Short announcement on the 1.5x BR reinforcement limit

[ThrottleFox]

Why weren't you sailing next to your friend?

 

I was, on PvE you dont get pulled into battle, you need to manually join

[Magnum]

I'll bet IIBuxy is not real impressed with the anti ganking measures here.

 

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

He was sailing a Santissima by himself, and did so in a way that all of those ships could get into the circle and attack.  Pretty foolish move, and the screen has nothing to do with the mechanic discussed in this thread.  Without context (how did this battle shape up, who was doing what and where), it's pretty worthless really.  He could have been sitting AFK outside of a port allowing everyone to simply sail up and attack him en force.

 

1.5BR is to prevent a massive pile-on from everyone that is in the area, but not in formation.  As stated multiple times, it is not intended to prevent a closely packed enemy from all getting into the battle.

[Jerome]

We had three Renomees chasing a Trinc, one of the Renomees was not in the circle for the tagged.  He logged off in disgust; after the battle was over so did another player.  This mechanic is bunk. 

 

The one minute timer is enough to prevent late comers from joining but still allowing a group to get all of its members in.

 

Instant battles, PBs, and duel instances are all available for people that want "fair" pvp.  Leave open world to be open world. 

 

Personally, this rule and the mentality behind it is going to find me not logging in for this game.  We had a lot of fun sailing around as group, ganking, avoiding ganks, and getting some very good straight up fights with no mechanic hand holding.  Used to anyway....

[Neptune]

We had three Renomees chasing a Trinc, one of the Renomees was not in the circle for the tagged.  He logged off in disgust; after the battle was over so did another player.  This mechanic is bunk. 

 

The tagging circle is huge, if you failed to stay together and all didn't get in the battle then that's what happens. If you want to gank someone make sure nobody in your group gets ahead of eachother. 1.5X is not a fair fight, you can still outnumber your enemy. And if you want to gank and get everyone in your group into a battle, stay organized. This mechanic is great so far, lots of fun PvP even if one side does outnumber you, it's not always lopsided making the battle pointless and boring.

 

[KuroNyra]

He was sailing a Santissima by himself, and did so in a way that all of those ships could get into the circle and attack.  Pretty foolish move, and the screen has nothing to do with the mechanic discussed in this thread.  Without context (how did this battle shape up, who was doing what and where), it's pretty worthless really.  He could have been sitting AFK outside of a port allowing everyone to simply sail up and attack him en force.

 

1.5BR is to prevent a massive pile-on from everyone that is in the area, but not in formation.  As stated multiple times, it is not intended to prevent a closely packed enemy from all getting into the battle.

So basicly it is not intended to prevent the kind of Gank used by the players abusing it.

...

Really? I'm not even sur the Admin KNOW what is the gank that made people complaining. Sur it prevent a part of the gank. But not THE gank that was destructive for the game.

[Prater]

So basicly it is not intended to prevent the kind of Gank used by the players abusing it.

...

Really? I'm not even sur the Admin KNOW what is the gank that made people complaining. Sur it prevent a part of the gank. But not THE gank that was destructive for the game.

 

 

What it prevents is this:

An enemy squadron spread out across the horizon.  A tackler tackles an enemy ship.  They can't all jump on the single enemy ship, only some can.  If they all want to jump on the enemy ship, they all have to sail close together, which gives the enemy ship a greater chance of getting away, or at least into a fight he can manage better, instead of 10 enemies who are spread out so they can cover more sea.

[Quineloe]

We had three Renomees chasing a Trinc, one of the Renomees was not in the circle for the tagged.  He logged off in disgust; after the battle was over so did another player.  This mechanic is bunk. 

 

Already wanted to reply this in the thread you started, but it was closed

Renommee is 110 BR, Trinc is 200

Two Renommees are 220 BR, not 1.5 of 200 yet. Therefore you friend could have joined. Apparently he was on the other end of the map and by the time he arrived, the two minute timer was up. This was not a BR restriction issue.

 

Or the story is completely made up to make a case against the new mechanic.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Quineloe

[Random]

As I posted in another thread on this topic:

 

Today I was cruising in my trader in friendly Spanish waters surrounded by friendly Spanish cities and somewhat spread out, but still plentiful friendly Spanish captains. I came across 4 Sverige ships (who would have thought to find them at Mantua) and before I could find out if they are friendly or not they attacked me. I couldn't escape because one of them was in front of me and I was by the coast and by the city of Mantua. While I was putting up a valiant fight and almost ended up sinking a Reno (he had to escape to avoid sinking), a whole town of Mantua was watching the fight and the large group of friendly Spanish captains circling around waiting for the fight to be over. I don't know what exactly surrendering does, but I was told it would piss my attackers off, so I surrendered after I had barely any crew left and they were ready to board me. I continued to observe the fight as there was still an AI Trinco left in it. While Reno had to escape to avoid sinking and fell into the lap of the justice posse, the rest of my assailants remained in the fight to avoid their just punishment. Pray tell, what ganking problem was solved with the 2 minute timer? How much sense does it make to insist on the efficacy of the "visibility" issue when I was in the plain sight of my friendly city and could not be joined by my compatriots? So much for anti-ganking features... How about coming up with something that prevents people from hiding from fights rather than getting into them?

 

Suppose Spanish nation wanted to discourage gankers from attacking Spanish ships in Spanish territory. Why are they now precluded from administering a beatdown on actual gankers? Because now, to catch them coming out of the fight (after waiting for them to finally come out), Spanish captains have to spread out and keep an eye on where they pop out (especially if the gankers split up after coming out of the fight). Given the fact that Spanish captains are now spread out, they won't be able to all get into the initial attack circle and won't be able to join the fight and punish the gankers. So, who is benefited by this new anti-gank mechanic?

[JeeF]

I totally love Niels Terkildsen's idea. It could still work with a 1.5 br rule, if that's absolutely necessary, but I think this system would fix most of what the 1.5 br rule is trying to fix - and more.

 

While we're at it make the inner circle smaller to disallow defensive tags. If this system is implemented - with a 0 second reinforcement timer - I would be ok with not being able to use defensive tags because I would either still have a chance to flee inside the instance or would have been outplayed in the OW and would thus accept the gank. Also, getting defensive tagged out of a fair fight is so frustrating.

 

A simple and effective transition from ow to instances that make sense. PLEASE, DO IT.

[Bach]

The tagging circle is huge, if you failed to stay together and all didn't get in the battle then that's what happens. If you want to gank someone make sure nobody in your group gets ahead of eachother. 1.5X is not a fair fight, you can still outnumber your enemy. And if you want to gank and get everyone in your group into a battle, stay organized. This mechanic is great so far, lots of fun PvP even if one side does outnumber you, it's not always lopsided making the battle pointless and boring.

We get it. Your a cheer leader for the new 1.5 BR rule. But those of us actually testing it are finding plenty of bad side effects and instances when it just doesn't work as intended. It's not a great rule and if a player is telling you it's bad enough that he and others of his team may not play, put your personal angles aside and listen to them. Just telling them it's all their fault is no better than telling some ganked guy it's all his fault for getting ganked. There has to be a way to make everyone happy and achieve the goal. But this new rule in its current form isn't going to be it. Just let it go and let's find something better.

[Bach]

What it prevents is this:

An enemy squadron spread out across the horizon.  A tackler tackles an enemy ship.  They can't all jump on the single enemy ship, only some can.  If they all want to jump on the enemy ship, they all have to sail close together, which gives the enemy ship a greater chance of getting away, or at least into a fight he can manage better, instead of 10 enemies who are spread out so they can cover more sea.

I think that was the intent. In testing it we discovered we can use the positional aspect of the system to surround the enemy player inside the battle. Or at least put one player in front of them to keep them from running. So although the idea may be to give them a chance to get away, it can be manipulated to place one if your members in front of the target. Too many quirky side effects in the rules as they are in this patch.

[Sureshot]

BR system has been epic so far, lots of interesting fights with it. Hope it's here to stay. 

[The_Scipio]

I think we should allow no limite BR from Reinforcement ships in defender side but keep the BR 1.5 in attacker side, that will allow people to help their friends if they ve been attacked. Gankers usually attack in outnumber , not defending.

Second that, the defender may get reinforcements, and not be affected by the BR limit.

A groups of small ships can schred a lone large ship safely now due to BR limitations,

 

Tried it yesterday in my Trinc. Two snows remained at my stern shooting masts and sails, until all three masts where down.

 

Got tagged in a bay in a very bad position, with wind against me, once I reached open waters my sails where down to like 80% and no chance of running. Had a friend in a SOL who couldn't join due to BR limitations.

 

So this BR is not helping no one, other than small ships in gangs hitting larger ships.

The only way to counter such a thing is always to sail in groups keep your postion, then the whole groups will be dragged into battle.

[Quarios]

What it prevents is this:

An enemy squadron spread out across the horizon.  A tackler tackles an enemy ship.  ...

But isn't that exactly what they did in RL?

Edited April 16, 2016 by Quarios

[Bommel]

I don´t think there was such thing as tacklers in the age of sails.

[Dharus]

I don´t think there was such thing as tacklers in the age of sails.

Nor were there time space bubble battle instances, 2 min battle join timers, or battle fairness ratings either.

The rule doesn't reduce ganking as its goal but it does separate people from helping each other along with other things.

[Bommel]

I completely agree that the 1.5x BR doesn´t prevent ganking, but time compression in OW allowed players to "warp/overtake" a faster boat that is allready caught in battle, and devs tried this mechanic to prevent them  from doing that. It didn´t work as expected but still they are trying their best to give all of us a good experience.

So give them a break and let them figure out how to solve those issues. 

[Deadstuff]

Intresting update but probably won't change that much

[Balsafer]

People don't seem to understand how to deal with the new BR system.  Want to join a battle as a group stick close together back in that time period a battle fleet sailed together not seperate.  There were probably no scouting back then and no Tacklers.  Think about it would a frigatee attack a fotilla 100s of miles away from his fleet? The answer is no he would be sunk by the time his fleet arrives which is what this BR system I think is replicating.

[OTMatt]

People don't seem to understand how to deal with the new BR system. Want to join a battle as a group stick close together back in that time period a battle fleet sailed together not seperate. There were probably no scouting back then and no Tacklers. Think about it would a frigatee attack a fotilla 100s of miles away from his fleet? The answer is no he would be sunk by the time his fleet arrives which is what this BR system I think is replicating.

We do sail close but your idea of close is practically hugging each other while trying to stay in the circle of a moving enemy ship.

Being 10 seconds away from the circle does not make you a "distant scout." It just makes you the poor guy who did not turn fast enough with the rest of the group during the tag. That is a silly flaw in the game and it could be so much more forgiving than it is now.

[Dharus]

People don't seem to understand how to deal with the new BR system. Want to join a battle as a group stick close together back in that time period a battle fleet sailed together not seperate. There were probably no scouting back then and no Tacklers. Think about it would a frigatee attack a fotilla 100s of miles away from his fleet? The answer is no he would be sunk by the time his fleet arrives which is what this BR system I think is replicating.

There were scouts. It fell usually to smaller ships who could claw upwind better than rated ships. After all, you didn't really want to lose wind advantage by blindly sailing around. Scouts were also used to look into ports and pop away faster than any response. Fleets were spread out in huge areas (blockading of France for example) covering lots of miles. Smaller ships helped relay messages between squadrons.

Second, tackling is a gaming tactic. We don't sail in a permanent battle instance. If we did, tackling would be the same as historical combat...very long chases. Shoot at sails hoping for something to cripple the ship. Instead, tackling is to warp a player into an instance so that the slower folks can catchup. Unless you changed instancing (and development some good tech), tackling will exist.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Dharus

[Quarios]

I don´t think there was such thing as tacklers in the age of sails.

Aha so I guess the frigates scouting around the main fleet just didnt exist.

[Quarios]

...back in that time period a battle fleet sailed together not seperate.  There were probably no scouting back then and no Tacklers.  Think about it would a frigatee attack a fotilla 100s of miles away from his fleet?

To my knowledge they spread out over miles, especially when looking for enemies. The frigate would have signaled the main fleet and they would have closed in on it.

[Bommel]

A scout is not a tackler, a tackler prevents the enemy from leaving the fight.

So if you use a frigate to scout ahead to find the enemy you can do that ingame, but he will need to wait for his fleet to catch up before he starts the fight, or did those scouting frigates start the fight before its fleet catched up?

Edited April 16, 2016 by Bommel