Patch 30: General feedback

[Bragan Benigaris]

26 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

46 guns, really ?

If so, still waiting for a 24 to 36-gun DLC light frigate / corvette (such as La Renommée)

Just looked in the API-Data, the pandora has 22x 9pdr, 6x 6pdr and 12x 2pdr (Swivels) what give her a broadside weight of 135 compared to the 129 of the Reno - but the latter has a higher carronade load.

I would classify her as corvette, yay 🙂

 

[HamBlower]

Safezones were the killer of PVP! 

 Sweden suffered because most players farmed NPC's in the safe zone. There was nearly no risk. Denmark and France were to weak, every other nation far away.

Then Russia captured Fort Baai and the pressure in and around the safe zone rised. First I was totaly pissed, that the "gankers" could hold this port.

What happend?

1. We lost some PVE-Players
2. Much more Players experienced their PVP skills - they were forced to do so or to die
3. The smaller clans initated a better teamplay and stopped crying for the help of Cabal
4. A new "Nation Feeling" is growing right now
5. Sweden gets back to a offensive strategy

The defeat at Fort Baai was a cast of fortune for Sweden!

 

If you guys read this forum, you can get the feeling that a lot of posts want to increase the player base, but want to stay safe with their ships.

That's paradoxic!

A higher amount of players leads to an increasing of battles and to an increasing of sunk player ships - and thats the goal of the war server.

The problem of this forums are the false fortune-tellers!

Every change in game feels like an Armageddon in this forum!

It's much better to keep cool, play the game, check the changes and then write a well-founded comment.

The whining in this forum is boring and shameful!

Look on this post; these are the words of a real captain:

19 hours ago, Captain Reverse said:

"Post about save zone"

The Russian Empire does not have safe zones and is the most active pvp nation - this is a fact.
Poland is a small country, but there again, all the players very often go to pvp.
Prussia is again basically a pvp nation. (I will not remember about the timer, but yes, mostly there are pvp players)

Coincidence? don't think

and all this nation dont cry about dangerous life. Becouse we pick PVP server, not PVE. 

and ok, its hardcore nation, ok... But not hardcore nation have Capital Protected area, where all newsplayers have 100% DEFF zone.

 

 

 

[toblerone]

9 hours ago, admin said:

/snip

This is how buyers read the reviews: 

• Ships look great
• Combat is great and beautiful,
• PvP is horrible ,
• NPC are hard (this is great for pve)
• DLC are killing RVR 
• Timers and nighflips
• Gankers
• admin man BAD - collusion and violation of whatever.

Verdict

Online on Peace server will continue to grow and will continue to stagnate on the PVP server (or even fall). 

To start growing the server PVP server players will have to actually do some work - report toxic assholes, give good reviews, teach new players and protect their waters. Game is not going to do that. We will help but we wont do it alone.

First of all, sorry for cutting your post, but I have some comments just on the "solution" and "steam" part. And sorry also on the wall of text, but I prefer giving reasons rather than sentences.

_____________________________________________________

As far as the "solution" are concerned

- report toxic assholes: define what is a toxic asshole - if a toxic asshole, in your view, is a tester spreading negative comments on the game, then reporting them is not a solution, since the negative review is the symptom of a disease, not the disease itself, so you had better taking notes of the comments and try to understand what part of the game is driving people into being assholes. If instead toxic assholes for you means "assholes in game with other players", I have not seen a lot of them in this game since the community is quite good, so there is no actual concern about this.

- give good reviews: if just a minority of players finds the game good as it is now, this solution will not have any effect: they all have already put a good review on steam or on reddit, but the ones that left a negative one are much more. So basically only NEW PLAYERS rewievs could help you … but this game has become less and less newbie friendly … so … draw yourself the conclusion

- teach new players and protect their waters: with such a low number of players is difficult to make it outside a clan and newbies do not usually jump immediately into a clan. Again, put in some "automatic" safe guard mechanics for newbies (let's say until they can jump in suprise or belle poule) in order to keep them having "only fun" for a couple of weeks or so and reserve the hard part for the days after.

- finally: try to give more "Blend" to rewards: I.e. I found very appropriate the choice to give to some delivery mission a dub + silver reward. Well, work further on it, either

a) giving - for every activity - all the rewards in different % and not just a specific reward. In example: OS PVP could reward 50% PVP marks, 30 % dubs, 20% reals, NPC sinking could reward 60% reals 40% dubs and 10 pvp marks … and so on (of course % are there just to give you an idea of what I mean)

or

b) put in a reward exchange system in admiralty (as in peace) to let players swap the rewards, eventually with different - and more "PVP friendly" - exchange rates than the ones in peace server

_______________________________________________________________

On the other hand, if you pick up correctly the perception of the game of the potential steam customer (and I think you did), you should try to work on it, so:

The good

• Ships look great (no need to do anything, just go on in making nice looking ships)
• Combat is great and beautiful (no need to do anything)
• NPC are hard (this is great for pve): maybe just put some more mid tier (5th rate and traders) alone NPCs in the sea, now that safe zones will go away, so that unskilled players that sail figates can find some weak NPC prey not too far from their starting zones

The bad 

• DLC are killing RVR (exclude DLC ships from port battles, since they still will be used for screening, while making SOL crafting easier for organized clans that control ports) 
• Timers and nighflips (that's a nightmare for this game, and I do not see any easy solution here differente from having two servers, but that's impossible with this low population. maybe the solution could be that when a faction or clan has conquered a certain number of ports, they cannot set timers on the further ports they conquer)
• Gankers (this is easier: try to figure out what kind of gank you are disposed to wipe from the game and then simply do not give any reward to the winning part in that case)
• PvP is horrible (that's where you should put in some feature that mitigates the advantage of the most powerful - in battle rating terms - part of each OS battle)

The ugly

• admin man BAD - collusion and violation of whatever (that's the simplest part: if you already have a half-definitive idea of the final features of the game, you do not need actual feedback like before, so just make some PR consideration and change your mood in the forums: let testers whine and just stop the ban hammer (mainly on old testers). This way you will not transform simply critic testers - that coudl be actually able to hurt the game at launch, since they know perfectly the weaknesses of naval action - in enemies of the game and - on the medium term - you'll eventually see some results also in terms of steam reviews).

[van Veen]

 

8 hours ago, admin said:

reinforcements or safety has no retention correlation  (we tried everything. Rookie zones, rookie waters in bahamas with new capitals, reinforcements, protection, capital etc.. it has ZERO effect. War server must be war server.

On online

You are totally right. In fact in the last sale more 2 players out of 3 were picking peace server instead of war server. 

Lets all be honest why
Reasons? Proper naming and constant whining (sorry for direct description)

• Proper naming causes hesitating players to pick peace server. There are less players interested in War 
• Constant whining causes players to switch nation, server or leave the game. (yes some things are not perfect but they are good enough for an indie game, but the whining exceeds all those things and people leave because they think they made a wrong choice buying or picking server). 

New players do not know if they made a right choice picking the server. Players are making the choice between servers on online numbers, chat friendliness and general goals.

• On Peace server they see a friendly chat. 
• On war server they read how everything is horrible and everyone is unhappy and how DLC ships ruined repair business and leave the server. 

If this continues PVP server will continue to lose people. It is just choking itself in toxic fumes towards the game. Players do not feel that they made a right choice and leave.

We are not going to find artificial reasons to bring players to war server. Previously we did it with some clever naming (Caribbean vs PVE. EU vs PVE) or work focus (only RVR and PVP). Now we work on PVE and see the benefits (even with simplest features) while some PVP players are very unhappy about almost anything not to their taste (like they are some kind of hardcore vegans)

Its the same for the buyers who have not yet picked the server.
This is how buyers read the reviews: 

• Ships look great
• Combat is great and beautiful,
• PvP is horrible ,
• NPC are hard (this is great for pve)
• DLC are killing RVR 
• Timers and nighflips
• Gankers
• admin man BAD - collusion and violation of whatever.

Obvious choice after reading the reviews is to pick PVE. Why?
Because you care about ships and combat they are fine. You do not care about RVR or other shit on PVE.  And your DLC does not interfere with anyone. 

Verdict
Online on Peace server will continue to grow and will continue to stagnate on the PVP server (or even fall). 

To start growing the server PVP server players will have to actually do some work - report toxic assholes, give good reviews, teach new players and protect their waters. Game is not going to do that. We will help but we wont do it alone.

Dear @admin,

First of all, I appreciate many things brought into the game recently and those that were planned (e.g. delivery missions, group missions, the announced port management). Some changes I find neither good nor bad, like the change in the damage model or the simplified crafting. And yet other things I reject, like the multitude of currencies, the permit inaccessibility, the fact that ship DLCs work as a flatrate, the removal of diplomacy system (instead of improving it). This said, I would like to comment on your post. 

NA is an open world sandbox where every player has his own personal agenda and this is the whole point of an open world! Yet, I have the impression that many things are implemented with the objective to increase the number of PVP battles at all costs. Other playstyles are not considered "valid". Incentives (chests, combat medals, permits) are made to enforce PVP as the only meaningful reward. Other playstyles get sanctioned in a way which renders them useless (no PVP -> no permits). PVE players are seen as "targets" for PVP players, not as equally valueable players. This focus on PVP has been criticized by many players here in the forum and the growing number players on PVE server indicate that focus on PVP is driving players away. 

Some of the cause-effect relations you pointed out are doubtful and I see a constant pattern in your arguments. According to your post, the root cause for low player retention are toxic players, their whining, the bad reviews and so on. Did it ever occur to you that it might be possible that those posting bad reviews might actually have a point? Don't you think it could be worth taking their comments serious and at least analyse if there might be something to improve? Perhaps new players leave the game early on not because other players are toxic or the bad reviews made them feel so bad about the game? Maybe some of the players simply they don't like the game as it is? Ignore the spam, filter the rant, and you might find something worth improving. But first of all, you have to embrace criticism. Now, this is hard. 

Criticizing something hurts the one who created that something. I know that. But hurt feelings must not lead to rejecting all criticism per se, or, even worse, in attacking those who utter justified criticism ("whiners"). You chose to develop your game as an open early access game. You created this forum to involve players in the development. Rejecting now the concerns of those you involved is not just rude, it is also against your own chosen agenda. You chose a community development approach, so you should have a proper professional community management and professional communication. Do not expect too much love from the community though. 

I think your list of main negative reviews is actually a good summary of what needs to be improved. Please, for the benefit of your project, refrain from blaming the community. Start improving those things. Think of a way how to positively involve the community. Do not work against your customers and your project will be great. 

Now, ban me if you like. No hurt feelings on my side. 

 

Cheers,

van Veen

[Bragan Benigaris]

7 minutes ago, HamBlower said:

Safezones were the killer of PVP! 

 Sweden suffered because most players farmed NPC's in the safe zone. There was nearly no risk. Denmark and France were to weak, every other nation far away.

Then Russia captured Fort Baai and the pressure in and around the safe zone rised. First I was totaly pissed, that the "gankers" could hold this port.

What happend?

1. We lost some PVE-Players
2. Much more Players experienced their PVP skills - they were forced to do so or to die
3. The smaller clans initated a better teamplay and stopped crying for the help of Cabal
4. A new "Nation Feeling" is growing right now
5. Sweden gets back to a offensive strategy

The defeat at Fort Baai was a cast of fortune for Sweden!

 

If you guys read this forum, you can get the feeling that a lot of posts want to increase the player base, but want to stay safe with their ships.

That's paradoxic!

A higher amount of players leads to an increasing of battles and to an increasing of sunk player ships - and thats the goal of the war server.

The problem of this forums are the false fortune-tellers!

Every change in game feels like an Armageddon in this forum!

It's much better to keep cool, play the game, check the changes and then write a well-founded comment.

The whining in this forum is boring and shameful!

Look on this post; these are the words of a real captain:

 

 

Agreed - with the complete post and with the quote from captain Reverse.

Reading this forum the last weeks i more and more get the feeling everything that matters for many posters is in german "Besitzstandswahrung" translated with "protection of acquired possession" - and not only regarding the pixels and ports but also the rules and methods. And every second or third post uses the newbies or casuals or solo hunters as excuse why they are whining - and this is hello kittying annoying.

You want new players for your clans, your conquest or as playfellow? Then you don't need any always in a way limiting game mechanics, you only need wits, engagement and the sandbox. There are enough places on the map, where the new recruits could train or better be trained (why do you thing russia conquered Kitts/Bermudas despite the woods), the experienced players could organize a coast guard around capitals, which is much better and many more fun than an artificial reinforcement zone with an always exploitable mechanic. I could continue much more with this list, but i without avail i suppose.

 

 

[Potemkin]

I'd love to see a list of people who are constantly on the forum spouting their "awesome, game-saving ideas", who still put in heavy hours, and bitch about not having more players....who left a negative review or changed theirs to negative out of spite and butthurt over not being listened to. The reviews are probably the single most important thing for prospective buyers with the price of the game being what it is, and the lack of players has a lot to do with the frustration over mechanics designed for a more populated game. It's like 90% of the veteran playerbase just flipped a switch and became armchair game developers right around 2 years ago.

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Potemkin

[HachiRoku]

I hope you change your mind about roe. Rvr is dead and solo playing is no option for me anymore. Duel rooms were a feature that were removed so I guess there is nothing left for me anymore. 

[admin]

5 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

I hope you change your mind about roe. Rvr is dead and solo playing is no option for me anymore. Duel rooms were a feature that were removed so I guess there is nothing left for me anymore. 

I guess there are 2 sides to every story.
Moscal and Dron often sail solo and LOVE the new ROE.

We fixed the difference between indefatigable and endy. You will have it closed in 2 mins. But this is all we will do for you. 

 

[admin]

3 minutes ago, Routan said:

Think you hope in vain. Admin just closed a suggestion tread, and said this RoE is the final version.

People must understand that everyone cant be made happy on the pvp server. One is unhappy another one is happy, it happens with every PVP feature. Stop using terms like feedback was in VAIN.. it was not in vain. It was propose considered and DECLINED. learn to deal with it.
 

We love the new roe. Many players like new roe. Others hate it but its nature of all polarizing features.

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, admin said:

I guess there are 2 sides to every story.
Moscal and Dron often sail solo and LOVE the new ROE.

We fixed the difference between indefatigable and endy. You will have it closed in 2 mins. But this is all we will do for you. 

 

I think that is a very small sampling.  I haven't actually seen a lot of support for the ROE and most of the chat on Global (which I see every day) is negative with regards to this.  I doubt that you've heard the last of this.

[The Spud]

I started to play on the PvE server after a long time on the PvP server, and I see more reasons why a PvE server is a good option for this game. I mainly changed cause i do not have a ton of hours anymore to put in this game, and to be fair if you don't have 1,5 - 2 hours to play its not a good idea to log in PvP, cause PvP might get you caught in a battle just as you were about to dock up and will have you either give up your ship or postpone whatever you were planning on doing. And the PvE lets you pick your fights and quit in the OW wherever and whenever. 

I think the devs should look into getting as much PvP as possible into the PvE server, without touching the above. I have yet to test the Solo PvP, but I bet its good fun. 
There are so many options that could have PvP happen while PvE people can still go carelessly around their business never being bothered by any of it.
Have nations do port battles, but all they fight for is who can collect the taxes, nothing else changes anybody can use the port.

If you're digging deep into the hardcore RvR PvP scene, your realy locking yourself into a niche. And I think so many more people could appreciate this game if it would be less hardcore in some ways. 

[admin]

10 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I think that is a very small sampling.  I haven't actually seen a lot of support for the ROE and most of the chat on Global (which I see every day) is negative with regards to this.  I doubt that you've heard the last of this.

I was giving @HachiRoku a sample he would understand and respect.  

[eneibesmuB]

@admin can you show us more pictures of the Rattvisan?

[admin]

3 minutes ago, The Spud said:

 

I think the devs should look into getting as much PvP as possible into the PvE server, without touching the above. 

Its really funny that we just mentioned two sides of the story. We did not consider pve server important previously (we did not see another side). But we do now. 
 

[admin]

1 minute ago, eneibesmuB said:

@admin can you show us more pictures of the Rattvisan?

Once steam page opens. but here is a small teaser

[eneibesmuB]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

Once steam page opens. but here is a small teaser

A beautiful ship!

[Havelock]

8 minutes ago, admin said:

Its really funny that we just mentioned two sides of the story. We did not consider pve server important previously (we did not see another side). But we do now. 
 

I wonder... if a PvE server without PvP creates so many happy faces, what would a PvP server without PvE look like 🤔

[Lovec1990]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

Once steam page opens. but here is a small teaser

so shiny looks way better than expected.

[admin]

4 minutes ago, Havelock said:

I wonder... if a PvE server without PvP creates so many happy faces, what would a PvP server without PvE look like 🤔

good idea but not going to be sustainable. server must work and be playable even if you have 2 person online. Now it will. Without pve it wont.

[The Spud]

1 hour ago, Potemkin said:

I'd love to see a list of people who are constantly on the forum spouting their "awesome, game-saving ideas", who still put in heavy hours, and bitch about not having more players....who left a negative review or changed theirs to negative out of spite and butthurt over not being listened to. The reviews are probably the single most important thing for prospective buyers with the price of the game being what it is, and the lack of players has a lot to do with the frustration over mechanics designed for a more populated game. It's like 90% of the veteran playerbase just flipped a switch and became armchair game developers right around 2 years ago.

 

I agree, I think some use the bad reviews as leverage to encourage the devs to do "changes". Every game has its lifespan, after 2000 hours you might have done and seen it all. The devs can't keep adding new things to do or test, at some point the game does become the same thing over and over again. I've been away from this game for nearly a year cause I was bored of it. I'm back now again, having fun. Never felt like I would leave a bad review, i had way to much fun to give this game a bad review.

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

good idea but not going to be sustainable. server must work and be playable even if you have 2 person online. Now it will. Without pve it wont.

 

Just now, Intrepido said:

PVE is the element on which most games are built on. It is too important to ignore.

Which is why I am very concerned with players going over to the PVE server.  We need to keep them on the War server.  I think the wipes have chased a lot away from War.  We'll see on release. 

[Steele OooOoOOoOOOooooOOOO]

How many missions are available for trade lynx's ? cargo wise?

[Havelock]

18 minutes ago, admin said:

good idea but not going to be sustainable. server must work and be playable even if you have 2 person online. Now it will. Without pve it wont.

If there are only 2 players online the game wouldnt be sustainable anyways. Also, they would probably chose PvE server if they dont find an enemy on PvP, right?

[HachiRoku]

54 minutes ago, admin said:

I guess there are 2 sides to every story.
Moscal and Dron often sail solo and LOVE the new ROE.

We fixed the difference between indefatigable and endy. You will have it closed in 2 mins. But this is all we will do for you. 

 

They sail in 1st rates and pood trinco. 

[mikawa]

btw: where do you get pood now?