes ago, staun said:

I would like to understand how this change is getting more RvR and PvP. Would be nice if the developers would explain there reason. Maybe the think with 2000 players it will be good. And they expect that numbers when released. 

To win a war you have to have the best strategy, players and resources. Good strategy and getting good players is basic the samen for all nations. Yes big real life nations have an advantage. But that just hard to do anything about. But how should a nation keep up building 1 rates, when some nations get five Vm a week. They already most likely have a bigger player base. Do the math.  It means they can take a 5-1 lose of big ships, and stil meet you on a level term. In my best opinion it will have the cost that no nation outside top 3 can do a long fight. And they will for sure not could do many pb with a br about 9000. 

For the first time I actually are thinking about arranged fights. Lets say we meet another smaller nation in a fight. We both come with same ships and numbers. And only ships that dont cost VM. Hell we might even do that for a couple of pb for port, that is unimportant for both nation.

Well devs got what they want. More PvP and RvR. But I think it is a way to compensate for a failed mechanic. Like all the alts ppl have.(but that is another topic). Is that *the game they want? I hope not.

If you read this forum post from start to finish you will find that all of your questions have already been answered.  You may not like the answers, but they are there. 

For example, and this is just one example, Shallow water ports are an even playing field and everyone can get a heavy rattle - check admiralty store this morning.

 

 

[Klava Pupkina]

8 hours ago, admin said:

Обновление было развернуто сегодня - 26 декабря

• Убраны требования к отметке победы в проекте и разрешений на приобретение всех судов, за исключением первых ставок
• Снижение цен на PvP-контент в pvp-марках, потому что ранее обслуживались ведущими игроками пвп, но не средними игроками (теперь это должно быть лучше)
• Исправлена ошибка, из-за которой время от времени зависала перезагрузка бота
• Увеличенное охлаждение и время для восстановления экипажа на хирурге - хирург работал слишком быстро и слишком часто во время битв, и его нужно было нервничать.

Подготавливаются окончательные изменения для физики корабля, включая свободу и адаптацию всех легких кораблей. 
Новогодние подарки будут распространяться с предстоящим патчем (часть 3 улучшений модели плавания)

ЭТО САМЫЙ КОНЧЕННЫЙ ПАТЧ ЗА ПОСЛЕДННЕ ВРЕМЯ. тЕПЕРЬ ОПЯТЬ СТИДЕНИЕ НА КОРМЕ РУЛИТ. И ВСЯ МЕХАНИКА КОТОРУЮ ВВОДИЛИ АНУЛИРУЕТСЯ ТЕМ ЧТО РОМ ОТКАТ С 20 МИНУТАМИ. 

[Captain corn blower]

8 hours ago, admin said:

Here is what happened Captains
Player makes up a false assumption, gets irritated with his false assumption, start spreading it as being true, turning himself into a hater (with no actual reasons). This happens a lot on the internetz. We learnt to ignore this.  

You are incorrect and should avoid making statements that have no factual proof. 
We can easily disprove it by just showing our work. We of course understand that maybe you want something else. But we will focus on things that we want: Making rvr and pvp matter more or improving the sailing model or adding new ships. 

Like this Danish beauty

Ok were is the ship ? Its not about being a complainer we need more ship and things to do with them more thing to attck and escort I play on the PVE server and on the PVP server and every body is bord with the same old thing .why can't we attack ports bombard the towns for points and and sending AI fleet comes out and defends .I can go on and  on with thing to do in this game but nothing gets added that is what we won't to see being added to the game constantly . growing the game. 

[staun]

34 minutes ago, Kubrat said:

If you read this forum post from start to finish you will find that all of your questions have already been answered.  You may not like the answers, but they are there. 

For example, and this is just one example, Shallow water ports are an even playing field and everyone can get a heavy rattle - check admiralty store this morning.

 

 

I have read them. And no I dont think they have answers. Yes you can do pb with small br. So yes you can find pb to join.  But look at the map and tell me where a small nation can have lets say 6 port with low br(and for now small nations can't field big BR), so they have covered all there basic need, without have them spread all over the map. Yes I know ppl can just sail from one end to the other of the map. They told us what they have done. not what there thinking is. To me  it looks like they try to kill of all small nations. One of the ways small nations compensate for less players, is using bigger ships. well they have been loot harder to come by and replace if lost.

Edit:

For each thing there is a way to compensate for it. But when you put in to a hole strategy. And a nation that wants to be in RvR need a hole strategy. Well then I just can't make the ends meet.  So I stop doing RvR most likely and hope that there will be a small spot left for my nation. You are right I dont think this was a good change. But as the rest I will adapt an play ore stop playing. But if there plan was to get all nations in to RvR and PvP. I think they have failed. There will 3-4 big nations fighting. The rest well, they will be somewhere on the map. Is that good for the game. I dont think so. 

All I am trying, is to understand what they think this patch will give the game. By god it simply eludes me-

Edited December 26, 2017 by staun

[OneEyedSnake]

9 hours ago, admin said:

Here is what happened Captains
Player makes up a false assumption, gets irritated with his false assumption, start spreading it as being true, turning himself into a hater (with no actual reasons). This happens a lot on the internetz. We learnt to ignore this.  

You are incorrect and should avoid making statements that have no factual proof. 
We can easily disprove it by just showing our work. We of course understand that maybe you want something else. But we will focus on things that we want: Making rvr and pvp matter more or improving the sailing model or adding new ships. 

Like this Danish beauty

and what of the voted on ships. are you aware the dutch still have no ships despite being an actual contender in this time period? 

 

[OneEyedSnake]

3 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

The poll ended only a few weeks ago. You cant expect to make a ship so soon.

Christian VII, the ship in the pic, was voted in the the 2016 poll.

im talking since this game came out. why are all these ships no one asked for, that are very specifically not dutch, when they offer a great 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rate lineup, being added into the game? 

[Jesters-Ink]

12 hours ago, admin said:

Update has been deployed today - 26th December

• Removed victory mark requirements in blueprint and permit acquisitions for all ships except for first rates
• Reduced prices for PvP content in pvp marks because previously the catered to top pvp players but not the average players (it should be better now)
• Fixed an important bug with bot reload getting stuck from time to time
• Increased cool down and time to recover crew on the surgeon - surgeon was working too fast and too often during battles and it had to be nerfed.

Final changes for ship physics including leeway and adaptation of all light ships is being prepared. 
New year gifts will be distributed with the forthcoming patch (part 3 of sailing model improvements)

Much better overall, but if you keep pushing this only pvp/rvr you are cutting at least 75% of your player base out.

Answer me this, why not cater for all, it doesn't have to cost you your soul, just give everyone a little bit of something?

Lets just simply it:- traders like trading, PvPers can hunt them and do, remove them and there is less PvP.

Make ships more accessible and more players use them, more PvP. This also helps port battles for RvR.

Give something to all and all will play. Restrict it for the top 5% and you'll have 180 players by June.

Not hating, just expressing some common sense.

[Rigge1988]

It's a sandbox game.

A sandbox without any tools and upon entering your hands are tied to your back. Our main objective right now is to push eachothers out of it.

And law and behold. Soon enough we might even have the frame looking better and we might even be taught how to push eachother.

The tools will come later on.

I hope.

[admin]

6 hours ago, Rigge1988 said:

It's a sandbox game.

A sandbox without any tools and upon entering your hands are tied to your back. Our main objective right now is to push eachothers out of it.

And law and behold. Soon enough we might even have the frame looking better and we might even be taught how to push eachother.

The tools will come later on.

I hope.

We believe that victory marks won't be expensive and situation will actually remain the same as before, despite changing victory marks to pvp marks.
There will be no pushing out and ports will be the same due to still large supply of VMs. The change of combat marks to pvp marks for VMs will soon be accepted as the new normal.

[Jesters-Ink]

1 minute ago, admin said:

We believe that victory marks won't be expensive and situation will actually remain the same as before, despite changing victory marks to pvp marks.
There will be no pushing out and ports will be the same due to still large supply of VMs. The change of combat marks to pvp marks for VMs will soon be accepted as the new normal.

I remember the 1 dura argument, "we will put this to bed once and for all", the players were right.

[Peiper]

Good freakin' Lord.  Two things happened tonight.  Both of which the devs have created, that really sucks.  

1.  As I was sailing up the coast bringing my Wasa's back to Charleston to mothball until they make them available to people like me again, I heard complaints about a privateer ganking new players.  So, new players are being farmed by people who can throw away their privateers for PVP marks because privateers are cheap and PVP marks are hyper-inflated valuable?  That's just freakin' wonderful.  Privateers are so cheap, you can sail them to a newbe zone, kill them, and when you're done, suicide 0 because it's easier than sailing home and you already got your marks.  I thought that stuff was solved a year ago.  

2.  Sailing my two Wasa's home for safekeeping, I spy an NPC fleet of 2 frigates and an essex.  I'm on a search for rare books so I look at the everpresent clock to see if I'll have time for a fight tonight, and enter into the fight.  My fleet wasa is sent to destroy the lead frigate, which breaks off downwind, so I go to help my other boat kill it.  Except my other boat sails into the middle of the other two ships and turns itself into irons.  I move to help it, and set it to kill a ship nearer to it.  It fails in that too, and gets pretty battered.  So I send it to retreat.  I could take these three on my own if I have to.  But, it then sails through the enemy again on an escape trajectory (of course, not bothering to shoot back because it's retreating) and the enemy paces it and sinks it.  So now, tell me, devs.  How does a guy like me - who is used to crafting my own ships for the past couple years - able to rebuild my lost Wasa?  I am not on during prime time, so I can't do port battles.  I also hate PVP anyway.  And I only play for an hour at a time.  I don't have time to go sailing around looking for other players even if I wanted to.  So, how do I replace my Wasa?  This was my favorite combo.  Two Wasas.  I use them to hunt rare books, explore shipwrecks, and do my minimal trading.  It's my pleasure.  This is how I play the game, this is what I do.

 

YOU TOOK THAT AWAY FROM ME with this patch.  I will never get my 2 wasa combo back now, and I have never participated in ganking newbs.  I leave player traders alone.   I sailed two hours to get to a port battle today because I had extra time and earned ONE pvp mark.  HOW DOES A GUY LIKE ME GET BACK WHAT I'VE LOST?

 

You've taken the life out of the game for me.  Now I'll hide my Wasa and Santi in the hanger.  My two favorite boats.  Languishing because I'm afraid to take them out because I can't replace them given my playtime.  And so, for lack of playing, my guild will suffer, because they won't have me farming mats for them and building parts and cannons and ships.  You guys have been working on this game for years.  It doesn't feel different today than before the big wipe, only at least then I could replace my ships.  Please stop forcing me to play the game you want me to play it.  I have built up two rear admirals.  I used to put out a Santisima a day for about a month straight back in the day.  I ran a successful guild.  I know what I'm talking about.  Now, my life has changed.  I still enjoy sailing, but you're making it difficult for me to enjoy what I've earned twice over and can no longer do.  Rethink things before you drive away the casual players, traders, crafters, and new players.  Don't wait for statistics to show you whether you or me is correct.  Simply do the right thing for everyone.  

[NethrosDefectus]

54 minutes ago, Peiper said:

Good freakin' Lord.  Two things happened tonight.  Both of which the devs have created, that really sucks.  

1.  As I was sailing up the coast bringing my Wasa's back to Charleston to mothball until they make them available to people like me again, I heard complaints about a privateer ganking new players.  So, new players are being farmed by people who can throw away their privateers for PVP marks because privateers are cheap and PVP marks are hyper-inflated valuable?  That's just freakin' wonderful.  Privateers are so cheap, you can sail them to a newbe zone, kill them, and when you're done, suicide 0 because it's easier than sailing home and you already got your marks.  I thought that stuff was solved a year ago.  

2.  Sailing my two Wasa's home for safekeeping, I spy an NPC fleet of 2 frigates and an essex.  I'm on a search for rare books so I look at the everpresent clock to see if I'll have time for a fight tonight, and enter into the fight.  My fleet wasa is sent to destroy the lead frigate, which breaks off downwind, so I go to help my other boat kill it.  Except my other boat sails into the middle of the other two ships and turns itself into irons.  I move to help it, and set it to kill a ship nearer to it.  It fails in that too, and gets pretty battered.  So I send it to retreat.  I could take these three on my own if I have to.  But, it then sails through the enemy again on an escape trajectory (of course, not bothering to shoot back because it's retreating) and the enemy paces it and sinks it.  So now, tell me, devs.  How does a guy like me - who is used to crafting my own ships for the past couple years - able to rebuild my lost Wasa?  I am not on during prime time, so I can't do port battles.  I also hate PVP anyway.  And I only play for an hour at a time.  I don't have time to go sailing around looking for other players even if I wanted to.  So, how do I replace my Wasa?  This was my favorite combo.  Two Wasas.  I use them to hunt rare books, explore shipwrecks, and do my minimal trading.  It's my pleasure.  This is how I play the game, this is what I do.

 

YOU TOOK THAT AWAY FROM ME with this patch.  I will never get my 2 wasa combo back now, and I have never participated in ganking newbs.  I leave player traders alone.   I sailed two hours to get to a port battle today because I had extra time and earned ONE pvp mark.  HOW DOES A GUY LIKE ME GET BACK WHAT I'VE LOST?

 

You've taken the life out of the game for me.  Now I'll hide my Wasa and Santi in the hanger.  My two favorite boats.  Languishing because I'm afraid to take them out because I can't replace them given my playtime.  And so, for lack of playing, my guild will suffer, because they won't have me farming mats for them and building parts and cannons and ships.  You guys have been working on this game for years.  It doesn't feel different today than before the big wipe, only at least then I could replace my ships.  Please stop forcing me to play the game you want me to play it.  I have built up two rear admirals.  I used to put out a Santisima a day for about a month straight back in the day.  I ran a successful guild.  I know what I'm talking about.  Now, my life has changed.  I still enjoy sailing, but you're making it difficult for me to enjoy what I've earned twice over and can no longer do.  Rethink things before you drive away the casual players, traders, crafters, and new players.  Don't wait for statistics to show you whether you or me is correct.  Simply do the right thing for everyone.  

So your issue that that it's more difficult for you to take an extra overpowered free ship into battle with you?

Edited December 27, 2017 by NethrosDefectus

[PenguPirate]

11 minutes ago, NethrosDefectus said:

So your issue that that it's more difficult for you to take an extra overpowered free ship into battle with you?

His issue is he's a casual player, the changes that catered towards more ambitious/aggressive PvP'ers and leave casual PvP'ers or PvE/PvP hybrids in a position where they might not get to enjoy the game as they used to(Possibly PvE'ing in the wasa). For a game they paid money for it can be annoying. His grief is more towards that unless he starts putting in time that he can't afford he won't be able to even enjoy the casual aspects of the game. Oh and, please ask @admin to balance the wasa if you think it's OP.

 

Inb4 "go play on PvE"

Edited December 27, 2017 by PenguPirate
Add inb4

[Palatinose]

@Peiper if i understood that correctly, one can now convert pve to pvp marks and therefore achieve a wasa without doing any pvp?

Furthermore my advice would be not to use AI fleet ships at all. It prevents u from focusing on ur own skills in combat. But thats just my opinion.

[Peiper]

1 minute ago, PenguPirate said:

His issue is he's a casual player, the changes that catered towards more ambitious/aggressive PvP'ers and leave casual PvP'ers or PvE/PvP hybrids in a position where they might not get to enjoy the game as they used to(Possibly PvE'ing in the wasa). For a game they paid money for it can be annoying. His grief is more towards that unless he starts putting in time that he can't afford he won't be able to even enjoy the casual aspects of the game. Oh and, please ask @admin to balance the wasa if you think it's OP.

I use the Wasa's for two reasons.  They are 550 crew.  I can crew two of them as a rear admiral.  Second, they are maneuverable enough that I can still pick up loot before the ships I'm hunting sink.  Overpowered ships are only overpowered if they are used to trash other players.  Otherwise, they are simply ships.  I also used 3 indefatigables for the same reasons.  The wasas can haul more, so it's easier to pick up big loot if I go after a big trader.  If there was a better ship, I'd use that.  The Wasa is ugly.  The prettiest ship is the Trincomelee.  I enjoy sailing it and it remains my favorite ship, but it's not as tough as the fatties, unfortunately, and as I pointed out.  I'm a casual player with limited time and must maximize my time to achieve my goals, meaning I suck up the fact I'm taking out ugly ships because I get the results I want.  I'm sure PVPers, for the most part, think the same way in that respect.  Does it get the job done?  That's the ship I want.  But as NethrosDefectus said, if the Wasa is overpowered, then nerf it.  However, the realism is more important to me.  If the Wasa sailed the way it does, then make it sail that way.  If that makes it more valuable, so be it.  It IS a great ship and worth fighting/grinding for.  My beef is that I no longer have that option, as PenguPirate illustrates (thank you).  The current patch removes my options.  

In Mechwarrior Online - where I spend a lot of my time - they have battlemechs/robots-we-pilot vs each other - you can buy with in-game currency.  There are some premium mechs too, which you can pay real money for, but they are not BETTER than the mechs you can buy with earned currency.  They're painted up differently, have slightly different weapon layouts, and have some bonuses that help you earn experience and in game currency faster.  That way, if a mech IS overpowered (usually simply slightly above the curve), everyone can get one.   But if they want one with an experience and cash-earning booster, they pay real money - pay to progress, rather than pay-to-win, and colors, decals, cosmetic stuff is real money too.  Much of it can also be earned in game, but it takes a lot longer and requires a lot of grinding.

 Perhaps that is the route Naval Action should go for PVP rewards.  PVP players play hard and necessarily spend extra hours in the game.  Perhaps if what they earned was something special, without being overpowered, that would be a better route to go than putting content behind a wall.  How about PVP only earned paint jobs?  What about slightly different looking designs with the same stats as other ships (more/less decoration, a hermione that doesn't look like a clown shoe or a 3rd rate with stripes?)  Maybe slightly different cannon layouts, without changing the cannon counts.  Decorated sails.  There's lots of things that could be added to the game to earn.  And put stuff in for us non-pvper's too.  Stuff we can find in shipwrecks, stuff we can craft with exotic goods, exploration missions where we find colors (other than colors PVP players earn) to paint our ships.  

There you go, Devs.  There's a solution.  And hell, if you want to sell premium ships with xp/gold earning boosters, that's cool too.  They don't overpower anyone, simply help people level up and get rich quicker.  

 

[Peiper]

5 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

@Peiper if i understood that correctly, one can now convert pve to pvp marks and therefore achieve a wasa without doing any pvp?

Furthermore my advice would be not to use AI fleet ships at all. It prevents u from focusing on ur own skills in combat. But thats just my opinion.

Not unless they slipped it in the the last 24 hours.

As far as getting good, I don't feel the need to prove myself to anyone.  I've done it all, and I'm not a leaderboard climber.  I'm a casual player.  If I lose a fleet ship, okay.  I can live with it.  But if I can't REPLACE it, that's a problem.  I've lost ships, like many of us have, and been down to basic cutters before and climbed my way back up.  But now, I can't climb as high as I've already been, and that takes away my incentive to keep playing. 

And really, if you've played with fleets, they don't lessen your skills in combat.  Really?  lol.  I mean, how often do you have to bust your hump to RESCUE your fleet ships because they did something stupid.  75% of the time, they help.  25% of the time they screw everything up.  For example, today with my Wasas, I lost one, and had to take out three ships by myself, where I expected my fleet ship to do something to the frigates before it got itself sunk.  It's a heavy fourth rate, for Pete's sake!  

[Liq]

[fyi] on pvp server the link from combat marks to pvp marks is there, but it doesnt work