Nobody that I talked to about it likes the 2 minute timer to enter PvP battles:

[Skully]

your pole dumb because you are asking a rhetorical question where there is no other option other than yes or no on a 2 minute timer.  How about asking if people want 2 minute, 3, 4 or 5 minute battle timers.  

Hahahaha, seriously, please stop. I'll let other people judge your intelligence based on your logic of evaluating a majority vote.

 

Should the mods lock this thread? Or just keep it going for laugh and giggles? 

Edited June 18, 2016 by Skully

[z4ys]

If your friends can't help you because the battle is closed, then you simply sailed alone or they were way downwind. If you get ganked while leaving a port, then better look around and don't sail straight away.

Like i said before, the timer is really good now. The biggest problems that could occur are made by yourself like mentioned above. In the last few weeks I saw so many traders leaving ports only looking in the direction they want to sail so it was really easy to chase them unseen. Furthermore most people don't look behind them then enter a mission and be surprised when someone joins there mission. Just happend today I chased someone for 3mins would never be able to get him with my slow ship and he joined his mission.....

At the moment timer problems are selfmade

[Cecil Selous]

Right, because you support ganking.  I get it, you want you and your buddies to just sail around finding the lone player and ruin his day by ganking him.  I personally dont find fighting 2 Constitutions and 2 Santisimas in my Bellona particularly fun and yes that happened to me, and I lost my Bellona, and by the way, the 2 santies and 1 of the connies waited in the free port before popping out to gank me.  I was not even planning on engaging the 1 visible constitution

 

This was not an issue prior to the 2 minute battle timer patch.  Those traders and lone players you are indiscriminately ganking, are losing ships they cannot afford to lose.  That lone player whos constitution, or trinc you capped in a 5v1, now has no ship to play the game to participate in port battles, so he quits.  Congratulations!  another player quits the game so you can go around ganking players indiscriminately doing their own thing.  The 2 minute timer encourages this behavior.  

 

Wrong, I am usually sailing alone and I am not in a clan. And if I see 1 enemy Constitution in front of a free port I am very careful, because this smells like a gank/bait even against the wind. I just became aware of the fact that I get ganked by an unfair number of enemies far less since the implementation of a 2 min timer because I see them earlier.

 If they still manage to catch me, ok, bad for me.

 

I can get used to the idea of max. 3 min, because the new joining zones can artificially increase the distance to join. Maybe even 110 sec instead of 120 sec of not joining a battle after leaving a port. But no invisibility and 5 min timers. 

Edited June 18, 2016 by Cecil Selous

[Yar Matey]

Me looks at votes on http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14536-to-gank-or-be-ganked-that-is-the-question/.

 

Gasp! You are right, we have a fantastic game that a minority of people try to break with continous complaints.

 

ROFL ... oh man ... ROFL ... no no, please stop, please ... ROFL ... my belly hurts ... ROFL

 

Your pole is rhetorical because you offer no other options other than yes or no to 30 second timer and 2 min to join.  The majority of players support a timer, so when you phrase the question in a yes or no fashion, everyone will choose yes.  This makes it a rhetorical, because the obvious outcome will always be yes to any question pertaining to a timer on battles.  The real question is where is the middle ground?  Some say 5 minutes is too long, but there is also 3 and 4 min timers as well.  

 

I personally think the 30 second no attack is worse because it gives people leaving ports and battles an unfair disadvantage.  But you never asked that question either.  

Edited June 18, 2016 by Ultravis

[fox2run]

I can just say that battles where bigger and where more available when the timers where longer. It may not have been correct in a simulated world (the time travel discussion) but it was more fun and easier to find a battle. Besides it would have been possible to meet reinforcements out of sight... 

 

Since the 2 min have been introduced, the player based has diminished. 

 

But in the forums are a lot of whiners and in a democratic project, the loudest voice usually wins. ;-)

[Nyurtle]

3:30  MIn join timer and reduce the can't join battles timer from when you leave port to 30 seconds instead of 90

[JimmyTheDeath]

Because I love this game, but stupid things like the 2 minute timers and 30 seconds until you can be attacked is ruining the game.  I am sorry you are too short sighted to see this.  We have a fantastic game that is being broken with a minority of people complaining about mechanics that were fine and never should have been changed.

 

I agree, my suggestion for a solution aginst PUNK ASS GANKING, is thusly.....  attackers have 2 min to get in there attack of another player whilst the defending team gets 5 min to get there defenders or support in to the battle, This would at least give people a chance to help out a new player get in to a battle after leaving a port , it would also push the battles a little further away from the ports especially free ports because the defenders would always be able to out number the attackers THIS WOULD TOTALLY FIX THE BAD GAMING TACTICS CURRENT BEING USED AND ALSO ALLOW A DEFENDING TEAM TO COMPLEATY KILL CAPTURE AND STOP THE BAD BEHAVIOR AND CAUSE FOR MORE TACTICS WHEN USED IN PVP. Please take my words in to consideration and try this NEW WAY, thank you very much for reading my words 

 

Jimmy The Death

see you on the seas

[Domox]

How about making ports show how many players (ships) are in them? Then players will be able to see (much like reality) if there's people laying in harbor waiting, and to get around players logging off and laying in wait, show the total number of players that would currently be there if they all were online. Much like counting masts in a harbor, if there's a ship sitting there it can come out and get you. Players will soon essentially memorize port populations (like sailors learn ports) and know when it's more full than normal and things are afoot...

 

I really do think all these fictional timers/barriers in the game make for a worse experience. Hmmm well I know there's a battle here but there's this magical cloak up that prevents me from seeing/interfering/hearing it. Oh and I can't see them once they leave. How mystical.

 

Another point, it feels like no one ever gets aided or saved in this game because no one seems to ever fight when it's 'fair' (or even equal). It's either a gank or pretty severe outclassing with the rest being flights, and the outcomes are predetermined from the get go (besides duration) much of this due to the fact that once a battle starts it'll continue with impunity regardless of the situation outside (people sitting outside the magical battle bubble), and our fairly small 2minute vision range.

 

I honestly am not sure what would satisfy all parties, and if it's not possible I'd argue in favor of no barriers and artificial timers to combat. (Similar to early days if I recall?)

 

Another thing that I'd be keen to see is don't allow fleeing unless they're out of gun range, and if someone has escaped, place them well outside the engagement distance and put everyone back into the OW according to where they were when they left...

Edited June 18, 2016 by Domox

[Cecil Selous]

How about making ports show how many players (ships) are in them? Then players will be able to see (much like reality) if there's people laying in harbor waiting, and to get around players logging off and laying in wait, show the total number of players that would currently be there if they all were online. Much like counting masts in a harbor, if there's a ship sitting there it can come out and get you. Players will soon essentially memorize port populations (like sailors learn ports) and know when it's more full than normal and things are afoot...

 

 

Kinda like that. Maybe not the total exact number but a very good estimate (many masts can be confusing ) Nation should also be visible since the flags should be hoisted.

 

 

 

I really do think all these fictional timers/barriers in the game make for a worse experience. Hmmm well I know there's a battle here but there's this magical cloak up that prevents me from seeing/interfering/hearing it. Oh and I can't see them once they leave. How mystical.

 

About not seeing the battle: Well time-wise, the battle mostly already ended when you arrive at the scene (of course it is still going). It's hard to make a consens between instance and OW. Without the invisibility timer now we can see them when they leave but most times they just don't leave the post battle screen and as long as they don't have to it is their right to do so. Do we want a timer on the post battle screen? How long should it be etc etc. 

But do we want no battle-join-timers. In the worst case you have to constantly fight new opponents, although they should spawn far behind with a great chance for you to escape. But what if you just captured a ship and suddenly a new enemy joins? Or you get ganked the hell out of you.

 

 

Another point, it feels like no one ever gets aided or saved in this game because no one seems to ever fight when it's 'fair' (or even equal). It's either a gank or pretty severe outclassing with the rest being flights, and the outcomes are predetermined from the get go (besides duration) much of this due to the fact that once a battle starts it'll continue with impunity regardless of the situation outside (people sitting outside the magical battle bubble), and our fairly small 2minute vision range.

 

That's the main problem for me. Most don't want it fair. I once attacked a rattlesnake with my rattlesnake and he ran right from the start. I also quite don't like what happens when a revenge fleet gathers around an ongoing battle. After it ends the former gankers get jumped by all ships around them. It would be ok if an equal number of ships or slightly more would do it but most times it is everybody. But this is the behaviour of the players and to prevent that you need more artifical rules.I think we need rules but as less as possible.

 

 

 

Another thing that I'd be keen to see is don't allow fleeing unless they're out of gun range, and if someone has escaped, place them well outside the engagement distance and put everyone back into the OW according to where they were when they left...

 

The first part is debatable. I think a damage threshold could also help. The second suggestion is good and I support it. This would prevent constant chasing and starting new battles which would have the same outcome and nobody gains anything. If you are way faster and manage to escape this should transfer to the OW.

[Cecil Selous]

I can just say that battles where bigger and where more available when the timers where longer. It may not have been correct in a simulated world (the time travel discussion) but it was more fun and easier to find a battle. Besides it would have been possible to meet reinforcements out of sight... 

 

Since the 2 min have been introduced, the player based has diminished. 

 

But in the forums are a lot of whiners and in a democratic project, the loudest voice usually wins. ;-)

 

Battles are as available as ever. Why does the timer influences if you start a battle or not? Large battles (fair, unfair, ganks etc) were more available yes, but not everybody wants large battles all the time. At least I don't want that. They are fun but everytime? Why is that considered as the ultimate gaming experience? 

 

I think the main reason the player base diminished was the removal of NPC capture. I believe the devs said something like that.

[Skully]

Your pole is rhetorical because you offer no other options other than yes or no to 30 second timer and 2 min to join.  The majority of players support a timer, so when you phrase the question in a yes or no fashion, everyone will choose yes.  This makes it a rhetorical, because the obvious outcome will always be yes to any question pertaining to a timer on battles.  The real question is where is the middle ground?  Some say 5 minutes is too long, but there is also 3 and 4 min timers as well.  

 

I personally think the 30 second no attack is worse because it gives people leaving ports and battles an unfair disadvantage.  But you never asked that question either.  

Ouch, your logic is infallible.

1. Do you like Red? Yes or No?

Ah crock, you like Blue. But since everybody likes a color, they choose yes. So we'll never see blue, because the majority has chosen red.

Keep'em coming Ultravis.

[Skully]

How about making ports show how many players (ships) are in them? Then players will be able to see (much like reality) if there's people laying in harbor waiting, and to get around players logging off and laying in wait, show the total number of players that would currently be there if they all were online. Much like counting masts in a harbor, if there's a ship sitting there it can come out and get you. Players will soon essentially memorize port populations (like sailors learn ports) and know when it's more full than normal and things are afoot...

It already works that, folks are undocked to be able to join a battle and thus visible.

[Skully]

Stop thinking about the individual ships and start thinking about the bigger picture. Did they have an advantage we could not bring? No.

 

We lost Ruatan, because I was ganking a lone Mercury and thus stuck in the timewarp.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14676-pvp1-june-the-british-honduras-campaign-pirate-perspective/?p=272479

 

Bloody crock, I should have whined until I got the invisible leave battle for free with extra speed mechanic.

 

PS. I still want to have that craft-able Exceptional Outboard Motor!

Edited June 18, 2016 by Skully

[CaptVonGunn]

No, there needs to be some timer, I think 10 minutes is more reasonable. Could someone explain to me the problem people had with 5 minute timers? I don't get how it went from 5 to 2 minutes. What was their argument?

As long as for every min you spawn further and further away from teh fight

[Neptune]

Ever notice the anti-gank crowd are a big collection of solo non-team players? Maybe in an RvR game that aren't the players we really want to cater to. Just saying.

 

I didn't want to really respond to this but I had too, not every group & guild wants every fight to be a lopsided gank for their side, that's quite untrue. Some guilds/groups would rather leave some of the group to go find another battle so it's not lopsided for their side and the battle will actually be somewhat skill based instead of boring seal clubbing.

 

Also I will fight to the death for 2 minute timers, those who fail to plan ahead before battle will be the only ones who suffer. If you leave port and set sail before the rest of your group does then why would you expect them to magically undock, set sail in 1 click and somehow find out that a battle is taking place far away from the port, I'm sure that is not realistic. Captains would of never known if a ship got attacked back then, they didn't have teamspeak or in-game chat. People need to stay in groups, and not sail so far ahead so that the rest of the group can't catch up or be in port. Plan ahead. If you are a organized fleet/group, the 2 minutes timers are a blessing.

 

I group PvP daily, with 3-10 people. Theirs absolutely no problem with this timer if you are organized, plan ahead & stay grouped. The only people this timer is hurting is the unorganized people who don't plan ahead and get angry when their freinds aren't there to help them because they sailed to far ahead, or left port before the group was ready to go.

Edited June 19, 2016 by masterjedi

[Yar Matey]

I didn't want to really respond to this but I had too, not every group & guild wants every fight to be a lopsided gank for their side, that's quite untrue. Some guilds/groups would rather leave some of the group to go find another battle so it's not lopsided for their side and the battle will actually be somewhat skill based instead of boring seal clubbing.

 

Also I will fight to the death for 2 minute timers, those who fail to plan ahead before battle will be the only ones who suffer. If you leave port and set sail before the rest of your group does then why would you expect them to magically undock, set sail in 1 click and somehow find out that a battle is taking place far away from the port, I'm sure that is not realistic. Captains would of never known if a ship got attacked back then, they didn't have teamspeak or in-game chat. People need to stay in groups, and not sail so far ahead so that the rest of the group can't catch up or be in port. Plan ahead. If you are a organized fleet/group, the 2 minutes timers are a blessing.

 

I group PvP daily, with 3-10 people. Theirs absolutely no problem with this timer if you are organized, plan ahead & stay grouped. The only people this timer is hurting is the unorganized people who don't plan ahead and get angry when their freinds aren't there to help them because they sailed to far ahead, or left port before the group was ready to go.

 

No, whats ridiculous, is you leaving a port where there are many friendly ships docked up in port, then being pulled into combat by a few enemies right outside the port, and all those friendly ships not being able to get into the battle while you lose your ship in a grossly outmatched fight of you verses 4-5 other ships.  This has become the reality of PvP at the moment.  If you engage players near their region capital, you deserve to lose because 10 other enemy ships joined the battle.

 

While you fight to the death in support of a really dumb mechanic, the player base continues to decline.  Maybe the majority of the player base like the big battles that become of battles people start trying to kill a lone player right outside a port.  

[Skully]

No, whats ridiculous, is you leaving a port where there are many friendly ships docked up in port, then being pulled into combat by a few enemies right outside the port, and all those friendly ships not being able to get into the battle while you lose your ship in a grossly outmatched fight of you verses 4-5 other ships.  This has become the reality of PvP at the moment.  If you engage players near their region capital, you deserve to lose because 10 other enemy ships joined the battle.

 

While you fight to the death in support of a really dumb mechanic, the player base continues to decline.  Maybe the majority of the player base like the big battles that become of battles people start trying to kill a lone player right outside a port.  

No, whats ridiculous, is you leaving a port alone where there are many friendly ships docked up in port, then being pulled into combat by a few enemies right outside the port, and all those friendly ships not being able to get into the battle while you lose your ship in a grossly outmatched fight of you verses 4-5 other ships.  This has become the reality of PvP at the moment.  If you sail alone anywhere, you deserve to lose because 10 other enemy ships joined the battle.

 

While you bitch to the death in support of a really dumb foresight, the player base continues to decline.  The majority of the player base like the smart battles (the rest was too garbled too make anything sensible of it).

[ajffighter86]

Smaller nations tend to have to resort to hit-and-run raids on shipping of larger nations. It's really the only way to be any way effective. Unlimited timers, even the 5 minute timer, made this nearly impossible to achieve. If you're a lone pirate trying to hit traders in waters that your enemy believes to be relatively safe (in other words, trying to play the game like a real pirate), it honestly sucked to have players to be able to call up a whole fleet every time you tried to attack something. If we are going to extend timers, we might as well bring back the ability to instantly call up a fleet of AI ships every time you are attacked. Raiding shipping lanes will again become an impossibility.

 

If you are backed into a corner and have to resort to guerrilla style warfare, because your nation does not have enough people to fill a 25-ship fleet, you WANT there to be shorter timers. A longer timer tended to always give the advantage to factions that were able to bring the most ships to a battle.

 

That is why timers were reduced.

Edited June 19, 2016 by ajffighter86

[CeltiberoCaesar]

The 2 min timer is the less bad thing. It was implemented when the british start complaining about what they had been doing for months. This is ganking using the reconect cheat, wait in the grey screen and jump from the port.

So... probably wont br changes until something else is implemented to avoid such cheating/exploit/dishoronable behaviour.

Edited June 20, 2016 by CeltiberoCaesar

[Thonys]

or make it 2 minutes timer close at port (2 minute border)   (just like capital reinforcement)

 

and 3 minutes timer  at 3 min sailing  minutes from port entrance / reinforcement border in OW

[CaptVonGunn]

Every port needs smaller version of the Capital green zones.. Say maybe 20% of the size... No attacks inside it... to simulate the fact that you start a fight INSIDE someones port the Harbor defenses will sink YOU.. Period.

[Mrdoomed]

Every port needs smaller version of the Capital green zones.. Say maybe 20% of the size... No attacks inside it... to simulate the fact that you start a fight INSIDE someones port the Harbor defenses will sink YOU.. Period.

This is a great idea. Ports are so numerous and close together i can finally avoid all pvp in a pvp server.

+1

[The Spud]

It has its pro's and con's in my opinion. Gankers running fast boarding ships who target lone targets, are now prety sure there will be no friendlies popping up. So they only need to get close board and it is a win.On the 5 minute mark however, the gankers run  bigger risk as 5 minutes give the gankee plenty of time to rally all who is nearby. And even if the numbers are even then, boarding ships will usualy not be equiped as good as a full on live oak warship. So basicaly now it is in favour of the full on boarding gankers a bit more.

 

But if we change the battle timer to 5, we would have to change the no enter battle timer to five minutes, to prevent people popping out of port to join an ongoing battle. At the time I think it gives less disadvantages then the 5 minute mark. Try to run in tight groups between places so the 2 minute timers don't matter.

[Mrdoomed]

It has its pro's and con's in my opinion. Gankers running fast boarding ships who target lone targets, are now prety sure there will be no friendlies popping up. So they only need to get close board and it is a win.On the 5 minute mark however, the gankers run bigger risk as 5 minutes give the gankee plenty of time to rally all who is nearby. And even if the numbers are even then, boarding ships will usualy not be equiped as good as a full on live oak warship. So basicaly now it is in favour of the full on boarding gankers a bit more.

But if we change the battle timer to 5, we would have to change the no enter battle timer to five minutes, to prevent people popping out of port to join an ongoing battle. At the time I think it gives less disadvantages then the 5 minute mark. Try to run in tight groups between places so the 2 minute timers don't matter.

Exept its no longer those that are nearby, its all those online now. If a average battle takes even as little as 15 minutes that's real world 15 minutes and that is more than enough time for 30 or 40 or 90 or however many people are on toteleport to a nearby port and sit and wait to gangbang whem they are out of battle. A 5 minute timer will allow half those people to teleport within 5 minutes of battle.

So really no matter how well a hunter plans his attack he is always within range of the entire enemy nation and people whonhave been playing for longer than a few weeks usually have ports set along anywhere traders or lone ships could get jumped.

Bring back the days of ONLY NEARBY players getting into battle then 5 minutes would be so so ok but now its just an invitation for the nation to enter battle.