Le Requin Testing and Feedback

[Aquillas]

18 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

I have still nightmares of Wasas stardestroyers.

And it lasted more.

And against that level of meta (and undoubtely skill too) there was no counter at all.

The present (non-exhaustive) list of useless ships is:

• Cutter (slower upwind and downwind than xebecs. Just food for Requins. Can be used only as harasser of SOL’s, when Reqs are absent)
• Privateer (slower upwind and downwind than xebecs, the ship I lost the most to xebecs)
• Prince de Neufchatel, Brigs, Snow, Navy Brig, Rattlesnake, Rattlesnake Heavy, Mercury, Niagara (slower upwind than xebecs, out powered by Hercules, no more room for them in shallow areas). I use them just because I like challenges.
• Traders Lynx, Trader Cutters (slower than Reqs, upwind and downwind. In case of fight, don’t lose time, just surrender)
• Basic Cutter (slower upwind and downwind than xebecs, just food for Requins)

Edited August 27, 2018 by Aquillas

[Licinio Chiavari]

2 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

• Privateer (slower upwind and downwind than xebecs, the ship I lost the most to xebecs)
• Prince de Neufchatel,... Niagara...
• Traders Lynx...

1. A pirate rigged privateer is speed capped close haul even if teak/teak, and can be done capped at beam too in combat, and faster in OW. I am doing some tests in these days. And Xebec missing chain ball on bow chasers... Cant really chase a skilled privateer. Real limited usefulness of privateer is she would require a serious crew buff (around 100) as historically they were used as boarding pirates.

2. Niagara: other tests ongoing. She Can be fitted to be speed capped at beam: so able to keep distance with Requin and flee anything else. Aside being faster than Requin running with the wind and faster closehaul than any other 5th rate.

3. A trader is 99% in any case dead (especially if loaded).

[Hethwill]

You are wrong on the Privateer. Forget the curves. Wood for wood, mod for mod, she is faster.

Same with the Lynx. Same with the Pickle. Same with the Prince.

All these can evade the Xebec against the Xebec worst wind.

[Aquillas]

21 minutes ago, z4ys said:

really any schooner can do that 😉 A bellona is a bellona always easy to outplay with the right rigging

 

You escaped at 7 knots. The xebec I saw was running at more than 12 knots with 50% sails (the speed of my Brig, with 100% sails).

The same brig (14 knots on the data sheet) got partially dismasted the following fight. I got 50 % of sails, and 7 knots. So no, the same rules do not apply.

I agree this xebec would have escaped the Bello, but not the frigates which were around.

[Aquillas]

2 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

You are wrong on the Privateer. Forget the curves. Wood for wood, mod for mod, she is faster.

Same with the Lynx. Same with the Pickle. Same with the Prince.

All these can evade the Xebec against the Xebec worst wind.

Evade, yes. Attack, no. A defense fleet must attack!

Or do we have to consider that Xebecs cannot be attacked, this being frozen and cannot be changed, other ships being limited to run if they can or sink if they can't,

Edited August 27, 2018 by Aquillas

[Hethwill]

Just now, Aquillas said:

Evade, yes. Attack, no. A defense fleet must attack!

Then attack. Bracket the Xebec, close her best angles. And shoot her until she sinks.

Disclaimer: might require teamwork.

[Aquillas]

So that we will, again, hear xebec cowards whining because being ganked, blablabla.

[Licinio Chiavari]

Just now, Aquillas said:

Evade, yes. Attack, no. A defense fleet must attack!

Correct. Use better what GB "Baywatch" has: numbers (and free and tactical, if well used, spawning).

This is a plain issue of rich vets not adapting.

US Coast guard had to adapt in DarkWasas time (I usually sailed taggers, often fir/fir - fast but expendable - but always with pino ocote+winged out).

Jamaica Baywatch has too.

[Hethwill]

Just now, Aquillas said:

So that we will, again, hear xebec cowards whining because being ganked, blablabla.

Music to my senses. 

Like Pirate Jesus said - Like delivered, so shall you receive. No mercy.

[Thomas Boyle]

29 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

All ships overperform because of mods / books.

Speed curves are flat against the envelope and even with rig damage they retain the excess promoted by the mods/books.

*facepalm* mods/books again... In a base condition(empty) dlc ships are OP. Speed, gun class, bow/stern cannons etc.

29 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

What you say has nothing to do with Xebec, but all ships. 

It's just your opinion.

28 minutes ago, Crow said:

They are here to stay this thread is about how to help them fit in.

The comments you made don't help anyone.

Your comments are the same.

28 minutes ago, Crow said:

Nice redcoat by the way.

thx. (Age of Pirates 2: City of Abandoned Ships)

//

As somebody said yesterday in global chat "DLC lovers, defenders of devs, paladins of... " Too much an idle talk here. Most of us are DLChaters or DLClovers/fans.

I don't see the way to balance these ships because of DLC rules. So make them avaliable for all by some expensive ingame methods.

[Licinio Chiavari]

Just now, Aquillas said:

So that we will, again, hear xebec cowards whining because being ganked, blablabla.

Never whining about being over- ganked.

I mocked a lot these ganks AFTER being taunted or called coward for disengaging alone on Requin vs. 10+ 3-5th rates.

[Hethwill]

Glad we agree. Any weak ship will be made quite strong due to other options.

Any heavy build can be made lighter due to other options.

 

[Aquillas]

 

7 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Never whining about being over- ganked.

I mocked a lot these ganks AFTER being taunted or called coward for disengaging alone on Requin vs. 10+ 3-5th rates.

I was often insulted by Xebec captains. The last one (@Casanova Moderne) telling "stop whining, come to fight", while he was running... (yesterday, 16:59 server time)

Edited August 27, 2018 by Aquillas

[AeRoTR]

* Thing is most of the upwind sailors can escape the bigger ships. Problem xebec can also espace other small ships, now that is a big difference.

* Can somebody tell me, how an xebec can break bow spirit of Hercules, yet Hercules can not damage the xebec bow spirit?

* Xebec model has problems with hit box. I aim at xebec bow spirit from the side, I come full speed. I arrive my intended point exactly at tip of xebec, yet I keep going into it, no collision ! He keeps passing and I keep going, and I hit and make the collision to it's stern, I travell inside the xebec with my ship until I hit it is stern. 

* Still there is problem with sail hit box, most shots fly through it.

* What other ship can farm reinforcement aside (it is a 6th rate !) , last night I remember like Luici bros farmed around 100-120 pvp marks in KPR greenzone. Can they farm same pvp marks with Hercs ? Is this normal , aside from being DLC, aside from being it a 6th rate, for any ship, is this normal ? (1st/2nd/.... most try, very good players yet they mostly fail)

* Can somebody tell me, how all the ships benefit and suffer from Rig Refits, like spanish and pirate. Elite spanish +30 downwind -30 upwind etc. yet Xebec only benefits from rig refits +30 upwind or +15 upwind, as it  only has staysails, it this fair ?

* A ships which can bypass the Determined Defender magic perk, you can not fight it with small ships. As it will turn you into wind, cause it speeds up into wind, can board you instantly and does not give a shit about your DD perk. Is this fair ?

* I can beat a Le Req in a Prince, but it is not easy. I have to risk ship with lots of mods, to beat a standart pirate rig fitted free to redeem Le Req. I can not play boarding as it has at least double crew. Why would I bother? 

* In which ship 1st/2nd ...... 7th rate, you can tag players in their reinforcement zone with such a reckless manner? There was only prince only when captain was exceptional, and he has to work hard.

* Aside from defenders of the Red Sail who owns the ship obviously, no body will defend this ship, we all know this ship is P2W and OP with or without OP mods.

*** Hope this ship would be the last big failure of the developers, I do not think NA community can swallow 1 more...

*** @admin next dlc ships, please let us test them properly, give us the dlc as free, after ship is balanced and test is done, remove the dlc. You gave us 1 note, most people did not bother, some lost it quick, it is much different when you can redeem a ship every 24hr , so has to be tested for 1-2 months with redeemables. I do not want to think you guys released this ship knowing it is super OP. I really think this ship hurt the NA, many people are upset, some has left.

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by AeRoTR

[Vernon Merrill]

AeroTr, the previous 5 pages have given you multiple answers to your questions...  the fact that you refuse to alter YOUR play style to is NOT everyone else’s problem.  Yes, if you sail solo, Xebec is hard to beat escape.  Sailing solo has ALWAYS been the biggest challenge in game.  It SHOULD BE dangerous.  

P.S.— I don’t have the DLC’s and my redeemable Xebec has never left port.  

[Lovec1990]

6 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

*** @admin next dlc ships, please let us test them properly, give us the dlc, after ship is balanced and test is done, remove the dlc. You gave us 1 note, most people did not bother, some lost it quick, it is much different when you can redeem a ship every 24hr , so has to be tested for 1-2 months with redeemables. I do not want to think you guys released this ship knowing it is super OP. I really think this ship hurt the NA, many people are upset, some has left.

 

I think you wrote it wrong did you mean they give us free DLC ship for 1-2 months after that free DLC is removed and placed into Steam Shop as normal DLC?

they could just give each 30x Ship notes to each then after 2 months ship appears as DLC ship 

[Hethwill]

#nafanboy Want all ships to feel credible, not magical.

[Licinio Chiavari]

14 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

* Thing is most of the upwind sailors can escape the bigger ships. Problem xebec can also espace other small ships, now that is a big difference.

* Can somebody tell me, how an xebec can break bow spirit of Hercules, yet Hercules can not damage the xebec bow spirit?

* Xebec model has problems with hit box. I aim at xebec bow spirit from the side, I come full speed. I arrive my intended point exactly at tip of xebec, yet I keep going into it, no collision ! He keeps passing and I keep going, and I hit and make the collision to it's stern, I travell inside the xebec with my ship until I hit it is stern. 

* Still there is problem with sail hit box, most shots fly through it.

* What other ship can farm reinforcement aside (it is a 6th rate !) , last night I remember like Luici bros farmed around 100-120 pvp marks in KPR greenzone. Can they farm same pvp marks with Hercs ? Is this normal , aside from being DLC, aside from being it a 6th rate, for any ship, is this normal ? (1st/2nd/.... most try, very good players yet they mostly fail)

* Can somebody tell me, how all the ships benefit and suffer from Rig Refits, like spanish and pirate. Elite spanish +30 downwind -30 upwind etc. yet Xebec only benefits from rig refits +30 upwind or +15 upwind, as it  only has staysails, it this fair ?

* A ships which can bypass the Determined Defender magic perk, you can not fight it with small ships. As it will turn you into wind, cause it speeds up into wind, can board you instantly and does not give a shit about your DD perk. Is this fair ?

* I can beat a Le Req in a Prince, but it is not easy. I have to risk ship with lots of mods, to beat a standart pirate rig fitted free to redeem Le Req. I can not play boarding as it has at least double crew. Why would I bother? 

* In which ship 1st/2nd ...... 7th rate, you can tag players in their reinforcement zone with such a reckless manner? There was only prince only when captain was exceptional, and he has to work hard.

* Aside from defenders of the Red Sail who owns the ship obviously, no body will defend this ship, we all know this ship is P2W and OP with or without OP mods..

 

1. running upwind has been historically the escape route of privateers and pirates against hunting fleets.

2./3. For Xebec losing bowsprint is not an issue. No sense discussing about making her losing hers.

4. also chaining schooners sails is tricky. Best advice on both: go sigle shot.

5, any ship able to kill in few minutes and able to outrun revenge fleet... as it was in the past. As Palatinose pointed out he sees no difference between xebex and previous 5th rate firfir meta.

6. As stated billions times: NERF ALL MODS, especially force mods. You'll get a Requin going at 9 kts running with the wind and barely doing 12 at broad reach. And no more Flying Bellonas, Ingermanlands, etc...

7. Determined Defender is pure crap.

8. Do you think majority of raiding Xebecs in KPR arent costly modded? my Requins costs a medium value of 5mil each. The same goes in any 5th rate duel: you will have a real hard (or impossible) time trying to beat an experienced captain (not skilled, only experienced) with 5-10mil worth mods with an un modded shop ship.

9. Boarding is the fastest way to kill a target. And time matters a lot in enemy safe zone. Requin is only a perfect boarder. And defending in a boarding is buffed so hard from the past making boarding attack ludicrously nerfed. Next step could be deleting boarding at all.

10. without mods she will be nothing exceptional: repeating no. 6.

 

[AeRoTR]

4 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

AeroTr, the previous 5 pages have given you multiple answers to your questions...  the fact that you refuse to alter YOUR play style to is NOT everyone else’s problem.  Yes, if you sail solo, Xebec is hard to beat escape.  Sailing solo has ALWAYS been the biggest challenge in game.  It SHOULD BE dangerous.  

P.S.— I don’t have the DLC’s and my redeemable Xebec has never left port.  

So you say I should not sail solo in reinforcement zone, close to coast. Cause I got jumped out of my combat mission in Pfrig close to PM by 3 red sails. I guess it is my fault, I should have escorts waiting out of my combat mission. Tell the devs to release ESCORT DLC which counters Xebec so we can sail in our very safe green zone.

So how should I carry iron from PM to KPR ? Need escort I guess, give me that escort ship dlc.

None of my questions has been answered, I laugh at that video showing privateer running away from the Bellona. 

Reinforcement zone became a trap for the owners of the zone. They can tag, join positional around, just finish your sails, and kill you. No one gonna arrive in time, yet they won't care about the stupid ai.

So why should I adapt so Devs earn more money, I spent many hours for this game, why should I  change everthing I know, I grinded ? Why are you defending them ? Why do you get hurt by the critisim of the Xebec ? Or this mission has been given to you so raging community rages between each other, rage stays contained in the forum? 

Game development is sensible bussiness, you sell the product, after that you have to RESPECT your community. No body gave this game free, this ain't free to play title. I spend my time here in the forum for not defending my percious DLC ship, but to help other causals to have fun thus keeping them in game. Trying to give opinions to improve the game.

I am hundred percent sure, people are moving away, one single reason is xebec. 

@Vernon Merrill please you guys do not defend the developers about this ship. It is what you guys (should I tell the names? you understand) look like doing in this post and it looks pathetic. Defensive posts are not even close to being satisfactory, but seem like just doing something to defend.

 

 

[Licinio Chiavari]

3 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

Reinforcement zone became a trap for the owners of the zone. They can tag, join positional around, just finish your sails, and kill you. No one gonna arrive in time, yet they won't care about the stupid ai.

Never sufficiently repeated tip: GET OUT REINFORCEMENT ZONE... and spread around.

[AeRoTR]

16 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

1. running upwind has been historically the escape route of privateers and pirates against hunting fleets.

correct, I have no problem with this.

2./3. For Xebec losing bowsprint is not an issue. No sense discussing about making her losing hers.

yes but it does not looks normal, something is broken.

4. also chaining schooners sails is tricky. Best advice on both: go sigle shot.

yes, but close distance 100m focus, those small sail clothes should be torn apart. I do agree single shot, but time window will be very limited.

5, any ship able to kill in few minutes and able to outrun revenge fleet... as it was in the past. As Palatinose pointed out he sees no difference between xebex and previous 5th rate firfir meta.

correct, cancer has a new form.

6. As stated billions times: NERF ALL MODS, especially force mods. You'll get a Requin going at 9 kts running with the wind and barely doing 12 at broad reach. And no more Flying Bellonas, Ingermanlands, etc...

definitly, nerf them all.

7. Determined Defender is pure crap.

yes

8. Do you think majority of raiding Xebecs in KPR arent costly modded? my Requins costs a medium value of 5mil each. The same goes in any 5th rate duel: you will have a real hard (or impossible) time trying to beat an experienced captain (not skilled, only experienced) with 5-10mil worth mods with an un modded shop ship.

But still you can put a pirate rig + plus skillbooks = good to raid. But you won't be farming 100-150 marks with your friends may be half.

9. Boarding is the fastest way to kill a target. And time matters a lot in enemy safe zone. Requin is only a perfect boarder. And defending in a boarding is buffed so hard from the past making boarding attack ludicrously nerfed. Next step could be deleting boarding at all.

But you will chainboard so no meaning to defend buff etc. When I force any red sail in boarding game, he will disengage and chain boarding will result the fight, defender has zero chance.

10. without mods she will be nothing exceptional: repeating no. 6.

I do agree, maybe a bit weaker hull is needed.

Thanks for the answers from a xebec elite.

Edited August 27, 2018 by AeRoTR

[admin]

Regarding port battle influence - issue will be fixed first (and will have a real working solution)

BR should be a reflection of power
Depth should allow or deny entry

If rattlesnake heavy is 80 BR and le requin is 160-180 BR (with adjustments of other ships as well) then captains will actually have a proper choice for port battles, and might pick 2 rattlesnakes instead. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, admin said:

Regarding port battle influence - issue will be fixed first (and will have a real working solution)

BR should be a reflection of power
Depth should allow or deny entry

If rattlesnake heavy is 80 BR and le requin is 160-180 BR (with adjustments of other ships as well) then captains will actually have a proper choice for port battles, and might pick 2 rattlesnakes instead. 

will you also fix so Crew hitboxes are more vulnerable on the weatherdeck? for example requin, prince, mercury all of these ships crew would suffer alot if a grape broadside went flying over the weatherdeck if they're not bracing and taking cover.

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Regarding port battle influence - issue will be fixed first (and will have a real working solution)

BR should be a reflection of power
Depth should allow or deny entry

If rattlesnake heavy is 80 BR and le requin is 160-180 BR (with adjustments of other ships as well) then captains will actually have a proper choice for port battles, and might pick 2 rattlesnakes instead. 

While in the right step this doesn't stop the crew/boarding abuse problems.  Right now no other shallow ships can even have close to the same crew as the Requin without mods.  Niagara can only get to 240 If I remember right now and that is only if you stack every crew mod/build on the ship.  While the Requin can go as far as 387.   A crew fit Niagara going against a only board build Requin with 250 crew is going to destroy the Niagara cause it isn't hit by moral.  If it's crew fit than the crew is so high that it pretty much one shots any other shall ships even without board mods.  This is the biggest issue I keep seeing every one avoiding when we talk about balance of the ship.  It's why it should not be in SHALLOW WATER PB's.

Unless your going to give it heavy penalitys agaisnt being graped to crew lost which it needs cause it's a very fragil open deck ship.   Which other than moral any time crew mods are stacked they should have added crew lost when hit cause of over crowding.

[Licinio Chiavari]

1 hour ago, AeRoTR said:

Thanks for the answers from a xebec elite.

Duty mate.

1. ✔️

2./3. The problem could be balanced having Requin going in rigging shock losing bowsprint even without sail damage; making her losing foremast with bowsprint could be a bit too punishing.

4. Locked, single shot, aim center sail. A reason Requin raiders avoid other Requin: being both speed capped (usually) it ends being a very long grinding battle (you saw my long duel) with very limited reward (5 marks) and definately very risky in enemy safezone.

5./6./7. ✔️

8. Depending on luck you can farm the same. Still higher chances to be sunk.

9. I got side to side to push. I get a broadside. I board. You are prepared with barricades+axes. Boarding ends soon with you alive and get another broadside. I (maybe) board again you (there's the 60 sec timer): rise and repeat. Without time problem (safezone) a Requin will sterncamp more to be sure to kill. But time is limited. So Requin is in hurry and he'll board as soon as possible.

10. A light Requin has like 200 hp more than a teak privateer. Cutting another 100 will change nothing. Cutting more will be no-sense.