Short announcement on the 1.5x BR reinforcement limit

[Thonys]

Simple:

 

- to join a ongoing battle you need to be outside the circle. You will spawn at distance relative to battle initial spawn.

 

- tag a opponent is the same as before. Only limitation is the tiny circle, you need to be out of it. It represents the minimum distance for relative spawn in battle.

 

No need for a phd, just half a brain and reading the FULL notes on the system.

 

oke, fine but...

 to close in the battle circle...????

 

and before that is see:

to far from the battle..

 

and then i see:

the battle is closed...

 

still need to use, more than half of my brain... and a phd..

 

​the mechanism needs much more clarity ..(without knowing the first /second/third book of enemy engagement )

 

tag timers in red to green ,distance to effective tag for example..and most of all seeing what is happening..(lets say tagged by hettwill for example)so you see what is happening

or the battle tag is full/filled by br (from a distance)

now, you have no clue what is going on ...

Edited April 18, 2016 by Thonys

[charognard666]

I'm sorry, but really, this thread is ridiculous. The actual mechanic work fine as any other mechanic tested or will be tested in future, the main problem is just nobody want to adapt to new mechanic, you are focusing on what you tell bad aspects, and don't adapt... In my clan we were disapointed by change, but we have simply change our playstyle, we don't tag a single surprise at 10 like before, we re making bigs ships groups or light ships groups, depending our target, we stay packed and all run fine. 

Concerning reinforcements, the new rules are greats and the tagging is now very important and tactic, you can cut escape vector of your target it's very fine.

An concerning big ship ganking, i'm sorry, but if you sail a bello/ pavel/ vicory alone into a ganking zone, our just alone, you must expect to be ganked and loose it, it will not be the BR fault, but only yours to sailing it alone.

Edited April 18, 2016 by charognard666

[Thonys]

I'm sorry, but really, this thread is ridiculous. The actual mechanic work fine as any other mechanic tested or will be tested in future, the main problem is just nobody want to adapt to new mechanic, you are focusing on what you tell bad aspects, and don't adapt... In my clan we were disapointed by change, but we have simply change our playstyle, we don't tag a single surprise at 10 like before, we re making bigs ships groups or light ships groups, depending our target, we stay packed and all run fine. 

Concerning reinforcements, the new rules are greats and the tagging is now very important and tactic, you can cut escape vector of your target it's very fine.

An concerning big ship ganking, i'm sorry, but if you sail a bello/ pavel/ vicory alone into a ganking zone, our just alone, you must expect to be ganked and loose it, it will not be the BR fault, but only yours to sailing it alone.

 

"ï m sorry but really this thread is ridiculous" 

shall i take you by the ears.... and walk the plank with you together...

 

oeps,,i'm sorry.... man overboard..

 

OT; well good for you and your clan ..

but for some of us pirates and scippers.... it needs to be said...

 

and adapting to my brain is a little hard....maty..

Edited April 18, 2016 by Thonys

[Sir Robert Calder]

If people want even PvP, let them join the blighted Small/Large battles, as that's what they're there for. There have been several good anti-gank suggestions in this thread as well as some important discussion in regards with making tagging less open to being abused (which is a far bigger problem in my opinion) and I highly recommend the developers due away with this 1.5x limitation nonsense soon. I'm fine with the developers tweaking with the battle join timer until we reach a compromise, but outside of that the limitations need to be stopped there.

 

If you don't like being ganked, don't play on a PvP server. It doesn't get much more simple than this.

[Thonys]

If people want even PvP, let them join the blighted Small/Large battles, as that's what they're there for. There have been several good anti-gank suggestions in this thread as well as some important discussion in regards with making tagging less open to being abused (which is a far bigger problem in my opinion) and I highly recommend the developers due away with this 1.5x limitation nonsense soon. I'm fine with the developers tweaking with the battle join timer until we reach a compromise, but outside of that the limitations need to be stopped there.

 

If you don't like being ganked, don't play on a PvP server. It doesn't get much more simple than this.

well i do believe it is not about doing this or doing that pvp/pve or abuse

 

but more about game development and game experience

thats what is the issue here

it needs more clarity from what is going on ,to take counter measure or evasive actions or whatever

(for example to give you a ideas if the BR isx 1.5 

how do you know whats your BR in a group .mostly you dont know 

you dont even know who jumps in a battle with you together because of the BR

i for certain dont know whats the BR of my group..its a big guess ,and that should not be the case in the first place..)

[Twig]

I'am a player who does both - single player missions when nobody else is availiable or its a matter of time / playing in small groups / joining side battles during port battles -

and i think the 1.5x mode is simply great because

 

- you can still attack a single enemy when you are in a close group

- you are somewhat protected from unfair situations which develop minutes *after* the beginning

- you can circle the battle zone and then join (if 1.5x ratio ist not yet reached) to cut off the way of the enemies

 

so it's a great benefit for the game experience without restricting the possbile actions too much - Well done!

I'm also a player who does both. I think every "PVP" player will do PVE sometimes.

Just going for your arguments:

1) Yes you can attack single enemy's if (and just if) you are close with your group - Which takes us to use the same ship type or at least with the same speed to even get there! (= For a game - Terrible)

2)Yes you are protected from unfair situations - BUT, seriously it's open world! There were or will never be fair battles. If you want a fair battle, just go for small or large battles in the capital (battlezone) and not open world.

3) Yeah that is also possible - but just if you get close enough in the 2 min and know to where the players are moving too. (and on the other side) 

- I think everyone knows that it makes no sense at all but well its a game and you need to have a bit "freedom" to make it more playable. But i belive that this is the wrong way.

Closing this, do you really think it is not restricting the players freedom? I just see it the other way around. The BR just forces other players to wait until the other battle is over if they were not in the attacking radius. This is a direct restricting of the freedom which player used to have. (getting with the full team into a battle to stay together)

[Sir Robert Calder]

well i do believe it is not about doing this or doing that pvp/pve or abuse

 

but more about game development and game experience

thats what is the issue here

it needs more clarity from what is going on ,to take counter measure or evasive actions or whatever

(for example to give you a ideas if the BR isx 1.5 

how do you know whats your BR in a group .mostly you dont know 

you dont even know who jumps in a battle with you together because of the BR

i for certain dont know whats the BR of my group..its a big guess ,and that should not be the case in the first place..)

 

I agree, and I'd add that things like having the ability to tag ships without dragging everybody around you into it either by a declination or something else would be helpful. It's not impossible to calculate the BR of your group using wikis, but is this really necessary? Is it intuitive?

[Hethwill]

I think the idea is not to be intuitive by BR calculation but intuitive by task force engagement.

 

As you can drag everyone into combat at start there is no BR interference.

 

The present system, despite any shortcomings and confusion generated ( because many folks refuse to read the notes ), is excellent to pick off stragglers and attack the edges of enemy formations. Much like a real thing.

[Grum]

Nobody realy like the new 1.5 System, it hit hard to fleet travel and fleet ganking. Only  2 or 3 people who sit her,  protect it from any criticism.

  

[Hethwill]

Nobody realy like the new 1.5 System, it hit hard to fleet travel and fleet ganking. Only  2 or 3 people who sit her,  protect it from any criticism.

  

 

I've seen too many fleets of 6 to 10 guys running away from similar forces. I am sure they could fight.

[Twig]

I think, that the admins have to realize, that their attempt has failed. (again?)

If so many different people criticize the same thing over and over - than it is time to change something extremely fast.

[Hethwill]

I think, that the admins have to realize, that their attempt has failed. (again?)

If so many different people criticize the same thing over and over - than it is time to change something extremely fast.

 

Sure, but how to solve the "oh no ! I was jumped by gankers hiding on the result screen" situations ?

 

That is the main thing and despite myself not resorting to less gentlemanly mechanics I know for a fact it is the norm, or it was, until changed.

[Bommel]

Sure, but how to solve the "oh no ! I was jumped by gankers hiding on the result screen" situations ?

 

That is the main thing and despite myself not resorting to less gentlemanly mechanics I know for a fact it is the norm, or it was, until changed.

Simply by removing the ability to hide in a finished battle instance for about an hour. Let players drop out of the finished instance after 1-5 minutes. There is no need to have the ability to stay in there for up to an hour. 

If this is meant to be used as having the possibility to visit the bathroom or fetch a coffee 1-5 minutes should be more then enough.

[Babble]

Want to stop people hiding in battles and jumping out to tag?

 

Idea:

 

Leave the crossed swords battle indicator for all battles even after they close as long as there are players in the battle.   Have them accurately display how many ships are left on either side.

 

This puts the responsibility on the players to assess the possibility that people may be sitting in the battle waiting to pop out when the screen says 8 v 0 with a member of the 8 player nation sitting afk on the OS.

 

 

 

Again it leaves the sandbox in place and lets the captain rely on his own decision making to determine the best cause of action.

[Sir Robert Calder]

I think the idea is not to be intuitive by BR calculation but intuitive by task force engagement.

 

As you can drag everyone into combat at start there is no BR interference.

 

The present system, despite any shortcomings and confusion generated ( because many folks refuse to read the notes ), is excellent to pick off stragglers and attack the edges of enemy formations. Much like a real thing.

 

I respect you and your opinions Hethwill, but I find the system terrible.

 

Why?

 

A report goes out last night that pirates are harassing KPR from Carlisle, I get into a Bellona with some others and sail to Carlisle to put an end to the harassment. I proceed to sit around for 20 minutes outside Carlisle while I watch 10 or so Yachts and Cutters sail around doing relatively nothing. I grow bored, turn to leave and in the process I watch as someone from my faction who isn't quite on the ball gets jumped by a bunch of these pirates sailing ships with such little BR I cannot help my comrade even if I wanted to. My comrade will of course lose because regardless of what BR dictates, as more players generally win out over a lone individual. Even if we did want to help, we'd have to have the right ship available within a 2 minute sail to oblige the 1.5x requirement to aid said comrade in such a specific engagement, which is asking much from even organized groups of players. This all occurs within a 5 minute sail of my Capital, not some fringe border port hotly contested by two opposing sides or at an enemy Capital, but my own.

 

Something about that just seems incredibly wrong to me.

 

"You should have been in the tag circle if you wanted to help your friend by avoiding BR lockout."

"BR mechanic forces players to be more organized."

"BR mechanic makes fights more fair."

"Pirates were playing smarter/more intuitive."

"Ganking was getting out of hand before."

 

Every single one of these responses or one like it makes me wonder what exactly the new BR mechanic has done to make this game any better? How much ganking has this anti-ganking mechanic stopped exactly? How many players have actively stopped participating in fights where they don't outnumber their enemies 3:1 or 4:1 when given the opportunity? Do I fault these pirates for acting the way they did last night? Were they cowards? No. they were smart individuals who took advantage of a system that in the moment worked in their favor. I applaud them for showing to me how notoriously stupid this new mechanic is when people are lauding it as an anti-gank mechanic because that's exactly what they used it for: to gank.

[Twig]

Simply by removing the ability to hide in a finished battle instance for about an hour. Let players drop out of the finished instance after 1-5 minutes. There is no need to have the ability to stay in there for up to an hour. 

If this is meant to be used as having the possibility to visit the bathroom or fetch a coffee 1-5 minutes should be more then enough.

That might be the best. Or at least that if one of your team leaves the battle - than all are thrown out of it. And the looting display should be in the open world again - They can even set the invulnarable timer higher to make it easier.

But didn't it "failed" the second time? I belive the admin said that they went back to the 1.5 BR like in the beginning of the game.

Thus they removed it cause it just didn't fit the game and tried now to integrate this system again.

Yet, madness is - according to the definition - to try the same thing, again and again and to expect different results!  

EDIT: WOW, Sir Robert Calder, you've taken it to the truths ground!

Edited April 18, 2016 by Twig

[Hethwill]

I am not a fan of it mind you, but regarding the "victimized players" I bet there is much less complaints.

 

The post battle screen is a secondary issue, and saying someone only needs 1 - 5 mins break after two hours pursuit and combat is nothing short of irreal.

 

But onwards,

 

My suggestion is all about post battle timers. Make it 121 seconds invulnerability * keep the 20 secs invisibility * so no one can join a on going battle thus removing any result screen camping. Bascially they will not be able to join any battle already opened.

 

What is impossible to do is save the victims from any group materializing in the middle of the sea and be open to attack after the cooldown.

 

We have to think together on how improve and not only to defend this or that form of pvp.

 

The capital protection zone, from what Admin said, is all about ALTs dragging fleets into combat and making them lose time.

 

Some of the solutions for exploit problems resulted in odd side effects in the pvp experience.

[Twig]

 

The capital protection zone, from what Admin said, is all about ALTs dragging fleets into combat and making them lose time.

 

 

The capital protection zone needs to change anyway. Would be good if you CAN attack an enemy without pulling all friendly players inside - but to give them the opportunity to join the fight. Just to handle those, which are spying in the protected zone. (Like attacking a smuggler from the same nation)

-  but just in the protection zone of your own nation of corse. -

 

Edited April 18, 2016 by Twig

[Sir Robert Calder]

I am not a fan of it mind you, but regarding the "victimized players" I bet there is much less complaints.

 

The post battle screen is a secondary issue, and saying someone needs 1 - 5 mins break after two hours pursuit and combat is nothing short of irreal.

 

But onwards,

 

My suggestion is all about post battle timers. Make it 121 seconds invulnerability * keep the 20 secs invisibility * so no one can join a on going battle thus removing any result screen camping. Bascially they will not be able to join any battle already opened.

 

What is impossible to do is save the victims from any group materializing in the middle of the sea and be open to attack after the cooldown.

 

We have to think together on how improve and not only to defend this or that form of pvp.

 

The capital protection zone, from what Admin said, is all about ALTs dragging fleets into combat and making them lose time.

 

Some of the solutions to exploit problems resulted in odd side effects.

 

-5:00 to 10:00 minute limit on after action screen for players who need a bio break, etc. after a battle. (Invisibility Timer could be increased for those who saw the battle to its complete end rather than leaving prematurely to give a chance against massive counter-ganks.)

-120 second ban (separate from invuln/invis) on joining a PvP battle (PBs excluded) from those who have just left a port, just logged in, or have just left an after action screen.

-Remove 1.5x BR idiocy.

-Adjust battle join timer as community desires, have the ban on joining PvP battles from offline/ports/combat result screen be in accord.

-Add the ability to decline attacks on NPC fleets if you're in the tag ring. (for the love of jesus please do this if nothing else)

-Declining attacks on player fleets shouldn't be out of the realm of possibility, many good suggestions from players on this including the changing of the tag circle by adding secondary outer ring. Up for debate.

 

That's pretty much the answer to every annoyance I have with PvP at the moment. Much of this comes from the simple fact that when my comrades are ganked my options are incredibly limited in countering ganks.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Sir Robert Calder

[Hethwill]

Yeah Twig, could be. At the moment is a bit ridiculous to sit in front of a capital and just troll.

 

One of the things I would like a lot is the tagging circle to be 25% smaller.

[Vernon Merrill]

If nothing else, I like it for the fact that it keeps 3rds and higher relatively rare. Go ahead and take that mega-fleet, but don't complain when you can wood-chip my Renommee quite so easily. Get out of your Cadillacs, people

[Sir Robert Calder]

If nothing else, I like it for the fact that it keeps 3rds and higher relatively rare. Go ahead and take that mega-fleet, but don't complain when you can wood-chip my Renommee quite so easily. Get out of your Cadillacs, people

 

As far as ganking goes, 3rds and higher are relatively rare. Sure you'll "win" most engagements you come across, but that doesn't mean squat if you can't catch anything except for maybe a questionable captain sailing a 1st Rate alone.

 

-- EDIT --

 

If anything, I'd say a ship like the Trincomalee is almost too good and too numerous as it is in relative terms to the 3rd Rate, but that's for a different thread.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Sir Robert Calder

[victor]

As far as ganking goes, 3rds and higher are relatively rare. Sure you'll "win" most engagements you come across, but that doesn't mean squat if you can't catch anything except for maybe a questionable captain sailing a 1st Rate alone.

 

-- EDIT --

 

If anything, I'd say a ship like the Trincomalee is almost too good and too numerous as it is in relative terms to the 3rd Rate, but that's for a different thread.

 

Yep and If you want a challenging fight in a trinco your only option is doing a PVE mission of your level

Edited April 18, 2016 by victor

[Eishen]

-5:00 to 10:00 minute limit on after action screen for players who need a bio break, etc. after a battle. (Invisibility Timer could be increased for those who saw the battle to its complete end rather than leaving prematurely to give a chance against massive counter-ganks.)

 

 

A better option than timing each players wc time needed can be maintaining it unlimited, but show FINISHED (not currently fighting) battles with a yellow battle marker a short time (two minutes?) after they end 

[Sven Silberbart]

I didn't found any arguments against this:

- "Use the small and large battles to start balanced fights, this is why they are exists"

- "Do a arranged fight somewhere at the big map if u want a fight with ur rules (ship types, numbers, start positions..)"

Can anyone of the supporter of this restriction explain me, why they dont use this mechanics to do their wanted balanced battles.