Player selected ship 2015 - Suggestions

[PIerrick de Badas]

It's time for French Hermione frigate!

[Robert Danforth]

Someone has to say that ))  We have a Surprise, so may I propose Indefatigable?

 

Based on Pellew's own notes and complaints, she was sort of terrible at sailing. He was able to fix some of that with changes to the rigging, but the biggest impediment was the location of the masts, and no matter how many times he asked, the admiralty refused to move them.

[Don Alvarez]

Enough Warships!

 

Indiaman!!

 

Amsterdam - 42 guns

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_(VOC_ship)

[Legioneod]

1st uss bonhomme richard

2nd uss independence

3rd uss rattlesnake

[Balck]

Enough Warships!

 

Indiaman!!

 

Amsterdam - 42 guns

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_(VOC_ship)

We really do need to test merchantment in combat.  

[Destraex]

Indiamen were quite able to defend themselves and could be a larger ship earlier in the queue for noobs to try as the list gets longer and the larger ships harder to grind to.

I like the idea. This indiamen had 42 guns and most indiamen were like treasure ships and fairly well armed because of the long voyages. They were of course built to carry cargo and thus would have been less nimble than purpose built warships with less crew of course.

A lot were painted to look like men of war with fake gun ports painted on.

 

I like the idea.

 

Another ship I would like to see tested but I fear it is too early is the Frigate Galley. I believe the British had one called Charles as well.

The mechanics needed in game for this to happen would be like a whole new game but I believe they will do it for the Turks. Swedes and Russians where galleys were prominent still anyway?

 

Source: Destroyers, Frigates and Corvettes 

300 of the worlds greatest destroyers and escorts

Robert Jackson

 

Without the charles I would vote for the Amsterdam. You must let her into the light ships arena though so that she may have a chance.

This also gives us a chance to explore what it will be like to be a merchant.

[Inigo Balboa aka Ronda]

The Delft was a Dutch 56-gun fourth rate ship of the line of the navy of the Dutch Republic and the Batavian Republic.

Check the rest of wiki info under the spoiler

The order to construct the ship was given on 27 May 1782 by the Admiralty of the Meuse. The ship was commissioned on 16 May 1783 by the United Netherlands Navy.

 

 

Nice find.  +1 for it. 

 

Thought of HMS Leopard (1790, 50 guns, model photos, plan) but that would be fourth rate as well.

[Alex Connor]

Also I've found some plans of ship called Delft (1797) at the Royal Greenwich Museums, althought there is a desription that "'Delft' (1797), a captured Dutch Third Rate, as taken off at Chatham Dockyard in May 1799" in the same time the wiki says Delft was a 4rd rate and "Despite heavy resistance the ship was captured by the British and sank off Scheveningen four days later while being towed to Britain." So there is some strange counter facts...I doubt there were two ships called Delft that fougth in the same year of 1797 and been sunk/captured by Britain...but who knows, maybe it was two different ships? Anyway, plans can be found here - http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/81232.html and http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/81233.html . But I think the best idea will be to ask official museum

I found the solution 

 

This is the 64 gun Dutch 3rd rate Hercules, captured in the same battle as Delft. She was commissioned into the Royal Navy, but they already had a ship called Hercules (a Temeraire class 74 captured from the french), so renamed to Delft.

 

If plans for the original Delft are not available, Hercules would also be an excellent addition to the game, we could use a 64 to fill out the 3rd rate range along with the 74 gun Bellona (and 80 gun Bucentaur if this ship is built)

[Inigo Balboa aka Ronda]

Kinda expected one day there would be Nelson's HMS Agamemnon for 64 (yes, I seen the results of last year's voting, but...)  Would that be too many to fit between Constitution and Bellona?

[UltraVires]

Well, after seeing the Bon Homme Richard, and that Dutch ship, I'm almost tempted not to post anything, and hope one of those makes it in... but since I just posted earlier on a thread about possible American Ships of the Line, I had the research already at hand... 

 

USS (later French) America- 74 guns.  The first Ship of the Line built in the United States- commissioned in 1784, and the only one built during the Revolutionary War.  She was given to France by the US as a gift to replace the French ship Magnifique, lost in Boston Harbor.  Not to be confused with the later French ship America, (built as a replacement) which was of the Temeraire class.

 

USS America 74 Guns- 626 Souls; 

20 Long 18 Pounders

32 Long 12 Pounders

12 Long 9 Pounders

Length: 182'6" (U.S. Feet)

Beam: 50'6"

Depth of Hold: 23'

Displacement: 1,982 US Tons.

Laid Down in May, 1777

Commissioned 5 November, 1782.

 

This is the best picture I could find of the completed ship.

 

 

This is the Drought plan of the ship.

 

 

This is the Sail Plan.

 

Special thanks to this Website- http://www.battlecruisers.org/solamerica.html

 

As launched, she was armed with a battery of 18 pound guns, while most other comparable British and French ships had 20-30 pound main batteries.  She would not have the "punch" of other warships her size up close, but would have a faster firing rate, and longer range.  More than a match for anything smaller than a 3rd Rate, but not really able to handle anything heavier.  It comes pre-balanced for the game... 

[Destraex]

Or the HMS America

I am pretty much against putting a ship in game that all the Americans will tend to use as their own SOL of which they had none by choice.

There are literally hundreds of other 74s more relavant and we already have one in game (Bellona).

I would prefer a lower rate ship of the line like a 50 or 64 as we are getting a 2nd rate already.

 

P.S. Why would 18pdr guns have more range than larger ones, is this because they were long?? Normal 74s can mount these.

[Mahlitz]

Someone has to say that ))  We have a Surprise, so may I propose Indefatigable?

 

 

 

HMS Indefatigable (1784)  Ardent-class 64-gun 3rd rate ship of the line.  Razeed to 44 guns between September 1794 and February 1795. 

 

Thanks to C.S. Forester's novels and TV-series Indy is as well-known as the Surprise I guess))

 

Any way, plans are here:

 

1, 2, 3, 4, 5

 

Model description and pictures: http://www.modelshipmaster.com/products/tall_ships/HMS_Indefatigable.htm

 

 

This would be a awesome ship, has a lot of history and was very heavy gunned as a Heavy Frigate 

[BrutishVulgarian]

I vote for Dutch ships, I think in a world without leeway they could excel, with their shallower drafts.

Although, we can't forget Xebecs, everyone loves them, and they look different than all the square riggers.

[UltraVires]

Or the HMS America

I am pretty much against putting a ship in game that all the Americans will tend to use as their own SOL of which they had none by choice.

There are literally hundreds of other 74s more relavant and we already have one in game (Bellona).

I would prefer a lower rate ship of the line like a 50 or 64 as we are getting a 2nd rate already.

 

P.S. Why would 18pdr guns have more range than larger ones, is this because they were long?? Normal 74s can mount these.

 

I forgot there was an HMS America lol!  I think it was even based on the French designed America... which was based on the American built one... (I think- sailing ships are confusing )  Yes, I was thinking of the Long guns... but as you say, most ships could mount those.   It's late where I am.  

And I understand why you would feel that way, your right that the US never really had any SOL's, some were started during the War of 1812, but they weren't finished until many years later, the "America" did at least get built, and saw action.  I guess I made it mostly as a suggestion for later, when the Open World comes out.

 

I know it's been suggested that if the US has the same types of ships as the other Nations, that when the Open World comes out, that's all we'll see.  On the opposite side of that view, I'm afraid that if the heaviest US ship is a Frigate, that when the Open World does come out, you won't see many US ship's at all; everyone well be going for the Victory or Santisima, the "best" ships (I think that will eventually happen no matter what, given the nature of online games).

 

I thought the "America" was a good compromise between those points of view.  It would give the Americans 1 type of heavy warship, while still leaving them inferior to the British, French etc.  

 

I suppose I'm just thinking about it from a game-play perspective.  From a purely Historic standpoint, your right... the US should not get any Ships of the Line.  But I can dream can't I???    I admit, I'm an American... so I might be a little biased... 

[BBrown]

Someone has to say that ))  We have a Surprise, so may I propose Indefatigable?

 

 

HMS Indefatigable (1784)  Ardent-class 64-gun 3rd rate ship of the line.  Razeed to 44 guns between September 1794 and February 1795. 

 

Thanks to C.S. Forester's novels and TV-series Indy is as well-known as the Surprise I guess))

 

Any way, plans are here:

 

1, 2, 3, 4, 5

 

Model description and pictures: http://www.modelshipmaster.com/products/tall_ships/HMS_Indefatigable.htm

 

Yes please. I'd love to see this in Naval Action. My love for the Hornblower series drives me to fight for this if necessary

[Destraex]

I forgot there was an HMS America lol!  I think it was even based on the French designed America... which was based on the American built one... (I think- sailing ships are confusing )  Yes, I was thinking of the Long guns... but as you say, most ships could mount those.   It's late where I am.

And I understand why you would feel that way, your right that the US never really had any SOL's, some were started during the War of 1812, but they weren't finished until many years later, the "America" did at least get built, and saw action.  I guess I made it mostly as a suggestion for later, when the Open World comes out.

 

I know it's been suggested that if the US has the same types of ships as the other Nations, that when the Open World comes out, that's all we'll see.  On the opposite side of that view, I'm afraid that if the heaviest US ship is a Frigate, that when the Open World does come out, you won't see many US ship's at all; everyone well be going for the Victory or Santisima, the "best" ships (I think that will eventually happen no matter what, given the nature of online games).

 

I thought the "America" was a good compromise between those points of view.  It would give the Americans 1 type of heavy warship, while still leaving them inferior to the British, French etc.  

 

I suppose I'm just thinking about it from a game-play perspective.  From a purely Historic standpoint, your right... the US should not get any Ships of the Line.  But I can dream can't I???    I admit, I'm an American... so I might be a little biased... 

I know what you mean. But remember the US navy was not really a major force during this period. Its exploits are extremely well covered in history however. Compare this to what we have written on the Spanish, Swedish, Dutch and French exploits which is almost nothing.

I guess I am being Anal about history. I was just imagining all the Super Heavy American Frigates making up for that and then having to contend with the American SOLs as well.

But imagine also from my perspective that a country like the Barbary states navy all of a sudden starts capping Britain with SOLs. It would seem strange to us both. 

 

I just imagined America as one of the countries with a navy that was a "different" play style from the rest making things interesting. Instead we may have Trafalgar with huge American fleets. Just won't feel period like is all.

[Destraex]

oh and you will never guess who captained hms America... I shit you not. James Kirk.

[Thomas Blackwell]

oh and you will never guess who captained hms America... I shit you not. James Kirk.

James T Kirk is a Time Lord. 

[Destraex]

These are the voyages of the HMS America, Captained by James Kirk.
http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_crewman&id=732

[Alex Connor]

I know what you mean. But remember the US navy was not really a major force during this period. Its exploits are extremely well covered in history however. Compare this to what we have written on the Spanish, Swedish, Dutch and French exploits which is almost nothing.

I guess I am being Anal about history. I was just imagining all the Super Heavy American Frigates making up for that and then having to contend with the American SOLs as well.

But imagine also from my perspective that a country like the Barbary states navy all of a sudden starts capping Britain with SOLs. It would seem strange to us both. 

 

I just imagined America as one of the countries with a navy that was a "different" play style from the rest making things interesting. Instead we may have Trafalgar with huge American fleets. Just won't feel period like is all.

Indeed, would be great to have some differences between factions...

 

Britain, France and Spain as traditional deep water navies with a full range of square rigged ships, then America as a frigate/privateer nation with the finest frigates but no lineships. Russia and Sweden with a mixture of deep water warships and oared archipelago frigates. Barbary states with xebecs and galleys and other nations as applicable.

 

All these ship provided by admiralties or by privateer's sponsors, so each nation would have a range of ships available, and anything outside this range would have to be captured and thus rare.

[Crankey]

I would like to have the 'gaps' in Rated ships filled, to give everyone the chance of commanding and getting used to their handling. That or something 'Quirky'

 

Already quite a few votes for the Danish 2nd rate Christian Vll, So I would like to start the vote on either a 2 decker 4th Rate or something completely different. a 'Galley !'

 

My argument...

While Swedish troops were being deployed at the Russian border, near Villmanstrand (Finnish: Lappeenranta) and Frederikshamn (Finnish: Hamina), Swedish naval forces consisting of 10 ships of the line and 4 frigates under Admiral Tomas von Rajalin and 20 galley strong rowing fleet under Admiral Abraham Falkengren moved on 20 May 1741 to the islands near the border.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Swedish_War_%281741%E2%80%9343%29

[Mirones]

I'm afraid that if the heaviest US ship is a Frigate, that when the Open World does come out, you won't see many US ship's at all; everyone well be going for the Victory or Santisima, the "best" ships (I think that will eventually happen no matter what, given the nature of online games.

wont happen every smart soc leader will notic that for 1 first or Second rate you could built:

2x74guns 

4x44gun super frigate

5-6x38gun 

6-7x32gun

 

now think about it what would giv you more sleepless night? your neighboor having a single wooden iceberg he is to afraid to loose because of the cost.

OR a fleet of fast and heavy hitting frigates that will blockade your habour and ruin your trading routs?

[Leviathan]

If you needed a larger US sotl than the America, which was give to the French, there is the USS Independence 1814 which saw a lot of action.

 

I posted it on the first page as a Razee but it was originally a ship of 90 guns http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Independence_%281814%29

Mediterranean Fleet, 1814–1822

Master sailmaker's plan of USS Independence

Launched on 22 June 1814 in the Boston Navy Yard, she immediately took on guns and was stationed with frigate USS Constitution to protect the approaches to Boston Harbor. Flying the broad pennant of Commodore William Bainbridge, and under command of Captain William M. Crane, she led her squadron from Boston on 3 July 1815 to deal with piratical acts of the Barbary States against American merchant commerce.

Peace had been enforced by a squadron under Stephen Decatur by the time Independence arrived in the Mediterranean. But she led an impressive show of American naval might before Barbary ports that encouraged them to keep the peace treaties concluded. Having served adequate notice of rising U.S. seapower and added to the prestige of the Navy and the Nation, Independence returned to Newport, Rhode Island on 15 November 1815. She continued to wear the pennant of Commodore Bainbridge at Boston until 29 November 1819, then was flagship of Commodore John Shaw until placed in ordinary in 1822.

 

[Mahlitz]

If you needed a larger US sotl than the America, which was give to the French, there is the USS Independence 1814 which saw a lot of action.

 

I posted it on the first page as a Razee but it was originally a ship of 90 guns http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Independence_%281814%29

Mediterranean Fleet, 1814–1822

 

Looks like a nice ship and i would surely fear those 90 32pdr guns 

[Leviathan]

Looks like a nice ship and i would surely fear those 90 32pdr guns 

90x32 does sound delightful doesn't it?