Hotfix - 9.66 - Changing changes + some other things

[mirror452]

 

• Production buildings labor hour requirements normalized at 150LH per 3 days of production

 

 

 

Seems more like 300LH per 3 days to me, at least for fully upgraded Sliver Mines and Hemp fields. Is this intentional or a mistake?

 

EDIT: Nevermind, didn't read Galileus' post earlier. Sorry.

Edited March 17, 2016 by mirror452

[Captain Tylor]

Russian patch note says this:

Возвращен поворот кораблей на центр

 

Does that mean that ships now pivot around their midpoint, instead of the stern (where the rudder is), as they should?

 

If so, that is not an obscure detail for realism fanatics. There are without question hundreds of players who steer boats in real life, of all sizes, and the fact that they pivot on the stern is a very prominent and important part of vesselhandling. Very different from a car and much more interesting.

What the hell are you talking about?

Ships do not pivot around their stern ! (unless going astern)

 

In fact it is not a fixed point and depends on several factors, but it is not around the stern 

 

Boats might do? but we do not have boats in game. 

Edited March 17, 2016 by Captain Tylor

[Quineloe]

So far the change has increased the supply of every material in the game...

Just wait until port production reaches 0%. That's the point where the economy becomes a lot less fun.

[victor]

Just wait until port production reaches 0%. That's the point where the economy becomes a lot less fun.

 

You'd say "becomes a disaster"

[pietjenoob]

A little bit of topic when can we expect te new ships to arrive? According to the 1st big content 'patch notes' they will arrived after the patch do you guys have an ETA? I am really curious which are coming.

[maturin]

What the hell are you talking about?

Ships do not pivot around their stern ! (unless going astern)

 

In fact it is not a fixed point and depends on several factors, but it is not around the stern 

 

True, I misspoke while rushing to get out the door.

 

I mean that ships/boats steer 'by the stern.' The rudder pushes the stern to either side, as opposed most cars that steer by the front wheels.

 

That means that if you turn sharply to port, your stern will swing out to starboard, possibly side-swiping whatever it is you were trying to avoid. It also means that the best way to avoid an object in a sailboat is often to turn towards it, swinging your stern out of the way and 'wrapping the hull around' the obstacle.

 

With an outboard motor, obviously, this is even more pronounced.

[kumisz]

True, I misspoke while rushing to get out the door.

 

I mean that ships/boats steer 'by the stern.' The rudder pushes the stern to either side, as opposed most cars that steer by the front wheels.

 

That means that if you turn sharply to port, your stern will swing out to starboard, possibly side-swiping whatever it is you were trying to avoid. It also means that the best way to avoid an object in a sailboat is often to turn towards it, swinging your stern out of the way and 'wrapping the hull around' the obstacle.

 

With an outboard motor, obviously, this is even more pronounced.

 

Forklift controls! confusing as hell. 

[Enraged Ewok]

A little bit of topic when can we expect te new ships to arrive? According to the 1st big content 'patch notes' they will arrived after the patch do you guys have an ETA? I am really curious which are coming.

 

Seconding this. I'm really looking forward to the Essex, and (possibly?) the unannounced third ship. Hopefully another 5th or 6th rate.

[Tekert]

Я Вот не понимаю нашли ошибки одни, исправили другое, то что было накосячено так и осталось накосяченым у меня Вопрос к разработчикам ТТХ так и будите  крутить туда сюда обратно ? Или будут строгие цифры как в истории????  

[BluewaterMP]

 

 

• Cannon mass changed to historical weights
• Upgraded production buildings now give more LH discount (increase from 10% to 20%)

 

 

Two questions:

 

1) On Cannon Mass change - is that a net increase in cannon weight, or a decrease in cannon weight?  And how does that impact ship speed?

2) Upgraded production building LH discount - I am assuming this is not applicable to Shipyards crafting hours to build ships.  Is that correct?

[Obliterati]

I'm starting to think the Devs lack anyone who can do basic Math. Which is partly why we keep seeing a seesaw with the balancing. One minute it is OP and the next it is like we're getting shafted.

The simple truth is the economy is a purely mathematical equation. Lets take the Victory for example. Under the NPC created market it cost just shy of 8k labor (multiple people + 2 real world days) hours to create. For a single durability ship. With the new system you can add an easy additional 3k labor to it for resource farming. Which doesn't include real-world time for travel and shipping.

 

So to put this in perspective you basically need 5 people to dedicate all of their time and effort to a single ship builder. Which in turn allows them to MAYBE get 1 ship a week each. in exchange for no profit and only cost.This assumes of course that you can keep all 5 people playing every day. Which in turn doesn't leave much room for pvp losses or a healthy high volume market.

 

Open world market selling will be outrageously overpriced, because of how the ports consume items. Since they buy at a higher price creating an effective minimum buy price at over the max sell price of an NPC consuming port. Otherwise you'll never keep a port stocked because people would buy up the material and sell it at an NPC consuming port. Which in turn destroys the material. Creating an infinite shortage and inflation driven economy. This will effectively eliminate a crafting teams ability to gather additional resources on the side to compensate for production losses. Certainly not at a viable market rate.

[admin]

I'm starting to think the Devs lack anyone who can do basic Math. Which is partly why we keep seeing a seesaw with the balancing. One minute it is OP and the next it is like we're getting shafted.

The simple truth is the economy is a purely mathematical equation. Lets take the Victory for example. Under the NPC created market it cost just shy of 8k labor (multiple people + 2 real world days) hours to create. For a single durability ship. With the new system you can add an easy additional 3k labor to it for resource farming. Which doesn't include real-world time for travel and shipping.

 

 

Long time to build ships of the line was one of the most common player request.

 

ps. I went to a certain school on the East Coast 

[Prater]

 

So to put this in perspective you basically need 5 people to dedicate all of their time and effort to a single ship builder. Which in turn allows them to MAYBE get 1 ship a week each. in exchange for no profit and only cost.This assumes of course that you can keep all 5 people playing every day. Which in turn doesn't leave much room for pvp losses or a healthy high volume market.

 

Not everyone needs a victory, that is the point.  I think you are failing to do the basic and simple math of low cost + ease = sol creep and everyone in sols and nothing else is used.  Might as well take every other ship out of the game and only use 3rd rates and up if that is the case.

[Obliterati]

Not everyone needs a victory, that is the point.  I think you are failing to do the basic and simple math of low cost + ease = sol creep and everyone in sols and nothing else is used.  Might as well take every other ship out of the game and only use 3rd rates and up if that is the case.

 

I can guarantee if you don't have almost all ships of the line you wont be winning a fully contested PB in the very near future. Which is going to make the population imbalance between nations even more relevant.

 

You also ignored my point about minimum buy prices of the new economy. Unless the NPC ports STOP consuming materials at the same rate they stop producing materials (meaning no NPC trade). The player driven materials market will have a minimum buy price set above the max buy price for every single item. I don't look forward to paying 200-300g for one Oak log.

[Blackjack Morgan]

Not everyone needs a victory, that is the point.  I think you are failing to do the basic and simple math of low cost + ease = sol creep and everyone in sols and nothing else is used.  Might as well take every other ship out of the game and only use 3rd rates and up if that is the case.

 

Prater is spot on with this. I look around and I swear half the people are sailing around on 3rds....granted most of those are probably capped and is a separate issue....but the benefits just in xp and gold gain from sailing SoL's is huge. We really need to come up with some game mechanics that outweigh the simplistic reward system we have now where sheer damage done is the sole factor in determining xp and gold rewarded. 

[Enraged Ewok]

Prater is spot on with this. I look around and I swear half the people are sailing around on 3rds....granted most of those are probably capped and is a separate issue....but the benefits just in xp and gold gain from sailing SoL's is huge. We really need to come up with some game mechanics that outweigh the simplistic reward system we have now where sheer damage done is the sole factor in determining xp and gold rewarded. 

 

I have a suspicion that there is some kind of weighting to xp gain depending on the rate of your ship vs the rate of the ship you damaged. For example, doing captain missions in my Belle Poule would net me around 600 xp for the battle alone (assuming I get a two ship matchup). Doing the same mission in a Constitution (two ship matchup) I received around 350 xp.

[Prater]

I can guarantee if you don't have almost all ships of the line you wont be winning a fully contested PB in the very near future. Which is going to make the population imbalance between nations even more relevant.

 

You also ignored my point about minimum buy prices of the new economy. Unless the NPC ports STOP consuming materials at the same rate they stop producing materials (meaning no NPC trade). The player driven materials market will have a minimum buy price set above the max buy price for every single item. I don't look forward to paying 200-300g for one Oak log.

 

NPC ports don't consume what is produced in the same port.  Also, I'm not sure where you are getting 200-300g for 1 oak log.  That is what it was before.  Now that players produce a ton of resources (I've heard someone say a person with 5 resource buildings will produce 1500 logs a day), it is a lot cheaper.  Problem with your thinking is that you aren't seeing it play out.  Once the player econ gets in place, supply, demand, and distance will control the prices.

[Lennyo]

The 20% reduction in resources has me concerned but I will wait to see it play out. I really don't like the idea of going to 100% player controlled because everyone will have their buildings near home ports. That discourages people taking long trading trips to potentially hazardous areas.

Everything else about this hot fix is great. Really happy with the tuning done.

[mwnciboo]

 

Does that mean that ships now pivot around their midpoint, instead of the stern (where the rudder is), as they should?

 

 

Dr Maturin, what stuff....you are such a lubber Sir...For all love, Ships do not pivot about their rudder, any more than you can "whip off a leg with a butter knife".

 

http://www.warsashacademy.co.uk/news-events/resources/use-of-pivot-point-in-ship-handling.pdf

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuhETd0hTyU

 

As a rule of thumb, in general most ships have a "nominal pivot point" about 1/3 of a ship length back from the bow when going ahead. However, Pivot points move, both fore and Aft, depending on going ahead or astern, it is not a set position. The individual pivot characteristics of ships are very different depending on many factors...Some examples

 

1. Wind powered / or Power driven vessels.

2. Rudders, spade or otherwise and their number.

3. Hull shape (flared bows, cut away sterns) and design including transom flaps etc.

4. Top weight of the ship and angles of heel in the turn.

5. Distribution of cargo (fore or aft or balanced)

6. Trim of the ship both laterally but also by the head or stern.

7. External factors (wind acting on the ship or set)

8. The shape of your super-structure -  Car Transporters are a Mother-F**ker for this, as they are slab sided, so catch the wind and you can struggle to turn against, or with or even through the wind. (When the wind gets these ships, you are in all kinds of trouble).

 

 

But in most applications a good approximation in a conventional vessel is 1/3 back from the bow, when going ahead, and 1/3 from the stern when going astern. (I heavily caveat this, that every vessel is different and experienced mariners, masters and pilots spend a lifetime learning the foibles of ships!)

 

If you want me to send you to sleep I can talk about GZ curves as well.

 

All of the principles above hold true in various forms to Wooden sailing ships, with 3 deckers carrying much more WINDAGE than say a low lying Cutter or privateer.

Edited March 17, 2016 by mwnciboo

[admin]

NPC ports don't consume what is produced in the same port.  Also, I'm not sure where you are getting 200-300g for 1 oak log.  That is what it was before.  Now that players produce a ton of resources (I've heard someone say a person with 5 resource buildings will produce 1500 logs a day), it is a lot cheaper.  Problem with your thinking is that you aren't seeing it play out.  Once the player econ gets in place, supply, demand, and distance will control the prices.

 

 

what people also forget is that economy part of the game is 1 year younger compared to combat.

most importantly because its Early access - and the search continues - economy might even get cut out of the final game. No need to keep things that suck if they suck for everyone.

[Obliterati]

NPC ports don't consume what is produced in the same port.  Also, I'm not sure where you are getting 200-300g for 1 oak log.  That is what it was before.  Now that players produce a ton of resources (I've heard someone say a person with 5 resource buildings will produce 1500 logs a day), it is a lot cheaper.  Problem with your thinking is that you aren't seeing it play out.  Once the player econ gets in place, supply, demand, and distance will control the prices.

 

If you were paying that before your an idiot. Oak logs cost 35g on average. However the sell prices are easy 75g+ at the right port, and if you look closely there is almost always a consumption port within a 15 minute trip.

Even though i did exaggerate a bit. I would expect the median oak log price to be 100-120g. Anything less and it would be sold to a NPC port as a consumption trade good. Additionally producing 1500 a day is dumb as hell. Unless you have intentions of it being a purely money making opportunity. In which case more power to you.

 

However, the reason this wont happen in the long term, if the player is smart, is because he wont be able to get high level ships if he doesn't partner with a ship builder. Because ships cost so many gross labor hours to produce. It effectively means gold is effectively useless. The real currency of this game is labor hours. Spending them in this fashion isn't smart.

 

The only possible exception to this would be from a high population nation. Which in theory has enough people producing goods to keep a market going. Ala bet at a much more expensive rate. Though i can tell you right now on pvp2. The only nation this might be true for is the US.

[Grim DeGrim]

Love it.

Edit: Admin's post. Ninja Wall of Text got in between...

[Capt. Rice]

I can guarantee if you don't have almost all ships of the line you wont be winning a fully contested PB in the very near future. Which is going to make the population imbalance between nations even more relevant.

 

You also ignored my point about minimum buy prices of the new economy. Unless the NPC ports STOP consuming materials at the same rate they stop producing materials (meaning no NPC trade). The player driven materials market will have a minimum buy price set above the max buy price for every single item. I don't look forward to paying 200-300g for one Oak log.

This will change once they update port battles mechanics.

[mwnciboo]

Love it.

Edit: Admin's post. Ninja Wall of Text got in between...

 

 Sorry couldn't let the ships pivot around their rudder issue go...

[Capt. Rice]

what people also forget is that economy part of the game is 1 year younger compared to combat.

most importantly because its Early access - and the search continues - economy might even get cut out of the final game. No need to keep things that suck if they suck for everyone.

This would be a very interesting game then.   I would prefer it to still stay sum-what the way it is now.