The Vereenigde Provinciën declares war on Spain

[Senhor Lenhador]

Actually, there is a big difference between asking to record the conversation for later reference, and publishing the conversation on public forums. If I had known, I would not have consented.

Righto, well then that's a case of crossed wires and as Deltonos said, our bad  If it's a real problem for you or anyone else I imagine Deltonos will take it down if you ask him, if he hasn't already.  In any future discussions (if and when our rather robust internal processes allow them to occur) maybe we'll look of some other form of publicly available minuting because we're as much sick and tired of the "he said, she said" that accompanies inter-nation dealings in this game as anyone.

 

Y Deltonos para que lo sabes, ya hace mas de un siglo que mi familia no tiene acento Britanico.  Australiano y orgulloso de serlo!!!!!

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Let's get back on topic please.

[Thonys]

Let's get back on topic please.

 

please do so

 

And in the mean time ,can some of you get your profile in order,. i sometimes dont know witch country is talking ,its confusing some times...

[deltonos]

Audio deleted from mega.

Peace & Rum.

As @Henry d'Esterre Darby says, "Let's get back on topic please."

[Jeheil]

I know that at least some of Jeheil's "informants" stopped submitting reports because despite making a point of relying on reports from every nation, the reports from some nations were completely ignored to fit an agenda rather than report facts. So I wouldn't get my hopes up.

 

-----------

 

I am waiting to see how long it takes before the Dutch change alliances over their pet cause "server balance"...

 

OK, I had no idea that this happened. All bar one of the folks who give me information have told me they are busy or whatever. I also don't recall ever leaving anything out (of substance) from any persons input to me, but I may have inadvertently not made something of importance to them stand out.

 

If there is a perception  I have an agenda I will try to make it clearer that in my Letter to the Kings I cover things as objectively as I can. I do often point out I see things through a British perspective, I don't pretend to get it all right all the time. If I do have a secret Agenda...its good...coz even I don't know it.

 

As an example, when Brits pulled flags (twice) to block attacks on Port Antonio, despite them having a "justification" I called it out as wrong and asked for that sort of behaviour by any nation to not continue in the interest of the game.

 

Right now the news seems very one sided...but so is the war.

 

I will double my efforts next week to appear as objective as possible, I enjoy making L2tK and I know alot of folks appreciate them, with the war as it is, I am also very aware it is difficult for any report of "bad news" from the Spanish/Dane/France/Pirate perspective and expect it to be well received as well delivered news/summary/overview.

 

My ingame name is Jeheil, my forum name is Jeheil. I am happy to receive any updates from folks on any server and try and bring it into the L2tK.

 

All I need is something like this, before shutdown on Sunday.

 

Nation X focused on the war in the bay of Haiti this week.

We ran lots of interference, gank fleets.

The two major battles wer Les Gone and Nippes where we defended against full 25 fleet attacks (our allies screened)

We also took 3 ports in the Yucutan, these were either not defended or lightly defended.

 

That is the sort of thing I ask for, no long term plans, no individual names or clan names, no secrets etc.

 

If any of you from any na

[Lord Vicious]

My response to all this:

 

Spanish - This should never have been posted without explicit consent of all involved. I did not expect this. So many treaties have been made and broken with no evidence of who is in the right and who is in the wrong. My assumption for the recordings which were done on both sides was so that we would have proof of any agreement made and not for the purpose of airing private discussions without due cause. Posting this was bad form.

 

It is a minor mistake though and hopefully a learning experience to the new diplomats of Spain.

 

To everyone else - Since it has been posted, context is important. The US was brought into this discussion by our allies and the Spanish were not expecting us. We agreed to go as observers. At the end we took the opportunity to state our position. It was a simple position and included elements (not screening) that the Spanish had asked of us in the past and we had granted. There was precedent. If you don't like, so what.

 

I could care less about Lord Bullshitters opinions.

 

Johny Reb/Thomas Pain

 

edit: Thank you Spain for the conversation. Even though the discussion didn't lead to anything productive, it was cordial and it was nice to meet your new representative.

 

Observer , observ not talk and make veiled treath to spanish regards their alliance with pirates again you very bad at this politic game

[EricKilla]

Observer , observ not talk and make veiled treath to spanish regards their alliance with pirates again you very bad at this politic game

In this case, it is not politics. It is war. We made that explicitly clear by taking the west coast of Florida off Spain's hands after the meeting was concluded.

 

The meeting's stated purpose wasn't even to make a peace deal. It was just to gauge the needs of each community, and for people to state what they wanted. Admittedly, it was on the Dutch for inviting us to a meeting and yet at the same time not informing Spain that we would be there, but still, it is to be expected from two warring parties to toss threats and ultimatums at each-other. God knows you did it to us.

 

"veiled threats" Hahah! It's not like we didn't take like 10 ports off of them this weekend, after that meeting... oh wait. That's right. We did.

[Lytse Pier]

Let's get back on topic please.

 

The war declaration was done. It holds true until further notice by decree of our council. As noted, the Dutch diplomatic corps is always available to discuss terms with the Spanish in unison with our allies. 

[Don Inocencio Botijo]

 

The Brits (and the very well represented Dutch) are looking at peace for no reason other than to help Spain retain their community/playerbase. The US/Swede/Dutch/Brit alliance won over 20 ports in the last 3 days and twice that in the last 2 weeks. Spain have defended valiantly, their allies have simply not supported them as well as their enemies have supported each other.

 

The Brits are looking for a buffer (around Jamaica) so that should Spain decide to attack (announced or otherwise) they must first attack the buffer, this to some extent means that the 'victors' in this current war WIN the right to protect their homeland from a future war !!

 

The Spanish seem to be negotiating as if they hold the ports they have lost. They talk of 'having to surrender' ports they have already lost.

 

Spain is losing, unyet they expect ports 'given back to them', they try to negotiate as if they are winning....they need to have the realisation they are losing.

 

In the west they want TWENTY FOUR PORTS handed over to the Spanish from Ysil to Truxillo, the Spanish didn't hold these ports, they were held by Brits or Pirates over the last four months (originally Aussie/German Brits...then when the Aussies went to the Black, they were held by the pirates) recently the pirates have been trying to screen their own ports to let the Spanish take them, the Brits (Oceanic timers) have had to beat a combined Pirate/Spanish force to return these ports to red. And lets not forget for 4 months these ports were on the 10-14 timers (to support Oceanic/Asia play) and when Spain come they put them to 16-20 (4am to 8am !!) for Oceanic/Asia players.

 

Hats off to all parties though for trying to negotiate.

 

I would suggest listening and perhaps taking the theme of Praefect's advise and defining areas of conflict for a 'gentlemans war'

• Agree to fight over Portilo to Escondido, agree to fight over the caymans but no further into Haita/Jamaica from the Spanish and no further into Cuba for the Brits.
• I think that from Truxilo to the Florida keys...that huge arc covering the west and north of the map, its open warfare.
• After all we need to test land in port battles soon !!

 

Dear Jeheil.

 

As Metropolitan Archbishop of Havana, and on behalf of all my flock, I thank you for your concern about our playerbase. They are all fine, thanks. Enjoying the Spanish summer on the beach with their families and kids. They will be back after the summer, tanned, relaxed and ready to kick your anglican deviationist rears, as we did in the south of Cuba before you decided to bring in your Dutch friends, their Swedish pets, and finally coordinate your attacks with the godless USA, and their tremendously witty leaders.

 

The simple fact is that, despite the help our captains receive from God, and the prayers of the Little sisters of the Holy Mojito, we cannot defend against so many attacks, so many enemies at the same time, while more than 50% of our players are on holidays. There is a little song in Spain that says:

 

Vinieron los sarracenos / Here came the Saracens

Y nos molieron a palos / And they kicked our butts

Por que Dios ayuda a los malos / beacuse God helps the bad guys

Cuando son más que los buenos / When they are more than the good guys.

 

Your are taking all the fun from the game, so, go ahead and capture all of those empty ports, We hope our martello towers are giving you a fun time. Capitán Sánchez has explained it very clearly. You have to understand that the purpose of the game is to have fun, not submit and humiliate other factions. If you reduce Spain to one port, then we will have more time to attack your trade and green players from neutral ports, and we will be even more resolute not to make peace, it is a cultural thing, I can recommend you some books if you want to try to understand, but Don Quixote I think summarizes it.

 

By the way, I really like your "Letters to the King" and other videos. Do not bother about those comments questioning your neutrality. Neutrality is a myth, of course you see things from the point of view of a brit, and that is OK. I wish there was a counterpart to your videos on our faction.

 

I'm a diplomat by trade, and I see with interest all the conversations taking place. The main problem I perceive it that all diplomats, including ours, are being too ambitious, trying to negotiate as nations, when there is no way to control your players. We are not really navies, no admiralty, no high command... there is no law enforcement to punish those that break treaties. I personally will not stop attacking British in Jamaican waters, or Dutch in front of their capital, whatever you decide on the negotiating table, this is what the game is about.  You should focus on one or more minimum, simple agreements. Something easy to negotiate that we can all agree upon. I don´t want peace, we just want to keep having fun games. If you put in place a United Nations style system of peace treaties and blue helmets, the only way of having fun in the game will be to play as pirate.

 

For example, each nation has a number of ports that cannot be attacked, ten, fifteen or whatever, which can ensure the viability of their economies. The rest of ports and waters are open for conquest and PVP. That is a simple agreement, enforceable by all nations. simple and reasonable. If you want a buffer, go to war and conquer it, etc. At least, let us see that there is something we can agree upon, and enforce it. Once this minimum has been achieved, then we can move into more sophisticated diplomacy.

 

And to show my good will, and my desire for peace, of sorts, I am going to hold a vigil of prayer with the Little Sisters of the Holy Mojito, for 24 hours straight to pray so that God illuminates the minds of the astute and gifted diplomats of all nations, in the hope they can bring some peace and put an end to all this misery and suffering. Here is my prayer for all of you, Urbi et Orbi.

 

Sancti Apostoli Petrus et Paulus: de quorum potestate et auctoritate confidimus, ipsi intercedant pro nobis ad Dominum. Amen.

Misereatur vestri omnipotens Deus; et dimissis omnibus peccatis vestris, perducat vos Iesus Christus ad vitam æternam.

Indulgentiam, absolutionem, et remissionem omnium peccatorum vestrorum, spatium veræ et fructuosae pœnitentiae, cor semper paenitens, et emendationem vitae, gratiam et consolationem Sancti Spiritus; et finalem perseverantiam in bonis operibus tribuat vobis omnipotens et misericors Dominus. Amen

Et benedictio Dei omnipotentis, Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti, descendat super vos et maneat semper. Amen.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Don Inocencio Botillo

[pietjenoob]

Dear Jeheil.

 

As Metropolitan Archbishop of Havana, and on behalf of all my flock, I thank you for your concern about our playerbase. They are all fine, thanks. Enjoying the Spanish summer on the beach with their families and kids. They will be back after the summer, tanned, relaxed and ready to kick your anglican deviationist rears, as we did in the south of Cuba before you decided to bring in your Dutch friends, their Swedish pets, and finally coordinate your attacks with the godless USA, and their tremendously witty leaders.

 

The simple fact is that, despite the help our captains receive from God, and the prayers of the Little sisters of the Holy Mojito, we cannot defend against so many attacks, so many enemies at the same time, while more than 50% of our players are on holidays. There is a little song in Spain that says:

 

Vinieron los sarracenos / Here came the Saracens

Y nos molieron a palos / And they kicked our butts

Por que Dios ayuda a los malos / beacuse God helps the bad guys

Cuando son más que los buenos / When they are more than the good guys.

 

Your are taking all the fun from the game, so, go ahead and capture all of those empty ports, We hope our martello towers are giving you a fun time. Capitán Sánchez has explained it very clearly. You have to understand that the purpose of the game is to have fun, not submit and humiliate other factions. If you reduce Spain to one port, then we will have more time to attack your trade and green players from neutral ports, and we will be even more resolute not to make peace, it is a cultural thing, I can recommend you some books if you want to try to understand, but Don Quixote I think summarizes it.

 

By the way, I really like your "Letters to the King" and other videos. Do not bother about those comments questioning your neutrality. Neutrality is a myth, of course you see things from the point of view of a brit, and that is OK. I wish there was a counterpart to your videos on our faction.

 

I'm a diplomat by trade, and I see with interest all the conversations taking place. The main problem I perceive it that all diplomats, including ours, are being too ambitious, trying to negotiate as nations, when there is no way to control your players. We are not really navies, no admiralty, no high command... there is no law enforcement to punish those that break treaties. I personally will not stop attacking British in Jamaican waters, or Dutch in front of their capital, whatever you decide on the negotiating table, this is what the game is about.  You should focus on one or more minimum, simple agreements. Something easy to negotiate that we can all agree upon. I don´t want peace, we just want to keep having fun games. If you put in place a United Nations style system of peace treaties and blue helmets, the only way of having fun in the game will be to play as pirate.

 

For example, each nation has a number of ports that cannot be attacked, ten, fifteen or whatever, which can ensure the viability of their economies. The rest of ports and waters are open for conquest and PVP. That is a simple agreement, enforceable by all nations. simple and reasonable. If you want a buffer, go to war and conquer it, etc. At least, let us see that there is something we can agree upon, and enforce it. Once this minimum has been achieved, then we can move into more sophisticated diplomacy.

 

And to show my good will, and my desire for peace, of sorts, I am going to hold a vigil of prayer with the Little Sisters of the Holy Mojito, for 24 hours straight to pray so that God illuminates the minds of the astute and gifted diplomats of all nations, so they can bring some peace and put an end to all this misery and suffering. Here is my prayer for all of you, Urbi et Orbi.

 

Sancti Apostoli Petrus et Paulus: de quorum potestate et auctoritate confidimus, ipsi intercedant pro nobis ad Dominum. Amen.

Misereatur vestri omnipotens Deus; et dimissis omnibus peccatis vestris, perducat vos Iesus Christus ad vitam æternam.

Indulgentiam, absolutionem, et remissionem omnium peccatorum vestrorum, spatium veræ et fructuosae pœnitentiae, cor semper paenitens, et emendationem vitae, gratiam et consolationem Sancti Spiritus; et finalem perseverantiam in bonis operibus tribuat vobis omnipotens et misericors Dominus. Amen

Et benedictio Dei omnipotentis, Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti, descendat super vos et maneat semper. Amen.

and that is why they asked for the south of cuba, The cayman isles and Placer area to be not be attacked out side no problem if i have heard correctly. but unfortunaly the spanish are coming with ridiculous demands whilst it was only a talk to see what kind of peace/ limited war was possible nothing else

[Don Inocencio Botijo]

and that is why they asked for the south of cuba, The cayman isles and Placer area to be not be attacked out side no problem if i have heard correctly. but unfortunaly the spanish are coming with ridiculous demands whilst it was only a talk to see what kind of peace/ limited war was possible nothing else

I have to warn you, my son, that what I wrote is only the official position of the Metropolitan Archbishopric of Havana, embodied in me, its Archbishop, Inocencio Botijo. I ignore the position of our political leaders, representatives of our most Catholic King, may God bless them all.

I´m just a humble shepherd at the service of my flock, and I use this pulpit to share with you my personal reflections, all I can do is pray for God to illuminate all minds, even your Lutheran deviationist, schismatic, innovationist brains.

I suggest we let the diplomats do their diplomacy. Political negotiations cannot be conducted on stage posting recordings of the proceedings. That is completely naif.

 

The way these things work is :

 

- Factions chose their diplomats.

- These diplomats are accredited to the other factions.

- These diplomats are given minimum and maximum negotiation positions, all the non negotiable points (as few as possible), and then they do several rounds of negotiations, in secret, in consultation with their authorities, until they come up with a single agreed document. That document can be then published.

 

But, first of all, we must decide what we want. A peace treaty? a Truce?, Some minimum rules to protect playability and a minimum level of civilization and decency?

[Jeheil]

Brilliant. I for one have never been particularly religious...but I shall visit the Little Sister of the Mojito and ask for their guidance.

[Gooneybird]

Gentlemen,

 

Again, we stress the British nation did not demanded anything from the Spanish nation. There may have been loose exchanges of ideas but no bilateral treaties have been made. The unilaterally proclaimed bufferzone has been set to demonstrate good intentions by the British nation and to support and participate in a 'Gentlemens' war. As was announced; Inside the bufferzone the British nation will do all to defend it's territory. Outside the 'bufferzone', the British nation does not make territorial claims, will avoid the use of porttimers, seeks action in open world PvP/RvR and shows restraint to severely weakend enemy nations.

 

Best regards,

 

Gooneybird

Edited July 26, 2016 by Gooneybird

[CptEdwardKenway]

The thing is very simple. We can win to USA, we can win to Dutch and we can win to Britain. We don´t bother about three enemies, we can even fight various fronts and beat the three at the same time as we have demonstrated during weeks.

The only thing we can not face are 12 flags from three nations and a fourth nation screening in an interval of 3 hours. This is a game and is suppossed to be fun (yes, also for us) and not to be a job. Multinational zerg it is not a coalition of war, it is not a legit strategy. It is a sign of your frustration at not being able to beat us cleanly. For weeks you have attacked Santiago one day each, wear down us, until our people have started to get tired and our ships to be lower quality than yours. This is the key of your success, you are not Nelson.

But you will not win this war until we decide that we have been defeated and that will never happen.

We will not give your share of fun at our expense. We will adapt and find our fun elsewhere.

You can throw your offer in that dark hole of yours where the sun never dawns.

Oh really? Maybe you should have thought about this before you did the same with brits. Now you feel how britains felt for months and you start crying around just after such a short time?

For britain it was a job for a long time now it's up to you to work for the survival of you nation.

Oh and you can't fight 3 nations. You simply can't. If you could you wouldn't cry around and start loading your canons.

Edited July 26, 2016 by CptEdwardKenway

[CptEdwardKenway]

There are many things you don't notice.

[Grundgemunkey]

The thing is very simple. We can win to USA, we can win to Dutch and we can win to Britain. We don´t bother about three enemies, we can even fight various fronts and beat the three at the same time as we have demonstrated during weeks.

The only thing we can not face are 12 flags from three nations and a fourth nation screening in an interval of 3 hours. This is a game and is suppossed to be fun (yes, also for us) and not to be a job. Multinational zerg it is not a coalition of war, it is not a legit strategy. It is a sign of your frustration at not being able to beat us cleanly. For weeks you have attacked Santiago one day each, wear down us, until our people have started to get tired and our ships to be lower quality than yours. This is the key of your success, you are not Nelson.

But you will not win this war until we decide that we have been defeated and that will never happen.

We will not give your share of fun at our expense. We will adapt and find our fun elsewhere.

You can throw your offer in that dark hole of yours where the sun never dawns.

 

 running around the edge of the circle in a pb is not  winning  even if the br says so at the end of the timer ..all you have demonstrated is you are good at shooting sails and waiting for pb timer to wind down .. the only time ive seen the spanish fleet fight a proper battle they have lost most of their ships once outside Sant Iago and once inside Sant iago

[Don Inocencio Botijo]

Brilliant. I for one have never been particularly religious...but I shall visit the Little Sister of the Mojito and ask for their guidance.

 

You are welcome back to the bosom of the Holy Mother Church (and those of the Little Sisters of the Holy Mojito), whenever you want.

Of course you will have to renounce your hostile intent against His Catholic Majesty, the King of Spain, and abjure of your following of the anglican personal cult created by your lustful and lascivious so called King Henry. Those are the only two conditions.

I assure you the little sisters are worth it. Check this post where I presented some of them. And if you are really good, and make a nice, balanced video about how cool it is to embrace the Cross and become a Spanish Captain, I might even allow you to discipline some of the Little sisters in the cells of my Holy Inquisition offices.

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14851-te-deum-mass-to-celebrate-recent-victories-against-british-aggression/

[victor]

In this case, it is not politics. It is war.

 

 

c'mon, let's be serious: taking ports that you are sure that will not be defended anylonger by anyone is not war.

 

You can bully on the forums as much as you like, but also US must come (and I'm pretty sure your diplomats already have come) to the same conclusion of the Brits: reducing your enemies to the capital - when so many factions are part of your alliance - will either kill the game or break your coalition.

 

And if I was in the shoes of the Dutch or of the Swedes I will strongly push for the "Brit solution" or they may become in the future the next sacrificial victim on the altar of the hunger of conquest of the big fishes.

 

Are you understanding - finally - why Lord Vicious, even if he is perfectly aware he cannot stop you, nonetheless is pushing on the forum provoking each day US to conduct a total conquest war against Pirates and Spain?

Edited July 26, 2016 by victor

[Lytse Pier]

For emphasis,

 

And I'm starting to repeat myself here a bit, but: The war declaration was done. It holds true until further notice by decree of our council. As noted, the Dutch diplomatic corps is always available to discuss terms with the Spanish in unison with our allies.

 

Our contribution is to stabilize our allies holdings and positions, as well as containing the pirate threat. (and of course having good fights against very good opponents which the honourable Spanish captains have been giving time and time again).

 

We will recognize a strong call for stability from all who are involved and are weary of war, so do our allies. The token of declaring a unilateral measure by the British, and active participation of US diplomats in conversations are very willing gestures, not to be ignored, in my humble opinion. I strongly suggest a communicative way forward instead of turning away our heads in bitterness. 

 

Job 21:25 And another dies in the bitterness of his soul, and never eats with pleasure.

 

 

And to add to the wise words of his excellency, don Inocencio Botijo:

We are available to communicate, but not all-out on the forums. 

[Don Inocencio Botijo]

Me and few of my friends who recently revised our beliefs gathered a "small" donation for the Archbis... eee catholic church of Havana so their true servants can convi... eee pray with all their will for Spanish diplomats to accept such generous peace treaty. True faith knows no bounds.

My son, it gives me great pleasure to hear about your generous donation. I will match it gold piece by gold piece from the Archbishopric treasure (where, ultimately all the gold ends up). All for peace and the greater glory of Our Lord, Jesus.

 

For your information, here are the current tariffs for Church Services: (in gold pieces)

 

500  Ordinary Mass

2000 Five Ordinary mass

4000 Ten Ordinary Mass

20.000 One year of Ordinary Masses, all Sundays.

5.000 Te Deum Mass, ordinary.

25.000Te Deum Mass de luxe (with Little sisters of Mojito chorus of white voices).

5.000 Funeral Mass, ordinary.

15.000 Funeral Mass, extraordinary.

25.000 Te Deum Mass for the he occasion of a death (foreign kings, heretics, lutherans etc).

 

90.000 Auto de Fe, ordinary (up to five witches, gipsies, false converts, satanists, sodomites, etc) ALL INCLUDED

150.000 Auto de Fe, de luxe (10+ of the above plus non catholic captains captured by La Santa Hermandad, and Dutch traders, which smell really good when burned). ALL INCLUDED, very popular with the vulgo.

 

Holy pastry of the Sisters of the Holy Mojito 100 x box.

Spiritual counsel and prayers in the convent.

Normal: (1 sister, 2 hours) 5.000

De Luxe (2 sisters, 2 hours) 20.000

Underground (discipline room, 5 hours) 40.000

 

I want to inform all of you that this money is used tor the greatest glory of our Lord and his Holy Mother Church, sustaining the Convent of the Little sisters of the Holy Mojito, my courageous Santa Hermandad Navy, the Archbishopric Plantations and my missions of industrious, laborious and devoted local Indians. A few pieces of gold are also used to frugally sustain myself, your Archbishop, and the servants, guards, gardeners, maids and other service personnel of the Archbishopric Palace, as well as the Holy Inquisition offices and cells, located in the basement of the Palace. All for the greater glory of our Holy Mother Church and our most Catholic King. Amen

Edited July 26, 2016 by Don Inocencio Botillo

[Chimera]

Am I crying? First notice I have.

Yes! Our Marine scientists have noticed that the water level has raised around the islands of Jamaica since the Spanish nation has been pushed back. At the same time they recorded a severe rise in the level of salt in the know so called "ocean of Tears".

[Don Inocencio Botijo]

Yes! Our Marine scientists have noticed that the water level has raised around the islands of Jamaica since the Spanish nation has been pushed back. At the same time they recorded a severe rise in the level of salt in the know so called "ocean of Tears".

 

Of course! our Spanish scientist and oceanographers themselves discovered significant levels of shit and pee, and dirty underpants floating in the same waters around Jamaica, not so long ago, coinciding when the Spanish Nation was "pushing forward" (using your own words). Funny how these phenomenons manifest themselves in times of turmoil.

 

Perhaps it´s the seven plagues once again. I hope God forbids the British Nation and their little companions for their trespassings, lest Egypt happen once again upon your heads.

[Alvar Fañez de Minaya]

Yes! Our Marine scientists have noticed that the water level has raised around the islands of Jamaica since the Spanish nation has been pushed back. At the same time they recorded a severe rise in the level of salt in the know so called "ocean of Tears".

 

Just as aclaration........ You have the same chance to see us cry, as we surrender ...... Keep trying .....   

[victor]

Yes! Our Marine scientists have noticed that the water level has raised around the islands of Jamaica since the Spanish nation has been pushed back. At the same time they recorded a severe rise in the level of salt in the know so called "ocean of Tears".

 

Such declarations make me suppose that, rather, your marine scientists have been studying too much the process of distillation of the "rum agricole" with good results in terms of increase of its alcohol rate.

Edited July 26, 2016 by victor

[Alado]

 

At the same time they recorded a severe rise in the level of salt in the know so called "ocean of Tears".

yes, it is because the amount of blood , tears and British frustration for so many months have lost so much , that the ocean currents are carrying out there.