Hotfix 9.71

[JimDandy]

As testers we are obligated to reject reports that are simply confirmation bias at work.

 

The AI were not "wild" shooters like humans, they were predictably bad robot shooters that could be easily exploited using angles and relative motion, things that humans are better at dealing with due to predictive abilities.

 

your absolutely right ... but that's not really the issue. The issue is the fix!

 

If on a scale of 1 to 10 the pre-patch ai were at level 3 it would seem appropriate that level 4 would be the next level to test, correct?

Instead it feels like we have been catapulted to level 9 or 10!

That's the point people are trying to convey to you.

 

for what's it's worth I have never in the seven months that I've been playing NA encountered a human player in a battle that can shoot like the ai did in the battles I fought yesterday.

 

Right now I'm sick of talking & thinking about it do what you like and so will I.

[noniac]

me and some friends have been fighting battles with players and AI, and they have been GREAT FUN! Really tough close battles, where we have always won, (aside  from the times we lost) but always sustained heavy casualties in great fun close fights? Why are people complaining? The AI is much better now, but good it was too easy before, Respect the enemy!

 

Do people just want AI to be a carpet they walk over on the way to the next rank! Hoooray! ? I for one dont. I want the AI to be a good opponent in lieu of a human one, so I cant tell the difference between the 2!

mmmmmm.....AI is now better than a human player in ALL aspects.... I hope you get sunk 2 or 3 times when your friends are not online and then come back with a real opinion of the situation right now.

[VonVolks]

So fight weaker ships?

[noniac]

So fight weaker ships?

yes, im currently going for the 5000 exp mark but you should understand that guessing what my lvl is, TAKING LVL 1 MISSIONS as im doing right now is bumping the grind to the sky. Im sure you will feel a little angry if you were forced to fight cutters in your snow because anything bigger will sink you. A brig sank me this morning and believe me, i wasnt shooting the water. Dont say im a bad player.

 

the fact is that you should be able to take a mission of your level without problems, i consider im good at angling my ship but these AI are just too damn accurate Ive seen them hit my sides when im perpendicular to their side. Thats madness. As the no capture AI ship feature is. 

Edited April 14, 2016 by noniac

[NavalActionPlayer]

People used to complain about the AI being laser accurate.  In reality, they were very often shooting into the water or over the deck.  The latest patch brought their accuracy far more into line with the players, which means it "seems" like they can do more damage than you, but in reality, they can now do nearly the same damage as you.  Those 18lb balls should indeed do more damage - if you're hitting with all of them reliably.  In fact, hitting that Pickle with all 18's below the normal waterline and putting him on the opposite tack means you'll likely be done worrying about that pickle in short order.  I'll also note that everything pens everything at close range.  If you've closed yardarm to yardarm, those 6's are going to go right through you.

 

All things being equal, a Mercury should defeat a Snow (especially if you're sitting there trading broadsides with it) - it has nearly twice the planking to lose.  If you're going to attack a Mercury or a Navy Brig in a Snow, you'd be advised to understand your advantages versus those vessels and use them to their greatest degree if you're going to hope to beat them.  If you expect to be able to sit broadside on and trade iron, you're going to sink for sure.

 

The AI has the exact same guns you do.  Exactly, the, same.  They may aim them better than you do, but that's something that you need to work on.  

I have plenty of hours (1200 or more before the EA access release and god knows how many more since) under my belt and no newbie, so I don't think it is my accuracy that has changed. Equally, I respectfully disagree with the comment about being yardarm to yardarm. I am not. Even if I were then I would still expect 1) 18pdrs do more damage than 6pdrs, and 2) that my armour should stand up longer than a Pickle's.

 

Maybe we should all move into Pickles and take on AI Trincs at close range and see the results.....my betting is that the Pickle's shots will suddenly start to bounce off and the Trinc armour wont be scratched before we are sunk.

 

It's not whether the AI has the same guns that is the question but whether they have extra pen or damage....if they don't then it must be inhuman accuracy or....as many have reported...inhumanly extra fast reloading.

 

Whatever it is that is different, something has changed the balance a touch too far.  

 

Thank god I am not a newbie.....at least I stand some chance of causing damage to the AI and escaping afterwards.

Edited April 14, 2016 by NavalActionPlayer

[Dragonfire]

Well I remember when the ai had laser shooting ability and remember the negative comments and then they turned down the ability again.

 

It is to the point now I think its not so much their ability to hit you with better accuracy but the damage it now inflicts especially with leaks thrown in like it is now that we didn't have before when they could shoot so well at any angle or distance.

 

I had hoped to hit 3000 hours testing by this weekend but my frustration level is a little high atm so I guess it will have to wait lol.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Dragonfire

[Wigermo]

where did all the contraband traders or traders in general go? sailed the coast from Bensalem to Great Corn, and did not encounter one trader

[BallsOfSteel]

AI are much harder, 

no complaints just means you need to be on the ball.

[ZenTex]

Mates...it's like the old tried and true saying..."If it's Not broke...Don't fix it..." 

 

I have to disagree here.

It was broken, AI shooting was horrible.

 

The patch however did break it, the AI now are infallable shooters with laserlike accuracy, what's more, they seem to be equipped with modern artillery, they hit hard, very hard.

I'd expect i'd be able to outdamage an ai ship easily at close range when I'm equipped with fast firing high damage carronades vs their slow firing lower damage long cannons, but this is barely the case. Even when I don't miss any shots.

Penetration seems to be another thing, AI shots seem to penetrate far far more.

 

Bottom line, AI was a bit too easy before, now they're far too hard, especially in flag captain missions where you'll face a Bellona or 2 ingermanlands. Near impossible to solo, especially in my constitution. Since 3rd rates are ultra rare now i had to go back grinding lvl 7 missions which are barely worth the trouble in earnings of both gold and XP.

[VonVolks]

 i wasnt shooting the water. Dont say im a bad player.

 

the fact is that you should be able to take a mission of your level without problems, 

 

OK.

1. I am not saying  you are a bad player. You are a new player however, so thats one thing. Also dont forget as a new player you can hire the fleet AI to help you a bit at the lower level.

 

2. Also since when should fighting something your own level be "no problem"?? It should very much be a problem, and 50% of the time you could lose until you get really good, Why should the fact you are  aplayer make YOUR ship somehow magically better than an equivalent ship. If you PVP a player in the same ship, you wouldn't just expect a win. You have to earn it.  AI should be able to replace a player enemy so you have a good fight regardless..

[Lennyo]

If your Connie is live oak, it should have over 7k hit points per side. Your actual armor is thicker too.

[Patrox]

IA is to much strong

I made this morning with my Frigate a fight against a Snow. in a mission lvl 101 while  I'm 3 lvl above.

After 10mn  I break the fight  on fire an with more damage then I can do on the snow !!

nearly all is bullet arrived directly to my hull and mage very big damage

 

So it's now impossible to make a mission alone.

 

I don't understood why the gameplay had been modify in this way.

 

I was very fan of this game, but now it's to mutch difficult to play.

[karotte]

I agree with you guys, that something is broken. But maybe it is not the AI gunners, or canons, maybe it is the player armor that gets a debuff vs an AI, or the AI armor gets a buff (maybe a mod is not working correctly, cause the AI gets loads of them (Marines, hammoks, etc.).

I have monitored the damage in a broadside fight with my trinc vs an AI one. The AI didn`t made nearly the same damage each broadside than me ca. 20-30 % less damage, but the armor of my exeptional, live oak, with extra planking, strengt, stiffness dropped the same hight like the one from the AI. OK, I had ca. 10 % as the AI hits the 0%, but this is not matching with the mutch higher dps I have done.

I hope that the AI will get reworked to an AI not using buffs, or all mods together.

Jack Tar "Karotte"

[Smiling Jack]

Well just logged off, notice that the server is going down for some maintaince, about an hour or more, so you better head to a safe port and tie up mates. I will say this however, was able to join an AI fleet battle which was fun because you live bit longer! Well, perhaps it's just a wait and see where this issue goes, it's nice to see all of you engaged in the discussion, shows that all of us care about the game and its future development .

[William Livingston Alden]

when your trinco gets nearly killed by a pickle and a brig, then something is wrong. i will accept that according to their rank a AI is fighting, but i think we can not accept that every smaller vessel is now a threat for bigger ships in term of penetration, accuracy, leaking, ram and other things.

[Smiling Jack]

As an off note I must say that the graphics in Naval Action are simply stunning! It's great to sometimes just stand off a bit and watch the fleets engage each other . Well done developers on the graphics engine! Truly brings the game to life.

[LeBoiteux]

I like current AI : more challenging than before but far from being insurmountable. 

 

Those who think it too hard must take time to test it, get used to it and learn how to defeat it.

We're testers.

Let take this time to figure out what's wrong or what's right in the latest changes. There's no hurry.

 

The argument "before I could do that, now I can't. So fix it !" is not that valid as AI is indeed a bit more challenging.

[Otsego]

Hotfix: Don't do PvE

[Smiling Jack]

Don't know about that friend, PvE is perfect for learning how to play the game, how to learn to fight your ship. Granted, PvP is where the action is however it would be a fools error for a new captain to try and tangle in those seas mate. Once you have some sailing time under your belt from PvE then it's time to venture out and tangle with the beasties...

[LeBoiteux]

Just to put into perspective the current debate about AI, the reality is that before patch :

Statistically people don't lose ships much on the pve servers.

 

And now :

there are no bonuses to ai - they use the same cannons as you
the glaring bugs in their shooting were fixed
+ they shoot into water less than before
+ they stay closer and shoot less at ricocheting angles

[Tay-uk]

It seems the veteran players generally like the new AI situation, and I get that. (Have had a couple of great fleet battles with the clan since patch myself).

But cast your mind back to when you 1st started, how great it felt to sink your 1st ship in a mission. Now, new players are put against an opponent that is highly likely to sink them each and every time they do a mission, they aren't going to get that feeling, not without a lot of luck.

So maybe, a compromise, as the AI ship size increases, its accuracy or whatever it is that's changed is increased. So a cutter/lynx is as "easy" to sink as it was pre-patch, then snows, a bit harder etc. until we get to the 1st rate ships where the veterans can get their challenging fix.

 

All the above is irrelevant if these changes are exactly what the devs intended, but I do feel that new players will be put off by the vertical line of AI difficulty from day 1, maybe they won't stay to see day 2. To get hooked on a game, you 1st need to feel that your achieving something.

Its a fine balance between to easy and too hard, but that's the dev's job. And fortunately for them, they have all these good people on this forum telling them

 

P.S. Where are all the Traders and enemy OW Fleets?   Only saw 1 trader in 4 hours of playing yesterday, and that was a cutter. Again new players need traders to cap!!

[Mr. Starbuck]

I like current AI : more challenging than before but far from being insurmountable. 

 

Those who think it too hard must take time to test it, get used to it and learn how to defeat it.

We're testers.

Let take this time to figure out what's wrong or what's right in the latest changes. There's no hurry.

 

The argument "before I could do that, now I can't. So fix it !" is not that valid as AI is indeed a bit more challenging.

I'd agree with the aspect that being forced to adapt to new challenges is what will keep us hooked and separate from dumb bots automatically repeating boring tasks. 

 

Furthermore I think no one's (well nearly none) disagreeing with tha fact that we are constantly testing an Early Access version.

 

BUT that's not the point.

 

Testing means that we have to give feedback, esp. feedback on game changes that are regarded as highly suspicious by most of the testers that have spoken out in this thread.

 

To sum it up: challenge is fine and needed, but the current situation is not challenging but stinking.

 

Because -at least for me- : being mauled by much smaller and weaker AI ships in plain and simple CQC broadside duels where accuracy counts the least is ruining the feel of immersion and fun I always experienced in NA.

 

If we have a general way how AI behaviour, tactics and efficiency should evolve then:

 

• make them a menace if in a superior ship, challenge on parity and at most annoying if in a inferior vessel. Strenght of smaller vessels must be rooted in tactics using their speed and agility not laser guided HE ammunitions.
• Also teach the AI to use a porper line of battle and formation cohesion in 4th rates+, teach them how to keep their distance and correct use of their position relative to wind direction.
• Just fiddling around with hit % boni and hidden stats to turn them into terminators will frustrate players.

 

There's too much damage done at the moment. Battles felt long and epic before. Now it's just bang-bang-50%down-80 crew dead-leak-sunk.

 

At least further fine tuning is in dire need!

 

Apart from that: epic patch and good work. Keep it up devs, I still love your game 

Edited April 15, 2016 by Mr. Starbuck

[Alado]

• Battles felt long and epic before. Now it's just bang-bang-50%down-80 crew dead-leak-sunk

   

  +1

Edited April 15, 2016 by Alado

[LeBoiteux]

I'd agree with the aspect that being forced to adapt to new challenges is what will keep us hooked and separate from dumb bots automatically repeating boring tasks. 

 

Furthermore I think no one's (well nearly none) disagreeing with tha fact that we are constantly testing an Early Access version.

 

BUT that's not the point.

 

Testing means that we have to give feedback, esp. feedback on game changes that are regarded as highly suspicious by most of the testers that have spoken out in this thread.

 

To sum it up: challenge is fine and needed, but the current situation is not challenging but stinking.

 

Because -at least for me- : being mauled by much smaller and weaker AI ships in plain and simple CQC broadside duels where accuracy counts the least is ruining the feel of immersion and fun I always experienced in NA.

 

If we have a general way how AI behaviour, tactics and efficiency should evolve then:

 

• make them a menace if in a superior ship, challenge on parity and at most annoying if in a inferior vessel. Strenght of smaller vessels must be rooted in tactics using their speed and agility not laser guided HE ammunitions.
• Also teach the AI to use a porper line of battle and formation cohesion in 4th rates+, teach them how to keep their distance and correct use of their position relative to wind direction.
• Just fiddling around with hit % boni and hidden stats to turn them into terminators will frustrate players.

 

There's too much damage done at the moment. Battles felt long and epic before. Now it's just bang-bang-50%down-80 crew dead-leak-sunk.

 

At least further fine tuning is in dire need!

 

Apart from that: epic patch and good work. Keep it up devs, I still love your game 

 

Interesting feedback.

 

However, there are lots of pvpers with just a bit of experience who could do  much more damage than the current AI in much smaller vessels...

Before current patch, PvEers didn't lose much ships. That means AI was too easy. Now AI isn't "laser-guided". It just aims correctly.

 

Now all depends on player's experience and skills. NA is a skilled-based game that needs time to be mastered.

I think the AI of OW ships should be the smartest and hardest possible, 

BUT newcomers and casual gamers should also have access to easier missions in order to learn or just for relaxing.

 

Because as testers, we need to think of the experience of the newcomers and that of more skilled players who could get bored in the "long" run.

 

Just my opinion.

[BusterGut]

We now need a fix on our cannons, I for one am fed up with the scattergun method