Reinforcement Zones PVP1/2

[Lord Gud]

1 minute ago, George Washington said:

Unless we can rewrite historical port locations then it could be fixed, other than that you can't make zones too small as there were towers and forts that protected the coast. Let's agree US coast is well protected from pirates go hunt other nations. 

You are suggesting to remove towers and forts and reduce zones? I see what you are trying to do here. Won't happen. 

I am suggesting they make reinforcement zone smaller as US is triple the length of others...I bet you are a US player too and enjoy having such a large safe zone compared to all the other nations.

[George Washington]

7 minutes ago, Lord Gud said:

I am suggesting they make reinforcement zone smaller as US is triple the length of others...I bet you are a US player too and enjoy having such a large safe zone compared to all the other nations.

I played for many nations including US and I know what you are trying to do and what impact it will cause. Go hunt other nations or hit distant US ports without overlapping zones. Home waters meant to protect new players. Devs even added 3 more nations for you to enjoy. 

What I hear is 'Dear US government please take down your towers, so we can gank your traders. Also your ports have awesome protection and you know we hate you, so please get rid of your defense and let us dictate the rules here'.

- Pirates

Edited November 17, 2017 by George Washington

[Pagan Pete]

3 hours ago, admin said:

all reinforcement zones are of the same size

 

Allow me to clarify. I meant that ALL the reinforcement zones are too large. I used the US coast as an example of how the overlap makes ships invulnerable.
Be there anything else wot needs clarification?

[George Washington]

Just now, Pagan Pete said:

Allow me to clarify. I meant that ALL the reinforcement zones are too large. I used the US coast as an example of how the overlap makes ships invulnerable.
Be there anything else wot needs clarification?

This is how small zones have to be in order to stop overlapping. Might as well get rid of them?

Admin said all zones are the same, you are asking to go through every zone and manually adjust them? Well good luck with that.

 

[Lord Gud]

1 minute ago, George Washington said:

This is how small zones have to be in order to stop overlapping. Might as well get rid of them?

Admin said all zones are the same, you are asking to go through every zone and manually adjust them? Well good luck with that.

 

I'm talking about how Mortimer/KPR/ETC not US. Removing a few reinforcement zones from certain US coast ports would balance it.

[George Washington]

7 minutes ago, Lord Gud said:

I'm talking about how Mortimer/KPR/ETC not US. Removing a few reinforcement zones from certain US coast ports would balance it.

I replied to the picture that you posted. Same story with Mortimer. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by George Washington

[Niels Terkildsen]

3 hours ago, George Washington said:

Might as well get rid of them?

Yes.

(But keep them for low rank players, like suggested earlier - those were the ones we got them for in the first place as far as I can remember).

[Barbancourt]

8 hours ago, Pagan Pete said:

Dear esteemed developers, (yes, lil Willy is helping my with my elocution)

It has come to my attention that the size of the reinforcement zones becomes problematic in areas where territorial capitols are too close together, (i.e.) the East Coast of the U.S.
The overlap of the reinforcement zones there makes hitting ships impossible except in two, narrow, corridors just north and just south of Charelston. US shipping on the remainder of the coast is utterly immune to attack.

Working as intended.  Hunt elsewhere. 

[Barbancourt]

7 hours ago, Otto Kohl said:

Reinforcement zones should protect players only to the certain rank or ship class. Sad to say, but as they are now - its total bullshit.

The reinforcement zones are not about protecting players - they're about protecting nations from being camped to death.  It doesn't matter what your rank is if 6 enemies are sitting outside port waiting to jump on you. 

 

[Pagan Pete]

5 hours ago, George Washington said:

 

... you are asking to go through every zone and manually adjust them? Well good luck with that.

 

Did I ask that? Nay, I did not.
You "fake news" people, always putting words in peoples mouthes 

[Hethwill]

Plotted by sailing between port spawn point and geographic reference points..

Some variation may slightly apply.

Thanks to @z4ysfor plotting the map.

( shroud cay is marked only because that's where the player is )

[Niels Terkildsen]

Damned... and I'm complaining about the zones in Danish and Swedish waters!

[Milkman van Swallows]

Reinforcements zones work, maybe a little too well in my opinion. We are on a PVP server and we should focus on that. Right now everytime I go to a capitol I see everyone just not giving a hello kitty about ppl who are looking to make some trouble (PVP) because they are protected and basically cannot be harmed unless you go with a full firstrate fleet. So as a pvp focussed player it is now up to my enemy to initiate combat, and that is simply wrong in my opinion, especially if said enemy is a vet.

So my proposal would be to reduce the size of the reinforcement zones AND make them only protect players up to a certain rank. What the new size should be and up to what rank a player should be protected can be discussed here in the comments.

Ill start by saying that I think we should only protect players up to and including demon(3rd highest) rank, devils and curse (two highest ranks) should not enjoy such protection. As for the size of the reinforcement zones, we should cut their distance from respective ports in half. Alternatively we could maybe change the composition of said reinforcement fleets so we can attack but protection would be something that a frigate actually can handle next to dealing with a player.

AND

Missions could maybe spawn a little closer to port and be less random, because lets face it, EVERYONE shuffles until they get a close one.

@admin @Ink @Hethwill

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Lord Bomgordel

[Liq]

Size is okay I think.. but up to flag captain rank, I agree. Let players try out a lineship without the fear of getting ganked on the maiden voyage.

[Hethwill]

Topics merged

[DrZoidberg]

this game dont need any reinforcement zones. New players should get a optional "Naval student" flag. With this flag they shouldnt be attacked or attack with battle ship on home waters. This flag should be only used till certain captain level (or ship level), like flag captain. That should support PVP much, and protect all low rank players (Polish, Russian, Prussian aswell). I suggested this system like 8-9 month ago, like i suggested the NPC capture system like 1.5 years before, what the game has today. It seems that developers dont hear players ideas... too bad :(.

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by DrZoidberg

[Slim McSauce]

I think @DrZoidberg makes a very good point. 

The problem I see with the game is that we have this nice big historical map of the Atlantic, and we have this nice PVP server that we're punished for using historical tactics like blockading the enemies capital. Its silly being restricted to only hunting in open waters and freeports when they have no military value, I get its a game but still.

Now I understand some people want PVE to be balanced with PVP and not be forced into PVP.  But we have a PVE server for that exact reason. You get the whoole map to yourselves to do PVE in with no compromise to PVP players. Why should the PVP server have to accommodate for PVE only players at its own detriment?

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Archaos]

The problem is not the size of the reinforcement zones, the problem is there is no need to risk going out of the zones if all you want to do is kill some AI to grind up slots, farm drops or make money.  

I do not agree that the solution is to not allow reinforcements after a certain rank, as that would mean a rear admiral in a trader could be ganked close to their capital, also what if the rear admiral was grouped with a lower player, would the lower player be able to summon reinforcements? It would all start becoming very complicated, you see a senior rank player in the reinforcement zone and attack him, but in the pull circle there are rookie players, what happens then?

The solution is that missions or AI ships in the reinforcement zones should not drop loot or give XP after a certain rank. That way people are welcome to do as many missions as they like and kill AI's to their hearts content but they gain nothing from it. I know sometimes I feel like beating up on some AI just for the fun of it or to test out a new setup on a new ship and I dont want to be jumped while doing that. I know people say there is a PvE server for that but people do not want to level up on 2 servers one for PvP and one for PvE playing. People are not just pure PvP'ers or PvE'ers, most are somewhere in-between and that is where you will find majority of players.

If you reduce the reinforcement zones too much they become worthless and all that does is drive players away. Forcing people out into the OW to face the risks is not the solution, same as PvP'ers do not like to be forced to PvE. Forcing people to do something they do not enjoy only drives them from the game.

Looking at the map someone kindly produced the reinforcement zones take up very little of the map, all you need to do is encourage people to leave those zones by making it more attractive to face the risk that remain in the zone.

The same applies to trading, you should not be able to make profits trading completely in the safe zone, profits should have to be made on decent length voyages outside safe zones. 

[Slim McSauce]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

The problem is not the size of the reinforcement zones, the problem is there is no need to risk going out of the zones if all you want to do is kill some AI to grind up slots, farm drops or make money.  

I do not agree that the solution is to not allow reinforcements after a certain rank, as that would mean a rear admiral in a trader could be ganked close to their capital, also what if the rear admiral was grouped with a lower player, would the lower player be able to summon reinforcements? It would all start becoming very complicated, you see a senior rank player in the reinforcement zone and attack him, but in the pull circle there are rookie players, what happens then?

The solution is that missions or AI ships in the reinforcement zones should not drop loot or give XP after a certain rank. That way people are welcome to do as many missions as they like and kill AI's to their hearts content but they gain nothing from it. I know sometimes I feel like beating up on some AI just for the fun of it or to test out a new setup on a new ship and I dont want to be jumped while doing that. I know people say there is a PvE server for that but people do not want to level up on 2 servers one for PvP and one for PvE playing. People are not just pure PvP'ers or PvE'ers, most are somewhere in-between and that is where you will find majority of players.

The utmost biggest issue I have with reinforcements zones at all are that we're taking what use to be PVP prime areas being turned into PVE only zones where everyone is safe from attack. This isn't good, the PVP scene heavily relies on being able to move freely around the map. If we can't do something as basic as blockade enemy ports, there's a problem.

Yes getting ganked at your capital will be a thing again( for flag captains and up), but so will bringing a fleet to a capital and having the defenders sally forth and meet you with their own fleet. Seriously, name any other objective in this game that brings PVP together that doesn't require ports? There is none, no one gets enthusiastic fighting for open sea. We're taking the best spots on the map to fight for and making them PVP-less, leaving rest of the players with the boring scraps.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Landsman]

On 17.11.2017 at 7:09 PM, Lord Gud said:

I bet you are a US player

He is a carebear... check his post history. One of those poor sobs who can't handle PvP but still decided it was a good idea to play on the PvP server.... if they can't play their PvE 99% safe, then they won't be happy and will always cry... Luckily Legends is getting closer to release... let the carebears rot in their missions with their mind numbing 24/7 PvE.

[Landsman]

On 17.11.2017 at 4:13 PM, admin said:

all reinforcement zones are of the same size

I think the zones need to be reduced a bit... the capitals should have a big one ( like it is now ) but the others should be much smaller. Also why are max rank players protected by the zone? I'm all for protecting new players to keep them in game but once you hit max rank on the PvP server you shouldn't get magical babysit protection. You could change it so PvE missions at the capital spawn right at the port in the safe zone but leaving the port area a max rank player shouldn't be safe... it's a bit ridiculous when we have a dedicated PvE server. Remember protecting PvE players is taking away content from PvP players and doesn't give PvE players enough incentive to get into / better at PvP. Reinforcement zones for new players / low ranks are great but why give them to veterans?? Might aswell let them start their PvE missions in port...

 

MRW a max rank player wants to be protected by reinforcement zones on the PvP server:

[Zoky]

7 hours ago, Lord Bomgordel said:

Reinforcements zones work, maybe a little too well in my opinion. We are on a PVP server and we should focus on that. Right now everytime I go to a capitol I see everyone just not giving a hello kitty about ppl who are looking to make some trouble (PVP) because they are protected and basically cannot be harmed unless you go with a full firstrate fleet. So as a pvp focussed player it is now up to my enemy to initiate combat, and that is simply wrong in my opinion, especially if said enemy is a vet.

So my proposal would be to reduce the size of the reinforcement zones AND make them only protect players up to a certain rank. What the new size should be and up to what rank a player should be protected can be discussed here in the comments.

Ill start by saying that I think we should only protect players up to and including demon(3rd highest) rank, devils and curse (two highest ranks) should not enjoy such protection. As for the size of the reinforcement zones, we should cut their distance from respective ports in half. Alternatively we could maybe change the composition of said reinforcement fleets so we can attack but protection would be something that a frigate actually can handle next to dealing with a player.

AND

Missions could maybe spawn a little closer to port and be less random, because lets face it, EVERYONE shuffles until they get a close one.

@admin @Ink @Hethwill

 

 

7 hours ago, Liq said:

Size is okay I think.. but up to flag captain rank, I agree. Let players try out a lineship without the fear of getting ganked on the maiden voyage.

I don't  like it. By the time you get 5th rate you should have acquired knowledge of basic skills and you should be familiar with square rig ships and their sailing capabilities. Besides we had green zone for testing new ship. If someone didn't know how to spawn mission inside it then that someone truly doesn't belong on PvP server. 

Alternatively we can have optional pvp flag on pve server and give certain people one way thicket there, and then get rid of the all bs training wheels for vet players on pvp server. 

#makePvPgreatAgain

Edited November 23, 2017 by Zoky

[Milkman van Swallows]

7 hours ago, Archaos said:

I do not agree that the solution is to not allow reinforcements after a certain rank, as that would mean a rear admiral in a trader could be ganked close to their capital, also what if the rear admiral was grouped with a lower player, would the lower player be able to summon reinforcements? It would all start becoming very complicated, you see a senior rank player in the reinforcement zone and attack him, but in the pull circle there are rookie players, what happens then?

The lower ranks shouldnt get pulled(flagging the ranks for this to happen is a gr8 idea, good point there). However if they are in a battle group they should, without reinforcements.

[Guest]

Yeah guys, don't ask for map indications, the game is made for playing and trying to guess what the range of the USS Voyager's transporter is for the 1st rates it beams into action.

[Milkman van Swallows]

This needs more attention, those zones are a pain in the ass on a daily basis for nearly everyone that does pvp.