Lack of Solo/Small Group PvP?

[TommyShelby]

Since the patch it seems almost impossible to find good PvP. In 20-25 hours of sailing around on OW i have managed to get 1 good fight.

Usually i don’t find anything and when i do find something it is 10-25 man fleets.

Solo/Small group PvP seems almost non-existent.

For a player like myself, and a clan like OCEAN, this is a horrible thing.

I am bored like never before and everyday i have less and less motivation to log into Naval Action.
So does my clan mates, right before the patch we would have 8-12 people online in our prime time, this number has fallen to 2-5.
 

Some people say i/we are looking for PvP in the wrong places. I asked those people where the right place is, i’ve gone to that place, sailed around for about 7 hours (spread out over 2 sessions) and my experience is the same as every other place on the map.

You find nothing or you find very big fleets.

 

I have no suggestion on what to change to make it better. But i hope someone else does.
I hope that something will change soon so that i can enjoy Naval Action again.

I’m posting this so that we can get a discussion going on this subject, and maybe get some suggestions on what can be changed to make Solo/Small group PvP plentiful once more.

 

Cheers.

Tommy Shelby.

[akd]

I think the new conquest system has us spread out more than ever before.  Combine with small pop and encounters drop significantly.  That said, the big problem I am having is finding PvP, then having it ruined by multiple AI fleets getting dragged in.

[Rhodry Heidenrich]

I've more or less given up on trying to find decent PvP (On PvP2).

I know the hotspots, but they turn into a game of In/Out of port peek-a-boo, which is boring.

Also run into an endless stream of runners who just can't stand the thought of losing a durability on a dime-a-dozen frigate.

Coast hugging for tower/fort protection.

The list goes on and on.

Come to think of it, the last time I had a fight where I could legitimately say it was fun was going on three weeks ago. That's sad and makes me wonder why I'm even bothering to play on a PvP server (or play the game at all at this point).

I also feel the fact that there's a PvE element to building hostility is a significant part of the problem. I understand why the devs put in a PvE element to some degree, but as the saying goes "The path to hell is paved with good intentions". On PvP2 it seems like players are happy as can be to drive up hostility by running missions because there's such little risk to it. They can just beat up on the derpy AI and not have to worry too much about being captured or sunk.

Just my own personal opinion, but since the conquering of territory is (supposed to be) a PvP activity through port battles, the path to those port battles should be strictly PvP as well.

[Anne Wildcat]

I haven't been on much, but that is because of a project I'm working on in real life.  

 

What might be hindering PvP

-- Ships are harder to craft with the new econ

-- As econ has moved away from the capitals so have the PVP hotspots moved

-- AI being pulled in bc of the new ROE

Before the patch, my group was able to find battles around KPR.  Now with no Econ there & the AI fleets hugging the shore, we have stopped looking there.  We have found some PVP near Bonacca. Little River, or so I heard, is a new hotspot as people want to get that Bermuda Cedar.

I will probably always consider myself a noob at PVP.  Before the patch, I could build ships as needed so I really didn't care about loosing them, just my shipyards at Freetowns & my smugglers flag was all that was needed.  Now with the fine wood & scarcity of some resources, it is harder to replace a ship so I am much less confident in trying solo fights. 

[Mrdoomed]

15 minutes ago, Anne Wildcat said:

I haven't been on much, but that is because of a project I'm working on in real life.  

 

What might be hindering PvP

-- Ships are harder to craft with the new econ

-- As econ has moved away from the capitals so have the PVP hotspots moved

-- AI being pulled in bc of the new ROE

Before the patch, my group was able to find battles around KPR.  Now with no Econ there & the AI fleets hugging the shore, we have stopped looking there.  We have found some PVP near Bonacca. Little River, or so I heard, is a new hotspot as people want to get that Bermuda Cedar.

I will probably always consider myself a noob at PVP.  Before the patch, I could build ships as needed so I really didn't care about loosing them, just my shipyards at Freetowns & my smugglers flag was all that was needed.  Now with the fine wood & scarcity of some resources, it is harder to replace a ship so I am much less confident in trying solo fights. 

Come to pvp2, we will take care of a fellow true pirate .  Weve even got a ton of ships to give to you to get you started . 

Come Anne, come to the dark side, we have tear flavored cookies. 

[Archaos]

I think if you went out solo you would find PvP, but it would most probably be 3/4 people against you.

The thing the devs cannot put into the game is a willingness of people to engage in PvP. It is easy to blame the game mechanics but if people dont want to PvP there is no way to force them. This has been seen in the treasure fleet event, where they did everything to encourage PvP but people were more interested in the loot from the treasure than engaging in active PvP as envisioned by the Devs. This can also be seen in the new hostility mechanic where people would rather PvE to raise hostility and once a fleet comes out to engage them they run, same for the defending side they prefer to grind down hostility by PvE rather than PvP.

A lot of people say they want PvP but are only willing to fight if the odds are in their favor.

It could be the difficulty in crafting ships, but throwaway 1 dura ships are readily available and npc sold ships are relatively cheap so I dont know why people do not use them if they are afraid to lose good crafted ships.

It may also be that with the new patch people are spending more time hauling goods all over the map rather than fighting.

There may be lots of reasons but I think the main one is people just dont want to PvP unless the odds are stacked in their favour.

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 hours ago, Rhodry Heidenrich said:

I've more or less given up on trying to find decent PvP (On PvP2).

I know the hotspots, but they turn into a game of In/Out of port peek-a-boo, which is boring.

Also run into an endless stream of runners who just can't stand the thought of losing a durability on a dime-a-dozen frigate.

Coast hugging for tower/fort protection.

The list goes on and on.

Come to think of it, the last time I had a fight where I could legitimately say it was fun was going on three weeks ago. That's sad and makes me wonder why I'm even bothering to play on a PvP server (or play the game at all at this point).

I also feel the fact that there's a PvE element to building hostility is a significant part of the problem. I understand why the devs put in a PvE element to some degree, but as the saying goes "The path to hell is paved with good intentions". On PvP2 it seems like players are happy as can be to drive up hostility by running missions because there's such little risk to it. They can just beat up on the derpy AI and not have to worry too much about being captured or sunk.

Just my own personal opinion, but since the conquering of territory is (supposed to be) a PvP activity through port battles, the path to those port battles should be strictly PvP as well.

The last two fights I been in was cause some one at Tort attacking a trader player and getting into the fight to protect them or just for fun.  Seems you got to bait them pretty much with an easy target.  Both times I was out number and I still sunk them all.  Seems like to many use AI crutch too.  So the only way to get a fight is it has to be alike 2/3 vs 1 any way or the 15 vs 1.   I'm pretty much now just poping in to burn labor hours and playing other games.

[Mrdoomed]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

I think if you went out solo you would find PvP, but it would most probably be 3/4 people against you.

The thing the devs cannot put into the game is a willingness of people to engage in PvP. It is easy to blame the game mechanics but if people dont want to PvP there is no way to force them. This has been seen in the treasure fleet event, where they did everything to encourage PvP but people were more interested in the loot from the treasure than engaging in active PvP as envisioned by the Devs. This can also be seen in the new hostility mechanic where people would rather PvE to raise hostility and once a fleet comes out to engage them they run, same for the defending side they prefer to grind down hostility by PvE rather than PvP.

A lot of people say they want PvP but are only willing to fight if the odds are in their favor.

It could be the difficulty in crafting ships, but throwaway 1 dura ships are readily available and npc sold ships are relatively cheap so I dont know why people do not use them if they are afraid to lose good crafted ships.

It may also be that with the new patch people are spending more time hauling goods all over the map rather than fighting.

There may be lots of reasons but I think the main one is people just dont want to PvP unless the odds are stacked in their favour.

You could not be more right and i dont think it matters about ships cost or durability or anything other than ego and hurt feeling. This new generation of gamers are used to the click, die, respawn for free and right back at the clicking games. LOL, doda, diablo etc . 

They basically fear any lose that has consequences no matter how small the setback is. Ive enganged ships 3 times my size and captured them because they run the entire battle firing nothing but chain shot, when thier rear guns could probably knck my front armore out in just a few shots.

Notning will make new gamers from this generation fight pvp. What the devs should have done was stick with thier original ow game that was more difficult to play and keep going from there and keep and attract a more dedicated player base that understand these kinds of games.

[Lord Vicious]

5 hours ago, TommyShelby said:

Since the patch it seems almost impossible to find good PvP. In 20-25 hours of sailing around on OW i have managed to get 1 good fight.

Usually i don’t find anything and when i do find something it is 10-25 man fleets.

Solo/Small group PvP seems almost non-existent.

For a player like myself, and a clan like OCEAN, this is a horrible thing.

I am bored like never before and everyday i have less and less motivation to log into Naval Action.
So does my clan mates, right before the patch we would have 8-12 people online in our prime time, this number has fallen to 2-5.
 

Some people say i/we are looking for PvP in the wrong places. I asked those people where the right place is, i’ve gone to that place, sailed around for about 7 hours (spread out over 2 sessions) and my experience is the same as every other place on the map.

You find nothing or you find very big fleets.

 

I have no suggestion on what to change to make it better. But i hope someone else does.
I hope that something will change soon so that i can enjoy Naval Action again.

I’m posting this so that we can get a discussion going on this subject, and maybe get some suggestions on what can be changed to make Solo/Small group PvP plentiful once more.

 

Cheers.

Tommy Shelby.

 

they killed the game Tommy

 

pre patch my clan got 30 ppl on, today 10, and half ppl is in ts3 but not really in game since nobody wanna play since we spent last week sail around getting no pvp. at all.

 

the combination of

impossible resource to gain (fine liveoak)

towers+forts

supercircle that bring in npc

nerf of mission gold gain/xp gain,  nobody do missions anymore. so no chance to gank ppl in ow

new pb system that force to farm/grind pve for get a pb that you cant organize since every fucking random idiot will get in making impossible for a big clan to get in (while before you buy flag you go so randoms got low chance to interfer)  in an organized way, since all will know about 2 day before.         Also since ppl log out in front there is no more interception/screening so less pvp chance.

 

all of this killed the pvp, made the game x10 more time consuming,          add on top that they made a craft system with this patch, and instead fix it they announced another remake instead address all this issues and pirate mechanics.    + reset announce

 

Game over, personally i am playng another game meanwhile they fix this mess

Edited November 12, 2016 by Lord Vicious

[Jeheil]

When Vicious and Shelby...two enemies of the Brits make me say "they are very much right" it is a very disconcerting time.

Come on Dev's....without being overly salty or hurt...give us some crumbs about the next patch and what your design approach will be for the issues raised by the OP and echoed by LV

[Daniboy3000]

Get rid of AI  Fleets (only for traders maybe).

Reduce the amount of forts / towers in OW.

Dont drag NPC fleets in the outer circle.

Rework hostility to be focused on PvP (not sure how this would be achievable though): maybe reduce the impact of PvE and War Supplies and add some sort of PvP missions by refactoring the flag mechanics, e.g. raids (this whole thing probably needs a bit more throught though).

[Magnum]

I still think the game needs a limit on rank and wealth if you don't PvP. Perhaps the only way you can get XP above Post Capt. is to take it from other players and under Post Captain you simply don't have enough crew to drive the fun ships like Victory etc.

IDK - Perhaps a "status" metric that slowly deteriorates if you don't PvP at least once per week, or PvP is the only way to cap ships at all - no AI capping - lotsa things can be tried without much effort.

 

[Red Jack Walker]

24 minutes ago, Magnum said:

I still think the game needs a limit on rank and wealth if you don't PvP. Perhaps the only way you can get XP above Post Capt. is to take it from other players and under Post Captain you simply don't have enough crew to drive the fun ships like Victory etc.

IDK - Perhaps a "status" metric that slowly deteriorates if you don't PvP at least once per week, or PvP is the only way to cap ships at all - no AI capping - lotsa things can be tried without much effort.

 

Forcing people to PvP is not the correct answer in my opinion. PvP is by far funnier and more satisfying than PvE...so the game should simply put the players in the best conditions to take part in PvP battles. Too bad the game is now structurally built to kill PvP and to force many players to leave. You develop a game for the "elites" and medium players start leaving day after day...it's a law of nature. Less players, less targets.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Red Jack Walker

[Kaos]

2 hours ago, Red Jack Walker said:

Forcing people to PvP is not the correct answer in my opinion. PvP is by far funnier and more satisfying than PvE...so the game should simply put the players in the best conditions to take part in PvP battles. Too bad the game is now structurally built to kill PvP and to force many players to leave. You develop a game for the "elites" and medium players start leaving day after day...it's a law of nature. Less players, less targets.

I doubt the pve elite will be running out of targets anytime soon and even if the medium/small players aka the pvpers leave then even better it seems, less nuisance when doing pve.

[Cabral]

11 hours ago, TommyShelby said:

Since the patch it seems almost impossible to find good PvP. In 20-25 hours of sailing around on OW i have managed to get 1 good fight.

Usually i don’t find anything and when i do find something it is 10-25 man fleets.

Solo/Small group PvP seems almost non-existent.

For a player like myself, and a clan like OCEAN, this is a horrible thing.

I am bored like never before and everyday i have less and less motivation to log into Naval Action.
So does my clan mates, right before the patch we would have 8-12 people online in our prime time, this number has fallen to 2-5.
 

Some people say i/we are looking for PvP in the wrong places. I asked those people where the right place is, i’ve gone to that place, sailed around for about 7 hours (spread out over 2 sessions) and my experience is the same as every other place on the map.

You find nothing or you find very big fleets.

 

I have no suggestion on what to change to make it better. But i hope someone else does.
I hope that something will change soon so that i can enjoy Naval Action again.

I’m posting this so that we can get a discussion going on this subject, and maybe get some suggestions on what can be changed to make Solo/Small group PvP plentiful once more.

 

Cheers.

Tommy Shelby.

 You miss all those newbies players around Jamaica? No more easy ganking? It seems you need to work harder like everyone else.

[Corona Lisa]

Imo the rules of engagement + people scared to lose their ships cuz its hard to craft them really killed PvP.

[Archaos]

I too do not think forcing people into PvP is the answer, I have seen it in other games where the more you try and force people into PvP the less PvP you actually get as those people who do not like PvP or are not very experienced and lose a lot just end up quitting.

PvP should be made so it is enjoyable even if you lose, but not sure how you achieve that. It also needs a change in player attitudes so they are not abusive to other players and taunt them or insult them after they have won or lost. People already feel bad when they lose a battle so no need to rub salt in the wound and if someone beats you fairly then there is no need to hurl abuse at that person, even if they win unfairly there is no need for personal abuse, report the unfair tactics they used and hopefully something will be done to prevent that happening again.

I think encouragement to engage in PvP is the way to go, maybe some sort of advanced rank system and rewards, but not a PvP leader board as I find such things are just a place for elitists to stroke their e-peen.

[Mrdoomed]

6 hours ago, Kaos said:

I doubt the pve elite will be running out of targets anytime soon and even if the medium/small players aka the pvpers leave then even better it seems, less nuisance when doing pve.

i think this quote says more then it intended to and is spot on. i have said since day one to  deaf ears that having so much pve in a pvp server is killing pvp and should never be in the server.

Finally the pve missions at least have a point but nobdy will do them because the pve elite carebears who only join the pvp server for port battles. pre patch i would jump players in shis much bigger than mine who would run and tell me im a ahole for wasting thier time with pvp or they would offer me gold to let them go do missions etc.

Ive mentioned dozons of ways to make it better but it seems this game will nkt deviate from a strict patch and will.continue to allow no pvp in the pve server but encourage pve in a pvp server.

[Rhodry Heidenrich]

Games where PvP is is a large part need to have few barriers to it.

The last patch, which I hoped was going to encourage more PvP because of the hostility mechanics, wound up placing more barriers on PvP with the ROE changes, the AI Fleets, the ludicrous number of coastal fortifications, and of course the cost of crafting ships has become prohibitive in terms of time and resources. 

So now I'm hoping that the devs take a lot of the feedback from this phase of testing and make some good adjustments in the next patch. Until then it's back to logging in every few days to burn some crafting hours and do a little econ. PvP is the last thing I'm interested in now because it's turned into such a farce (especially on PvP2).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mrdoomed]

25 minutes ago, Rhodry Heidenrich said:

Games where PvP is is a large part need to have few barriers to it.

The last patch, which I hoped was going to encourage more PvP because of the hostility mechanics, wound up placing more barriers on PvP with the ROE changes, the AI Fleets, the ludicrous number of coastal fortifications, and of course the cost of crafting ships has become prohibitive in terms of time and resources. 

So now I'm hoping that the devs take a lot of the feedback from this phase of testing and make some good adjustments in the next patch. Until then it's back to logging in every few days to burn some crafting hours and do a little econ. PvP is the last thing I'm interested in now because it's turned into such a farce (especially on PvP2).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah pvp is almost impossible for solo or a group of two. IF you can acually manage to tag a player without bringing in 20 ai ships to defend him then youhave to worry about coastal defense which IS EVERYWHERE UP AND DOWN EVER COAST.  Basically freeports are the only spots you can get pvp without a fort or tower ruining it.

Yesterday was another perfect example .  my friend and i both in connies tagged a bellona and inger players .  Of course being cowards they would not fighr us. they turned ther ships toward Hati and sailed for 70 minutes to the coast. We had thier stern gone and was killing crew with chasers and had thier sails wrecked TWO TIMES because of repair but we never could get side by side so they kept running. GUESS WHAT THEY FINALLY RAN INTO?? Yep a friendly ports cannonsl forts and towers. both of them beached themselve next to the ports.  Within probably 2 minutes i went from full armor to using a repair to keep from sinking because my hull.was gone

 my friend also was wreked and lost his fleet ship because it was to stupid to retreat and was sunk by forts.

Great patch so far, im loving it. seriously at this point why do we even have a pvp server ?

Edited November 12, 2016 by Mrdoomed

[Rhodry Heidenrich]

1 minute ago, Mrdoomed said:

Yeah pvp is almost impossible for solo or a group of two. IF you can acually manage to tag a player without bringing in 20 ai ships to defend him then youhave to worry about coastal defense which IS EVERYWHERE UP AND DOWN EVER COAST.  Basically freeports are the only spots you can get pvp without a fort or tower ruining it.

Yesterday was another perfect example .  my friend and i both in connies tagged a bellona and inger players .  Of course being cowards they would not fighr us. they turned ther ships toward Hati and sailed for 70 minutes to the coast. We had thier stern gone and was killing crew with chasers and had thier sails wrecked TWO TIMES because of repair but we never could get side by side so they kept running. GUESS WHAT THEY FINALLY RAN INTO?? Yep a friendly ports cannonsl forts and towers. both of them beached themselve next to the ports.  Within probably 2 minutes i went from full armor to using a repair to keep from sinking because my hull.was gone

 my friend also was wreked and lost his fleet ship because it was to stupid to retreat and was sunk by forts.

Great patch so far, im loving it. seriously at this point why do we even have a pvp server ?

I hear you.

My last couple PvP experiences were similar situations dealing with cowards who just wanted to run instead of fight.

 

10 minutes ago, Louis Garneray said:

Solution: maybe fix the machine gun raking effect... and people will loose less crew during a battle and will be able to maneuver and fight...

Solution needs to go further than that. Even previous to the new crew damage mechanics, plenty of players were unwilling to engage in PvP because they couldn't stand the thought of losing a 3/5 Exceptional ship they'd stuffed with expensive gold modifications. It's even worse now that crafting ships has become so expensive and time consuming. Ship loss shouldn't be so crippling to a player's psyche that the only flag they're willing to hoist is one emblazoned with a pair of Nike running shoes. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mrdoomed]

57 minutes ago, Louis Garneray said:

Solution: maybe fix the machine gun raking effect... and people will loose less crew during a battle and will be able to maneuver and fight...

Ive never experienced heavy crew loses and my friends havent either .  I think the loses are captain specific and due to thier techniques and battle situations.

[Ixal]

32 minutes ago, Rhodry Heidenrich said:

Solution needs to go further than that. Even previous to the new crew damage mechanics, plenty of players were unwilling to engage in PvP because they couldn't stand the thought of losing a 3/5 Exceptional ship they'd stuffed with expensive gold modifications. It's even worse now that crafting ships has become so expensive and time consuming. Ship loss shouldn't be so crippling to a player's psyche that the only flag they're willing to hoist is one emblazoned with a pair of Nike running shoes.

The crafting change might help a bit, but in depends on how difficult ships will be to craft, even without quality levels.

I also think that better market tools and market places might ease the issue as losses are more easy to replace. It would also help if it would be more easy to get to those market places and back again so either make overland travel shorter or otherwise more comfortable or have a offline delivery system even if the goods have to physically sail to its destination on NPCs with the risk of being intercepted.

[Werewolf]

Yeah, if you are a solo/privateer type, it's time to move on. I haven't played in over a week now, only logging in to use my crafting hours to stockpile notes. It has become clear to me this game will always favor large clans/groups, and will continue making life harder and harder for solo players like myself. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. 

[Mrdoomed]

32 minutes ago, Werewolf said:

Yeah, if you are a solo/privateer type, it's time to move on. I haven't played in over a week now, only logging in to use my crafting hours to stockpile notes. It has become clear to me this game will always favor large clans/groups, and will continue making life harder and harder for solo players like myself. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. 

If you are the same werewolf from pvp2 i feel your pain. I know you and i, well my entire clan, hunt alone or in a small group.  Weve had some good scraps together comming to each others aid. Sadly you are right. The days of lone hunting or lone playing for the matter are gone and unless you are into big clans and a port battle sim there is nothing to do.  Since the patch introducing fine wood i have not been able to gather enough  fine timber STILL to make one ship better than basic.  Im sure even the big clans have prioritized who gets the best and who gets nothing but for all the players who did and now " never will if released" play solo or in very small groups we are subject to using bottom of the barrel crap ships while still fighting opponents in exeptional ships with gold mods as well. Not much fun there since we have a greater chance of losing BUT thats if ow pvp existed but luckily with thousands of ai fleets and forts and towers covering the entire map exept for the middle of the sea there is very little to no pvp.

I think the devs have noticed the massivedecline in players (my server pvp2 has lost over half its.population ) and the few things causing this myself and others have mentioned good ideas to help but hopefully they will fix it . If not werewolf you could be right.