Timber Feedback Thread - PINNED

[Atimk]

1 hour ago, Nixolai said:

lol... new woods are a great way to get even richer 

You mean like this? /s Buy in Mara, sell in port to Caracas? /s It's a bit of the waste tho...

[Redman29]

1 minute ago, Atimk said:

You mean like this? /s Buy in Mara, sell in port to Caracas? /s It's a bit of the waste tho...

Well yeah, that's because they decided to sail literally 6 ports over and make 5k profit. But imagine sailing from Oranjested or Road Town to Bermuda and netting 25-30k profit per log 

[Nixolai]

18 minutes ago, Atimk said:

You mean like this? /s Buy in Mara, sell in port to Caracas? /s It's a bit of the waste tho...

Tho... the stuff sells for more in VC

[Redman29]

12 hours ago, admin said:

We don't hide this fact.
New woods are a great way to extract reals from rich players. Wood supply is SO limited that they wont have any real influence on the overall pvp. Based on your comments you are on PVE so not sure how you are affected by the these woods. Remember you can trade in safety.

The issue is that with the changes is the rich got a lot richer.

Looking at supply and demand, simply put some of these woods are not worth 10k per log. Greenheart was selling for 6-8k per log before. Danzig Oak in the 4-6k range, same with Riga Fir. They were accessible to many players in which supply and demand drove the price and now the minimum buy price for them is simply not worth buying it to build a ship out of. 

With that said I have huge concerns in regards to NPC buys prices for the new woods. If today is evidence for some woods they are much more useful as trade goods in selling to the NPC rather than actual woods for ship building. 

These are just some examples, I have much more and we have seen some such as the Caracas screenshot. The prices of these logs are are continuing to rise and in my opinion mostly going up not because they are valued in shipbuilding but because you can sell them for insane amount of money to the NPC. 

KPR is a perfect example as players who I have never seen place buy contracts for Greenheart started today of all days after the price to buy them doubled. As long as you can buy for 20k you are still able to make 5-10k profit for log depending on the sail. And then one has to account for the weight as since these woods are treated as shipbuiding resources they weigh 1 ton. 2 Indianman's full of these logs can sell at the right ports for 150 Million and if you buy at 15k per log you are looking at 60 Mil profit, 30 Mil profit if you buy at 20k per log and this is with 2 Indianman's. A single Trader Lynx can carry enough goods to make 15 Million, 7.5 Mil profit if you buy at 15k per log. To compare this, a few weeks ago, Anolytic posted the video of the treasure fleet that sailed from Vera Cruz to Bermuda and back. That fleet consisted of 62 Indianman's and sold it's goods for 300 Mil, with a profit of say 260 Million, which requires extensive work on the players part. Why would I use these woods for shipbuilding when I can make insane profit from such little work compared to trade goods. Unless the price got so high there is no longer any profit margin. And at that point, there is no point in using the wood for a ship because it would be too expensive to risk losing, I mean 17.5 Mil for the frame parts of a Connie if you buy at 30k per log which is the highest you can sell the wood at to the NPC. 

@admin Question is are these woods going to be treated like a trade good or as a crafting resource? I would suggest that the ability to sell these woods to the NPC for profit should be removed and treated like all the other shipbuilding resources. Otherwise, the richer players are going to use these woods as an easier way to make more money and not for their intended purpose which is shipbuilding. 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Redman29

[Farrago]

38 minutes ago, Redman29 said:

The issue is that with the changes the rich get a lot richer.

Looking at supply and demand, simply put some of these woods are not worth 10k per log. Greenheart was selling for 6-8k per log before. Danzig Oak in the 4-6k range, same with Riga Fir. They were accessible to many players in which supply and demand drove the price and now the minimum buy price for them is simply not worth buying it to build a ship out of. 

With that said I have huge concerns in regards to NPC buys prices for the new woods. If today is evidence for some woods they are much more useful as trade goods in selling to the NPC rather than actual woods for ship building. 

These are just some examples, I have much more and we have seen some such as the Caracas screenshot. The prices of these logs are are continuing to rise and in my opinion mostly going up not because they are valued in shipbuilding but because you can sell them for insane amount of money to the NPC. 

KPR is a perfect example as players who I have never seen place buy contracts for Greenheart started today of all days after the price to buy them doubled. As long as you can buy for 20k you are still able to make 5-10k profit for log depending on the sail. And then one has to account for the weight as since these woods are treated as shipbuiding resources they weigh 1 ton. 2 Indianman's full of these logs can sell at the right ports for 150 Million and if you buy at 15k per log you are looking at 60 Mil profit, 30 Mil profit if you buy at 20k per log and this is with 2 Indianman's. A single Trader Lynx can carry enough goods to make 15 Million, 7.5 Mil profit if you buy at 15k per log. To compare this, a few weeks ago, Anolytic posted the video of the treasure fleet that sailed from Vera Cruz to Bermuda and back. That fleet consisted of 62 Indianman's and sold it's goods for 300 Mil, with a profit of say 260 Million, which requires extensive work on the players part. Why would I use these woods for shipbuilding when I can make insane profit from such little work compared to trade goods. Unless the price got so high there is no longer any profit margin. And at that point, there is no point in using the wood for a ship because it would be too expensive to risk losing, I mean 17.5 Mil for the frame parts of a Connie if you buy at 30k per log which is the highest you can sell the wood at. 

@admin Question is are these woods going to be treated like a trade good or as a crafting resource? I would suggest that the ability to sell these woods to the NPC for profit should be removed and treated like all the other shipbuilding resources. Otherwise, the richer players are going to use these woods as an easier way to make more money and not for their intended purpose which is shipbuilding. 

I agree. The prices are insane. I play at least 10-15 hours per week, sometimes a lot more and will never be able to afford them.

But on the other hand, you just described a lot of targets too. 

[TPS Report]

12 hours ago, admin said:

We don't hide this fact.
New woods are a great way to extract reals from rich players. Wood supply is SO limited that they wont have any real influence on the overall pvp. Based on your comments you are on PVE so not sure how you are affected by the these woods. Remember you can trade in safety.

Problem is for small nations, a max meta build can be made practically uncatchable and that build can run unopposed for hours along their coast, fast enough to dictate every engagement.  Before you had seasoned fir connies, now you have Rangoon teak connies, or we will soon, and those will be limited to not small nation people.  It really feels like you want all the players into the four big nations who control the center of the map, and to hell with us little folks.  I mean, I had to buy two alt accounts to get access to decent mods and not have to keep la tortur as a port.

[admin]

6 hours ago, Redman29 said:

 

The prices of these logs are are continuing to rise and in my opinion mostly going up not because they are valued in shipbuilding but because you can sell them for insane amount of money to the NPC. Do you think people cant calculate hogsheads into 

 

How can you make money (even at current prices) with buying at 47 at bridge town and selling at 30 (current price at flatts for example)?
Is it some kind of multilayered space math?  

[Vibrio Cholerae]

9 minutes ago, admin said:

How can you make money (even at current prices) with buying at 47 at bridge town and selling at 30 (current price at flatts for example)?
Is it some kind of space math? I have the 18th century arithmetic book even then they could subtract and even calculate hogsheads and bushels 

For exemple I have bought 6000 greenhearts log at bridg for 4000 a log I can know sell it at 32’000 reals a log at Bermuda which mean 192millions in 1,5 indiaman and with that I can buy 15000 log at 12800 reals 

To quote a big mathematician :

Two plus two is four, minus one that's three, quick maths

-big shaq 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Vibrio Cholerae

[admin]

54 minutes ago, Vibrio Cholerae said:

For exemple I have bought 6000 greenhearts log at bridg for 4000 a log I can know sell it at 32’000 reals a log at Bermuda which mean 192millions in 1,5 indiaman and with that I can buy 15000 log at 12800 reals 

 

that is correct
i was talking about that redmans screenshot

he said price growth to 47000 is happening on malabar and malabar is so high because its so profitable to trade it

so you have not answered the question in reality
how is it profitable to trade malabar at 47 and selling it at 30

 

btw.. you also owe us a tribunal report on exploits found in flags - there is a time stamp on this request. Dont forget please.

 

[Malcolm3]

1 hour ago, admin said:

How can you make money (even at current prices) with buying at 47 at bridge town and selling at 30 (current price at flatts for example)?
Is it some kind of multilayered space math?  

Obviously that wasn't his point, his screen was to illustrate selling prices for Rare woods, cause prices in ports with that Woods to drop is much lower.
You just quoted him out of context for your own purpose.

But I support his view - with recent changes rare woods are becoming money-printing machine. Exactly as he said here:

6 hours ago, Redman29 said:

KPR is a perfect example as players who I have never seen place buy contracts for Greenheart started today of all days after the price to buy them doubled. As long as you can buy for 20k you are still able to make 5-10k profit for log depending on the sail. And then one has to account for the weight as since these woods are treated as shipbuiding resources they weigh 1 ton. 2 Indianman's full of these logs can sell at the right ports for 150 Million and if you buy at 15k per log you are looking at 60 Mil profit, 30 Mil profit if you buy at 20k per log and this is with 2 Indianman's. A single Trader Lynx can carry enough goods to make 15 Million, 7.5 Mil profit if you buy at 15k per log. To compare this, a few weeks ago, Anolytic posted the video of the treasure fleet that sailed from Vera Cruz to Bermuda and back. That fleet consisted of 62 Indianman's and sold it's goods for 300 Mil, with a profit of say 260 Million, which requires extensive work on the players part. Why would I use these woods for shipbuilding when I can make insane profit from such little work compared to trade goods. Unless the price got so high there is no longer any profit margin. And at that point, there is no point in using the wood for a ship because it would be too expensive to risk losing, I mean 17.5 Mil for the frame parts of a Connie if you buy at 30k per log which is the highest you can sell the wood at to the NPC. 

That's Kingston shop today. As you can see buying price is around 17k for a log (people already put contracts)

And that's Belize shop also today - selling prices (to port, as there are no contracts) for a log are 22k

So buy there just a 200-300 logs (3.5 - 5.1 mil), load then on a Trader Lynx, take around 30-40 min to sail and get 4.4-6.6 mil with around 1-1.5 mil profit. Almost without any danger and need of mighty Indiaman trade fleets with escorts.
(and sailing to Vera Cruz or New Orlean can give you much more money)
Also because the starting expenses are high only player already rich enough can make such profits.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Malcolm3

[admin]

5 minutes ago, Malcolm3 said:

Obviously that wasn't his point, his screen was to illustrate selling prices for Rare woods, cause prices in ports with that Woods to drop is much lower.
You just quoted him out of context for your own purpose.

 

@Redman29 is a good guy and was not quoted out of context. Prices for some woods allow trading opportunities, i was wondering just about the malabar teak at 47000, there are no trading opportunities for malabar teak at such price. 

On the other woods the example is noted. It only appeared since last hotfix.

[Frosty]

The problem is that everyone bought them for lower prices for over a month. Prices skyrocketed only yesterday, cause someone realised it was worth selling and there was a bidding war.
I made 60 millions by selling 3k logs yesterday, but won't do as much next time. I sold some Danzic Oak and some Riga Fir which I had bought for 3k, but now they cost a lot more.

Anyway, I'd like everyone to buy the new woods cause they have interesting stats, not because they sell for lots of money. Maybe stats for some woods are not as good as others. For instance, Riga Fir sounds useless to me. You want super speed? Go for Fir S Fir S. You want your ship to be tanky? Teak/ White or Live/ White. Riga fir does have some speed bonus, but nothing special, while being incredibly squishier. 

Danzic Oak, on the other hand, is similar to a White Oak and I bought it as it was cheaper, even though it is clearly worse in every aspect. Now that it is 10k per log base price? Nope. Not gonna keep it, I'll probably just sell it and buy some White Oak S elsewhere, for a lot less money.

Can't talk about the other woods as I have no access to them. African Teak And Malabar Teak sound awesome though, so of course their prices are high af.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Frosty

[Malcolm3]

6 minutes ago, admin said:

i was wondering just about the malabar teak at 47000, there are no trading opportunities for malabar teak at such price. 

No wonder - he was selling logs there, in Vera Cruz (there is only buying price shown as he flooded the market, but real sell price is 28.9k in Vera Cruz), not buying them in Bridgetown (also here using of rule#6 detected, BTW)

2 minutes ago, admin said:

On the other woods the example is noted. It only appeared since last hotfix.

Also it's interesting, that selling price for Moulmein Teak and Danzig Fir are still quite low (1.5k for a log in Belize and SdC)

[Jan van Santen]

17 hours ago, admin said:

New woods are a great way to extract reals from rich players

How do you extract money from rich people in real life w/o makeing them unhappy (taxes...) ?

Not by selling essentials, but by selling bling bling. Easy to copy in game.....

Sell flags, name plates, titles....any kind of vanity stuff. Doesn't influence the game at all, just tickles their ego.

Do what you started with flags for 50K dubs, but do it right this time (flags dont show in ow, thus no bling effect)  and with more choice of bling bling....

Eg after each won pb i get a mail" you are now viscount of...." , so why don't you offer me to show one of them titles for 50M reales ????

Or to recycle one of my old suggetions: introduce quality improvement items into the game which come at a massive reales cost. 

Eg the "extractor" (allows to extract a trim (eg very fast) from one ship and transfer it to an other of same rank. 

Eg I have a nice purple Impla, which unfortunately comes with "strong rig" (as usefull as a boars tits on pve). So i remove that with one extractor, with a second one i remove "very fast from an other 3rd rate and attach that to my Impla...

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Jan van Santen

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

17 hours ago, Karvala said:

I get that you want to take reals off rich players and that's fine, but with the seasoned woods it's in exchange for offering the best to only those players.  Newer or even long-standing but poorer players aspire to sail the best ships too - it shouldn't be easy but neither should it require literally months of grinding to be able to obtain even one

We have to look at the exotic RARE woods strictly as a luxury item.

Just like in real world, "the rich" will be those who enjoy the luxuries the most. If you like it or not, that is the privilege of money to spend. However, we do not suffer really if we can't afford a rare wood ship every week. We will still have one of them, once a month perhaps. Depends how much we are desiring to own the "best" ships and are ready to do more trading for it, collecting money.

Meanwhile we still have almost as good ships in regular wood, or even seasoned wood (not long ago that was the "best" everyone wanted), packed with port boni, and they will succeed in sinking enemy.

I am also a bit shocked about new prices starting at 10.000 reals per log. But did the community not claim until recently "reals are worthless" and "there is nothing to buy for reals" or even "economy is dead"? Here you have a reason to empty your millions and billions' worth of money chest. Money got a new use. For an expensive hobby. Not for everyone. But nobody misses game content who cannot afford that de luxe hobby right now, or only with delay, needing more time until having collected enough logs.

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

13 hours ago, Mannow said:

someone in my clan has already made 2 african teak santis.

... because he was willing to spend 40000 - 65000 reals per log. That is his choice, but not many will agree to spend that much for a Santisima. Which will one day sink just like any other Santisima.

[mikawa]

I do not bother with woods anymore. I'll use the ones I have handy atm and craft a ship of them. These prices are way to high for me to afford a ship with new woods.

[Redman29]

4 hours ago, admin said:

@Redman29 is a good guy and was not quoted out of context. Prices for some woods allow trading opportunities, i was wondering just about the malabar teak at 47000, there are no trading opportunities for malabar teak at such price. 

On the other woods the example is noted. It only appeared since last hotfix.

Sorry, should've added a little more info on that screenshot. I used that one to demonstrate how the market was flooded by people liquidating their rare woods assets due to the high buy price of the NPC. 

That's Vera Cruz today for example. 

Compared to the buy price at KPR.

If you buy at 17.5k per log you can still make a profit if you sell it at Vera Cruz, of around 9-10k per log. So a 5/5 TLynx that can go 17 knots with 500 tons loaded can make a profit of around 4.5-5 Mil. 

What's really bad about this is that all the ports have good prices from the NPC. As the logic in game is the further the sail the higher the price. So there are ports that are hardly ever used by anyone that are buying for 29-30k per log. At least with trade goods you can predict the route in which traders take as most trade between capital to capital. With the rare logs you can choose any port, regardless if it is a capital or not and for the most part avoid those players that hunt traders as there is no predictable pattern compared to trade goods. 

Take a British player for example. He can buy the rare logs in KPR and as long as he gets them at 20k or lower, he can then sail to San Fernando (In the Gulf), which is hardly ever used and sell the goods for 3.5 Mil profit and in a TLynx that's a comparably quick sail. And with Trader Lynx's the risk is little to none as there's only a handful of ships that can catch it and unless you have one of those ships most players pay you no attention. Yeah they might turn towards you to see if you are afk but once you turn off they keep going on their way. 

It also have ramification on the player driven economy. As if I can sail the woods to a port in which the NPC buys for 30k per log, then why would I sell to a player for anything less than 29k. And for rich players this is just supplemental income. It takes say a day or 2 for a contract to fill, and in that time they continue trading, making more money, and then when their contract for 500 logs is filled make and easy 3-5 Mil with little to no effort or risk and just repeat every other day. One could average around 10-15 Mil per week just from buying and selling rare woods from NPC to NPC, this on top of the income you get from trade goods and other trading. 

I believe in these items being treated like shipbuilding resources, but the NPC prices dissuade the use of these in shipbuilding and promote their use as a trade good, also in which it is treated different than all other shipbuilding resources. That compounded with the the minimum price being 10k, the minimum price for the frame of a Connie being 6 Mil, for planking an additional 6 Mil. So if you can get a wood for the bare minimum you are looking at 12 Mil for just the wood for a Connie. In reality the woods are running 17-20k which means 10 - 12 Mil just for the frame parts for a Connie, 20 - 24 Mil for both frame and planking. Even for the richer players, those prices are simply not worth it to use in building a ship out of, so better to buy and sell to the NPC.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Redman29

[admin]

22 minutes ago, Redman29 said:

Sorry, should've added a little more info on that screenshot. I used that one to demonstrate how the market was flooded by people liquidating their rare woods assets due to the high buy price of the NPC. 

 

Yes we identified the problem.  This will be fixed tomorrow (not today because the supply is very limited, so won't affect the money supply so much).
Trading woods will not be so profitable at long distances compared to other goods (like jewels). 
 

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

Feel invited to make price for a rare wood sort connected with interest in the playerbase, rather than 10.000 reals across the board for every rare wood.

I am sure there is statistic material how much of each sort got sold. Some like crazy (african teak), some not much (italian larch).

Now prices could get adjusted to that demand, manually or by automatism (program). Less bought wood dropping in port price, highly demanded wood raising in port price. All within reasonable parameters of course. For example port price never exceeding 15.000 reals as minimum bid. On the low end, never going below the original 3.000 reals.

Player contracts will follow their own laws anyway.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Cetric de Cornusiac

[Louis Garneray]

So far I had no access to those exotic woods.... I'm stuck with seasoned woods that take a lot of hours to make.

And since wood stats are still changing I'm not inclined to build ships that could become useless for my purpose (mostly pvp).

So please next time you want to change things, use a test server with redeemable ships with every wood so we can test it properly ( and give ship notes to people who participate in their "home" server).

 

[Louis Garneray]

And man... I must be one of the unlucky with my ships every time I break one I get something like that.

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Louis Garneray

[Malcolm3]

1 minute ago, Louis Garneray said:

And man... I must be one of the unlucky with my ships every time I break one I get something like tat.

That was nerfed after everyone realized that they can get 700 Seasoned logs from breaking up DLC Victory + usual RNG

[Conte D. Catellani]

Why not copy the container system from wows instead broking DLC ships?

You could make it just in PVP server and don't mean if you lose or you win, anyways you will receive chests. 

I'm thus way rich and skilled people will have a prize as always and loser one too, with a chance to sell the stuff inside and buy an other good ship. 

[Louis Garneray]

11 minutes ago, Malcolm3 said:

That was nerfed after everyone realized that they can get 700 Seasoned logs from breaking up DLC Victory + usual RNG

even before it was nerfed I was already nerfed