Fellvred Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Are there any plans to reduce the size of ships available on the OW and shops? I know there are crafting updates etc to come but it just seems much too easy to get a 5th rate fleet together than it is to actually craft something Perhaps we could test 6th/7th rates (and traders) being the most common ship by far, with 4th and 5th rate ships being much much rarer - creating situations early in the server life where people would have to group up to take them on - increasing the importance of crafting. On the testbed there is pretty much no risk in capping another 5th rate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilgar Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, admin said: The problem with all rewards is this - as soon as you start giving them generously (good for individual players) it starts breaking the monetary system (bad for the game). If economy prices change on supply then Every individual player is happy ONLY until loot prices fall to 0 (because everyone gets a lot), but if the economy is fixed price then everyone makes a lot of money turning money into worthless item as a result. In this iteration of the economy you will get rich if you help other players. You can do it by a) trading b ) crafting items used by players c) crafting ships d) conquering ports (getting conquest marks) e) pvp ing and capturing player ships, refits, upgrades, guns and cargo We dont know why bot grinding should be extremely profitable. Because of reasons in the first paragraph. But it will get better once market for PVE marks trading and conversion becomes active.. Once they get value you will be able to sell them and make money on PVE. At least thats the experiment we are running. This is understandable and might be for the best. I would just not put too much emphasis on value of PVE marks. For instance furnishings require PVE marks, meaning crafting would require PVE marks. This does not sound right. Manufacturing, lab hrs and resources should be only prerequisites to crafting (aside from permissions for SoLs, which is probably a good idea). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Smith Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) More time sink = less players - simple like that. Edited April 23, 2017 by Bart Smith 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterChief Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) Maybe this game is planned/intended as hardcore solo/team game with longterm grinding and not as fast action game, there you can sail a SOL after 2weeks of casual daily 30min logins. Devs make there own game, which they want to develop, players can decide if they like it or not and to stay and play/enjoy the game they get,or go and look for another game, which fit better their timeframe and playstyle Edited April 23, 2017 by MasterChief 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fremen Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Intrepido said: Furnishing required PVE marks? what are you talking about? You get gold/silver/copper COINS for PVE marks. To do furnishings you need gold/silver INGOTS. I think was a bug not repaired yet. If you try to craft furnisings from ship building folder demand PVE Marks, but if you try to craft furnisings from woodworking folder, demand the usual gold and silver ingots. Edited April 23, 2017 by fremen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I agree. Even if it takes a lot longer to get something done, that doesn't mean you're supposed to get everything done in 1 go, aka in 1 day. New players most likely won't have the goal to obtain millions in their first few hours of gameplay, as some of us do. We know the game, know how everything works. Try to look at it from the eyes of a newb. When I first started this game, I had no clue of the age of sail whatsoever. I knew the basic geography and kind of had an idea of how the economic system was supposed to work. But when it came to game mechanics, how to actually shoot, sail, etc. properly, I had literally no idea. So my guess is, a new player will first slowly get into the game by running the first missions in his cutter, get the hang of battles, ask around what ship would be best to get next and work his way towards it and eventually might want to get into PvP. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AfkSailor Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Is it intended that combat orders cannot be taken out of free ports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreasyMnky Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 18 hours ago, admin said: 400,000 missions mattered on live. Now with ship of the line prices being planned to reach 10 million and above those quest rewards are peanuts (especially taking into account no safe travel - to make those 400,000 (including cost of goods) you have to sail and risk being a target. + I doubt those missions matter to rookies. We are talking about new player experience right? We are playing as rookies every day things that you propose to improve/increase are not satisfactory. Your proposals are just welfare - buy ships at higher price, drop more goods etc. We need something better and deeper and maybe more structured for a rookie specifically - more than just drop more resources from deconstruct. We have some ideas but would like to hear yours and from players like you (those who level up from zero on testbed) I have been trying the new player experience this patch, other that the cutter price beign higher than what you would expect prices seem ok concerning 7th and 6th rates. The basic cutter is a great starter ship to teach the basics and to get some starting funds or get back on your feet if you lost a ship you could not replace. Im ok with no gold reward for a ship capture, but i feel like some xp should be awarded. I can definitly see player interraction being profitable (if you are able to talk to others in nation chat) or putting contracts for the right stuff in the right places, assuming you can judge offer/demand. Mission trading atm are profitable as well and some dont require a lot of starting funds, ressources can also get aquired on ai traders for maximum profits. As a new player, I was able to take a mission where I spent the gold that I was considering investing on a 6th rate and its guns ended up paying for 3-4 brigs. It definitly can be a way to secure some funds early in the game. 13 hours ago, Sir Joseph Blaine said: Does that mean that players cant dump their cargo anymore? Cargo dumping was the main reason that trader capture is not profitable, unless you catch them afk and they cant drop it before you start the fight. Maybe a timer per weight could fix this if you want to destroy a cargo in open world? 1 second delay per 1 weight delay to destroy? Want to destroy 100 logs (250 weight total), 250 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilgar Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 3 hours ago, fremen said: I think was a bug not repaired yet. If you try to craft furnisings from ship building folder demand PVE Marks, but if you try to craft furnisings from woodworking folder, demand the usual gold and silver ingots. Yes, in list of mats for ship crafting, furnishings require PVE marks. Could be a bug indeed. If so, alarm off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 6 hours ago, admin said: Why should you get something if you lost? We stopped giving out participation trophies I get that, the fight I lost 1 vs 7 I did sink 4 of them with a 5th one about to sink when they got me. I did get my rewards for the ones I sink. I like that. Still my only complaint is no combat xp for captured ships. I'm cool with no credits (if the cargo gets raised from what it is now) and no marks, but we should stil get the same combat xp for a kill as any one else. If you didn't do enough damage to regist a kill or assist than don't pay out, but if I take the time to demast, decrew a ship and board and win I should get my combat xp just like the guy that just sunk it. Than the price should be the ship and it's cargo to make up for the credits and marks rewards. This is pretty much what many of us are asking for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Just now, Sir Texas Sir said: I get that, the fight I lost 1 vs 7 I did sink 4 of them with a 5th one about to sink when they got me. I did get my rewards for the ones I sink. I like that. Still my only complaint is no combat xp for captured ships. I'm cool with no credits (if the cargo gets raised from what it is now) and no marks, but we should stil get the same combat xp for a kill as any one else. If you didn't do enough damage to regist a kill or assist than don't pay out, but if I take the time to demast, decrew a ship and board and win I should get my combat xp just like the guy that just sunk it. Than the price should be the ship and it's cargo to make up for the credits and marks rewards. This is pretty much what many of us are asking for. Just note to add. Ships crafted from players will be top grade construction. It is a damn good prize that can be used and sold by a hefty sum. Normal AI ships from the OW will always be the "rotten" wood. Fleet ships from players will be whatever they are. Can be a handsome crafted model as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaimundoJoe Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 6 hours ago, admin said: Why should you get something if you lost? We stopped giving out participation trophies Then why do we had to pay full price for an incomplete game? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Intrepido said: Furnishing required PVE marks? what are you talking about? You get gold/silver/copper COINS for PVE marks. To do furnishings you need gold/silver INGOTS. In Pirates Den we get Furnishings instead. 15 minutes ago, The Red Duke said: Just note to add. Ships crafted from players will be top grade construction. It is a damn good prize that can be used and sold by a hefty sum. Normal AI ships from the OW will always be the "rotten" wood. Fleet ships from players will be whatever they are. Can be a handsome crafted model as well. And that is why I don't have the problem of not getting gold or marks for a captured ship, but we should still get our combat xp for the fight for a kill. Once ships get crafting and folks actually unlock stuff you might get a really good price that makes up for the credit/mark part of rewards. AI though shouldn't be carring 120 lbs of stuff when they have a full empty hull. I don't even wnat them to be rich trade goods. Load those bastard up with resource items and mats so you actually get something worth a dame and it doeesn't have to be a full load, just put it more reasonable and not just a few 100 (most I seen is 141 Food Supplies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Testbed can be odd but taking from breakdowns on maritime prizes taken during the period the AI isn't that far off. Best cargo prizes being sold at auction at 100k/200k dollars before expenses ( being the exception rather than the rule ), the grand average being at 20k before expenses. Pretty sure AI is not modeled as a substitute of proper PvP raiding. AI is no challenge after a while. While we could have a XP token for boarding action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, The Red Duke said: Testbed can be odd but taking from breakdowns on maritime prizes taken during the period the AI isn't that far off. Best cargo prizes being sold at auction at 100k/200k dollars before expenses ( being the exception rather than the rule ), the grand average being at 20k before expenses. Pretty sure AI is not modeled as a substitute of proper PvP raiding. AI is no challenge after a while. While we could have a XP token for boarding action. I have not seen cargo that fetched me more than say 30-40K so not sure where your seeing this 100/200K cargo at, maybe RNG just hates me. Though the 10-20K would be more of the average price you get from the cargo I'm seeing. No PvE AI ships shouldn't replace raiding, but right now with 90 players on there is no PvP Raiding. Unless I want to sail half way across the map to find a Player around there capital area and than I can only work out of a freeport until I run out of repiars or my ship gets sunk. With so small odds I would prefer to do other things with my time right now. I'm going to bet this will be the same mentality most folks have and many folks do enjoy only the PvE grind in game. I do it on the side between big fights to kill time, so why can't i be profitable and we aren't saying get rich off my investment? By time I pay for repairs and crew though that little 10-20K cargo is more like 1-5K profit. Not even worth it and to boot I didn't get any combat xp from the captured trader/ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Smith Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 The test-bed Post battle screen results is omitting ships, xp, rewards, marks and crew. I have found that after the battle ships are missing taking crew, xp and rewards with them. The battle was completely finished with an end mission tab so I don't I am doing anything wrong. Any ideas on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remus Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 7 hours ago, admin said: The problem with all rewards is this - as soon as you start giving them generously (good for individual players) it starts breaking the monetary system (bad for the game). If economy prices change on supply then Every individual player is happy ONLY until loot prices fall to 0 (because everyone gets a lot), but if the economy is fixed price then everyone makes a lot of money turning money into worthless item as a result. In this iteration of the economy you will get rich if you help other players. You can do it by a) trading b ) crafting items used by players c) crafting ships d) conquering ports (getting conquest marks) e) pvp ing and capturing player ships, refits, upgrades, guns and cargo We dont know why bot grinding should be extremely profitable. Because of reasons in the first paragraph. But it will get better once market for PVE marks trading and conversion becomes active.. Once they get value you will be able to sell them and make money on PVE. Rich players will buy them from you to save time and you will make a lot of money based on the demand. Perhaps there should be a point f) being in the OW should be rewarded better than it is now as you are a target then for someone else. At least thats the experiment we are running. You appar to be talking about two different concepts here. 'Breaking the monetary system' surely refers to gold coming into or leaving the economy whereas (a) to (e) are ways for individual players to acquire wealth. (b) and (c) are actually money sinks in terms of the wider economy and (d) and (e) appear to be redistribution of wealth with no net effect on the economy as a whole (though I dare say there are gold rewards as well). Since (e) includes ganking noobs, some - quite possibly a lot = of the redistribution of wealth will be from the presumed 'have-nots' to the presumed 'haves', which again begs the question of what the 'have-nots' will do. This leaves (a) trading. Is this honestly the intention, that trading is the main source of gold entering the game? Selling marks (PvE, PvP and Conquest) as a personal income generator only works if: players actually want the things marks can buy (which from other posts it sounds as if they do - certainly PvP and PvE) players have gold to buy the marks How do the buyers get the gold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, Intrepido said: I have captured about 8 traders. The best and only gives me 21k. The rest of them, around 4k. That sounds about what I'm getting and every one of them I could carry the cargo on my warship so don't even need a trader to take the cargo cause it's so small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I've noticed very repetitive AI fleets. I Just killed the 4th GB Endymion/Cerebus AI fleet since yesterday around Jeremie . The other day is was multiple Rattlesnake/Snow fleets around Dominica. Kill one, another appears, over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 20 minutes ago, Borch said: Thats why i said "at least" moderate :D. 16 hemp is good like you said for a cigarette but is this a lefty cigarette or a normal one? Cause if it's a lefty than might make things ok for a short time...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 12 hours ago, admin said: Perhaps there should be a point f) being in the OW should be rewarded better than it is now as you are a target then for someone else. Absolutely! Solo and PvE players have no way to make money except doing missions, and don't create targets for anyone. And you can't make money trading unless you build up significant capital by... doing missions. Even to participate in conquest you need to suffer through a wall of newby crap by doing missions. Your comment about making money via crafting is downright cruel. No new player will be good enough at PvP to raise money for a shipyard until he ragequits twice. McDonald's cashiers don't make enough to start their own hamburger factory. When I ask for more goods creating by breaking up, I am only asking for subsistence-level rewards. Enough so that each prize can create a hull repair or two. I think you should rework the missions with inspiration from historical buccaneering voyages. We need some missions that take us halfway across the Caribbean to hunt on the OW, with much higher rewards.* This will prevent people from grinding them because they take so long. On the way, you will PvP and take other prizes. Then the short-distance missions can be limited to 3 per day. *"Proceed from Port Royal and patrol between Isla Mugeres and Isla de Pinas. Search for the convoy and cut out as many ships as possible." When the player approaches the mission area, a target fleet is spawned somewhere in the area. Imagine attacking a swarm of trader's snows with one powerful escort ship and trying to capture one. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pad Seayew Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Love this idea ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 I like this too, but forgot to add..>>XP FOR CAPTURE SHIPS<<.....yah I'm going to keep repeating this. I should get the same reward for my xp as some one that sank a ship for the kill as a capture. Don't care about the gold or marks as the ship is my reward for those part, but you should get xp no matter how you kill some one since it's all based off Kills and Assist right? 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spud Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 My feels so far. Prety much fine with everything, we all start with about the same chances and face the same obstacles. I guess cannon production prices will be OK as compared to NPC ones, so either crafting them or capturing them might make it managable to keep your ships equiped. I hope I don't have to be swapping over guns between ships. The only thing that might be breaking the game is when people find a loophole to make millions in a couple of days. As I imagine capitals will be the main trading ports again, people having a ton of gold can just overpay for stuff and lock regular players out of certain vital resources. It probably can't be avoided, but its a bit demotivating if you need a bread and someone is buying all the bread in your town for 10 times the normal price, just cause he's sitting on a ton of gold. Good for the one guy selling bread, but not for the rest of the town. Do feel that PvP wise, with ships being one dura and the price of cannons etc. people might be too carefull with their ships. And boarding might be the go to mechanic for any PvP battle. That might both be very realistic, ships being valuable and capping being more done then sinking. But I wonder if it will result in more fun. As a final, I haven't been experimenting with this allot, but with the structure, I take a side down and it doesnt sink, it feels like I also need to completely take the structure down to sink it (it almost insta sinks every time). Has anyone tried (or found out) at what point the structure needs to be, to be taking on water and sinking (even if its slowly). Like halfway? Or like 1/4 left? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlteSocken Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 23 hours ago, admin said: Why should you get something if you lost? We stopped giving out participation trophies Well I think even a lost fight should provide XP after all. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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