Patch 25: Open world user interface update.

[Dibbler (Retired)]

5 minutes ago, no one said:

Ok.  I found some info. 24 x 8 french pounder. 8 french pounder would be something like the 9 british pounder i supposed. So 9 pounder = 32 pd carronade in game. ok

However except the Requin, only the Niagara can carry 32 pd carronades . So is not reasonable to nerf the 32 pd carronade to 24 pd? Because if you compare both ships, well ....

Make them both 24lb carro's maybe?

So is sacrifice of range for over 250% pure poundage,  someone would have to check the DPS though of 9lbs vs 24lb carro's (not that nerdy).

Edited August 9, 2018 by Dibbler

[Mr Blazing Orange]

2 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

L'Ocean vs 2 Hercs (very good PvP players)

One sank, other barely alive escaped. 

I had also L'Ocean vs 4 Hercs, 2 sank and could probably kill other 2 if not connection problems and going afk for 10 minutes.

Man you barely survived we had two towers shooting us constantly you were only afk for one minute and we don´t even have any good Upgrade on the Ship. I EVEN TOLD CHERRY I MIGHT DIE NOW before i went in balls deep and did an obvious mistake because i was greedy. If we had used ANY mast Upgrades you´d have died easily. I am not trying to disrespect you but you cant demast good enough to hope to ever beat two good Hercs at once.

 

Cheers Guys the Herc is broken

[o Barão]

Just now, Dibbler said:

Make them both 24lb carro's maybe?

No because Requin is a much superior ship in comparison with the Niagara. Requin have the 250 crew , have bow and stern chasers  and if needed can always run away upwind. 32 pd carronades is what makes the Niagara special. And when i say special is not OP, but different .

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

When's the new Connie coming though?

[Dibbler (Retired)]

5 minutes ago, no one said:

No because Requin is a much superior ship in comparison with the Niagara. Requin have the 250 crew , have bow and stern chasers  and if needed can always run away upwind. 32 pd carronades is what makes the Niagara special. And when i say special is not OP, but different .

You say different, i just see over 350% poundage increase for range sacrifice but overall i guess dps difference is most important.  Req remember have no chain in bow guns (2lb's), am not a big fan of req but only fair to point out downsides also is about some balance overall.

[staun]

1 hour ago, Banished Privateer said:

You didn't got careless, you did MISTAKES. and that what gets players killed. On top of that you had big advantage of my 50% side HP gone because I went afk, I'm sure you can confirm this 2 kills in 1v4 is very satisfying result anyway, players here cry that it's not possible to win 1v2, which proof I even attached above.

And politi as I am, I offered you a chance to do it all over again.

[admin]

13 minutes ago, Mr Blazing Orange said:

Man you barely survived we had two towers shooting us constantly you were only afk for one minute and we don´t even have any good Upgrade on the Ship. I EVEN TOLD CHERRY I MIGHT DIE NOW before i went in balls deep and did an obvious mistake because i was greedy. If we had used ANY mast Upgrades you´d have died easily. I am not trying to disrespect you but you cant demast good enough to hope to ever beat two good Hercs at once.

 

we mentioned somewhere above to @Nuka  its not the hercules problem
its 5th rate vs ships of the line problem. 5th rates already have good fire power and still have high turn rate to make first rates feel helpless (if they dont know what they are doing). 
We know its an issue but do not have time yet to allocate to work it out (UI takes lots of time) without making 5th rates useless.

[Mr Blazing Orange]

I disagree, Trincs or Endys cannot take down a nearly as easily (if they even can at all)1.Rate because they will get reload shocked broadside on broadside, because they are longer and higher than the Hercules. They are also not as nimble so dodging and Stern Camping is much harder. 

 

Everyone can have their own Opinion, but i will try my best to sway yours because you have control in this Game.

 

The Herc´s lenghth/firepower ratio is too high. I dont know how to explain it but really look at this ship very closely please. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Mr Blazing Orange

[o Barão]

2 minutes ago, Dibbler said:

You say different, i just see over 350% poundage increase for range sacrifice but overall i guess dps difference is most important.  Req remember have no chain in bow guns (2lb's), am not a big fan of req but only fair to point out downsides also is about some balance overall.

Yes of course it is important to point out the downsides, and take notice i still didn't see the buffs they made to the 6th rates, so take what i say with a grain of salt. There are people saying that snow now is very good. I already thought the snow was amazing , a mini Hercules. Now? IDK.

However about the Requin. I bought that ship.

-The 2p carronades don't have chain but are amazing to kill crew from the stern or the front. ( however only 5 dmg per shot is horrible )

- it is so low in the water that is very difficult to hit her at medium/ long ranges, and you can troll some ships by hugging them or sticking the nose in the butt and start to kill the crew with those 2pd cannons.

- It is incredilble hard to aim up in the Requin, even with battle sails and depower them .

- Manual sails in the Requin is crazy. If you are not paying attention for one second you can see the Requin losing speed quickly or starting to go on a crazy reverse speed. It is diificult to say. it is difficult to use them but at the same time if you use them correctly you can make some crazy brakes to board and others fancy maneuvers.

 

So yes there are downsides, however it is a monster for boarding and in case of problems you can always run away upwind. Niagara only haves 32 pd carronades to make her special.

[[TOXIC] LoneHunter]

1 minute ago, dark lord rediii said:

I still cant believe @admin made such a trollship a DLC ship.

Keeping people in battles everywhere and shit like this it's not enjoyable.

maybe there ´ll be much more like these ships in the furture ?

[Bluetooth]

I am so sick of self appointed experts rubbishing everything the devs try.

This is becoming a joke.

The devs have explained their points and their reasoning behind those points.

Many of you have argued and put across your views as is your right as testers of this alpha game.

If the devs dont want to do what YOU WANT. GET OVER IT!

If you cannot except what they are doing with the game then feel free to move on and let the rest of us continue to test and enjoy it.

Just stop with the same old crap again and again and again.

[[TOXIC] LoneHunter]

4 minutes ago, Crow said:

I am so sick of self appointed experts rubbishing everything the devs try.

This is becoming a joke.

The devs have explained their points and their reasoning behind those points.

Many of you have argued and put across your views as is your right as testers of this alpha game.

If the devs dont want to do what YOU WANT. GET OVER IT!

If you cannot except what they are doing with the game then feel free to move on and let the rest of us continue to test and enjoy it.

Just stop with the same old crap again and again and again.

It´s a Forum where you can discuss and everyone could write his statement.

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

I dont think @admin that anyone wants a devastating nerf to the le requin. I think though in its current state in the game that the ship is far superior than majority of 5th rates and can easily solo most 4th rates. It has even replaced all ships minus the mortar brig in the shallow port battles. There is very little weakness to the ships sailing profile and very little downside to using the ship.

 

A dlc ship should be good. You want it to sell and be worth the consumers money. But you do not want it to excel beyond other ships that are already apart of the game. It needs to fit well in the game and compliment components that already exist. Unfortunately the requin is not doing that. This is testing phase as well so we can test it and adjust accordingly.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Davos Seaworth

[Palatinose]

4 hours ago, admin said:

Hmmm. I do not see the hercules problem on this screen. That is frigate/light frigate versus line ship balance problem
Average unescorted Bellona will have troubles against ANY 2 5th rates in the current state of the game. And i think its a known issue but we are not sure it needs addressing. As it will drastically reduce variety.  

If we assume equal skill for Bellona and the two 5th: I don't agree. Most two 5th's will have big trouble against a Bellona. Most 5th's don't turn fast enough to avoid Bellonas broadsides for either masts or hull. 

Herc is just on another lvl due to bow-to-stern length, turning and armament. Best trick against 3rds and bigger: they'll try to sail upwind (which works perfectly against other 5th's) and all you need to do is shoot one braodside having the weather gauge, tack shoot the other, turn further and repeat. It works almost all the time. 

The mast hp and thickness nerf is a start, though I think more is needed.

[staun]

6 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

and I didn't reject the offer, but first I need to deal with Vazco and some other stuff

First Graffi and now you. What have we done since you all lost interest in us😡

[vazco]

4 hours ago, Gott365 said:

Then we could define L´Océans as OP aswell, since they are 99% of the heavy PB fleets...

Maybe we can define OP like this: A ship, that cannot only compete with every other ship in its class, but also with ships that should be stronger per definition (higher class).

L'Oceans are well balanced with BR. In PB's where you can't fit in 25 SOL's they are almost never alone. To me that's a fairly good balance in RvR.

I undestand what you're saying - that in 1st rate range they're OP. I think they're not. There are 3 1st rates and all have their purposes. Well used Santis are stronger than L'Oceans (just my opinion). Well used Victories are more maneuverable than L'Oceans. They're the weakest SOL, but may still have their purposes.

 

What is OP is floating battery - it just gives two bonuses which give 2 additional bonuses. Together you have:

• fast reload, approx 33% more DPS
• 25% more HP
• approx. 5-10% more efficient armour due to higher HP
• 25% more efficient repairs

Counting this together you may have approx. 60-70% DPS efficiency (just a wild shot)

You loose 15% speed, but that's not enough.

There are countering tactics for floating batteries, but they are boring  

[GhastlyGhost]

Another bad thing is that Le Broken dont have "free" counterpart. Without DLC some players cant join PB due to fact that we don`t have aternative ship for it.

[vazco]

35 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Maybe in slow BR ports, but Santi is flat, so its thickness is almost irrelevant. 25 Santis vs 25 Oceans, Oceans will win.

25 vs 25 - yes, it's not well used then. In limited groups they're stronger though. In general, diversity in 1st rates gives you some strengths you can play to. Diversity in shallows before patch gave you only weakness (and I need to test to see how it is now).

Edited August 9, 2018 by vazco

[Havelock]

@admin

Hachi aint the only one being very sceptical about the DLC ships, especially the Le Requin. We currently see that it is the best ship in shallow PBs, making non-DLC ships pointless. Even after the 6th rate rebalance, it still offers same thickness, HP and mast values than the others but still outclasses them all in dmg/broadside, dps, crew, speed and has the bowsprit advantage. Even in deep water PBs, we see about 2-4 Le Requins per side in almost every battle. They are not counterable with any other 80BR ship, and sending 5th rates to them is pointless as you need to invest way more BR and cant even sink it (theres even the risk of getting totally owned).

Furthermore, its being used as a troll ship via endless tagging, theres absolutely no risk involved in sailing it, groups of Le Requin buyers can roam any capital waters unpunished. While of course Early Access means a game can change, ill just ask you... are you happy with the current state of the Le Requin?

[Bluetooth]

1 hour ago, Nuka said:

It´s a Forum where you can discuss and everyone could write his statement.

Saying the same thing over and over and over again does not make you correct it makes you a troll.

The devs have said what they are doing.

They have said why they are doing it.

What else can they say or do??

If you don't except it, move on.

[Carlos_Condell]

6 hours ago, admin said:

Essex? Belle Poule? In good hands will seriously challenge Herc (which is a 5th rate too) and will most likely win against Le requin if running is prohibited for both parties..

Admin the big problem with herc is his speed, she deflect too many shots, even 42pd at close range, mast thickness and hitpoint, i fought many time hercs and requins and now i avoid fight them cause give you no rewards if u win... u cant cap the ship and if you sink it you earn only 5pvp mark vs if they sink you they have more money and rewards, can take your ship and do normal stuff, but if u use NPC ( i support that idea, cause i use them all the time) u will lose... herc in good hands are almost unsincable even if you are good ( wich i like to believe i am)
requins are pick your fight or run... but is a real plage!! all are sailing omy requins and herc, cause has no risk at all !!! No time involve in gather resourses, no building needed, no PVP mark required, no nothing... and u have a good OP fast, sturdy ship, well crewded, with addition of determined defender u are the lord of the seas... still you dont see the big picture here... many small things are making the ship OP, and turn the game in shallows P2W, go to any PVP zone... u will see only hercs and requins ( mostly) also u can put Poods and Bic carronades in a herc... making more dangerous than a cerverous, essex, endymion, friggate or any other 5th rate... his turn rate overturn most of his kind too... plus is shallow... so need a good re balance... specially in the deflection thing... u cangle that ship just 5 degrees and u can deflect the entarely broadside, is nuts!!
 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Carlos_Condell

[vazco]

45 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Santis were never top 1 ship in 1st rate PBs. Before everyone used Victories, now everyone uses L'Oceans, 1st rates are simply not balanced. Santi model is very old and bad, the model is so oooooooold that the cannons are fake placeholders. Take out all your guns from Santi and go into the battle, you will see them in battle but they won't be there. Santi was one of the very first ships added into the NA. New models are much better and accurate.

You're not adressing my comment at all  

Are you claiming that having a Santi in your fleet is never useful, and that it's just as useless replacing L'Ocean with Santi as replacing one of your Requins in a shallow PB with some other ship before the patch? This is the opposite of my statement.

Edited August 9, 2018 by vazco

[vazco]

12 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

I am claiming that maybe 1-2 Santis max could be good and that is still not very profiting or perfect setup. Here we go: 605 BR vs 580 BR, 25 BR difference. Now it takes only 3-4 Santis replaced by Oceans to toss in additional Mortar Brig or Requin or even Prince. Santis would be fine with 580 BR and remodeled hull, but right now Santis are only good in 1v1 or against small ships. They don't fit in fleet composition, they can't participate in fleet sailing (like line formations) because if you watch PB streams from rediii for example or other streamers, it's always said "focus Santis first", "It's easier to penetrate/kill them". That is sad truth. 

On the other hand Victories became inferior again because their lost their "upwind sailing" advantage and they are susceptible to leaks and their HP was reduced.

TLDR version: you want to find some points where you don't agree with me and want to maneuver out of points where you do 

[[TOXIC] LoneHunter]

1 hour ago, Crow said:

Saying the same thing over and over and over again does not make you correct it makes you a troll.

mhmmmmmmmmm.

The devs have said what they are doing.

They have said why they are doing it.

What else can they say or do??

If you don't except it, move on.

Maybe I explained something wrong .

A Forum is , where people can discuss or write down their own statement to a topic.

(damn said that Forum thing again , now i´m a troll )

That includes , that sometimes same statement could appear from several people, or they discuss about a statement.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Nuka

[vazco]

1 minute ago, Banished Privateer said:

Do you know how stuff is balanced in other games, like WoT, War Thunder, and other that sorta games? Devs see the exact % of which ships/tanks/items/weapons are used the most. Then they make slight buffs/nerfs until things even out. Every ship should have a good purpose, strong side etc. 

That's the approach I'm advocating for quite a while  In fact, NA has a great environment for setting a system like this - stats of what ships are used in PB's could be used to balance them out automatically by BR.

 

3 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

even Privateer, Cerberus or Essex could find some use in PB or other fight, but that doesn't mean they are good or balanced. They are terrible ships and finding a positive thing or use for them won't change that fact. 

Here's a task for you - find a positive side of using something else than Requin in PB's from before the patch (discluding MBrigs on offence).

That's the difference between an unbalanced ship, and an unbalanced PB tier.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

even Bellonas with 32s easily pen Santi from distance while L'Oceans slightly angled bounce stuff at 250m.

I know, that's why we focused you in Santi in the last fight. Still, Santi has it's uses. Even the weakness which you mentioned - that it's focused - can be an advantage.