Hotfix 4 for patch 10.00

[Ned Low]

You just made pvp even more dead. NPC prices are too high. Instead you could add a tag to them and lower their specs compared to Crafter build ones and keep the price down.  

Those guys who were about to get a ship must grind for $$$ x2 longer now. This Grinding BS is becoming ridiculous. 

Clans will be building ships inside clans and those not in clans must grind non stop. Welcome to Naval Grind. 

Add rewards, for example junk loot (Content) that can be exchanged for gold and other items. Anything that can boost gold income is welcome. 

Edited June 1, 2017 by Ned Low

[JCDC]

Making losing ships very expensive is a good way of limiting the higher economy, the clans, the rear admirals. they will not be put off, I know, we have 30 active players every night in my clan and we are doing ok, we can afford ships and cannons but we are not drowning in money. the balance is good.

However, we use belle poules, Indys, frigates etc. that new players don't use.

Applying the same tough economy to the lower levels is just going to put people off. Pickles and Brigs and Mercuries and Surprises should be freely available and cheap and the 6lb guns should be cheap too. that way, the lower and casual players can get into the game and learn how to make money, without being put off.

 

This is not a carebear thing, its just sensible for maintaining the player base. It wont cause a surge in the economy or ruin port battles because the clans are never going to use mercuries for deep water port battles or big fleet actions. it wont enrich them. all it will do it allow new players a first step on the ladder so that they can learn the game and not lose a days efforts in one battle.

Edited June 1, 2017 by JCDC

[Koltes]

10 minutes ago, admin said:

copy paste mistake...

Sorry I dont get it. I have posted a screen shot. Am I missing something?

[admin]

4 minutes ago, shaeberle84 said:

Labour hours are ONE limit.

You just cannot craft eveything you want yourself on a sustainable level, say doing pvp and losing one 5th rate everyday.

Therefore, you need to buy stuff from NPCs, be it cannons, repairs or ships.

And for that you need gold, which you need to get by OUTSIDE of crafting (since you mainly craft for yourself, note: of yourse you pool together with friends to craft ships etc.).

lets experiment then.. increase lh by 30%
who is against? please respond here and explain why

[admin]

1 minute ago, koltes said:

Sorry I dont get it. I have posted a screen shot. Am I missing something?

we copy pasted it from somewhere else   

[JCDC]

I would say that labour hours are a limit to solo players, but, in clans its not a problem.

so, just increasing labour hours will make the clan economy too strong. Its not the right solution. it is supposed to be hard for people to build ships solo.

Of course, a player losing 1 5th rate a day is losing more labour hours than he generates. but not every player is losing a 5th rate every day. So the overall balance is not off. the idea of a working economy is that there is a flow of hours one way, and money the other. players losing a 5th rate every day should be earning enough to pay for the hours output of those who aren't.

Maybe the balance is a bit off, perhaps a little more hours are needed, but I don't think its far wrong.

Edited June 1, 2017 by JCDC

[z4ys]

Still no hotfix for outlaw fleetship exploit? Outlawbattles should be disabled till further review.

[Corona Lisa]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

lets experiment then.. increase lh by 30%
who is against? please respond here and explain why

I think they are fine, it forces people to trade with each other which is good.

[Captain corn blower]

As of now I'm 2 month into the game in pve  , I did not get a clan invite for two weeks and I struggled I almost gave up on this game the admiralty battles are very hard now 6 and 7 rate you used to get help in the 7 rate . And gold and XP were higher . last night I got seal club by a pirate Brig in my snow , it was all I could do to escape him and get out of the match I . Maybe if you didn't lose your ships and the admiralty battles it give you a chance to learn I don't mind losing but losing , BUT not my  ship in the process !!! It is not worth the hassle the first couple of ships in each tear should be a learning tool not a impossibility I seriously thought about thought about quitting last night after getting whooped didn't made one mistake and it went downhill from there I couldn't recover was all I could do to get out of the mess without losing my ship but I'll keep trying I'm more than sure there's people who won't.  come on devs!!!

Edited June 1, 2017 by Captain corn blower

[SneakyTurtle]

I like that the NPC ship prices have increased. 

 

But a shop same port NPC Fir Frigate at $52K and a NPC Mahogany Frigate at $129K seems like an unreasonable jump in price. 

[Captain Clark]

Devs are labour hours a problem?  No what is a problem is the silly prices to craft basic commodities + labour hours, such as oak which are now need in larger quantities, that is what you need to adjusting down by 30%.

[Captain corn blower]

Devs you trying to get new people in to this game if it's to hard in the beginning levels there not going to play the game and recommended to their friends!!!!! No $$ the game will never get out of development

[LordOfDope]

@admin is the Cartagena Tar replenish in store nor working. It should be in Cartagena de Indias but its never in the store. All the other special goods for the upgrades I can always find in high or low numbers in the port where it should be in only not this 1. And there is also no contract on it, its just bever there

[admin]

6 minutes ago, LordOfDope said:

@admin is the Cartagena Tar replenish in store nor working. It should be in Cartagena de Indias but its never in the store. All the other special goods for the upgrades I can always find in high or low numbers in the port where it should be in only not this 1. And there is also no contract on it, its just bever there

cartagena tar spawns in cartagena from time to time.

[Rychu Karas]

44 minutes ago, admin said:

...

When i reached lvl 2 on my new player yesterday (after 2 evenings of playtime) i already had 75k. I could only sail a pickle or a privateer, but was already able to afford an unarmed frigate (at 50k)

4

Amazing, you ask us to sail a week fkin cuter to afford  EMPTY frigate. After another one to collect money for guns 150-200k. When we buy this whole shit, one mistake with npcs or gank of enemy plarers means REPEAT again everything. Even in stupid wot, players can just jump over fist few lvles no one force them to ride loltractor for a week.

it become more ridiculous from patch to patch

[Parazaine]

I agree with both the Admin, that money really isnt the issue that everyone is making it and with the point about harvesting costs.  A few midshipman missions even will give you more than enough money to buy an upgrade to the cutter. Yes cannon prices are too high imo ... making cannons a money sink is ok, making them salable per cannon is ok, making the price for a single cannon equivilent to an entire deck pre-wipe seems like either an oversight or overkill.

The Harvesting of resources DOES seem to need adjustment ... crafting and supply of crafted goods to the markets depends on crafters actually being able to afford to craft ... the harvesting prices for buildings DO seem overly high atm.

[Aphilas]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Based on what we know from last year. Money is not going to be a problem in a very near future. For 3 reasons

• Unlimited supply of trading resources (they spawn every day)
• Unlimited supply of NPC combat and trading ships
• Unlimited supply of missions

When i reached lvl 2 on my new player yesterday (after 2 evenings of playtime) i already had 75k. I could only sail a pickle or a privateer, but was already able to afford an unarmed frigate (at 50k)

What I am pointing out is that early game is pretty much unplayable. You take information from previous builds and balance early game experience around inflated economy of late game. Yes, once player get things going it is still easy. But you have to make game entrance more enjoyable and available if you want to have semi decent new player retention.

Issue is scaling. To express myself better:

Small ships/cannons cost vs early missions and battle rewards = very poor progression

Medium/large ships cannons cost vs late missions and battle rewards = too high progression.

Add to this that big profits from trading comes _after_ one gets enough money to get things rolling and you get what you have currently - very poor economy at the start and very inflated economy after couple months of playing.

 

Rate 7 and 6 ships are game entering ships. Rate 5 and 4 should be the "workhorses" on which players make money. Rates 3, 2, 1 expensive and not very profitable to be used daily, rather pulled out for important battles/PBs. Shouldn't that be your goal for economy? If so, then go and balance ship/cannon production costs and mission/battle rewards accordingly instead of flat out "2.5x price of all NPC ships will fix economy".

Edited June 1, 2017 by Aphilas

[Sir Texas Sir]

49 minutes ago, admin said:

copy paste mistake...

Well when you copy and past it back in future hotfix can you maybe add the Heavy Rattler to that list.  Let us pirates be the master of the shallows and the other Nat's can have there high tier SOL's....but they would never go for that even though they have 8 ships compared to our one right now....

38 minutes ago, Ned Low said:

You just made pvp even more dead. NPC prices are too high. Instead you could add a tag to them and lower their specs compared to Crafter build ones and keep the price down.  

Those guys who were about to get a ship must grind for $$$ x2 longer now. This Grinding BS is becoming ridiculous. 

Clans will be building ships inside clans and those not in clans must grind non stop. Welcome to Naval Grind. 

Add rewards, for example junk loot (Content) that can be exchanged for gold and other items. Anything that can boost gold income is welcome. 

Yah I think they are added prices in the wrong place.  All they do when you jack up the shop prices is folks think, well hell they can sale those for that much I can sale this crafted ship for more and get  a bigger profit.

36 minutes ago, admin said:

lets experiment then.. increase lh by 30%
who is against? please respond here and explain why

Is it the lower level guys that aren't 50 crafters that are having a problem or is it they are trying to craft every thing fast and not take it's time. You shouldn't be building a ship in a day.  It took me  a week to get to a surprise on testbed building wise with the help of the redeemable and three chars.  So that is like a small clan helping each other.  Solo player will take longer.

31 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

I think they are fine, it forces people to trade with each other which is good.

The problem is folks are so tight on gold and mats they aren't sharing or trading right now and you won't see any one for a while doing so if things stay the same.

19 minutes ago, Captain Clark said:

Devs are labour hours a problem?  No what is a problem is the silly prices to craft basic commodities + labour hours, such as oak which are now need in larger quantities, that is what you need to adjusting down by 30%.

This is honestly my bottle neck is the cost to produce the goods.  You add up the cost of Coal (it's not so bad), Oak, Iron, Fir buildings and I can't produce enough cause I'm short on money. It takes way to much gold to withdraw and I"m not making enough off cannons yet I'm saling in the shop to keep producing so they are actually gaing stock in them.  I pull them out...than i"m broke.  I go grind and trade and than go back and pull a little more out.  I don't do the econ trade for items since that is a pain and takes time away from me going out and PvPing or gridning ships for xp for my ship knowledge that is killing me cause I don't wnat to be in all these little ships.

[Teutonic]

Increasing the price of npc ships is the right move in my opinion, but.....

Where is the incentive? One thing need to happen for our economy now.

1. Resources from buildings must be cheaper. 

As to @admins offer to increase labor hours. I would rather have an unlimited cap to labor hours than a labor hour generation increase. So that I can come online after a few days and have 4-5000 labor hours.

[Konali89]

Labour hours are more than fine for me imho, its balanced properly and you can use it for plenty of things, you just need to prioritise.

The harvesting costs of getting stuff out of your production buildings, for some items are indeed a bit steep and i would consider them a bigger bottleneck than labour hours.
This would result in cheaper player crafter ships aswell in the end, and might give people a better stimulation to risk that one fight and perhaps accept the loss.
From a clan point of view, most things are ok and doable. For the solo guys or small groups  or players with limited time, reducing the harvesting costs would make up for the time investment and risk of losing ships around 5th rate.

[shaeberle84]

46 minutes ago, JCDC said:

I would say that labour hours are a limit to solo players, but, in clans its not a problem.

so, just increasing labour hours will make the clan economy too strong. Its not the right solution. it is supposed to be hard for people to build ships solo.

Of course, a player losing 1 5th rate a day is losing more labour hours than he generates. but not every player is losing a 5th rate every day. So the overall balance is not off. the idea of a working economy is that there is a flow of hours one way, and money the other. players losing a 5th rate every day should be earning enough to pay for the hours output of those who aren't.

Maybe the balance is a bit off, perhaps a little more hours are needed, but I don't think its far wrong.

Losing a 5th rate is even more severe. Replacing it costs up to 2000 LH, not counting repairs.

The economy for large clans works because people have endless alt accounts. Simple as that. But the economy should not  be based on a system requiring people to buy several copies of the game to be able to compete.

[Ink]

24 minutes ago, SneakyTurtle said:

I like that the NPC ship prices have increased. 

 

But a shop same port NPC Fir Frigate at $52K and a NPC Mahogany Frigate at $129K seems like an unreasonable jump in price. 

Some time has to pass to get rid of old ship price in shops.

18 minutes ago, LordOfDope said:

@admin is the Cartagena Tar replenish in store nor working. It should be in Cartagena de Indias but its never in the store. All the other special goods for the upgrades I can always find in high or low numbers in the port where it should be in only not this 1. And there is also no contract on it, its just bever there

It is a rare resource and it may take some time to spawn some quanity of it

[C0deX]

14 minutes ago, Rychu Karas said:

Amazing, you ask us to sail a week fkin cuter to afford  EMPTY frigate. After another one to collect money for guns 150-200k. When we buy this whole shit, one mistake with npcs or gank of enemy plarers means REPEAT again everything. Even in stupid wot, players can just jump over fist few lvles no one force them to ride loltractor for a week.

it become more ridiculous from patch to patch

100% sign

The new prices is punch in New players face. But pls dont excite if in few weeks are only a handful of players left like before the wipe.

As a working person the game is no longer playable.

[Corona Lisa]

Just now, Sir Texas Sir said:

The problem is folks are so tight on gold and mats they aren't sharing or trading right now and you won't see any one for a while doing so if things stay the same.

If you need money and dont want to get too invested with economy just get some iron ore mines and sell it in capital. Crafting 1 iron ore = 60 gold and you can sell it for 120 gold average.

Im building cannons for example and I cant afford to "waste" my LH to get iron ore. I have to buy it. If LH get increased I can do it without any other one involved. Boring...

Maybe you mean some other mats and maybe its different there idk....

[JCDC]

3 minutes ago, shaeberle84 said:

Losing a 5th rate is even more severe. Replacing it costs up to 2000 LH, not counting repairs.

The economy for large clans works because people have endless alt accounts. Simple as that. But the economy should not  be based on a system requiring people to buy several copies of the game to be able to compete.

no, that's not why our clan economy works and its pretty pointless telling me when I run it, and you don't even know who we are. very few members use alts in our particular clan, I am literally aware of 2 being used fro crafting, out of 30.

And we do just fine.

Yes in some other clans they use lots of alts to supercharge their economy, but contrary to what you post, its not required. I know that for 100% sure because we do it. its like proof positive. we use 5th rates in large numbers every day atm, we are adding more all the time, losing some etc. and our economy does in no way rely on alts.

Edited June 1, 2017 by JCDC