Patch 10.4 Conquest changes, Battle Groups, Wapen von Hamburg (III)

[Hethwill]

Where do you read logistics there ? Where are the trade lanes used to transport the goods ? With what transport ships ? Where are the sailing venues to and from the frontlines and outposts ? How many ships positioned ? Do they arrived at the destination unchecked ? How much weight on hold ?

I read only crafting comparisons, which is the least of the worries. Yes, quality of crafting is a plus. Same as zero cost throw away .

On a side note, I do not grind missions and all my ships are crafted from materials/resources captured from enemy.

Let's see where this goes anyway. I like the principle > entry level easy of access. I dislike the potential for ... future threads asking for removal. Seen it.

Overall very positive changes lately. Just some details fall short

[Maloco]

7 minutes ago, koltes said:

Why not make all AI ships 1 perma upgrade slots and totally random wood type frames and planking?

And that all boats in the game can appear at random to be able to fight with them, and enjoy the variety of all models that currently exist in the game. That AI uses all ships and not just a few models.

[Holm Hansen]

3 minutes ago, z4ys said:

On a PvE server you cant troll people

Agreed.

But on PVP you can also troll players with the cheapest ship from NPC shipmarket. Not a big difference, especially when you see, if you sink the ship, instead of capturing, you get near the same money, that a NPC-ship in this class cost. 

...ok, with no cannons

[Maloco]

It is a shame that PVE server players can not enjoy fighting all the ships available in the game for having decided that NPC do not sail on certain boats.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Maloco

[Vernon Merrill]

39 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Where do you read logistics there ? Where are the trade lanes used to transport the goods ? With what transport ships ? Where are the sailing venues to and from the frontlines and outposts ? How many ships positioned ? Do they arrived at the destination unchecked ? How much weight on hold ?

I read only crafting comparisons, which is the least of the worries. Yes, quality of crafting is a plus. Same as zero cost throw away .

On a side note, I do not grind missions and all my ships are crafted from materials/resources captured from enemy.

Let's see where this goes anyway. I like the principle > entry level easy of access. I dislike the potential for ... future threads asking for removal. Seen it.

Overall very positive changes lately. Just some details fall short

Grind.  Missions.  

 

I dont even even know what that means.  

[DeRuyter]

I think limited NPC ship capture is a good change for a new player or someone leveling up, playing solo, etc. Something I am currently doing on one server (did not redeem xp).

43 minutes ago, koltes said:

Why not make all AI ships 1 perma upgrade slots and totally random wood type frames and planking?

This would be a simple fix for the concerns everyone has posted so far. Still far better to cap a player ship or craft one with the wood and upgrades you want.

[Scout]

Common people look at the state of player base playing the game you need to be really stupid if you can't see that the player base left more or lesh and one of the reasons was when the removed the 3rd npc´s capture.

Do you remember how many players used to log in to have fun in the game back then sure we including me did not like the idea of throw a way ships but in the end what did that give us ??

So why not take a deep breath play the game for the fun of it after all if you can't have fun playing a game then YOU are playing the wrong game.

And again we are still testing this to make it better still way too many that forget that part.

[Vernon Merrill]

3 minutes ago, Scout said:

Common people look at the state of player base playing the game you need to be really stupid if you can't see that the player base left more or lesh and one of the reasons was when the removed the 3rd npc´s capture.

Do you remember how many players used to log in to have fun in the game back then sure we including me did not like the idea of throw a way ships but in the end what did that give us ??

So why not take a deep breath play the game for the fun of it after all if you can't have fun playing a game then YOU are playing the wrong game.

And again we are still testing this to make it better still way too many that forget that part.

This is a fair enough point...  the trick is finding a balance between your point and the needs of people who enjoy the econonomic/crafting side of things.  

[DrZoidberg]

Dear Developers!

Ur new hotfix was a right decision. Now ur sea can be full of Frigates, BellePauls, and other ships what u worked for a much. Congratulation for this.

Btw if u check my posts, i suggested this system 1 year before, and i told u that it fits best for ur game.

This is a great step to revive this beutiful game.

I have to say, that there are still big mistakes u stick to, what doesnt let the game shine, as it should.

Till u force people to sail over and over the same way without any action, the game is life stealer. I think if u want succes, u must let automatic rearrangement between outposts.

Ur conquest system seems to be crap imo. Ur problem is that u made too much nations, and if no rebalance, there will be always supressed nations (with player base loss). In this system players will go mainly to the strongest nation, what will make the game less playable and ejoyable. I think the problem can be solve only one way, if the victory can happen only if the victorious nation has to fight against each others. Plz read my next post, its just a copy of my old post. I m pretty sure, that my suggestions again best for ur game.

Best regards ..

[DrZoidberg]

Dear Developers!

Sorry if u read most of my post before, but i reworked some suggestions in it.

About ur new conquest system:

Ur new conqest system doesnt solve the supressed nation issue, as it has no really balance in it, just try to solve the problem with the reset. If a nation too strong, it can be stronger after every map round, and can supress still some low populated nations. Another problem, that nations will always hit same nations. French will always against swedish and dutch, british always against spanish and pirates. That means aswell that french and spanish always be a supressed nation, what will make player base leak in thiese nations, and nations arond spanish can easily win the map round with no action flips and PB-s.

I suggest a new conquest (ruler) system. The war/play on the map should go for the Ruler of the Caribean title. In my system between two nation there will be 3 type of reletaionship. One can rule the other, and they can be equals. For example British can rule spanish, spanish can rule british and they can be equals. If british wants to rule spanish, they have to attack one of thier ports and win the port battle. If they rule the spanish, they shouldnt be able to attack any more port, but OS battles will be still enabled. The British should be able to use the spanish resources (with smuggler flag they should be able to bid on thier resources). If the spanish attack back to a british port, and they win, they became equal (they both can attack again, and British smugglers can not bid  in spanish ports again), and if they win another PB (area) against british, they will rule  british (cannot attack them anymore, but can bid on resources). If a nation rule  all others (get one area form all others or lets say win 1 PB against all others, and not lose any), they become the ruler of the caribean, and they win the map. Then should be map and nation status reset (all equals), but every outposts, xp, ships and so one shouldnt be reseted in the starting areas. With this system there is one problem. There can be a situation, when nation(s) with small starting area (especially swedish, US) will have only the capitals at endgame. Solution is easy, when a nation rule  all others but one, the last attack should be on 1st rate port or on the last remaining (not ruled) nation capital. If the main ruler win, the map reset come! There should be some tricky situation, but its not that chaotic, as it seems. For example if swedish, british and spain equals, British attack Cartagena (spanish port) and win, they will rule  spanish. If swedish attack cartagena after that, and take it, they will rule  british, while british still rule  spanish. Another tricky situaton if only US not ruled by British and British  attack thier capital but before attack time they lose one port against another nation. In that case the capital attack should be canceled.  Its simple, isnt it?

If u do this system, u have to make new port battle timer system aswell. I think there should be only 1 PB in every 2 (3) hours. The first nation who reach 100% tension at any port should get the first PB (after 24 h or after 26 h, as u wish), next 100% tension port should get after 2 hour from the first PB start ( or more, like max PB time+5 min between  two PBs). If all PB time slot occupied on next day, rising tensions should be stay at 100% (no PB at 100%, and slow tension drop or deny  tension drop at all if they reach 100%) and the nation can grind the tension easily up to PB on the next day, and get the first PB time after that day.

This system has loads of advantages. Strong nations capable to win has to attack all other nations, and they wont be able to anihilate or supress others (they can get only one area from one nation). The wars between nations will go for 1-2 important area or lets say for winning PB-s, and not for getting play areas. It should work like a climbing ladder, win against (rule) 1 nation after 1.  In this system there are big chance that strong nations will deplete thier ship pool for the win, as they need to attack all others. Till the map reset (win) the national areas doesnt change much, so easy nation stay easy, hard nation stay hard even if they are ruler or underdog.  The system has the national balance in itselfs, as the strongest nation always against all others. This system doesnt bother the cross play, what i think u support nowdays, as smuggler on ruler side still can be attacked, so own a second character on the underdog side still has advantage.

If u do the conqest/ruler system, u have to let nations attack others far from home water, and help to defend or take back thier isolated ports. That wont work, if u dont let players to make outpost at least 1 freetown, with the capability to move there ships automatically (after sailing there for the outpost for sure) and switch to ship there. This can boost OS PVP very much, and if u let only 1 freetown outpost, main force of the nation will have the same freeport, while minor part can do solo trader hunting, smuggling with it.

I think u must let players lower thier gametime, and let them succes. The easiest way is to let the rearrangment movements automatically.

There are a lot of boring sailing time implemented, 99% no action in it. This sailing are mostly ship rearrangement between outpost and for hauling. This OS sailing get players from real action, what is bad for them and for the rest.  Let all type of ships move automatically between outposts without cargo with 1 day penalty. In outposts should be an option to send ships to other outpost. The ships should get "on the way mark", and should arrive in targeted outpost at server reset or after 24 h (to avoid get advantage by fast rearrangement). This can give more active players on sea (PVE, PVP, smuggling, cargo hauling, exploring for outpost and for trading missons) against non active players. Btw automatic movement should help players struggled with ships in contested port aswell (struggling with ur best ship in a contested port can make player leak again, and can weaken low populated nations). Top of that i think ships from contested ports should move to the closest outpost automatically without any player action/intervention, so players after holyday or long work or just  a short break shouldnt get themselfes without thier best ships. I think till u not make OS sail easier, ur player base will always go below critical mass, and ur map wont work again and again appart from that what else u patch. I have that opinion appart form that there are lots of whining against making OS sailing easier. Those whiners are without real life, and im sure they wont leave the game, but normal players will sooner or later if they have to sail hours for some or none action.

Btw u should boost OS PVP activity without raise ganking. Just make PVP zones at ports with 50% tension, where PVP rewards are 2-10X. Tension drop should be lower over 50%, and after 100% if there is no PB slot on next day it shouldnt be dropped at all. That should pull all PVP focused players there and withdraw them from ganking.

Appart from that system:

(U must defend new players appart from that which nation they choose. They do mainly PVE, so PVP and especially ganking is bad for them. Give an opportunity to players below "post captain" to flag themselfs with "Naval Student flag". If they sail under this flag with a warship, they and thier missions shouldnt be attacked in home waters (!), and they shouldnt attack enemy or join PVP battles either. After that rank i dont think anybody leave because of some ganks, and they should be able to defend themselfes.)  <------ this is not so important after ur patch with capturable NPC-s. The "lowbie" play became much affordable and playable.

I think nowdays u want solve the "suppressed nation", lowby player gank and another problems with the long OS sailing distances, but it seems to me doesnt work. U get player leak again and again, because OS PVP is supressed while HC players going for ganks instead of real fights.

I have other ideas, but they are not so important. In my system tow to port is useless, and i think it bad for trader hunting/trader running/trader fleet game.

Low populated nations should get some advantage, like lower conquest mark and combat mark prices of ships (Agamemnon 3-4 Conquest mark, Consti 50-60 Combat mark and so one...), and advertise it at player creation (low populated nation, advantage of endgame ship building prices by 10-20%). Top of that the 1 or 2 nation with lowest population should be able to change combat marks to conquest mark 20-50-100 to 1, as u wish). If the population growth, they shouldnt be able to do this anymore.

i think if there are more than 50 (30-100?) outpost at a Freeport, that should be PVP zone aswell till outpost number wont go down. That should help defensive moves aswell, as can activate PVP focused players of the defensive nation to attack ships around the attackers freeport.

After this i would be really appriciated if  sell players some ship paintings maybe specified ship XP books, or anything else what player can use and wants after or before release.  I would be happy if i can support ur game more. Btw sooner or later u must decide whats ur bussinnes model, u want to make this game life stealer and make a faster player base change, or make this game enjoyable and make a real best seller. if u want second sooner or later u have to think about what u can sell for money, If u make things well, u still can make a profitable game, i think. With fast player base recycle soon u wont get player base critical mass.

With the changes i supposed i think u can avoid all type of player pool leak, no supressed nations, no lowbie gank, much more OS PVP, new endgame content, real national balance, less boring OS sailing without action. when u see player base grothw, start find out a new bussiness model (let players support ur game via selling paintings or what u want - i want personally specific ship XP books to lower my PVE activity)

 

Best regards: ..

Edited July 28, 2017 by DrZoidberg

[Liq]

1 minute ago, Mrgoldstein said:

do you get combat marks for capturing the enemy?

you only get marks for sinking ships.

[Scout]

5 minutes ago, DrZoidberg said:

the game is life stealer

Sorry to be that guy but that's what games are for spending time having fun.

 

[admin]

2 hours ago, z4ys said:

The problem is that there is no point to use crafted ships anymore. AI ships are as good as every player made ship. So yeah I would use a free cornflakes AK47 when it is the same quality like the russian one.

Majority of pvp players do not use oak/crew space built vessels. And lose them often. Lose all ships and you have to grind from the basic cutter or maybe leave the game. 

Also crafters have to understand something. New players lose ships a lot more often. Its kind of tiring to get back to basic cutter again and again. 
Now replacements vessels are easier to get to earn funds for 4th rates and higher. If ship capture did not return, we doubt crafters would have ANY market at all pretty soon. 

So with ship capture the market actually getting bigger. More buyers.

Ship capture is not for the discussion and is going to get to release. NPC ship composition might change more.  

 

The crafting requirements and levels of course need to be addressed. We don't want players to craft ships nobody wants. 

 

[admin]

2 hours ago, Hodo said:

 

The capture system is great, I love it, I will use it to line my digi-wallet with the breakdown sale these captured ships.  Seeing as combat marks are easy enough to come by.  

Really @admin I thought you were going to try and go hardcore this patch.  I see it is about as hard as a marshmallow. 

 I think you don't even feel a rush when seeing a player enemy (or attacking him) any more. New players sometimes feel this rush when attacking NPCs. 

Don't forget that

• This game is supposedly fool loot (you lose everything on you on death)
• This game has no safe zones high-sec - you can be sank EVERYWHERE. 
• Not only that - a cherry on the top of the cake - your nation can be completely crushed. 

We don't believe it can get any more hardcore than that. Name me any MMO released within last 12 months that has harsher mechanics.
I doubt ship capture can significantly change the hardcore nature of the game

[Lonar]

7 minutes ago, admin said:

Majority of pvp players do not use oak/crew space built vessels. And lose them often. Lose all ships and you have to grind from the basic cutter. 

Also crafters have to understand something. New players lose ships a lot more often. Its kind of tiring to get back to basic cutter again and again. 
Now replacements vessels are easier to get to earn funds for 4th rates and higher. If ship capture did not return, we doubt crafters would have ANY market at all pretty soon.

Ship capture is not for the discussion and is going to get to release. NPC ship composition might change more.  

 

Yep most times i would consider crew space shit and iam not a pvp guy, but you can use it for some interesting boarding builds i guess, wich is it seems the new thing since most pvp encounters i had latly were some guy trying to rageboard me.

For the hardcore part some guys are only happy when one lucky cannonball in the ammo chamber blows up the ship then its hardcore enough

Edited July 28, 2017 by Lonar

[admin]

4 minutes ago, Lonar said:

Yep most times i would consider crew space shit and iam not a pvp guy, but you can use it for some interesting boarding builds i guess, wich is it seems the new thing since most pvp encounters i had latly were some guy trying to rageboard me.

Remember that their crew is completely unprotected when on boarding crew focus. Shoot grape into the upper part of the ship and he/she will lose a lot of crew. A lot of it

[admin]

2 hours ago, koltes said:

Why not make all AI ships 1 perma upgrade slots and totally random wood type frames and planking?

maybe something like that (but we don't want random wood type as this will make some ships too good)

[Maloco]

I just saw several agamemnon in fleet on the pve server .... thanks for including this ship for the npc

[Magnum]

1 hour ago, Scout said:

Sorry to be that guy but that's what games are for spending time having fun.

 

I used to have a LOT of fun playing this "game". This last patch and to some degree the one before has CRUSHED that for me - I take a two week break and come back to having all my Poussant's (Conquest Marks) stolen by the Dev's and given to "others" in the form of crap ass "Victory Marks" frack me ......

So long, I may give it another try after "release" if that ever happens.

Thanks Obama ......

Edited July 28, 2017 by Magnum

[Quineloe]

too bad capturing ships and selling them rewards significantly less money than outright sinking them, now that you've chosen to never reward capture with gold and exp.

 

Makes no sense, but alright.

 

2 hours ago, admin said:

Remember that their crew is completely unprotected when on boarding crew focus. Shoot grape into the upper part of the ship and he/she will lose a lot of crew. A lot of it

Now how to load grape into your top deck, because loading all decks with grape is just a huge commitment given on ships of the same height, short of some frivolous good luck with the waves and the wind, you're not gonna ever shoot a gun deck into the upper part of a ship with grape.

Is it planned for us to allow for different shot type for different decks at some point?

[Hodo]

2 hours ago, admin said:

 I think you don't even feel a rush when seeing a player enemy (or attacking him) any more. New players sometimes feel this rush when attacking NPCs. 

Don't forget that

• This game is supposedly fool loot (you lose everything on you on death)
• It is FULL loot, captains chests are protected loot.
• This game has no safe zones high-sec - you can be sank EVERYWHERE. 
• Not true, you have giant safe zones around capital cities.
• Not only that - a cherry on the top of the cake - your nation can be completely crushed. 
• Again not true, you can 1 region a nation but not crush them.

We don't believe it can get any more hardcore than that. Name me any MMO released within last 12 months that has harsher mechanics.
I doubt ship capture can significantly change the hardcore nature of the game

Ok.. Darkfall Online Rise of Argon, full loot open world PVP, released MAY 5 2017.

Life is Feudal : MMO - releases in the next 3-5 months, full loot MMO siege warfare no safe zones outside of the starter area.

I can keep going back in time and I list all of the games CURRENTLY on the market that offer full loot open world sandbox PVP.

-Wurm Online

-Mortal Online

-Eve Online

-Ultima Online (yes it is still out there and still active)

 

All 4 of those games offer just that.   

There are several others on the way or on deck as you could say.

 

[Hodo]

41 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

too bad capturing ships and selling them rewards significantly less money than outright sinking them, now that you've chosen to never reward capture with gold and exp.

 

Makes no sense, but alright.

 

Now how to load grape into your top deck, because loading all decks with grape is just a huge commitment given on ships of the same height, short of some frivolous good luck with the waves and the wind, you're not gonna ever shoot a gun deck into the upper part of a ship with grape.

Is it planned for us to allow for different shot type for different decks at some point?

You can do that now.. it takes a bit of "trickery" but you can.

Load carronades on the weather deck, and cannons on all other decks.   Load grape first, when your carronades load, switch to double ball or double charge.   Carros will stay on grape.   

[Quineloe]

alright LGV sell for 34k but only give 17k when sunk

[John Cavanaugh]

1 minute ago, Quineloe said:

alright LGV sell for 34k but only give 17k when sunk

you sacrifice xp, ship xp, and combat marks. i'd rather sink and take my marks and ship xp

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 hours ago, admin said:

 I think you don't even feel a rush when seeing a player enemy (or attacking him) any more. New players sometimes feel this rush when attacking NPCs. 

Don't forget that

• This game is supposedly fool loot (you lose everything on you on death)
• This game has no safe zones high-sec - you can be sank EVERYWHERE. 
• Not only that - a cherry on the top of the cake - your nation can be completely crushed. 

We don't believe it can get any more hardcore than that. Name me any MMO released within last 12 months that has harsher mechanics.
I doubt ship capture can significantly change the hardcore nature of the game

I think I"m going have to steal this for a few other post where folks think the PvP server is a PvE server and that this game is not called NAVAL ACTION.

3 hours ago, admin said:

Remember that their crew is completely unprotected when on boarding crew focus. Shoot grape into the upper part of the ship and he/she will lose a lot of crew. A lot of it

When we see a larger than base crew we keep our distance and sink the guy, but folks have to remember too that if you have crew space or hammocks they have a moral penalty....you just need to kill there crew and beat them moral wise.

3 hours ago, admin said:

maybe something like that (but we don't want random wood type as this will make some ships too good)

I say just keep all AI to the Oak /Crew Space built so they are cheap ships that you wouldn't want to use other than for a replacement when you have nothing else or to capture and use until you level up out of the ship.

3 hours ago, Maloco said:

I just saw several agamemnon in fleet on the pve server .... thanks for including this ship for the npc

It seems ya'll made some fleets bigger and hopefully in enemy waters for grinding there are more ships too.  We been having a hard time flipping regions in a decent time cause of lack of enemy ships/fleets in the regions.

2 hours ago, Mrgoldstein said:

can we atleast get a different colour for crafted ships? make ai captured ships grey in shop? or crafted ones yellow?  its hard to recognize one and another now..

@admin

 

Crafted ships should stay blue....than make any AI captured or store bought NPC crafted ship grey.  Than you can quickly tell which ship is which. I would also say that capture ships from AI can't be sold on the market to flood it with junk cheap ships to compete with the crafters.  You either keep it for your self or break it up.