An advanced PvP guide

[vazco]

I recorded my Trinco duel with Rorona, explaining my thought process and plans in subtitles. This gives you an unique option to get "into my head" during a fight. It can be a good guide for those of you who want to polish their PvP skills.

( I know I could have done a few things better and more effective. Critique and comments are welcomed. )

 

 

 

@admin I think this video, or similar ones, can be quite useful for new PvP players.

 

Should people find this video interesting, I can voice-comment similar battles in the future.

[Aster]

Equal ships cannot break each others bow. You must be in a "Heavier" ship to take a bow.

[vazco]

1 hour ago, Aster said:

Equal ships cannot break each others bow. You must be in a "Heavier" ship to take a bow.

As far as I know that's not true - unless something changed  Sometimes you need more than one hit, or a significant speed. You can however take out a Trinc's bowsprit with another Trinc - I did this many times. It's just not easy. It's much easier eg. with Endymions.

Edited May 20, 2018 by vazco

[King of Crowns]

53 minutes ago, vazco said:

As far as I know that's not true - unless something changed  Sometimes you need more than one hit, or a significant speed. You can however take out a Trinc's bowsprit with another Trinc - I did this many times. It's just not easy. It's much easier eg. with Endymions.

no sir you cannot. equal ships will never take out a bow sprit on the ram. 

[Mr Pellew]

3 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

no sir you cannot. equal ships will never take out a bow sprit on the ram. 

I think this isn't true but I think it's time for some sience

 

[Roronoa]

Nice Video ^^ , i can see exactly where i did mistakes. Good tipps in general.

 

 

 

stop recording how you bash noobs!

[HachiRoku]

1 hour ago, Mr Pellew said:

I think this isn't true but I think it's time for some sience

 

name the ship that can do it to the same ship? I cant think of one. Trincos cannot loose bow sprits to trincos. They loose them to indefs only from the 5th rates. Maybe indiaman and maybe I forgot another larger 5th. 

[vazco]

5 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

name the ship that can do it to the same ship?

Definitely Niagara to Niagara or Merc to Merc (which is a common strategy in PB's) and Endymion to Endymion  I'd bet it's same with a Surprise and probably a Belle Poule.

Trincos have strong bowsprits, however I remember one scenario where I broke the bowsprit in a direct ram and a few where I did this in a brawl between a few ships... Maybe my memory makes tricks on me though, or maybe those Trincos had damaged structure. It's indeed time for science  

Edited May 20, 2018 by vazco

[King of Crowns]

post video proving this pls. 

[vazco]

I just tested Surp vs Surp and indeed it doesn't work for them (armour goes to 0 and nothing happens). I guess Trincos wouldn't work as well, as they have heavier bowsprits.

Shallow ships definitely work, I don't even think we need a video for this - probably everyone in a shallow ship lost a bowsprit in the past.

I still want to test Endymion, as I broke someone's bowsprit in a duel. Maybe it's again just my memory playing tricks on me.

Anyway, thanks for good remarks, I shouldn't go for a bowsprit in this fight  

Edited May 20, 2018 by vazco

[Havelock]

vazco is right, bowsprits are their own science. E.g. a Pavel loses to an Ingermanland which is very strange, and then we also have the Victory magic which doesnt lose its bowsprit to anything even tho Santi and L'Ocean are higher on large parts of their hull. For shallow ships, Mercury doesnt lose vs anyone (well, maybe Herc) even tho the RSH is definetely larger, while RSH and Niagara lose them very easily even against Brigs.

This game has a weird bowsprit ranking and you need to find out yourself whom you can or can not ram. Afaik the Trinco loses no bowsprit up to Endy, but is quite vulnerable to anything above (i guess because of her high hull). In return, all ships up to Endy lose their bowsprit to her, except the Trinco herself.

[Mr Pellew]

7 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

name the ship that can do it to the same ship? I cant think of one. Trincos cannot loose bow sprits to trincos. They loose them to indefs only from the 5th rates. Maybe indiaman and maybe I forgot another larger 5th. 

I was pretty sure Oceans loose them to Oceans. Will test today and let you know.

[vazco]

9 minutes ago, Havelock said:

For shallow ships, Mercury doesnt lose vs anyone

In a few shallow PB's which I commanded before Niagara was broadly available we fought with and against full-merc fleets and we won those battles cause we went for enemy bowsprits. Then merc vs merc worked, however sometimes required two hits. This was quite a long time ago, I guess things may have changed.

[Mr Pellew]

36 minutes ago, rediii said:

no they dont

Just tested it. Doesn't break even tho it is fully inside the other ocean.

[seanjo]

One thing it's taught me is I need a bigger screen, 19" monitors don't cut it anymore.

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

Thank you both for an interesting and informative video,  I am curious, the action was clearly fought in a confined area, a channel with shallows on two sides, at several points the disablement of the rudder could have seen one or other grounded, or the ship manoeuvred in such a way as to force grounding, was this a consideration at any point in the battle? While I agree trying to force a grounding carries a risk to both Captains it may have given one a distinct advantage. 

[vazco]

Just now, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

Thank you both for an interesting and informative video,  I am curious, the action was clearly fought in a confined area, a channel with shallows on two sides, at several points the disablement of the rudder could have seen one or other grounded, or the ship manoeuvred in such a way as to force grounding, was this a consideration at any point in the battle? While I agree trying to force a grounding carries a risk to both Captains it may have given one a distinct advantage. 

We never sail so close to land for this to matter. Land matters more in fleet engagements.

1 hour ago, seanjo said:

One thing it's taught me is I need a bigger screen, 19" monitors don't cut it anymore.

Large monitor creates much better experience and immersion. It doesn't change your results so much though. In my opinion it's mostly useful for demasting, since you see clearly where you missed. I fight on my alt on 19" monitor and I don't bother to switch.

[PG Monkey]

prince loses bowsprit to prince ask @z4ys

 

Edited May 20, 2018 by PG Monkey

[HachiRoku]

2 hours ago, vazco said:

In a few shallow PB's which I commanded before Niagara was broadly available we fought with and against full-merc fleets and we won those battles cause we went for enemy bowsprits. Then merc vs merc worked, however sometimes required two hits. This was quite a long time ago, I guess things may have changed.

I'm with kingy on this one. I have never seen equal ships rip masts off. I rarely take a bowsprit because of the cheap win but having dueled in trincs 3 years now I have to see it work before I believe it. 

[Havelock]

Just because its this way for the Trinco doesnt mean thats a basic rule. I can tell you 100% that RSH loses bowsprit to RSH, its different for every ship.

[William Death]

For shallow ships, actually, its the NavyBrig that has the invulnerable bowsprit. Mercury's is nothing special, several other shallow boats can knock it off. Now that Hercules has been introduced though, it may be able to snap a NavyBrig's bowsprit, I'm not sure. Prince loses a bowsprit to basic cutter LOL.

Regarding larger ships, Pavel's bowsprit is a toothpick and will fall off if you look at it the wrong way. Or ram a Constitution. I've used Victory to take the bowsprit of of Santisimas several times. Thinking back, I'm not sure if I've ever taken a L'Ocean's bowsprit with a Victory before. I think I have, but I'm not certain. I know I've lost a bowsprit on Victory before. Santisima can easily knock it off.

Interesting topic to think of. I usually try to avoid playing bumper boats with my own bowsprit though 

[Aster]

Fun fact the wappen is "Heavier" then a Bellona.

[vazco]

2 hours ago, Aster said:

Fun fact the wappen is "Heavier" then a Bellona.

Maybe it's enough that it's higher?

[Norfolk nChance]

@vazco

 

Liked the video a lot nice graphics, yes text and or voice over. Map as well with arrows and such.

Your thinking at certain points, what went right what went wrong. Maybe the Enemy’s input POST Battle. This would be a Gold mine of a series...

Do you know OBS Studio is FREE? You can fully edit the video with map inserts and text etc. Worth look.

 

  

N.

 

[Koltes]

@vazco

Good fight mate. I have to admit I do miss NA days and some crazy shit we did

 

On 5/20/2018 at 11:05 AM, vazco said:

( I know I could have done a few things better and more effective. Critique and comments are welcomed. )

 

Just some notes:
1. The entire fight consists of mini engagements (when you line up for a broadside) and disengagements (when you are protecting your weak or angling). Think of Messerschmitt Bf 109 air combat when they would drop down from the sky and engage while building up kinetic energy during the dive and then disengage using built up energy to go back to the high altitude where they cannot be reached again. Trinc does is brilliantly with its long hull and decent speed inertia. Your fight was more like a dogfight circling each other, which is a pretty hard thing to do in a Trinc and is really not utilizing his strength fully;

2. If you choose to sink him and work on one side then select the leeward side and try to maintain same overall course when you disengage. What this means is that a) you will do more damage to the crew as well as the armor; b) if he shows you his strong side (windward) then you give him leaks, either or he is in disadvantage;

3. When both of you moving in the same direction and you just gave him a broadside, then you tried to turn away to make a circle so you could unload again into the same side, its very easy for him to control the positioning. He just needs to sail brake and maintain on your six and stern camp you. With 4 bow cannons its not a very hard task to take out your rudder and therefore win positioning. Instead it might be a good idea to initially maintain about 100m distance when you move side by side and after you have fired a broad side circle into him instead. This way a) you are taking your weak side out of combat and b) give him a choice to either take another broadside into his weak or expose stern for raking. Either or is bad for him;

4. Manual sailing was off few times especially during the tack. Trinc is not a very maneuverable ship (unless it was completely revamped in the past year). I don't know if you got stuck in irons and game him an opportunity to board or your tried to break his bowsprit. If it was a duel with no-boarding agreement then all good, otherwise something to consider. I haven't sailed for a year and ships speeds I believe have changed a lot. Back in the day a perfectly executed tack on the trinc was around 8-9kn. Yours was 3.4kn when you faced the wind thats why it dropped so fast and you almost got stuck. Of course you have not built up enough speed when you decided to execute the tack, but this is also a thing to consider. I just want to point out that the Trinc does not like the bow tack like you did. Its when you flip your back yards just before your bow passes the wind (@10:36). This way you lose lots of kinetic momentum. Instead you should have flipped back yards @10:21. This way your entire turn would have happened lot faster and you would have retained more energy to pass you through the tack. You would probably still loose all the speed, but that would have happened when you were further on the other side, which means your acceleration would have been notably faster.

Anyways, its already a long text. Good fight regardless. Definitely a great example for a new player what they should be doing during the combat. Keep in mind that I haven't played for a year, but if NA is still "true" to the sailing combat which I hope it is, then the above should still apply.