Corona Lisa Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Whats the point of small ships then? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquillas Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 22 minutes ago, admin said: Angle importance changed. Its lower than before at close to perpendicular hits, and higher than before at close to parallel hits. So, the good practice to angulate your hull at long range is back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said: Whats the point of small ships then? Other than shallow water they have no point. What point do frigates have atm? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 8 minutes ago, Eleazar de Damas said: So, the good practice to angulate your hull at long range is back. You have to also watch heel. Here is an ugly demonstration 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesper Dahl Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, admin said: Only one thing has changed to a more consistent realistic implementation: At very close range at the Right angle any gun will penetrate your ship. This made more ships and more guns useful. As a result you cannot you cannot feel completely safe even if you are sailing a heavy vessel. So using your statement: combat became a little bit more enjoyable for majority of the players especially those who enjoy lighter vessels, IF they time their shots properly. But overall 3rd rates are still kings of the sea, first rates should prefer to sail with escorts, and players will just have to tune the tactics a bit. But it´s not realistic because there is no defence in close combat against smaller ships for example. Nor is it good gameplay. And these radical changes are only scaring players away. It´s a loss/loss. As someone said earlier, pick a model and stay with it. Edited March 22, 2018 by Jesper Dahl Wording Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z4ys Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: Other than shallow water they have no point. What point do frigates have atm? So for you everyone has to sail frigs because you like the trinc and for rediii everyone has to sail sols? Everyone has to play like you or for you? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z4ys Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Jesper Dahl said: But it´s not realistic because there is no defence in close combat against smaller ships for example. Nor is it good gameplay. A 2nd rate can sink a prince in almost one volley does a prince can sink a 2nd rate in one volley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trino Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 @admin can you give us the formula? Given pen at 90 degrees is 100%, how much pen has 100, 110, 120 degrees? Thx 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percival Merewether Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Jesper Dahl said: But it´s not realistic because there is no defence in close combat against smaller ships for example. Nor is it good gameplay. We really need something to simulate the damage done by musket fire from a SotL. Realistically a Prince would not be able to hide under the guns of an 80-gun ship, they'd simply kill the gun crew. I do not know if this applies to the Bucentaure - I mostly sail the Agamemnon. If I am up against smaller ships then I like to go upwind and start reversing, then switch to back fire mode. When reversing I can out-turn the small ships and they die within 3-4 broadsides (Assuming I have bad aim). It's very easy, but requires some creative thinking. EDIT: When all this is said, I absolutely love the new pen angles. Edited March 22, 2018 by Percival Merewether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesper Dahl Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, z4ys said: A 2nd rate can sink a prince in almost one volley does a prince can sink a 2nd rate in one volley? It can only do so at an absolutely perfect shot. In reality you can only hit the prince with a few hits at best. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, z4ys said: So for you everyone has to sail frigs because you like the trinc and for rediii everyone has to sail sols? Everyone has to play like you or for you? Thats besides the point first of all and if you knew me you would know I'm probably a better sol captain than I am frigate captain. Victory and bellonas are right up there with trinco for me. Tell me why sols are so popular in open sea but people prefer frigates only in fleet practice? Most people prefer frigates. I have no doubt about that. It all changed with the wasa meta and green zones. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NethrosDefectus Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 @admin Does the update planned for today contain any (if needed) hotfixes for patch 22 or is it an unrelated patch? I only ask because of the slightly extended downtime for today. I believe it is traditional at this stage to say......."Paints?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corona Lisa Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 26 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: What point do frigates have atm? Capping circles because you had some BR left and ganking traders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said: Capping circles because you had some BR left and ganking traders The game desperately needs a way to encourage people to sail frigates. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trino Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 BTW: in my opinion we had a problem with maximum tank builded/fitted 1st rates. Instead of only solve the problem and reduce thickness of 1st rates and/or remove stacking of thickness mods we got a new pen-angle-mechanik that inflicts all ships ... and it seems as this causes new balancing problems ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Silberbart Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 At this hole issue i cant see the problem. If a buc captain decides to sail a big immobile, but heavily guned and well armored ship: He get the advantages as well as the disadvantages. Where is the problem, when 3 little ships won against him. Let the smaller ships their advantages, otherwise everyone would sail SoLs and Devs could delete all ships without SoLs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesper Dahl Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Add swivel damage. Within 100m on the side a lower deck ship starts to take "dot damage" in relation to height difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Staying under the guns on the leeside has been used since NA exists. It is not new. Equation between tactics credibility must work both ways, if you resolve to pull "historical" deployment of whatever rates and compare RL tactics to game tactics, and not only when it suits or if it suits a single purpose. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesper Dahl Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Add realistic ramming damage as well. Small ships should capsize and sink vs big ships. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jesper Dahl said: Add realistic ramming damage as well. Small ships should capsize and sink vs big ships. Most ramming, and out of the blue a incident after the battle of them Nile where a corvette was boned by a 74 guns and sunk fast with great loss of life, was...an accident. The 74 was badly damaged as well and had to go for repairs in port and didn't see action until Napoleon was already out of Egypt. That's how ramming should work ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: The game desperately needs a way to encourage people to sail frigates. Didn't have time to do the patrol yesterday, but talked to baltic as he was doing it. A lot of big ships, aggy galore with bucs on top. Maybe it will shift naturally as people burn through their multi alt reedemable aggys? With BR limits I'm hoping less people get out alive even if they're running gank groups of big ships in patrols. If we're underestimating people's motivation to spend on big ships for patrol ganking there are still ways of further encouraging or forcing equal sides. If I take the starting player's perspective it would be truly great if he really can pick up a cheap shop frigate and get damage done in a patrol mission. Right now the entry fee is a little on the steep side, lets hope it's artificially high (redeemable aggys). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z4ys Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: Thats besides the point first of all and if you knew me you would know I'm probably a better sol captain than I am frigate captain. Victory and bellonas are right up there with trinco for me. Tell me why sols are so popular in open sea but people prefer frigates only in fleet practice? Most people prefer frigates. I have no doubt about that. It all changed with the wasa meta and green zones. My guess people think bigger is better but its actaully about the how to use it proper ;-) Its not about you or rediii or me its about that people think I play this way all other have to play my way so "I" can have the maximum amount of fun. 47 minutes ago, rediii said: ... I like reality in this one and combat effectiveness aswell as costs of a ship. In reality a small ship could get under the enemy cannons maybe but would it be worth it? You have the height difference of decks and way less crew than your enemy Raking, I doubt ships got sterncamped the way we do it in the game back then. ... The point is that more expensive ships should be more effective than less expensive ships. Only when enough less effective ships fight against a more expensive ship the less expensive ships should have a chance. Ans even then probably the more expensive ship should win because its able to kill enemys faster and lower their dps etc. faster. Thats how I see it from a theoretical standpoint. Calculated to BR this would mean a Buc with 450BR should have issues against 5 princes (400BR) I agree that the buc should have support on its side and not sail alone tho. As admin stated if ram would have fought the 3 princes in his buc the result would have differ. So you want to give everyone a "I win button" because he has a bigger ship that is worth more gold, mats or whatever? And the situation is actually more of an issue while its a lose against david while beeing goliat? Why i always see people asking for realism when it suits them but pls let it be unrealistic if not. BR only is a number showing what the ship is capable in AI hands. BR doesnt show the human factor. Or why do our elite players keep posting 5 vs 15 screens that they won outnumbered and with far less BR? Should they lose instant because they have less BR because that would be the conclusion of your post. But i doubt that this would suit you. Edited March 22, 2018 by z4ys 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassimoSud Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 23 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: The game desperately needs a way to encourage people to sail frigates. Why? I love my Bellonas :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trino Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 11 minutes ago, rediii said: this change didnt come because we had this problem. Admin wrote somewhere else that their plan was and is that all guns penetrate at close distance which is causing the weird "staying under the enemy cannons" thing. Maybe, maybe not, admin told this in "thickness. Meta is back"-thread ... I'm not per se against the new pen model ... I admit that i liked the old (two days ago) model because it seems to me it was more forgiving and slowed the battle ... better for low skilled players like me ... In my perception there was no complaining about the old model, now we got a new one ... ok ...no drama, we will adapt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, rediii said: Is that a reason not to work on it though? Things like this cause a lot of frustration. Peopls think it shouldnt be that easy to kill a big ship with a bunch of small ships and they are right You think it's easy? We should do our test and then discuss the results there is a chance I could sink to you 3 but even then it's 3 ships! Multiple reps would cause more issues that ship size. It would be an average of 4 min vs 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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