Patch 30: General feedback

[Eyesore]

2 hours ago, Borch said:

Following up on this post. The new RoE could possibly lead to situations where pro player sailing fully kitted with best upgrades and build from best woods, can lock himself up in an instance with few casuals sailing poorly build and outfitted ship. Elite player in a lineship can win everything just by gun size and count. The same can happen with elite group of players. Whenever that happens the group of casuals with lower skill plus unable to get top woods and upgrades is going to be tottaly destroyed with no chance for reiforcements. More than that, quite often the elite group can be the side with reinforcements open making them invulnerable even in enemy waters.

In every game the idea is that worse equipped players can offset elite players with numbers. It's not going to happen here, so most of the time your newbies are going to be defeated loosing their will and courage to play the game. This new RoE is going to potentially destroy your new players pool. We tested similiar RoE in the past and it was a failure. With current game state it can be even worse.

Perhaps, as was already suggested in other threads, mods and books could count towards BR?

But i understood it would/could create difficulties for rvr (fleetcomposition that becomes very hard to calculate?)

[van der Clam]

Not sure where to post this, but Combat Medals need to be rewarded for capturing ships. It is still a battle. It is still a win/loss. It should count for something....especially in the PvP zones. All I got out of it was a junk Fatty, some wood he had, carros, and a NDE. I didn't even get dbls. And because the PvP missions I had were only for 4th and 3rd rates, it didn't count. This is why the PvP missions should not be rate specific...just reward us CMs with a rate multiplier, and make the missions be for different battle actions: kills, captures. Please and ty.

If you are worried that alts will exploit this, it seems alts are already exploiting the current model. The very day the patch came out I witnessed in Combat Chat a captain board and sink 7 pirates within 10 minutes. I pondered, since when are rats so stupid to stop right next to an enemy who has boarded multiple friends one after the other.

[Holm Hansen]

It would be nice, if the required amount of repair materials, for one repair process, in port UI will displayed.

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The before missed light sources in port scenario have been added back, thanks for that. But in battle instance, they still seem to be missing. The ships still appear very dark there,  just as they did in the port before too.

first screenshot, can later provide adiitional, if needed

Edited March 4, 2019 by Holm Hansen

[Teutonic]

I have noticed with every battles against both players and NPCs that I have recieved a lot more xp after the battle than before.

I feel grinding is a lot easier now and that's a nice change.

[Holm Hansen]

18 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

I have noticed with every battles against both players and NPCs that I have recieved a lot more xp after the battle than before.

I feel grinding is a lot easier now and that's a nice change.

I think thats only for bigger ships due their received HP-buff.

more HP = more damage needed = more XP

But a nice side effect, true, because especallly the bigger ships had an great grind factor for ship knowledge.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Holm Hansen

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

Same for looting after boarding, it's very frustrating to board succesfully a ship but after you close the window, the ship insta sink and you can't cap it to repair it. (plus i think you get the sinking loot, not the boarding loot vs AI) moreover now we can exchange broadsides while in boarding...

[Aldeveron]

I welcome the addition of the delivery quests, and I welcom the slight increase in NPC ships to attack, near out home ports.

However, for  PVP, some of the other changes seem to make the game even less fun than it had already become. In my opinion, it was already too hard to acquire bigger ships, built of decent woods, and open up their skill slots. And ships were already too easily lost to enemy players, especially after the introduction of the dreaded 20 minute window, allowing them to join the battle when you have picked a fight with a ship of a lesser BR. Now, the whole bad situation is aggravated by the extra difficulty imposed on us regarding the purchase of ship notes (now requiring Combat Medals). 

Edited March 4, 2019 by Aldeveron

[van Veen]

Concerning the rare woods: there must be some sort of mechanism that spreads the information where rare woods are. 

If the rare wood ports are intended to drive RVR, information about these ports is a prerequisite. It is absolutely essential. Without this piece of information, there will be no fighting over it. Just relying on players to explore the map is not enough (at times there are more ports than online players). It is a bottleneck situation without a bypass. It also systematically favors large nations, large both in terms of ports owned and in terms of player numbers (this is a different story though).

Again, if the information is not available, the purpose of driving RVR has failed, because there will be no RVR without it.

@admin Please think about it. I am sure you already have some ideas. 

[Archaos]

53 minutes ago, van Veen said:

Concerning the rare woods: there must be some sort of mechanism that spreads the information where rare woods are. 

If the rare wood ports are intended to drive RVR, information about these ports is a prerequisite. It is absolutely essential. Without this piece of information, there will be no fighting over it. Just relying on players to explore the map is not enough (at times there are more ports than online players). It is a bottleneck situation without a bypass. It also systematically favors large nations, large both in terms of ports owned and in terms of player numbers (this is a different story though).

Again, if the information is not available, the purpose of driving RVR has failed, because there will be no RVR without it.

@admin Please think about it. I am sure you already have some ideas. 

I have found plenty of ports with rare woods, initially I did not keep notes, but since I started keeping records I have 13 ports where various rare woods are produced. Personally I hope that these do not appear in the API as I think that will defeat the whole point of them. They are supposed to encourage exploration which is something people have asked for. Having that knowledge while other people and clans do not can influence decisions in RvR and allow clans and nations to get a step ahead of the opposition in securing those resources.

[Teutonic]

54 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I agree, as far as I can find from combing the data there's no way to determine the wood ports from API data. 

But I would argue that in order for these ports to be significant and dynamic engines for RvR activities that 1,000,000 logs is too much and the cost for extracting them is too high. I'd like to see the port turnover about once every couple of weeks, which needs to happen to drive exploration and RvR to deny/attain resources in a more urgent fashion.  Right now the extraction will be too slow and the ports just serve to entrench the RvR rather than make it dynamic.

After the price adjustment - i think it is good. You pay more for the better woods.

EDIT: i will agree that the price still seems too high for some woods.

Or maybe we should be able to extract different levels. As an example ---

Level 1 - 5k dubs for 1k woods

Level 2 - 20k dubs for 5k woods

Level 3 - 40k dubs for 12k woods

Would allow anyone to get the woods no matter the level, but the incentive would be to get bigger batches to save on doubloon cost.

 

As for the supply of 1 million - I agree it's very high.

I am hoping for a 30-60 day average for the forest 'deforestation' and 'forest replenishment.' 

Granted - if a group has the required amount of doubloons to extract all tye treets at once - then it is only 24 hours. But I think and hope that no one could ever do that so that others have the opportunity to get to the source.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Teutonic

[Archaos]

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

I agree, as far as I can find from combing the data there's no way to determine the wood ports from API data. 

But I would argue that in order for these ports to be significant and dynamic engines for RvR activities that 1,000,000 logs is too much and the cost for extracting them is too high. I'd like to see the port turnover about once every couple of weeks, which needs to happen to drive exploration and RvR to deny/attain resources in a more urgent fashion.  Right now the extraction will be too slow and the ports just serve to entrench the RvR rather than make it dynamic.

I think there needs to be enough stock to make it worthwhile for RvR. You are not going to bother raising hostility and coming back in 24 hours if the supply can be exhausted by then.

As Admin said, 1 million may be too much, but lets test it and see. 

I do not think the cost is too high as it is much easier to make doubloons now with the delivery missions. Between my 2 alts I have made over 200k doubloons just from delivery missions since the patch dropped, and that is only playing on average 4 hours a day.

Edit: You also have to remember that it is not just RvR that these ports will generate, it is also trader hunting PvP opportunities as people will not move their shipyards there for a short period of time but rather transport the logs to their crafting base. If you fulfill one of the missions you have a stack of 5k logs to move or store so you will need at least 2 Indiamen, which will be a nice target for hunters.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Archaos

[LeBoiteux]

If I get it right, on the PvE server, L'Hermione and the Wasa are two ships one can't either craft (no available Blueprint) or buy as ship notes (as ship notes need PvP Combat medals one can't get on the Peace server).

It'd be nice to get a better access to both of those ships.

[victor]

15 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

If I get it right, on the PvE server, L'Hermione and the Wasa are two ships one can't either craft (no available Blueprint) or buy as ship notes (as ship notes need PvP Combat medals one can't get on the Peace server).

It'd be nice to get a better access to both of those ships.

Right. Anyway for PVE stuff wasa is trash, bellona is way better

Edited March 4, 2019 by victor

[Archaos]

9 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I don't think there will be many clans sitting on 15,000,000 doubloons but I could be wrong.  I guess we'll see from an economy standpoint how it will shake out, but I still feel like these ports will not drive the RvR on a week-in, week-out basis like it could if it were more dynamic.

Well thinking about it logically, you do not want a single clan to be able to clear out the stock in anything less than a week. You have to give a few days for the resource to be discovered, then at least another couple of days to allow hostility to be built and port battle take place, so say 5 days from when a resource first appears in a port. If it could be cleared in a week that would only leave a couple of days stock left and thus not so attractive for people to take the port.

Also remember that even if a clan had enough doubloons to clear the port in 24 hours they would then have a stock of 1 milllion logs to move, which needs 250 Indiamen without the hold perk to shift.

Smaller clans may not be able to contest these ports, but when the resource is exhausted and respawns they may be lucky and it appears in their port and they can take as much as they can before they become targets.

Overall I like the idea of these rare resource spawns, but maybe there should be a maximum time it remains in one port, maybe something like 3 or 4 weeks after which it shifts if not depleted. This way it cannot be gamed by a clan running it down to the last mission and holding onto it so it does not respawn elsewhere. e.g. a clan could get majority out in a short space of time so they had plenty of stock and just leave 5k stock remaining so it became unattractive to be attacked in RvR, then kick all the clans on their friends list and deprive people from the resource.

[Felix Victor]

3 hours ago, rediii said:

Someone told me it is visible in the API. I kinda expect to see it soon in @Felix Victors map  

I guess, it is there: select rare woods under "show goods' relation". Cannot check whether it is correct though.

[Archaos]

4 minutes ago, Felix Victor said:

I guess, it is there: select rare woods under "show goods' relation". Cannot check whether it is correct though.

I think that shows the old spawn ports and not the clan resources.

[Felix Victor]

5 minutes ago, Archaos said:

shows the old spawn ports and not the clan resources.

Nouvelle Orléans didn't drop white oak before. However, I don't know whether it currently has white oak as a clan ressource.

[Archaos]

6 minutes ago, Felix Victor said:

Nouvelle Orléans didn't drop white oak before. However, I don't know whether it currently has white oak as a clan ressource.

I have found about 13 ports with clan resource spawns and they do not tie in with what is shown on the map.

Edit: e.g. Bermuda Cedar I have found as clan resources in Pasaje, Calcasieu and Bridgetown, while your map still only shows them in Bermuda region.

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by Archaos

[Felix Victor]

2 minutes ago, Archaos said:

I have found about 13 ports with clan resource spawns and they do not tie in with what is shown on the map

Good to know. I guess, it is not contained in the API data. Will check later.

[Teutonic]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

 

Overall I like the idea of these rare resource spawns, but maybe there should be a maximum time it remains in one port, maybe something like 3 or 4 weeks after which it shifts if not depleted. This way it cannot be gamed by a clan running it down to the last mission and holding onto it so it does not respawn elsewhere. e.g. a clan could get majority out in a short space of time so they had plenty of stock and just leave 5k stock remaining so it became unattractive to be attacked in RvR, then kick all the clans on their friends list and deprive people from the resource.

It is good to get different angles and opinions because I didn't think about this. It certainly may have to be looked at because that could become a big problem in certain situations.

[Felix Victor]

1 hour ago, Felix Victor said:

I guess, it is not contained in the API data. Will check later.

Data is there. Will be added to the map in the coming days.

[Teutonic]

2 minutes ago, Felix Victor said:

Data is there. Will be added to the map in the coming days.

guess we know where to look for all the wood now

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

2 hours ago, Felix Victor said:

Data is there. Will be added to the map in the coming days.

Not a big fan of knowing. Rather it to be kept dark to majority of players. Makes it more interesting and adds a bit of exploration elements to the game.

[HamBlower]

I understand the new damage modell and tink that the mechanic needs time to get adjusted. I don't understand why there is no newe hull modell. It is totaly unbelievable, that ships of the line can be as fast as properly build 5th or 4th Rate.

The fir/fir SOL's that are now camping in PVP HotSpots have nothing to do with the case that dev's call "realistic".

The change of the dps was in opinion a good decision, but devs forgot to change the crafting modell. Why don't you test this? Allow SOL's for 4 weeks only to be build in rare Woods! I promise the ballance between light ships and SOL's will increase.

[admin]

9 hours ago, Wraith said:

 ports are exhausted and rollover every few weeks.  That should be their primary role.

In this case the you (not owning the resource) will be less compelled to capture them. If they change every week you just sit and wait instead of going for them. If resources change every week, you also will feel less compelled to defend them - because what's he point to defend if they are going to disappear and maybe be found in your other port.