Captin, we're safe! .. Are we?

[Urchin]

34 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

PS: understood! NA vets destroyed the game farming noobs for years... Now they got it is not good for the game... keep defending existing metas (never ever have to adapt. Right?)... and now cry and shout to people doing what they did for YEARS that it is not good for the game.

Linear.

So your excuse for doing that now is that it was done in the past.  Weak. 

[Rabman]

Our whole clan rose from the one ported US nation so long ago. It was never safe on the Florida coast and we never were on the coast. All of this made us better. We only PvP'd, we only sailed purpose built ships, we knew when to attack and when not to attack and grew at a small and consolidated pace, at the best we could field 6 ships. All so called protected zones were regularly hunted with force. Fleets of ships sailed MT, CTown, KPR. People barely had access to specific ships (blueprint gating) even capable of fighting off a properly built effective fleet, and port battling was a dream if you didn't have 25 men to fill up the battle.

With that said the differences between then and now is there was no wood limited meta and you could pay to have your goods shipped across the world. You could ship any good from anywhere and buy almost anything anywhere in abundance. There was less upgrade meta than there is now, every ship wasn't built with power creep. Not to mention 5 durability ships for most ships in the game.

No one cared if you attack capital regions when they send 50 men out to kill your band of 10 guys, but you could also operate out of a free port and get everything you needed there without having to even touch the open water just by shipping your goods.

Now that population is on life support, everyone is worried about every fragile new player hoping that if we add enough fragile new players we'll build a new world with them. I'm not saying adding new players is a bad thing or that I have the answer to the population issues, I agree newbies need a place to learn and grow when the population is so low like it is that they have no shelter under other friendlies, but it sure seems to me that it will never grow into 1000-2500 pop days again of worry free combat, where it didn't matter who you sank when or where.

It's a useful exercise to look where we've been to see where we're going.

Shipping goods to/from freeports

5 Durability

Abundant Ship Resources Virtually Everywhere

High Population protected their own Capital

Throwaway capped ships (3rd's, Connies)

Gold for damage done, win lose or draw

Because of the above, I loved the Austerity patch (excluding no teleporting) because it put a sense of risk in the loss, and your enemy couldn't immediately come right back out in the ship you just sank to try to sink you again. It made things leaner and harder and you felt a greater sense of victory in defeating your enemies fleet, knowing it would all have to be built again. That was however much disliked and it was gone in short order.

More important than what I want in a game, I want there to be a population so we have something to do on a regular basis. If my expectations for the opposite of the Austerity patch are true, if you want the players to come back, then the old way which worked in the past should be readopted again, make loss less painful, make everything easier to acquire and build, ship, and perhaps players will be more inclined to get out there and do more since they have 5 chances per ship, or they can capture a throwaway AI ship. While this won't be popular (hell even I don't like it) its more important to have a player base than the same 200 guys fighting each other for over 3000 hours.

I'm sure there is a nuanced position balancing all of the above into workable solution that fits more into the existing game roadmap, I do feel however tweaking these hi-sec/protection bubbles for the continually dwindling population will only be a stop gap, until there are 50 people out in the open world, and your expected to sail around for six hours to find one battle.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Rabman

[Sir Texas Sir]

@Capn Rocko isn’t RVR actually organized fair PvP and last check screening is PVP too.  Hell you don’t even have to flip it.  Every time we go to a French port to flip it they come out and smash our fleet so don’t tel me they don’t come out and stop folks.  Maybe the EU sit on there arse and let it turn to a PB but haven’t seen the that with any of the ports we have flipped in EU and US prime time owned by a PvP clan.  The problem is all the major PvPers Prussian, France, Pirarates hardly attack each other when US is the easier target present.  Y’all want to show how good you are come and fight the other guys.  Or just Lee getting paid off or locking each other boots.  I mean US only stays alive cause it has 50% of the game sales and most new players start out in it or GB.

[Licinio Chiavari]

2 hours ago, William Wade said:

@Licinio Chiavari  You really are a first class tool. Not only use a Requin to seal club players around capital ports but then you smack talk and put them down verbally for any mistake they might make. Just F Off already before more players quit. 

Why not telling all the story?

3 requins join a (GB) Pavel+p.frig+Requin v (rat) Herc+Requin on (obviously) pirate side.

Almost immediately join another GB: Cerberus (R.Adm.). Alone and upwind.

Would you consider a good tactic getting rid first of weakest enemy... Or, I suppose, in our position you would start from the Pavel (with other stuff firing at us)?

I and a pirate (Requin) turn on the Cerberus to insta kill him (BTW I had one side under 50%... So not the best idea to end off in a melee, right?).

The brilliant Cerberus keep sailing all the way at beam with me on downwind side. Granted a Requin is always a boarder, would you consider smart this Cerberus choise?

Obviously I got next to him, unopposed (only problem was the other pirate Requin badly positioned), a bit ahead of him (again: perfect tactic to counter a ship you know faster than you at beam and surely a boarder?).

Then quietly pushed him into the wind. Boarded (he has 25 preparation. Was I pushing his side just to help him to hit my side?... Or may be I was preparing for a boarding?) And fastly killed (his opening with fire deck guns finish to explain).

Then this Rear Admiral (just to remember) started (Yes: HE STARTED) insulting me (lack of skill, OPness of ship, P2W... You know the repertoire).

I quielty replied him that it was not my skill (or have you a selective memory? you remember only what you like to remember) nor my ship: he did (repeatly) something totally stupid (need to list again?). He went on with his whining mantra... And I repeated all the same.

Would he learn something from the battle? No. He'll keep saying "Requin broken, P2W...".

Could he learn something from the battle? Yes. Listening, observing and, why not, ASKING.

So.

Are you sure I am on the wrong side?

 

- - -      - - -      - - -

As an historical note joined the GB side also a 3 manned ROVER team (who decided to be paladins of KPR) and a Constitution.

Pavel started getting some distance as rest of us were focused on the British Requin (not random choise: getting rid of the only ship able to cut - in case - a retreat). He left as soon as possible (our fault not keeping him tagged) and then you on the p.frig slowed down leaving the British (quite upset for the - ??? - teamwork) Requin (who was good) to his destiny and dropped sail at safe distance to keep chatting. Then leave too.

Constitution turned and run immediately to ROVER again leaving as possible. We did the mistake to try to catch Hethwill upwind on his privateer (again the same rule: get rid fast of smaller ships before focussing the bigger).

So in the end 1 Cerberus + 1 Requin sunk only.

Do you really think it is the ship? The safezone? Or lack of it? Really.

 

PS: a couple of mates are so upset of your (and not only) posts and battle chats to think to pass to full out hunting in Jamaica, tagging and sinking any ship of any rank, cutters and recently killed included. Zero piety. Well done.

The funny part, if you'd read my proposals I am not too afar from asking a serious pvp free area for newbies and how to rebalance Requin. Close mind is a bad disease.

[Capn Rocko]

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

@Capn Rocko isn’t RVR actually organized fair PvP and last check screening is PVP too.  Hell you don’t even have to flip it.  Every time we go to a French port to flip it they come out and smash our fleet so don’t tel me they don’t come out and stop folks.  Maybe the EU sit on there arse and let it turn to a PB but haven’t seen the that with any of the ports we have flipped in EU and US prime time owned by a PvP clan.  The problem is all the major PvPers Prussian, France, Pirarates hardly attack each other when US is the easier target present.  Y’all want to show how good you are come and fight the other guys.  Or just Lee getting paid off or locking each other boots.  I mean US only stays alive cause it has 50% of the game sales and most new players start out in it or GB.

As a solo Polish player, I'll gladly show up to PvP whenever they do that. In the meantime, I'll hunt where the players are: free towns and capitals. Half of the time when hunting safe zones I find PvP with players from different nations. Tonight I found Frenchies while hunting at Trux so it all works out.

Is this an ideal situation? No. Do I think changes should be made? Yes. But simply saying "stop sealclubbing" or "go grind RvR" isn't going to change anything. The PvPers aren't killing the game, we are just playing the hand we are dealt by the developers. This is only a problem the developers can fix. It's just a matter if they do something about it and (more importantly) do it in a manner that benefits both the new players and the vets. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Capn Rocko

[Urchin]

1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

The funny part, if you'd read my proposals I am not too afar from asking a serious pvp free area for newbies and how to rebalance Requin. Close mind is a bad disease.

Simple fact is that you constantly camp KPR in a mod stacked Requin for easy kills only makes casual and new players rage and quit. Which is the last thing a game that is almost reduced to a handful of players and their alts needs. But you'll continue to do so because your obviously too short sighted to see that. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by William Wade

[Palatinose]

7 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

PS: understood! NA vets destroyed the game farming noobs for years... Now they got it is not good for the game... keep defending existing metas (never ever have to adapt. Right?)... and now cry and shout to people doing what they did for YEARS that it is not good for the game.

Linear.

Been telling this for months now. And yes I have farmed the shit out of KPR guys pre wipe. And don't get me wrong: ganking and unequal battles are an essential part of NA. And ask @HachiRoku, I'm a meta victim  

I had four pvp battles yesterday. One in Victory with three friends at the french (37 marks), one Diana duel against this EXILE bitch which I once again lost so shameful that I have to tell it here, one 1 vs X at the Dutch in an Essex (32 marks). And at last a 1v1 against a dutch Aga Captian who attacked me at Willemstadt, again ship was Essex (blue 4/5, french rig, copper, navy hull, rattlesnake, medium guns) (11 marks). 

Licinio I'm not sure whether it's my linear expanding antipathy on hit and run players or the exponentially rising dislike against your stubborn argumentation, but I will try to not comment further. #triggermebabe

Edited September 5, 2018 by Palatinose
marks count

[Sir Texas Sir]

So you made 71 marks.  I bet 99% of the US hasn’t even made that many marks in the last few months other than with the patrol mission lol.  All the while the guys farming the crap out of them get this prob daily.

[Dibbler (Retired)]

I sense a lot of big car small dick syndrome.

[Hethwill]

Jamaica, just as an example, was heavily raided back then same as any other nation home waters, but it was a chase, a 2 minute entry battle ( or insta close ones ). We didn't have the luxury of having 10 minutes and positional spawning.

I have sympathy for all raider types, but damn guys, you transformed this into a science. Literally you just "cut the chase"... there's no chase. Simply sit and wait and take advantage of the positional spawn to farm. Can't think of another word, sorry.

I know it is how the game is atm and I am one defending the no Safe Zones, but not like this, not with this RoE, this is nothing. This is "mugging" at its best and cannot believe any serious captain wanting to enact raider types likes it. It is pure gaming the game... but alas is not the player's fault, but the result of our requests.

Sorry to the guys we interrupted yesterday, but was a proof of concept. I simply don't understand why you all had the same comment in every single battle..

- "why you helping brits" -

You failed in your assessment. We weren't helping brits. We were trying to fight zone gankers.

Big difference.

[HachiRoku]

9 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

Been telling this for months now. And yes I have farmed the shit out of KPR guys pre wipe. And don't get me wrong: ganking and unequal battles are an essential part of NA. And ask @HachiRoku, I'm a meta victim  

I had four pvp battles yesterday. One in Victory with three friends at the french (37 marks), one Diana duel against this EXILE bitch which I once again lost so shameful that I have to tell it here, one 1 vs X at the Dutch in an Essex (32 marks). And at last a 1v1 against a dutch Aga Captian who attacked me at Willemstadt, again ship was Essex (blue 4/5, french rig, copper, navy hull, rattlesnake, medium guns) (11 marks). 

Licinio I'm not sure whether it's my linear expanding antipathy on hit and run players or the exponentially rising dislike against your stubborn argumentation, but I will try to not comment further. #triggermebabe

Don't be so hard on yourself. We win and we loose. Some of us just loose more often 😛 Speaking of marks I have made 8 marks in the last 2 months combined. Btw. Today @otto Kohl and I go Sweden. 

[King of Crowns]

5 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Don't be so hard on yourself. We win and we loose. Some of us just loose more often 😛 Speaking of marks I have made 8 marks in the last 2 months combined. Btw. Today @otto Kohl and I go Sweden. 

Waowww… way ride on the caot tails of the great nations. 

[HachiRoku]

8 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

Waowww… way ride on the caot tails of the great nations. 

Whats that supposed to mean? You have a problem with me going swed?

[Liq]

Oh wow this thread has gone somewhere.

But after reading through all of it, it seems like its just always going back and forth with no notable result.

A few months ago I was also against any sort of 100% safe zone, but time has changed my opinion. Smashing noobs at capitals will never get close to actual PvP (given that when I started the game I obviously was also a noob so I didnt see noob vs noob battles as a bad thing). Personally I dont get much joy from the chase itself, but more from the engagement and gunfire exchangement. Now I spend most of my time either in the nassau patrol zone or in and around free ports.

The guys defending no safe zones like the chase, and declare themselves as hunters. Fine. But cant there be a small safe spot for players to fall back and get their stuff together in parallel? Probably not at 400 players online. More likely at a full server. But in order to get there, there is a way to go. And THIS (see pic below) certainly isnt that way.

[King of Crowns]

9 minutes ago, Liq said:

Oh wow this thread has gone somewhere.

But after reading through all of it, it seems like its just always going back and forth with no notable result.

A few months ago I was also against any sort of 100% safe zone, but time has changed my opinion. Smashing noobs at capitals will never get close to actual PvP (given that when I started the game I obviously was also a noob so I didnt see noob vs noob battles as a bad thing). Personally I dont get much joy from the chase itself, but more from the engagement and gunfire exchangement. Now I spend most of my time either in the nassau patrol zone or in and around free ports.

The guys defending no safe zones like the chase, and declare themselves as hunters. Fine. But cant there be a small safe spot for players to fall back and get their stuff together in parallel? Probably not at 400 players online. More likely at a full server. But in order to get there, there is a way to go. And THIS (see pic below) certainly isnt that way.

SAFE ZONES have forced the game into this state..... this is the only way to get pvp without getting ganked to crap. 

[Percival Merewether]

24 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Jamaica, just as an example, was heavily raided back then same as any other nation home waters, but it was a chase, a 2 minute entry battle ( or insta close ones ). We didn't have the luxury of having 10 minutes and positional spawning.

This a very good point. As you probably know, I am heavily in favour of a completely secure 'Safe Zone', the current 'Safe Zone' provides new players with a false sense of security and that is why I want to address it.

With that being said... the system you describe above is what made me look to the Open World for safety as a beginner a long time ago -  the most important thing is that 'false safe zones' must go.

If everyone can agree on that.. Then what is best?

No Safe Zone? Or complete Safe Zone? I just have a  feeling that what made me look to OW will make others leave the game. I believe a complete safe zone with limited features is the way to go. If I was a new player and saw what happens in the current safe zone I'd be scared of going into the OW thinking that it can only be worse there.

[King of Crowns]

2 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said:

This a very good point. As you probably know, I am heavily in favour of a completely secure 'Safe Zone', the current 'Safe Zone' provides new players with a false sense of security and that is why I want to address it.

With that being said... the system you describe above is what made me look to the Open World for safety as a beginner a long time ago -  the most important thing is that 'false safe zones' must go.

If everyone can agree on that.. Then what is best?

No Safe Zone? Or complete Safe Zone? I just have a  feeling that what made me look to OW will make others leave the game. I believe a complete safe zone with limited features is the way to go. If I was a new player and saw what happens in the current safe zone I'd be scared of going into the OW thinking that it can only be worse there.

complete safe zone that maxed ranked players cannot enter into.  gg game over. I win. 

[Urchin]

This game use to have around 400 - 600  players average over 1,000 during peak times. But the vets would just spawn camp new and casual players day in day out,  now they complain there are no good fights and blame the devs the game is dead. And that's for a game that didn't have P2W, DLCs or take time and resources to craft what you used or gold to pay for it. 

 

[King of Crowns]

3 minutes ago, William Wade said:

This game use to have around 400 - 600  players average over 1,000 during peak times. But the vets would just spawn camp new and casual players day in day out,  now they complain there are no good fights and blame the devs the game is dead. And that's for a game that didn't have P2W, DLCs or take time and resources to craft what you used or gold to pay for it. 

 

GAME has been dying for 2 years. ever since release. multi factors. inconclusive evidence.

[Urchin]

Just now, King of Crowns said:

GAME has been dying for 2 years. ever since release. multi factors. inconclusive evidence.

Refering to a time over 18 years, it was already dead when they released it on steam as one last chance to revive it, player base had already left mainly for reason I stated.

[King of Crowns]

1 minute ago, William Wade said:

Refering to a time over 18 years, it was already dead when they released it on steam as one last chance to revive it, player base had already left mainly for reason I stated.

very few originals are left in the game. most left due to safe zones. newbs will always leave. vets leave to but usually because of bad mechanics such as safe zones. 

[Urchin]

I'm done with this discussion I can get more sense out of my three year old. 

[Longshot]

Honestly, I can't understand why PVPers players want to force into pvp people who doing there best to avoid pvp. 

[King of Crowns]

1 minute ago, Longshot said:

Honestly, I can't understand why PVPers players want to force into pvp people who doing there best to avoid pvp. 

because its the only thing we can do in this game. there is no one that wants to fight. 

[Longshot]

6 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

because its the only thing we can do in this game. there is no one that wants to fight. 

If there is on one who wants to fight, as you said; certainly they have something to do in game, just something different than constant shooting each other.