Patch 10.4 Conquest changes, Battle Groups, Wapen von Hamburg (III)

[Koltes]

Just now, admin said:

they are not going to be the same

Old patch

• Fully rigged Victory could reach 15.35 - capped at 15 (total bonuses 42%)
• Fully rigged Constitution could reach 17.37 - capped at 15 (total bonuses 42%)

After upgrade rebalance

• Victory can reach 13.19 (total bonuses 22%)
• Constitution can reach 14.92 (total bonuses 22%)

The bonuses were too high. 

 

Now apply same numbers to Connie and Suprise and we will get 
Connie 14.92
Surprise 15.0 (cap is still there?) or 15.06 not much of a difference here. Pretty much the same speed.
Renommee (the ship that was asked to be return) - 16.7 with all possible upgrades but the cap is still making it 15? Same as Connie?
Or has the cap been removed?

[Captain Lust]

9 minutes ago, admin said:

they are not going to be the same

Old patch

• Fully rigged Victory could reach 15.35 - capped at 15 (total bonuses 42%)
• Fully rigged Constitution could reach 17.37 - capped at 15 (total bonuses 42%)

After upgrade rebalance

• Victory can reach 13.19 (total bonuses 22%)
• Constitution can reach 14.92 (total bonuses 22%)

The bonuses were too high. 

 

It is definitely better than before the hotfix. Not perfect yet but better... Some of the people whining here are just the ones that were hoarding speed mods. Could you please share the exact changes to wood type ( frame / planking ) modifiers, please? Also now that you nerfed speed mods, is there really a need for the speed limit / cap anymore? Just get rid of it, please.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Captain Lust

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 minutes ago, William Drayman said:

May we have a translation of "The exclusive content despite being a good idea is not received well by the players. Victory marks could converted from combat marks on all servers. Players of less competitive nations would be able to get access to victory marks using pve or pvp (but a bit slower)." into English?

I'm sorry, but that statement simply makes on sense to me.

It means I have the Heavy Rattler and Niagara BP's and 3 permits for both all ready.  I might get the Wappen and Ingerland BP soon but I can't stand the Wappen and the Ingerland only has perk of 32 pounders.

5 minutes ago, Otto Kohl said:

Please post the wood stats changes.

We really need this cause I can tell some ships seem to take a hit more than others that I own.

[Zoky]

6 minutes ago, Captain Lust said:

It is definitely better than before the hotfix. Not perfect yet but better... Some of the people whining here are just the ones that were hoarding speed mods. Could you please share the exact changes to wood type ( frame / planking ) modifiers, please? Also now that you nerfed speed mods, is there really a need for the speed limit / cap anymore? Just get rid of it, please.

Are you really that dense? They didn't change anything about coni being as fast as surp or reno! They just nerfed solo pvp into oblivion

[Luc]

24 minutes ago, koltes said:

thats not an issue. the issue was that all ships where the same. Now they are still the same, just slower.

Not true. There was a Problem about the sailing profiles. But your right about the speed cap - must gone. 

[Captain Lust]

4 minutes ago, Zoky said:

Are you really that dense? They didn't change anything about coni being as fast as surp or reno! They just nerfed solo pvp into oblivion

As i said i haven't tested it yet but yeah in theory the renomme should be faster than constitution now, due to base speed... Also i know you were running pirate frigate with every speedmod known so bias is showing... you weren't solo playing either but ganking with other warp drive pfrigs from your clan...

Edited July 21, 2017 by Captain Lust

[Luc]

12 minutes ago, Captain Lust said:

It is definitely better than before the hotfix. Not perfect yet but better... Some of the people whining here are just the ones that were hoarding speed mods. Could you please share the exact changes to wood type ( frame / planking ) modifiers, please? Also now that you nerfed speed mods, is there really a need for the speed limit / cap anymore? Just get rid of it, please.

 

[JCDC]

Am i the only one who has noticed that if victory marks can just be converted from Conquest marks that having them at all is entirely pointless?

i mean, if 1 victory mark = X combat marks, just give every player on the 'winning' nation x Combat marks for it, that way there is no need for this system of having 2 different types.

it makes no sense to have them at all if there is an exchange rate.

[JCDC]

Also, everyone needs to stop over-reacting to the speed de-buff. really, yes your ship will be slower, but so will the ones chasing you.

Now at least there will be more variety in open world PvP where its not just super fast or nothing. other builds will now be viable, bringing some variation to the game.

 

There are people saying 'you idiot devs you just gave into the whingers' who are now whinging at the devs hoping they will give in. get a grip guys, you are literally the problem. stop whinging about just your own narrow needs and think of the wider game.

[Demsity]

2 minutes ago, JCDC said:

Also, everyone needs to stop over-reacting to the speed de-buff. really, yes your ship will be slower, but so will the ones chasing you.

Now at least there will be more variety in open world PvP where its not just super fast or nothing. other builds will now be viable, bringing some variation to the game.

 

There are people saying 'you idiot devs you just gave into the whingers' who are now whinging at the devs hoping they will give in. get a grip guys, you are literally the problem. stop whinging about just your own narrow needs and think of the wider game.

Agreed.

People need to start understanding that this game is under development. The devs need to try different stuff in order to figure out what works and what does not.

[Captain Lust]

3 minutes ago, JCDC said:

There are people saying 'you idiot devs you just gave into the whingers' who are now whinging at the devs hoping they will give in. get a grip guys, you are literally the problem. stop whinging about just your own narrow needs and think of the wider game.

Praise the voice of reason...

[JCDC]

I mean, the cries of 'this patch has ruined PvP'....

 

no it hasnt, what they really mean is 'This patch has made the exact style of sailing i used to do less good. i will now not be able to prey on other players with impunity. Moving the balance in their direction is a reaosnable experiment but sod them, i want the game to be perfect for me and no one else matters.'

 

[JCDC]

2 minutes ago, Otto Kohl said:

Just remove bovenwind and gazelle because with that shitty speed bonus and 10% sail crew required they are totally useless.

or, (and this is right out there crazy thinking), just dont use them if you dont like them.  

plenty of people will still want the 6% speed boost that gazelle/BVW/Crooked gives. especially on top of light woods. and if you dont have them, and your enemy does, he will catch you.

the only difference is now that you dont HAVE to have them because they are no longer so powerful that there is no other sensible option.

Edited July 21, 2017 by JCDC

[Sir Texas Sir]

4 minutes ago, Otto Kohl said:

Just remove bovenwind and gazelle because with that shitty speed bonus and 10% sail crew required they are totally useless.

Did you see the 20/15% for Stay/Studding Sails.

[admin]

3 minutes ago, Captain Lust said:

It is definitely better than before the hotfix. Not perfect yet but better... Some of the people whining here are just the ones that were hoarding speed mods. Could you please share the exact changes to wood type ( frame / planking ) modifiers, please?

Fir/Fir was 12%  (7+5)
Now it is 10% (6+4)

Minor change was also done for Bermuda
bermuda bonus was 9% (5+4) and became 8% (5+3)

All negative speed bonuses were also reduced by 1 percent for heavy woods.

[Liq]

hmmm me thinks it would just have been better to remove bovenwind refit / crooked hull completely.. but gonna test it ingame.

[Captain Lust]

8 minutes ago, JCDC said:

no it hasnt, what they really mean is 'This patch has made the exact style of sailing i used to do less good. i will now not be able to prey on other players with impunity. Moving the balance in their direction is a reaosnable experiment but sod them, i want the game to be perfect for me and no one else matters.'

The burn on bovenwinds / crooked spammers so severe... it caused fire shock...

[JCDC]

1 minute ago, admin said:

Fir/Fir was 12%  (7+5)
Now it is 10% (6+4)

Minor change was also done for Bermuda
bermuda bonus was 9% (5+4) and became 8% (5+3)

All negative speed bonuses were also reduced by 1 percent for heavy woods.

Admin

i think the speed de-buff is a positive move. possibly its just overdone slightly. 5% to 1% in some cases i think. and also saling crew is very very large. you can end up with like 50% extra sailing crew for about 10% speed. which seems illogical. perhaps there is a better middle ground.

[admin]

44 minutes ago, koltes said:

Now apply same numbers to Connie and Suprise and we will get 
Connie 14.92
Surprise 15.0 (cap is still there?) or 15.06 not much of a difference here. Pretty much the same speed.
Renommee (the ship that was asked to be return) - 16.7 with all possible upgrades but the cap is still making it 15? Same as Connie?
Or has the cap been removed?

we wanted to bring some equality and variability to the OW by implementing the cap. Because if there is no cap then everyone will only sail the fastest ship. 

[Michael Corvinus]

Thanks for the Victory Mark change, this prevents a lot of people giving away ports to let the Spanish win and farm Victory Marks with their Spanish alts instead

 

[JCDC]

1 minute ago, Michael Corvinus said:

Thanks for the Victory Mark change, this prevents a lot of people giving away ports to let the Spanish win and farm Victory Marks with their Spanish alts instead

 

yeah the anti-alt rule is good. its a bit arbritary, and some people do have alts above that level, and some real people who deserve marks are below that level. but on balance its positive.

Shame that victory marks are just higher denomination Combat marks though. they are just 175 combat mark notes now. so, they are entirely pointless. everything should just be in one currency. having 2 adds nothing.

[Koltes]

8 minutes ago, admin said:

we wanted to bring some equality and variability to the OW by implementing the cap. Because if there is no cap then everyone will only sail the fastest ship. 

Well sorry but this does not agree with me a single bit. The cap equalizes large hitting ships and small agile ships. Now you are killing small agile ships by removing then ONLY advantage they had - speed. You in fact achieving the same issue. Now everyone will be sailing fastest heavy hitting ships that could get close to cap = Connies - 14.92kn. 
I cant get away from the Connie on Surprise any more. Because speed on other POS is so slow I cant get away fast enough not to get my sails shredded to pieces. I cant sail "fast" Renommee because she is hold at 15kn on par with Connie.

I will turn this question back to you. Please help me to decide.
What am I supposed to do as a solo hunter? What ship should I choose? A Connie like other server population? Do I have any other options?
Even the pirate frigate that supposed to be "the hunting" ship, has no chasers and no speed. 

If you want variability we need ships to fit a purpose. Chasers. Hunters. Heavy hitters etc etc People will bring what suits for the job

Edited July 21, 2017 by koltes

[Rouleur]

18 minutes ago, Zoky said:

Are you really that dense? They didn't change anything about coni being as fast as surp or reno! They just nerfed solo pvp into oblivion

How come - you still have cloaked warp speed to devour victims.

The relative sailing top speeds of many ships were too great. However, the nerf may need some rebalancing, some buffs for some mods, for example and I still don't see why a Copper Bottom is not craftable as it is part of a ship and had one of the greatest real world impacts!  Other areas for further balance include the crew adjustments which look too severe in some cases, although the logic is ok. Finally the impact of the speed cap on the sailing profiles, effectively widening the best points of sail profile where the cap is exceeded does not feel right although it's more difficult to see a solution without removing the hard cap on speed which in itself would need further balancing of the relative base speed of ships.

[Vernon Merrill]

I'll take a severe "magical bow figure" nerf over a 15-knot Bellona every damn day of the week...  Want fast ships? Down-size and use lighter wood. Like in real-life.  "Crooked Cedar"?!? GTFOH. 

[JCDC]

1 minute ago, koltes said:

Well sorry but this does not agree with me a single bit. The cap equalizes large hitting ships and small agile ships. Now you are killing small agile ships by removing then ONLY advantage they had - speed. You in fact achieving the same issue. Now everyone will be sailing fastest heavy hitting ships that could get close to cap = Connies - 14.92kn. 
I cant get away from the Connie on Surprise any more. Because speed on other POS is so slow I cant get away fast enough not to get my sails shredded to pieces. I cant sail "fast" Renommee because she is hold at 15kn on par with Connie.

I will turn this question back to you. Please help me to decide.
What am I supposed to do as a solo hunter? What ship should I choose? A Connie like other server population? Do I have any other options?
Even the pirate frigate that supposed to be "the hunting" ship, has no chasers and no speed. 

if you need help working out how to play the game, the forum admin isnt the one to go to.

Connies cant turn for shit. so, instead of trying to run from them which as you correctly claim isnt easy, just outturn them and kill them. 

its half the challenge of the game to adapt tactically. not a problem. this patch has in no way killed the light ships. the connie has always been almost as fast, the debuffs work almost equally.