Timber Feedback Thread - PINNED

[DonH]

@admin Mahogany -10 repair time... Mahogany S +- 0, is it not meant to be the other way around??? S wood should be better than the regular one?

Edited June 26, 2020 by DonH

[ChineseBatman]

On 6/25/2020 at 4:38 PM, admin said:

We are working in timber changes and plan to deploy them soon.

To avoid the back and forth the patch will only deploy after full review - The final stat proposal will be posted when ready.
 

And this is why no one can believe you Admin. The constant changes where not supposed to happen until full review and posting the changes before the update. Yet today yet again the circus continues with woods stats changing willy nilly. No post to update us of what on earth you are doing. More messing us about. 🤦‍♂️

Edited June 26, 2020 by ChineseBatman

[SeaBrig]

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I do have to agree that the woods that only drop in non-captured ports need to be spread out a bit.   This making it so only certain nations gets one type of wood can bring an unfair advantage.  I don't mind the fact the impossible nations don't get any cause they don't have capitals (I mean they are suppose to be hard mode after all), but the spread between the traditional Nations isn't exactly fair.  Hell does Swedes or Dane even have any over in there area?  I know Spanish is totally screwed with no woods at all dropping in there area.

the problem i have with this is that the game devs never tweak stuff enough so for instance certain woods or cannons have the proper counter towards other ships. Imagine if the live oak only grew in North America, only available for clans that crafted ships up there unless you traded the woods to different areas, and if people were fighting you with blomefields got a bonus against that type of wood for instance higher splinter damage vs live oak, and had much higher chance to drop around panama or some other area far away from the live oak, that would give it a directly contender.

I feel the game is missing out on balances like these so there would always be a counter to something. Like you play rock, paper, scissor where one thing would always beat the other and there isn't one of those three that would always win.

Edited June 26, 2020 by SeaBrig

[Slim McSauce]

Yes. Are new woods necessary? We already had nearly every facet covered. Not sure why, but this seems like filler.
Maybe someone will disagree but I don't see any expansive benefit, just more number crunching.

[Rolando]

9 hours ago, Ink said:

Капитан, саранча похожа на живой дуб. Живой дуб имеет немного большую толщину корпуса

Вы и правда считает, что микроскопическое преимущество 2% в толщине мачты (пробиваемой одинаково под любым углом расположения кораблей) равнозначны -2,5% к толщине корпуса - чуть отвернуть бортом и пробоя нет? А скорость теперь одинакова, хотя ранее Кагуар (теперешний Locust) был быстрее на 3,5%! 

Где дропается свободно Живой дуб - в Сан Августине у Штатов. Где Locust? В Каракасе у Голландии и в Сент-Джонсе у Швеции. Где же дропается Белый Дуб, у корабля из которого есть теперь положительный  бонус к скорости (а ранее - отрицательный на 3,5%)? в Новом Орлеане у РИ.

Вы можете более завуалировано подыгрывать определенным нациям?

Edited June 26, 2020 by Rolando

[admin]

16 hours ago, Lieste said:

Lignum Vitae is too useful as a self-lubricating timber important for block making, to be wasted on hull structure.

In the practical cases of Oak vs Fir... I see a spread of density reported for both - 40-60 cu ft per Long ton for Oak, 49-68 cu ft for Fir. Even at 60 vs 49 cu ft per ton, the difference is not huge, and a 10% higher scantling will absorb the highest difference entirely.

The thickest part of a ship is at the waterline, a thickness of 21.5" for a super heavy frigate of external 44'8" beam being a useful example. This is around 8%, so more closely approximating a hollow shell, than a "solid block". A 10% increase in scantlings for the 'shell alone' would give only  a 10% increase in shell mass just under half the maximum deficit (ignoring for now that much of the internal planking is fir or pine for both), but if there are frame spaces then scantling can increase in both dimensions and the overall increase in shell mass might reach 15% (planking is already tight, so there is no scope to add strength by using this surface).

Deck beams, and all other 'open framed' structures can have the smaller increase in both moulding and breadth, and any quickwork on the 'heavier' ship is already in the 'lighter' materials.
 

we all know the uses of lignum
I asked that question to pinpoint the problem in your comment

Quote

A thousand tons of fir weigh the same as a thousand tons of oak. It just takes a little more volume.

Here is why it matters
Because of wood gravity (density) if weight is equal THEN size will be different.

Example
Of course people used varied woods but for the purity of the example lets say you can only use one

If you only have 2 types of timber - light fir (30 per cubic f) and heavy timber (59 per cubic f), equal tons of logs of each type

You want to build a keel for a 50 meter ship
Because of weight difference (density) you will be able to build a 50 keel from light fir
But you will only make a 25 meter keel from heavy timber, as due to density (gravity factor) you will actually have almost 2x less logs
This difference is not minor

 

[admin]

18 hours ago, Despe said:

o7 Ink

Locust is not usable now... Live oak is better in all.

I dont see that looking at numbers. Live oak has less HP and less mast thickness. Live oak is better in hull thickness only and worse in hp and mast thickness.

[admin]

14 hours ago, ChineseBatman said:

No post to update us of what on earth you are doing.

Highly doubtful

here is from the post on thursday - in this topic. A day before the locust tune
 

Quote

Locust - will similar to live oak but with more HP but less thickness for hull, but slightly more for masts
Sabicu - will be similar to white oak but more HP and less thickness for hull, but slightly more for masts
Mahogany - will be similar to Teak but with less thickness but more splinter damage resistance 

These changes were reviewed thoroughly and deployed.
 

[Sir Texas Sir]

43 minutes ago, admin said:

If you only have 2 types of timber - light fir (30 per cubic f) and heavy timber (59 per cubic f), equal tons of logs of each type

 

off topic but this line made me pull out my riggers card as I remember it being 32 and 62 for Fir and oak (a heavy timber).  In other words you might have the same size bundle but oak will weigh twice as much as fir/pine.   I don't work in the lumber industry (oil and gas) but it was part of my recerts for rigging at work.   

[Rolando]

On 6/25/2020 at 7:38 PM, admin said:

...
We want to bring somewhat realistic wood types to the game that bring variety and dont cast the players into 2 types of woods
We want players to feel the difference - real difference when sailing the ship made from particular timber.
...
Three types of woods that were not used will fill the certain roles
Locust - will similar to live oak but with more HP but less thickness for hull, but slightly more for masts
Sabicu - will be similar to white oak but more HP and less thickness for hull, but slightly more for masts
Mahogany - will be similar to Teak but with less thickness but more splinter damage resistance 

Rare woods will be better than seasoned balanced wood alternatives but will be extremely rare and expensive.

Overall all woods will be able to separate into 3 categories
Hardwoods - HP
Hardwoods - Resistance
Softwoods - Speed with variety of other factors
 

Если говорить о реализме, то в нынешней реализации имеет место существенная нестыковка:

- толщина и hp мачт зависит от материала, из которого сделана основа корабля, например, корабль на основе сосны (ели) имеет существенно более тонкие мачты, сбиваемые теперь уже у рейтов со средней дистанции и фрегатными калибрами,

В то же время

- модули типа Pino Okote Masts и Longleaf Pine Yards явно указывают на материал, из которого сделаны мачты (реи).

Получается, что мачты из специального прочного дерева не выдерживают огня из фрегатных калибров в силу... непрочной основы (набора корабля). Зато специальная оснастка (такелаж) может существенно влиять на демастинг - Элитный Французский Рефит, Флотские Бугели... Комбинируя эти модули с прочным материалом основы (Живой Дуб, Акация)  можно получить на 1 рейте мачты, в принципе не сбиваемые с дистанции какого-нибудь кабельтова.

Это противоречие можно устранить, введя третий параметр - материал рангоута, убрав из игры соответствующие, не пользующиеся популярностью модули с микроскопическими преимуществами и недостатками.

Edited June 27, 2020 by Rolando

[Despe]

2 hours ago, admin said:

I dont see that looking at numbers. Live oak has less HP and less mast thickness. Live oak is better in hull thickness only and worse in hp and mast thickness.

not significance stats in that differences and Live Oak has more thickness and much more structure HP... You nerf too much locust. Locust needed a fix but your nerf was too much i guess.

I dont need use Locust when Live oak have more thick and armour HP, only for a little more mast thick, in this case no signifcance. And think that players need to built a forest in outpost and i only make that if the wood got interesting stats that can differentiate it from others. Before that patch these differences existed, but they were too much, totally disbalanced and im totally agree that wood needed a fix, but now is not an interesting wood.

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by Despe

[Malcolm3]

1 hour ago, Rolando said:

Это противоречие можно устранить, введя третий параметр - материал рангоута, убрав из игры соответствующие, не пользующиеся популярностью модули с микроскопическими преимуществами и недостатками.

Идея хорошая (еще и крен увеличить, если мачты слишком прочные), но я боюсь, что слишком много кодить здесь придется. Хотя х/з.

[Malcolm3]

Posted in New Feature Proposals my ideas (previously published in that topic on page 4) of adding new woods (and probably other rare resources) to the game.

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by Malcolm3

[admin]

17 hours ago, DonH said:

@admin Mahogany -10 repair time... Mahogany S +- 0, is it not meant to be the other way around??? S wood should be better than the regular one?

Repair time is a function of hardness. Seasoned woods are harder

[admin]

51 minutes ago, Despe said:

not significance stats in that differences and Live Oak has more thickness and much more structure HP... You nerf too much locust. Locust needed a fix but your nerf was too much i guess.

I dont need use Locust when Live oak have more thick and armour HP, only for a little more mast thick, in this case no signifcance. And think that players need to built a forest in outpost and i only make that if the wood got interesting stats that can differentiate it from others. Before that patch these differences existed, but they were too much, totally disbalanced and im totally agree that wood needed a fix, but now is not an interesting wood.

 

to rolando's point as well

Locust could suit better for heavy frigates, (when you need all extra hp and all extra mast thickness) live oak is for heavy lineships

[Despe]

9 minutes ago, admin said:

to rolando's point as well

Locust could suit better for heavy frigates, (when you need all extra hp and all extra mast thickness) live oak is for heavy lineships

Could be for a Consti, but never for a endymion, i guess. That point will work better if mast thick were a little more hard and speed bonus not the same that live oak... For example a wood totally specialized on thickness, with no significance bonuses on HP and no loses on speed.

Edited June 27, 2020 by Despe

[Rolando]

21 minutes ago, admin said:

to rolando's point as well

Locust could suit better for heavy frigates, (when you need all extra hp and all extra mast thickness) live oak is for heavy lineships

Это только в патрульке, куда меня заманишь только на ДЛС- фрегате, Герке

Историческое назначение фрегата - захват и контроль пространства А как это делать со скоростью Locust-основы минус 4% к базовой? Только фир(s), кедр(s) -  основа с любым планкингом кроме crew. И мастерские карпентеры вместо усиления мачты это коллективная игра в ОМ, а не мордобой в зонах))

[Lizzo]

In my opinion Greenheart should be slightly improved. Currently it is the slowest wood of all and on place 6 in thickness. The only really good thing about Greenheart is the Armor HP, but I think it loses too much in all other areas to stand out as a special wood. My suggestion: Increase repair amount by 1-2 pp and either increase the thickness by +2-4% or increase the speed slightly

[Despe]

2 hours ago, Lizzo said:

Greenheart should be slightly improved.

nope meanwhile that wood is dropped for a invulnerable capital port.

[DonH]

On 6/27/2020 at 10:37 AM, admin said:

Repair time is a function of hardness. Seasoned woods are harder

Makes sense thank you.

When are other other stats going to be added?

Planking:

- Fire rate: Fir gets 2%

- Rudder 1/2 turn time: only Fir gets -1.75%

- Leaks per second: again only Fir gets a 10% 

-Turn speed: Fir and Teak S 1.75% Mahogany S 1.5%

[Der rote Freibeuter]

Does African Oak no longer drop in Willemstad? I´ve got last 500 per contract at 2:00 pm. After that it was listet for the price of 1.500 for some time. Now it´s disappeared completly.

Sorry for my bad english.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Der rote Freibeuter
please delete post - my fault

[ChineseBatman]

So are woods finalised? Or we still waiting for them to be finalised? Not heard anything. So like many still on hold now for a couple of weeks on ship building. Annoying! 

Edited July 3, 2020 by ChineseBatman

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

What became of

- Malmoun Teak

- Virginia Pine

- Danzic Fir

?

No spawning ports for them.

Malabar teak also remains a mystery though I heard from a guy he is able to hoard it rare as it comes (?).

[ChineseBatman]

3 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

What became of

- Malmoun Teak

- Virginia Pine

- Danzic Fir

?

No spawning ports for them.

Malabar teak also remains a mystery though I heard from a guy he is able to hoard it rare as it comes (?).

Malibar teak and Rangoon Teak drops from KPR. But the vultures have always bought the Rangoon, never seen it available. 

Edited July 3, 2020 by ChineseBatman

[Holm Hansen]

20 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

....

Malabar teak also remains a mystery though I heard from a guy he is able to hoard it rare as it comes (?).

port camping

if you do what players are supposed to do here, namely sail out and sinking ships instead of spending the whole day in a port, you will never get anything ....

... is there really no better solution?