Forthcoming patch 14 Part 3

[maturin]

Quote

I have no idea about battle. I doubt it was that relevant, given I've never read about it having any noteworthy impact in any small or large scale battle.

Leewardly ships were constantly throwing off line formations.

And most collisions involve leeway, since you generally don't steer right at another ship, if you can help it.

[Barbancourt]

3 hours ago, Hethwill said:

 

In OW you already get 4º declination on a dead reckoning btw.

Wait....what? 

 

[Valentine Karrde]

4 hours ago, maturin said:

I don't recall a single compliment ever specifically paid to Constitution's handling. On the other hand, Bainbridge try to bribe a fellow captain $5,000 to let him take President instead.

The ship was undoubtedly well-handled in combat, but that's something quite different from design. Handiness was certainly not one of the design priorities.

 

Well the digital version can set more than her topsails, so that's a little less pathetic. She's just been robbed in the speed department, for balance reasons (one wonders where that leaves Wasa...).

 

Not really, her rig was fairly proportionate. Not sure what you mean there.

Of course, the sail area calculations are misleading. Surprise had the good fortune to be modeled by the devs in a sail configuration fit for light winds. Trincomalee has a sailplan for a slightly stronger breeze. But of course both real ships could adopt both configurations at will, and swap between them in a few minutes. Which would have a huge impact on the game as currently coded.

Smaller vessels will almost always have the higher sail area: displacement ratio, however. (And that's not what determines leeway.)

Read 6 Frigates by Ian Toll. And take the Connie tour in Massachusetts. Or do what I did as a cadet at the US Naval academy and become part of the crew and sail her yourself   Once you have sailed her especially, the in game digital version doesn't even come close. The only version that this game had that did come close was the early 14.1 version. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Valentine Karrde

[PenguPirate]

11 hours ago, Havelock said:

 

I see it as a mechanic to give ships more unique sailing qualities. I mean, can you imagine having to slightly tap d for 20 minutes xD

I normally can only tap D for 3-4minutes before needing to hydrate *wink wink*

[Aziz]

19 hours ago, maturin said:

You really have no idea what you're talking about. Please stop.

Ive already expressed I'm no sailor, however considering that Redii has already given me the rant that in a game anythings possible I would tell you to stop trying to dictate to me rules on sailing however unrealistic they may be to you, like your an authority because? Further more if I didn't protest these changes we would end up with a game so difficult to play most people will give up and play a game easier to navigate and enjoy.
If the devs idea of ship balancing is to introduce capsizing well I guarantee you people will leave.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Aziz

[greybuscat]

One last question. What about unredeemed redeemables on the global characters? Those will also carry over, too? As in, I will end up with 4x Aggie coupons, assuming I have used none for either character thus far?

Like, the extra Yacht I understand not carrying over, but the unused forged papers, non-premium ships, etc?

Edited December 16, 2017 by greybuscat
clarification

[Quineloe]

Fun thought about Leeway for OW.

You start a trip with wind coming from 180°. 45 minutes later, wind will be coming from 180° again. The Leeway pushing you to port in the first 22 minutes of the journey will have been cancelled out completely by the Leeway pushing you to starboard in the second 22 minutes.

[Archaos]

15 hours ago, maturin said:

The wind is coming from the right-hand side of the picture, and the half-fletched arrows represent tidal current. The ship is painstakingly working through an estuary, with wind not much stronger than the tide.

Thanks for the explanation, I am well aware of the intricacies of maneuvering a ship through a restricted waterway being a trained Master Mariner, what I was trying to point out was that the picture is quite regularly thrown up on these forums ever since the Devs first posted it but in reality it bears no relevance to what we can do in NA. It does not show where the wind is coming from and it does not say that the arrows are the tidal current. In game there is nowhere we have to maneuver like this and we do not have use of an anchor to assist turning.

Although I have no experience on square rigged sail ships, I can assure you such maneuvers in such a restricted waters would only ever be done as a last resort and at great risk to the vessel. I see it as more of a theoretical exercise rather than something that was practiced regularly. So I do not understand why people post it as if it is some magic sailing ability that was regularly done.

[_Masterviolin]

23 hours ago, admin said:

4 .Unstable situations might be added (having a ship with large yard power but using it irresponsibly can result in capsizing of the boat).

Oh god, I can see it now- some guy accidentally capsizes his ship and, in his rage, writes a nasty steam review about the game's "broken heeling mechanics" or something.  This sounds cool but seems like it could add a lot of fuel to the fire that is the game's steam rating. I beg of you- do not add this!

[Jack Jones]

Yes!!! Add it. I have to see this!!

 

[maturin]

2 hours ago, Archaos said:

Although I have no experience on square rigged sail ships, I can assure you such maneuvers in such a restricted waters would only ever be done as a last resort and at great risk to the vessel. I see it as more of a theoretical exercise rather than something that was practiced regularly. So I do not understand why people post it as if it is some magic sailing ability that was regularly done.

No, it was done regularly.

Look at London. Look at Philadelphia. Look at Sevilla. Where are these major port cities located? On rivers.

The picture represents a kind of shiphandling that is a lost art. Because of course, we have had steam-powered tugboats and other engines, for over 150 years.

An anchor was only used twice in that screenshot, on the bottom leg. Page 200 of Seamanship in the Age of Sail if you want to see the wind arrow and last third of the diagram, along with a written explanation.

I do agree with you that it has been taken out of context, with only limited relevance to the game's sailing model.

 

[Custard]

15 minutes ago, maturin said:

No, it was done regularly.

Look at London. Look at Philadelphia. Look at Sevilla. Where are these major port cities located? On rivers.

The picture represents a kind of shiphandling that is a lost art. Because of course, we have had steam-powered tugboats and other engines, for over 150 years.

An anchor was only used twice in that screenshot, on the bottom leg. Page 200 of Seamanship in the Age of Sail if you want to see the wind arrow and last third of the diagram, along with a written explanation.

I do agree with you that it has been taken out of context, with only limited relevance to the game's sailing model.

 

Great example would be River Avon into Bristol

[Valentine Karrde]

1 hour ago, maturin said:

No, it was done regularly.

Look at London. Look at Philadelphia. Look at Sevilla. Where are these major port cities located? On rivers.

The picture represents a kind of shiphandling that is a lost art. Because of course, we have had steam-powered tugboats and other engines, for over 150 years.

An anchor was only used twice in that screenshot, on the bottom leg. Page 200 of Seamanship in the Age of Sail if you want to see the wind arrow and last third of the diagram, along with a written explanation.

I do agree with you that it has been taken out of context, with only limited relevance to the game's sailing model.

 

Those are all big rivers though... I don't think it would have required those kinds of maneuvers. 

[Valentine Karrde]

3 hours ago, Custard said:

Great example would be River Avon into Bristol

Zero relevance.... I either picked the wrong post or you edited yours lol. But yeah all of this has zero relevance in game. All they are doing is making it more frustrating to newer players and assuring a permanent small player base. Maybe that's what they want... dunno.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Valentine Karrde

[Horatio 15]

Still haven't received a response as to whether we will retain all unused redeemables currently on the Global PVP after it closes and our stuff is moved to Carib EU server?  Do we have to open it up in Global to get the ships in it?  

[Quineloe]

15 minutes ago, Lord Reginald said:

Still haven't received a response as to whether we will retain all unused redeemables currently on the Global PVP after it closes and our stuff is moved to Carib EU server?  Do we have to open it up in Global to get the ships in it?  

Don't you have the exact same redeemables in eu? They're not tied to server afaik.

[Sir Texas Sir]

6 hours ago, Flash Jack said:

Yes!!! Add it. I have to see this!!

 

I got a feeling we are going to have a lot of folks find out they can flip ships at the very worse time to find out lol

[Hethwill]

The sharp angles can be practiced. We disregard the extreme heeling at the moment just as a mere "aiming" nuisance.

Maybe reducing sail to do such angles of turn in the future ?

Would also like to see gunnery affected by heeling. No sane captain would risk loose amok carriages by firing broadsides at high heeling.

[Jack Jones]

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I got a feeling we are going to have a lot of folks find out they can flip ships at the very worse time to find out lol

Absolutely!

[maturin]

58 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

The sharp angles can be practiced. We disregard the extreme heeling at the moment just as a mere "aiming" nuisance.

Maybe reducing sail to do such angles of turn in the future ?

Would also like to see gunnery affected by heeling. No sane captain would risk loose amok carriages by firing broadsides at high heeling.

At the moment we don't have extreme heeling at all. And recoiling your guns uphill isn't so bad.

You encourage entirely too much caution, Hethwill. We're here to fight heroically. 

Plenty of lineships ended battles with lower decks full of water, and two French 74s foundered that way at Qiberon.

[William Livingston Alden]

4. Unstable situations might be added (having a ship with large yard power but using it irresponsibly can result in capsizing of the boat).

Ever seen a boat of that age in reallife doing that? before that happens the mast will break for sure.

 

[maturin]

13 minutes ago, William Livingston Alden said:

Ever seen a boat of that age in reallife doing that?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

 

And if 'the masts would break', how on earth do you imagine ships were ever careened? By definition, this involved tipping the ship over by pulling on the masts.

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 hours ago, Hethwill said:

The sharp angles can be practiced. We disregard the extreme heeling at the moment just as a mere "aiming" nuisance.

Maybe reducing sail to do such angles of turn in the future ?

Would also like to see gunnery affected by heeling. No sane captain would risk loose amok carriages by firing broadsides at high heeling.

You mean a reason for folks to actually use Battle Sails in Combat instead of going full blown sails the whole time?

[Hethwill]

2 hours ago, maturin said:

You encourage entirely too much caution. We're here to fight heroically. 

Absolutely love this quote. o7

[DustyTrashenborough]

3 hours ago, maturin said:

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

 

And if 'the masts would break', how on earth do you imagine ships were ever careened? By definition, this involved tipping the ship over by pulling on the masts.

It seems most of these refers to capsizing during storms, and the two papers suggests capsizing with of around 20knots or more. Don't the devs mean, capsizing in fairwind just from the sailforce in that condition alone?