Patch 27 - New Economy feedback.

[Tiedemann]

I do not get why the doubloons are not payed out just like PvP/Combat marks where, in connection to kill/assist marks deposited directly to chest when we leave the battle. This was simple and effective. Imo having to sail over and loot all ships we sink and then considering random loot drop is involved - It is just unnecessary painful!    

[Sir Loorkon]

On 10/31/2018 at 9:19 PM, Suppenkelle said:

 

Ships are a LOT more expensive now and, frankly,  I don't know whether this is helping the game forward. I compared building prices for Mercury, Surprise, and Indefatigable built in fir/fir to avoid bias due to prices for teak or white oak. Before update the price was a mixture of Gold for collecting the ressources and Combat marks, reflecting the necessary labour hours. Now the price is a mixture of Reals and Dubloons. Gold was converted 25:1 to reals. PvP marks were converted 1:1 to dubloons. Based on the values of PvP marks (100k Gold) and Combatmarks (3k Gold) in Gustavia prior to the update I have calculated the costs for the vessels in Gold. The new prices are roughly 500 times higher than before! You will argue that the rate of conversion from Dubloons into gold via PvP marks is not viable. I will argue that this is not really relevant as the main issue is the conversion from Dubloons into labour hours which is 1:1.2. Prior to the update the conversion from combat marks (!) to labour hours was 1:33.

Funny side effect: ships built from fir/fir or fir/oak are more expensive than ships from T/LO/WO as the amount of LH needed to collect fir and oak  is prohibitively high. You can't mean that.

 

I think Suppenkelle made some very interesting and valid statements. So LH seem to be the new bottleneck. Was that intended?

I start to like the new system but there should be some adjustments refering to the cost of LH. Duoblon prices for SOL seem to be very high, too.

I would recommend to increase the personal  duoblon reward for a PvP kill/assist x50 and give it directly to the Players shiphold after battle and give the duoblons which have to be looted in addition as a lootabe reward. That way your good intention to make every ship count and making the hunter a profitable target keeps working. In addition it will be possible to get a reward by  killing a ship of a superior ganking group. Atm it seems to be impossible to get rewards when you are outnumbered (you are dead when you stop to loot) and this will promote ganking in large groups.

[admin]

On 10/31/2018 at 10:19 PM, Suppenkelle said:

Ships are a LOT more expensive now and, frankly,  I don't know whether this is helping the game forward. I compared building prices for Mercury, Surprise, and Indefatigable built in fir/fir to avoid bias due to prices for teak or white oak. Before update the price was a mixture of Gold for collecting the ressources and Combat marks, reflecting the necessary labour hours. Now the price is a mixture of Reals and Dubloons. Gold was converted 25:1 to reals. PvP marks were converted 1:1 to dubloons. Based on the values of PvP marks (100k Gold) and Combatmarks (3k Gold) in Gustavia prior to the update I have calculated the costs for the vessels in Gold. The new prices are roughly 500 times higher than before! You will argue that the rate of conversion from Dubloons into gold via PvP marks is not viable. I will argue that this is not really relevant as the main issue is the conversion from Dubloons into labour hours which is 1:1.2. Prior to the update the conversion from combat marks (!) to labour hours was 1:33.

 

You cannot compare old prices with new prices in such a way. Because the value of pvp mark before the patch is irrelevant. The value of combat mark is also irrelevant  - they were abandoned. Doubloons is a new currency. Silver reals is denominated old gold (25 gold to 1 real)

One could argue that 100000 old gold is 4000 reals = one pvp mark ___ and 3000 old gold = 120 reals = combat mark and he will be right. But pvp marks do not exist anymore, and they are not used in new crafting and do not drop anywhere (and never will)

Doubloons will find their own market price against reals (which will definitely be lower) 

[SirAlatriste]

23 minutes ago, admin said:

Doubloons will find their own market price against reals (which will definitely be lower) 

Do you mean you will be able to buy doubloons for x reals?

[Teutonic]

Is the price for iron and hemp of 31 and 29 respectively supposed to be that high in comparison to other resources?

Most other resources are between 3-8 reals each. 

It seems odd that iron and hemp did not get the same 25 to 1 ratio that everything else did.

[Fargo]

1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

The point stands.

Very expensive ships= less pvp and rvr.

 And no one is not going to do hostility missions in frigates just because some hardcore players that play pvp on pickles have advised you that change will be the best for the game.

Could you stop this nonesense? I would have banned you 10 post ago for spamming unfounded claims, that are mostly just wrong. You have absolutely no idea what your talking about. 

What ships people use, how well PvP and RvR work, and how population develops is a little more complicated.

And its disgusting to claim that all NA is worth playing for are first rates and the rest is shit. What BS people are allowed to post is insane. A similar amount of work went into every other ship, and the goal is obviously to make people use a variety of different ships. Besides that there needs to be long time motivation, and a balanced economy is 100 times easier to achieve with balancing focussing on affordable mid tier ships. 

Its basically a pure design decision, that absolutely makes sense in this case. And when devs want large ships to be rare, then you have to respect that. That the way they are trying to achieve this is questionable is another topic.

1 hour ago, SirAlatriste said:

Do you mean you will be able to buy doubloons for x reals?

You can sell/buy doubloons with contracts.

[Archaos]

23 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

This was always a problem since wipe.

1. Put crew on captured ship

2. Remove crew/abandon ship

3. Sink = No Rewards

I know this is off topic but personally I think that this is how it should be and even extend it so that any ship captured in a boarding action gives no rewards if sunk after. Once you capture a ship the ship becomes yours so why should you get rewards for sinking your own ship. If nothing else it would stop the boarding meta to win battles as people would only board if they intended to keep the ship rather that a way to get a quick kill.

[Kilo60]

3 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

I do not get why the doubloons are not payed out just like PvP/Combat marks where, in connection to kill/assist marks deposited directly to chest when we leave the battle. This was simple and effective. Imo having to sail over and loot all ships we sink and then considering random loot drop is involved - It is just unnecessary painful!    

So frustrating when in heat of battle you have to stop fighting and sail upwind racing to an AI ship to loot its hold for doubloons before it sinks.  Totally kills the point of fleet battles!

 

AGREED!  DOUBLOONS SHOULD BE GIVEN AT THE END OF BATTLE JUST LIKE COMBAT MARKS OR PVP MARKS USED TO!

[Capn Rocko]

4 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

I do not get why the doubloons are not payed out just like PvP/Combat marks where, in connection to kill/assist marks deposited directly to chest when we leave the battle. This was simple and effective. Imo having to sail over and loot all ships we sink and then considering random loot drop is involved - It is just unnecessary painful!    

The idea of looting the doubloons is nice, but I have to agree. Sometimes you simply cannot make it over to the sinking ship to claim your reward (for a number of reasons). I think they should be given to the player after battle with the xp and pvp mark reward (now converted to doubloons).  Not to mention, its easier to split the doubloons with your teammate(s) this way. 

[Angus MacDuff]

He just said its not possible on the "Loot Pickup" thread.

[Capn Rocko]

It makes sense to me that the legitimate doubloons in the players cargo hold (that existed prior to the battle instance) would simply be lootable without sinking the ship. On the other hand, the doubloons that appear out of nowhere (once the ship is sunk) are different from the prior and could be awarded at the end of battle. But hey, I'm not a game developer. 

[Hethwill]

Loot feels tarkovian, no matter if PvE/PvP. Loot is only yours if you reach the "escape" point - reach port and pass it to your chests ( stash ).

[Rorgan]

Why don't you simply change the looting mechanics?

I mean the problem is not really with the new lootable doubloons its more about the horrible way you can loot wrecks.

With bigger ships and bad wind its often impossible to reach a sinking wreck to loot it in time, ok realism and all but gameplay is much more important in this case.

It would be much better for the gameplay if you could loot wrecks from like 100m or even more distance without speed limits and only the player who got the kill can access the loot until he leave the instance / got killed / abandon it.

Ok its not realistic, but who cares when its also prevents loot stealing and all the unfair things that can happen.

 

BTW maybe i am the only one here, but i really like this patch and i think this is the right direction for the game!

Of course a lot of players whining about pvp marks and all, but come here and tell me that farming newbie players and camping capitals is totally fine and healthy for the game.

Those ganker squads basically destroying the playerbase and player retention and must be stopped!

 

Look at EVE-online for example, there are high-sec (relative)safe zones where you can run missions, trade, etc.

But if you want to go for the bigger reward you have to wander into low-sec or even null-sec systems where everyone can legally attack you.

Thats what i missing from this game and probably thats the reason why the pvp of this game is all about ganking and seal clubbing.

Don't get me wrong im not a carebear, i used to play EVE for like for 9 years and i always been in null-sec, even finished 2nd and 3rd place in the Alliance Tournament with my team, but i hate to see whats happening in NA and hate to see those "great" pvp players who camping capitals 24/7 whining on this forum now that they don't get REWARD FOR DOING IT!

[Donjuan Dimarco]

Hello Admin,

first of all, I want to say that the new UI looks great. Better than the former bluescreen. But I see some problems as well. Yesterday our clan capped two fine 1st rates of some players of a hostile nation. Usually, I do not have mercy with them. But They may run into a problem now. They have to spend more than 9.000 Doubloons for replacing each of their lost ships. Is your intention that 90-95% of the server population will sail in 5th rates? So you punish minor clans or nations who have not that many players to defend themselves. What is the end of the story? The most players are joining the nation which is the strongest. And then the strong nations like brits or Sweden have an easy game: When they have sunk the last 1st rates of hostile nations the game Naval Action is over. Cause there is nobody to fight with. And I do not think that they would enjoy port battles fighting 5th rates and below against their 1st rate fleet. So please stop the doubloons nonsense.

Cheers Donjuan 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Donjuan Dimarco

[Sir Imbriglicated]

I like the transportation fee for one reason. Players with alts will need to get dubloons for their alts in order to jump around buying the goods of the nation that they are really not a member of.

(If you also make the DLC-ships craftable you will get thumbs up for making all players able to play at more equal terms than now) 

[Teutonic]

57 minutes ago, Sir Imbriglicated said:

I like the transportation fee for one reason. Players with alts will need to get dubloons for their alts in order to jump around buying the goods of the nation that they are really not a member of.

(If you also make the DLC-ships craftable you will get thumbs up for making all players able to play at more equal terms than now) 

So when you find out that they only have to pay 1 doubloon on their alts to your 10 doubloons, is it ok now?

 

[Slim McSauce]

80% of ports don't have repairs stocked, 80% of ports are therefore not usable to stage PVP from.

Nobody wan'ts to craft and haul repairs around for pennies, there are plenty of better economic ventures.

We still get battles where one side runs and repairs for 80 minutes.

We still only get a few battles worth of repairs in our holds before we have to sail all the way back to port.

No extended stays, no PVP staging, and shitty DPS/heal battles.

I'm ready to debate anybody who disagrees. Come with your best arguments, you're going to need them.

[TheHaney]

If everybody is pining for consumables and no ports have them, that sounds like a pretty hello kittyin good financial venture to me.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, TheHaney said:

If everybody is pining for consumables and no ports have them, that sounds like a pretty hello kittyin good financial venture to me.

Then why have 80% of ports been empty of repairs for two years now? Why is this still a problem after all this time?

Edited November 2, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[TheHaney]

Apparently nobody gets how supply and demand works?

Shit, I'll start up a business tonight. Haney, the Provisioner of Repairs.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, TheHaney said:

Apparently nobody gets how supply and demand works?

Shit, I'll start up a business tonight. Haney, the Provisioner of Repairs.

Yes, blame the players for not taking hours out of their day to haul repairs around the map just to have the enemy come in and smuggle them all out.

[TheHaney]

Just now, Slim McSauce said:

Yes, blame the players for not taking hours out of their day to haul repairs around the map just to have the enemy come in and smuggle them all out.

I couldn't care less who buys 'em. If you're telling me people are in desperate need of repairs and nobody is selling them, I'm seeing insane profit potential.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, TheHaney said:

I couldn't care less who buys 'em. If you're telling me people are in desperate need of repairs and nobody is selling them, I'm seeing insane profit potential.

Obviously no one cares about whatever profit can be made, it isn't being done therefore it's not working.

[TheHaney]

Just now, Slim McSauce said:

Obviously no one cares about whatever profit can be made, it isn't being done therefore it's not working.

With the new economy, let's see if we can change that. I'll work on building a mini-empire repair business, and I'll get back to you Monday as to how it went. But, if what you say is true, I'm expecting to make an insane amount of money.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, TheHaney said:

With the new economy, let's see if we can change that. I'll work on building a mini-empire repair business, and I'll get back to you Monday as to how it went. But, if what you say is true, I'm expecting to make an insane amount of money.

alright good luck, in the meantime I'll be waiting for repairs to be limited in battles like it should have been when chain was limited.