Trying to solve revenge fleet problem

[Vllad]

40 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

I ask you this however, why is there not room for both kinds of players? To me it sounds like your saying this game is a pure RvR game and that my type of player isn't welcome anymore... 

Actually I just asked you the same question. I am not calling for the removal of solo player mechanics. The people who are alienating other players are those solo players out there who want mechanics built just so they can solo. Anyone who complains about revenge fleets are the ones saying their isn't room enough for both types.

Their is room for both but just like every game made before NA if you chose to solo in a multi player game then accept the consequences if you get caught solo by large groups.

[Liq]

6 minutes ago, Vllad said:

 

Their is room for both but just like every game made before NA if you chose to solo in a multi player game then accept the consequences if you get caught solo by large groups.

Obviously if they get you in open world in the first place, good on them, noone would be complaining.

However since we've got two dimensions, 75x compressed OW in speed / size, and battle isntances, having to deal with fallout connies is as unrealistic / dumb as it gets.

Name one other MMO where you've got those two instances, and can camp in the compressed one on a battle location?

We've got a 3 min join timer to declare whetehr or not help is in range. 3 minutes is plenty.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Liquicity

[TommyShelby]

Just now, Vllad said:

Actually I just asked you the same question. I am not calling for the removal of solo player mechanics. The people who are alienating other players are those solo players out there who want mechanics built just so they can solo. Anyone who complains about revenge fleets are the ones saying their isn't room enough for both types.

Their is room for both but just like every game made before NA if you chose to solo in a multi player game then accept the consequences if you get caught solo by large groups.

There is a difference between being caught by large groups and being served on a silver platter to the large groups. 

I don't know if you've actually read through the topic but every single one of the people arguing against revenge fleets also state that they are completely fine with the fact that they may be caught by a larger group in the OW. 

We have to work for our kills, we have to scour the OW looking for targets. Whether we gank or only do "fair fights" we have to work for it. 
Revenge fleets just use the disrepancy in time compression between Battle Instances and OW to sail at hyper speed to a battle location and wait for their target to come out of the battle so they can gank him. 
This doesn't leave much room for solo players and small groups. 

Do you not see the issue here? 

Again, we understand that going into enemy territory may end up with us being outnumbered and "ganked". That is fair and makes sense. However revenge fleets camping outside battles doesn't make any friggin sense and does not in any way help gameplay. 

[PG Monkey]

3 minutes is more than enough for people to be able to help each other, its probably about 3 hours in ow time..so if your'e not close enough when the battle starts why should you be able to engage hyperspace and expect then enemy to still be there when it finishes?

[Hodo]

1 minute ago, PG Monkey said:

3 minutes is more than enough for people to be able to help each other, its probably about 3 hours in ow time..so if your'e not close enough when the battle starts why should you be able to engage hyperspace and expect then enemy to still be there when it finishes?

I find it funny that people think 3 min is not enough time to get to the fight.  IF you werent in sight of the battle to start with then you dont need to be joining the fight.  IF you were out of position when the fight started and it takes you longer than 3 minutes to sail to the fight, then you dont need to be in it.    IF you have no life and want to wait outside the fight till it is over instead of hunting for other fights, then that says you really dont want to fight or are scared to hunt alone.

Sorry but I often hunt by myself, and the trick is simple.   Right tool for the right job.  Dont go hunting in a ship you cant run in.   DONT go hunting things you cant take alone.  DONT go hunting in enemy waters and not expect reprisals.   

I enjoy the PMs and the global tears as I scream in cap and sink a couple of ships my Lynx outside of their home ports, then fly away from the slow revenge fleet.  I should honestly save the screenshots of the PMs I have gotten from people.  "Comeback and fight someone your own size" - While he is sailing a Constitution and I am in a Lynx.   

 

[Vllad]

8 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

Do you not see the issue here? 

Again, we understand that going into enemy territory may end up with us being outnumbered and "ganked". That is fair and makes sense. However revenge fleets camping outside battles doesn't make any friggin sense and does not in any way help gameplay. 

Yes, I do see the issue here.

Instant combat makes it harder to solo in NA than other games. However instants are NEVER going away and no amount of developer solutions are going to defeat voice com's to set up revenge fleets. Instead of asking for the developers to adjust I am suggesting that players just take care of the problems themselves.

NA provides everything you need to defeat revenge fleets. Why not use them?

[TommyShelby]

18 minutes ago, Vllad said:

Yes, I do see the issue here.

Instant combat makes it harder to solo in NA than other games. However instants are NEVER going away and no amount of developer solutions are going to defeat voice com's to set up revenge fleets. Instead of asking for the developers to adjust I am suggesting that players just take care of the problems themselves.

NA provides everything you need to defeat revenge fleets. Why not use them?

Devs surely have the tool to fix the issue of revenge fleets. Otherwise how come we did not have revenge fleet for over a year?...

It was an issue once before and it was fixed once before lol

Edited June 29, 2017 by TommyShelby

[elite92]

10 minutes ago, Vllad said:

Yes, I do see the issue here.

Instant combat makes it harder to solo in NA than other games. However instants are NEVER going away and no amount of developer solutions are going to defeat voice com's to set up revenge fleets. Instead of asking for the developers to adjust I am suggesting that players just take care of the problems themselves.

NA provides everything you need to defeat revenge fleets. Why not use them?

u simply dont get the point vllad...

tommy, liq, me, and tons of players in NA are severely hurt by the actual game mechanics not because we are fool that run in front of enemy capitals and then we cry in chat BUT because the free tp between national ports and the time compression of the OW itself make the revenge fleet an easy and "risk-free / 95% win" thing.

we love to (or at least i used to) find PvP near more populated areas of the map , and we have make many nice battles in front of capitals and also in the middle of nowhere, many times outgunned and outnumber and thus we sink BUT, we enjoyed this and no1 was whining because of the loss.

now with forts, fleets, PvE grind and other BS its hard enough to find PvP (in a PvP-server), and then they add the possibility to easy camp the battle instance and they remove completely the after battle pause and/or log off...

1: 30 min-1 hour only to find PvP

2: 1v1? he run, 10 min of chasing then he find forts/ports/big fleets

3: they are many: u run, same bs as before, re-start from point 1

4: they are not so many: u fight outgunned and outnumbered and maybe u win in a battle that last 1+ hours because of infinite repairs

5: u are forced to OW after the battle no matter if ur grandmother is sick

6: 10 players are outside the battle in ow waiting for u in all direction, when u load the ow u have only 15-20 sec of invis left and maybe also a bad wind, they get u almost for sure the others can join in 3 mins

6-1: u have other repairs: maybe u leave and and start from point 5

6-2: no repairs: u are dead

 

lost ship, upgrades, patience, time and also some health cause of stress.

 

u, as a RvR player/ BIG clan player u will never understand us, so dont try to, no1 is asking for u help here, go grind some bot in PvE then fight an empty port battle.

im tired, waiting for Legends.

[Liq]

 

[Vllad]

20 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

Otherwise how come we did not have revenge fleet for over a year?...

Revenge fleets have existed as long as I have been playing this game a year ago February. They will always exist as long as we have instance combat. They are actually a good thing for RvR and PVP as long as you adapt and use them appropriately.

[Tomms123]

1 minute ago, Vllad said:

Revenge fleets have existed as long as I have been playing this game a year ago February. They will always exist as long as we have instance combat. They are actually a good thing for RvR and PVP as long as you adapt and use them appropriately.

NO, they're def not a good thing for either RvR or PvP.

[TommyShelby]

2 minutes ago, Vllad said:

Revenge fleets have existed as long as I have been playing this game a year ago February. They will always exist as long as we have instance combat. They are actually a good thing for RvR and PVP as long as you adapt and use them appropriately.

Okay lets get 2 things straight here. 

1. When we say "revenge fleets" we are referring to the fleets that camp outside ongoing battles waiting for easy ganks. 
2. No, it is not good for PvP.

Now i have a question. What do you mean when you say "adapt and use them appropriately". (I will not agree but i'm curious as to why you think so)

[Hethwill]

I think Vllad is referring to "bring more force" to a show of force.

[Hodo]

3 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

Okay lets get 2 things straight here. 

1. When we say "revenge fleets" we are referring to the fleets that camp outside ongoing battles waiting for easy ganks. 
2. No, it is not good for PvP.

Now i have a question. What do you mean when you say "adapt and use them appropriately". (I will not agree but i'm curious as to why you think so)

 

I am of the same view point as Vlad.  You have to adapt to the changing tactics.  I hate revenge fleets but it is easy to avoid them if you plan properly from the start.  I generally dont tag a ship in sight of other ships.  I wont jump someone right outside their capital unless I am sure I can get away, like when I am sailing my Lynx or a Privateer.    I dont understand how hard these things are for people to understand.  

You come out of battle you have 30seconds.  Pick a direction that is your best point of sail and their weakest, and put some distance between you and the gank fleet.  

 

The bigger problem is the tag'em till they rage quit tactic.  I personally refuse to tag someone again if they have gotten way from me the first time in battle.  Because I dont want someone to keep tagging me in OW wasting my time and theirs just to annoy the piss out of me.

[elite92]

Just now, Hodo said:

 

I am of the same view point as Vlad.  You have to adapt to the changing tactics.  I hate revenge fleets but it is easy to avoid them if you plan properly from the start.  I generally dont tag a ship in sight of other ships.  I wont jump someone right outside their capital unless I am sure I can get away, like when I am sailing my Lynx or a Privateer.    I dont understand how hard these things are for people to understand.  

You come out of battle you have 30seconds.  Pick a direction that is your best point of sail and their weakest, and put some distance between you and the gank fleet.  

 

The bigger problem is the tag'em till they rage quit tactic.  I personally refuse to tag someone again if they have gotten way from me the first time in battle.  Because I dont want someone to keep tagging me in OW wasting my time and theirs just to annoy the piss out of me.

forced to play in a privateer or forced to play with a big clan?

no, thx , i will wait arena

[TommyShelby]

2 hours ago, TommyShelby said:

Yes, because the OW PvP'ers (Small group and Solo) are forced to do one of the following things:
1. Sail tiny Fore-Aft vessels. 
2. Look for PvP in places where you'll be lucky to find a player during a 5 hours session. 
3. Join a big clan. 

The above options are ridicoulus. Your forcing us out of the game with this attitude of yours. (You don't see small group and solo players try to force Big group and RvR focused players out of the game do you?) 

 

[fox2run]

6 minutes ago, elite92 said:

forced to play in a privateer or forced to play with a big clan?

no, thx , i will wait arena

Bullseye!

[Hodo]

8 minutes ago, elite92 said:

forced to play in a privateer or forced to play with a big clan?

no, thx , i will wait arena

Then sail in a ship that is faster.  You want to be a "privateer" but refuse to use the tool that was used by them.  Odd but whatever.   

I know of another guy who does quite well in a Renomee hunting, and I know I have seen a Snow that was faster upwind than most 5th rates.   So again... your tactics are bad it isnt the games fault.  

And perhaps Arena games are more your style anyway.  Not everyone likes dealing with the chance of fighting outnumbered or having to use actual naval strategy and tactics to prevail and they just want to mindlessly slam balls into each other.  

[TommyShelby]

Just now, Hodo said:

Then sail in a ship that is faster.  You want to be a "privateer" but refuse to use the tool that was used by them.  Odd but whatever.   

I know of another guy who does quite well in a Renomee hunting, and I know I have seen a Snow that was faster upwind than most 5th rates.   So again... your tactics are bad it isnt the games fault.  

And perhaps Arena games are more your style anyway.  Not everyone likes dealing with the chance of fighting outnumbered or having to use actual naval strategy and tactics to prevail and they just want to mindlessly slam balls into each other.  

Lol. It doesn't help that your in a 15knt Reno, Surp, or Snow. (Tried and tested). 

The enemy will bring 5+ 15knt Surps, atleast 1 or 2 15knt Reno's. Its idiot proof, you cannot escape this unless your in a Fore-Aft Vessel (And even then you might not be able to get away if they have any clue on how to Revenge fleet properly. 

You know, i'm starting to get really tired of this whole Arena game thing. Elite, like myself and a lot of others, prefer to fight outnumbered. We love the OW gameplay, why else would we have several thousand hours in Naval Action?... 
 

[Sureshot]

1 minute ago, Hodo said:

Then sail in a ship that is faster.  You want to be a "privateer" but refuse to use the tool that was used by them.  Odd but whatever.   

I know of another guy who does quite well in a Renomee hunting, and I know I have seen a Snow that was faster upwind than most 5th rates.   So again... your tactics are bad it isnt the games fault.  

If a revenge fleet knows what they are doing, they can catch anything. Surround you from every side, spawn right beside you and chain you down or knock a mast over. 

Quote

And perhaps Arena games are more your style anyway.  Not everyone likes dealing with the chance of fighting outnumbered or having to use actual naval strategy and tactics to prevail and they just want to mindlessly slam balls into each other.  

The problem is revenge fleets right. Revenge fleets didn't exist in the age of sail. Revenge fleets don't take skill and you can abuse the OW mechanics to death so any speed ship cannot escape. If you are suggesting people go to arena because they don't want easily abused mechanics and unrealistic revenge fleets than I guess I can't really help you there.

[Vernon Merrill]

God some people are hello kittying stupid....   it's not about having a "faster ship" when everyone is sailing around in speed-capped ships....

 

[elite92]

15 minutes ago, Hodo said:

And perhaps Arena games are more your style anyway.  Not everyone likes dealing with the chance of fighting outnumbered or having to use actual naval strategy and tactics to prevail and they just want to mindlessly slam balls into each other.  

 

[Iroquois Confederacy]

Revenge Fleets make no sense in any context.  Ultimately, it comes down to two sides:

"I don't see the problem," (people who have never been involved in one)

"This is a huge problem!" (everyone that has been in one, on either end)

Truly.  Even those participating in revenge fleets know it's a huge issue.  Anything else is just willful obtuseness.

[Iroquois Confederacy]

I've yet to see a cogent argument for revenge fleets.  Many against, and a few people that are neutral on it.

[Hethwill]

neutral-against#find-a-level-field-that-doesnt-take-ships-away-from-the-ow