[PvP2 US] Political Situation's and Port Battles reports

[van der Clam]

6 hours ago, Farrago said:

Hmm... well, I guess there seems to be some things you don't know. I believe there were several in this evening's PB. I am out of the country but was watching it via Jobaset's stream as he used his alt. He had trouble remembering the names of all the other pirates' alts.

Hey, if one wants to use alts to game the economy, crafting, political, and combat systems of Naval Action, there's nothing I can do about it. It's not against the rules. I just don't understand the motivation. I guess I would rather be a winner or a loser than manipulate things so that I can just call myself a winner. I knew some were doing it -- from all nations -- but am only now beginning to realize how widespread it is. Like I said, I was naive. I'm reminded of when my son was little playing his gameboy and he asked for help getting "cheats" so he could have unlimited lives, unlimited ammo, etc. What's the point? It ceases to be a game or competition and becomes a repetitive exercise. Not fun. I guess I will have to decide whether to quit, join in, or just accept that there won't be an even playing field. Too often PVP is not "Player vs Player". It is "Player vs Player-and-his-gold-mods-(hopefully-not-duped)-on-a-gold-ship-captured-or-awarded-or-built-using-alts-circumventing-the-system".

You want me to come out and PVP with you. It may happen but the challenge for some of us is we're not using work-arounds to obtain wealth or ships or skills faster than the game actually allows one player from one nation to do it. I don't have an alt bringing me resources from ports that don't belong to my nation (or to my allies). I don't use alts to attack a single nation in port battles several times in one day thereby increasing the combat power arrayed against a nation more than player numbers really would. In my opinion, multiple personality disorder shouldn't be a what we used to call, a force multiplier. Oh well. Facing 25 enemies, or 20, or 15, or 10 when you are just a few is a lot bigger deal when you only have 2 or 3 gold ships, only one of which is bigger than a 4th rate, you've been through 15 or so officer lives, etc. I'm not looking for sympathy but just hope the more reasonable among you will realize that some folks are trying to play this game as designed, not just as you can get away with. That means our lives and our ships are less expendable. My five production buildings, and the five that belong to each of my clan mates are not quite up to the task of replacing ships lost with a few daily sinkings at the hands of you as a Pirate, you as an Alt, and a few other times at the hands of enemy nations as well. You scoff when badly out-numbered Dutch escape rather than dying in place. Perhaps for some of us, dying in place has far more severe ramifications than it does to you.

This ^ finally makes me understand why our national alliances are troubled and why the rat, dane, french, swede alliance works so easily. And it explains why the rats think it should be so damn easy for us nationals to make our alliances work. What rats fail to accept is that we nationals, for the vast majority part, are dealing with actual different people, while the rats are dealing with their split personality alts. Now, adding that the majority of the rats have the same national alts as their buddies, it makes it even easier for them. Sadly, it is not that easy for us, because we deal with different people, not a split personality. Plus, I know of only 1 Dutch and 1 US player who dualboxes. So that doesn't make for any notable help during double port battles, nor for screenings, nor not as easy for crafting, etc. Oh well. Some people will use every "near"-exploit to gain every advantage just to win, rather than simply play a game. That's the difference between hardcore gamers and we casual nationals. Personally, I play for the fun, when it ceases to be fun, I play something else, or at least a different server to get away from those hardcore who like to run an manipulate servers to their will.

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

5 hours ago, koltes said:

So the question remains the same... who is the leader?  
Don't you think that you have way too many generals?

People step forward. We make a target region and go for it. If allies need help we try our best to go there and help. In a port battle only one takes command. I am only speaking for the Dutch on this. 

[OneEyedSnake]

9 hours ago, ElricTheTwo said:

 

Really, maybe if you took time to look at player names in battles...  you could see how many of each nation there really are playing.  Plus, just look at the politics voting grid - GB & USA each have 25+ players who take the time to vote - and that is just those who bother to vote.  So they have PLENTY of players.

they have real jobs and cant be bothered at most times our PBs are at. You know that. Further more i know for a fact several of them are dads, and even a couple moms, and so they obviously couldnt care less about this game. Real life is a thing here, you have to remember that. I havent been on nearly as much either simply because my classes had to be moved around to accommodate my internship with lockheed. I probably wont even be on at all given a couple months other than to help with voting because alts and stupid people that buy into pirate lies will ruin it for everyone. Hey elric, the pirates have 3 silver sources, they have had 2 for quite some time, why dont you have lucie like they promised you yet? 

[Farrago]

6 hours ago, koltes said:

Well in short it was like this.
[snip]

Here filled you in under 5 mins

@koltes thank you for taking the time to clearly explain your side and interpretation of events. Undoubtedly I would get a different interpretation from players from other nations... probably as many different stories as those who bother to tell it. What I would encourage EVERYONE to do is move on. Both sides distrust the other and both sides feel like they have been wronged. (I know from reading some of your previous posts that you also tend to post with a clear head, reasonable opinions, and advocate moving forward beyond past grievances -- thank you.)

At this point, I'm not sure what the Pirates want from the Dutch. I don't think you Pirates are as unified in strategy and long-term goals as you are when you are in combat. Some of you claim to just want PVP. Well, there's probably less than 10 of us Dutch in all time zones and of all ranks active right now so you're not going to get much as we run out of ships and officer lives. Being so small, there is really only a couple of ways we can initiate PVP: we can all agree to stage it and meet up in OW or we start grinding in an area you care about hoping you come out. However, many of our most experienced players believe your real goal is to wipe us off the map. They believe you're basically a bunch of bullies. That opinion seems to be confirmed if we happen to oppose you in what you deem as your sacred territories such as Castries. When our couple of biggest smack talkers start up in the forums, it seems to also piss off a faction of Pirates enough that they go for the jugular. So, perhaps you can understand the mixed message we're getting. If we come and fight you or other nations that are in our strategic area, we get rolled back to the state of being a noncombat effective nation. If we don't come and fight you, we're called carebears and you attack and take all our ports hoping that it will spur us to fight (and die).

Let me sum this up from MY perspective playing Dutch for a couple of months... we have some skill and resources and players enough to wage low intensity conflict in our area. We do not have enough of any of those things to wage all out war. With anyone.

I can hear the response to the above: "Your alliance sucks if it doesn't give you enough strength." Yep, perhaps it does. But if you want to encourage PVP and help server health, destroying a nation will not get them out of an alliance. It just makes them cuddle up to it even more because there is nowhere else to go.

In fact, I don't think any nation or alliance on PVP2 currently has the manpower to wage all out war for very long. So, history on the servers will just continue to repeat itself. One side will start rolling because they have the manpower and organization. They will be successful for a time until there are no more lands to conquer -- Alexander wept -- and then the conquerers get bored and the conquered claw their way back perhaps eventually reversing course and the roles switch (if the game survives).

So here is the dilemma WE ALL FACE in this game as it is now structured. It is a game of conquest and war. We know from real life history that war is not very effective if it is fought just to hold the 38th parallel, pacify a population, establish a new government, etc. War is total, or it isn't very effective. Militaries are made to be used. If you build them, they tend to get used. And all we have to do in this game is war and build militaries. In many games, ultimate victory is defined. There is an objective. In Game Labs own Ultimate General Civil War, it is clear that you either play as the Union or CSA and your goal is to win the war by destroying the enemy army and its ability to fight. Afterwards, if you win or lose, you can reset your variables and do it again trying different tactics. In Naval Action, there is no end game so we are destined to continue the same pattern. One side dominates until they get bored, other side crawls back, dominates, then they get bored. But we have the added challenge that players who get bored or frustrated can fairly easily switch to the other side or just give up the game. I don't have a solution to this problem. Game Labs, give us an End Game!

Quote

Dutch declared the war on Pirates. Your choice Dutch, not ours. We are at war because you declared it on us!

I cringed when I read that declaration of war (was it OneEyed?) because I knew he was writing a check that we did not have the bodies to cash.

Quote

So the question remains the same... who is the leader?  
Don't you think that you have way too many generals?

Who is the leader? I don't know. I can tell you who is the most vocal but then probably so can you. LOL

I haven't played enough with the alliance partners to know if they have too many generals, but my observation of the Dutch is we don't have ENOUGH generals. We do have a lot of clans considering our small player base, but clans for us really are just logistic entities providing more storage for goods. I honestly don't know who is in what clan and rarely notice that we have different clan tags. Is this organization a mistake on our part? Perhaps. I can see the advantage in communication if we were all in the same clan.

[OneEyedSnake]

4 minutes ago, Farrago said:

I cringed when I read that declaration of war (was it OneEyed?) because I knew he was writing a check that we did not have the bodies to cash.

To be fair, they already had ground up puerto de espana to 50 something when i did that and had already been told by JPPSX and that helium voiced boy,  cant remember his name, only his voice, sorry, telling me they were going to wipe us before we declared war on the pirates. Not so much a check we couldnt cash, rather a well hello kitty it lets dive on in. 

[Farrago]

On 3/11/2017 at 8:46 PM, Sir Texas Sir said:

Are you can figure out it's freaking Saturday morning for them when that port battle was going on.  That is the only reason they show up in force on US prime time port battles that are set on there weekends.  I bet you there was a bunch more. I know one of our pirates in a Cerberus had a bunch of them tied up at the free port and they wouldn't come out.  Over a freaking low level guy in a Cerberus lol

Was that the "low level guy" at Hat Island in the Cerberus who had at least one, perhaps more, AI fleet Cerberus who was fighting partnered with "Wish List" who was in a -Buc- Ingermanland, who is actually "Jobaset" who is one of if not the most dangerous PVPers active right now? You know, when the two of them staked out Hat Island to get the first rates coming out? I would think perhaps it would have been British desire to not get involved in a deadly screening battle as they tried to head to the Saint John's port battle rather than fear.

21 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

You need to look again.   Though I can see the  confusion, remember who ever the side your fighting for in a battle is the side you will have the flag of.  So all Dane/Swede/French/Spain in that Swede battle will have a Swede flag.  Every US/Brit/Dutch would have the Brit flag since they are the attackers.

I stand corrected. Pirates were not using Swedish Alts. It appears they were using Danish alts. In fact, it appears to me that at least 6 of the "Danes" in the St John's port battle were actually Pirates from BLACK. Compare the list of "Danish" participants above with the list below. (Perhaps it is common knowledge that the clan SORT is actually BLACK in Dane uniforms???) But then, you knew that. I think I heard that you're "Erik Ethelwulf", right? It does become clear why you and other Pirates have voiced eternal loyalty to the Danes. LOL

Too bad. If you removed the 6 Pirates from SORT from this Saint John's battle, then the remaining Danes would have only outnumbered the Brits by a couple. I guess you didn't think of that because I know you are so proud of your prowess fighting short-handed and you only use these ALTS to even the playing field for smaller nations. It was perhaps, an oversight that in this instance you used these ALTS to overwhelmingly outnumber your opponents.

Quote

Think of it this way.  Why should 50 players beat 25 guys playing 2 chars each.  It's still 50 on both sides, but shouldn't the guys that don't have to run two chars and be distracted by both do better than the one guy trying to run two chars at the same time?  I would say the 50 guys playing the one char should do more than the 25 running two.

Your point only makes sense when it comes to a specific battle instance. Obviously 2 people can be more effective than 1 person trying to juggle two boats but in all other ways the advantage goes to the player with twice the resources, twice the production buildings, more opportunities for port battles, port ownership, etc.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Farrago
corrected the type of ship Jobaset was sailing in his Hat Island battle

[Sir Texas Sir]

Little Harbor Shallow water Port Battle - 25 US/Brits vs 25 Pirates

Good turn out and fight on both sides.  Good job TFT8 for grinding it up and your first port battle.  We will be there to support you next time in the shallows.

Just wanted to add that both sides have over 25 players so there is no issues getting full port battles.  It's just if they care or will show up to them.   Also the server was up to 170 something during the port battles.   

 

Edited March 13, 2017 by Sir Texas Sir

[Teutonic]

Pinar Del Rio Battle

14 Spanish/French/Swedes vs 7 US

Outcome: Spanish successfully take the region

There was an incredibly dense storm outside which made it extremely hard to enter the port but overall we we able to trickle in. With a ton of maneuvering we were eventually able to force the US to make a move that brought them to a disadvantage and split up there forces between us. The US made a call and retreated, we caught one of them and chased the last 2 until the points were achieved.

The Spanish Caribbean fleet made its debut in gracious fashion and hope to further achieve greatness, we are requesting assistance from the homelands for further advancement, for King and Queen!

[Koltes]

11 minutes ago, Farrago said:

@koltes thank you for taking the time to clearly explain your side and interpretation of events. Undoubtedly I would get a different interpretation from players from other nations... probably as many different stories as those who bother to tell it. What I would encourage EVERYONE to do is move on. Both sides distrust the other and both sides feel like they have been wronged. (I know from reading some of your previous posts that you also tend to post with a clear head, reasonable opinions, and advocate moving forward beyond past grievances -- thank you.)
Thank you too for being reasonable! A very rare quality on this forums indeed
 

At this point, I'm not sure what the Pirates want from the Dutch. I don't think you Pirates are as unified in strategy and long-term goals as you are when you are in combat.
This is quite accurate. We decide mostly by hearing out people in a sort of like Chinese parliament. Once we made the decision as the clan, the officers taking the lead and organisation. What we want from Dutch? We returned Orinoko that we gave for things we never received. We came to fight because the war on us was declared. If it wouldn't been because of that there was very high chance that we would have turned on GB instead. Because war was declared we hoped to get fights (you don't declare war if you dont have numbers to fight, right? Well I think that's what sensible people think lol).
What we want today? We want fights is Dutch still have any will/ability/ships left to fight us. If not, then they need to man up and admit the loss.


Some of you claim to just want PVP. Well, there's probably less than 10 of us Dutch in all time zones and of all ranks active right now so you're not going to get much as we run out of ships and officer lives. Being so small, there is really only a couple of ways we can initiate PVP: we can all agree to stage it and meet up in OW or we start grinding in an area you care about hoping you come out.
All this arranged stuff is artificial and only works when everyone follows same principal. Take PVP Event for example. Kudos to Dutch for starting fair fights trend. We have supported it. I even made a post about it. But soon after there we ganks again. Some things are better left to be opportunistic like OW.
The ONLY thing that can be more or less even is PB. All you need for that is to bring enough people and bring decent ships. You know for a fact that other side can't bring more than 25, so that is the line. If you can't bring 25 with just your nation, you need to talk to allies and pressure them to support you. You alliance also need to provide you with means to fight. In Pirate nation we make ships for each other mostly free of charge or for return of mats used especially the notes and compass. You need to walk away from commercial mindset. Today we operate by war rules. If you dont have enough ships, talk to GB and US. They have plenty. They have lots of resources too. You guys just need to be more pro-active if you want to show any competition.
I understand that this is not easy while you have your most vocal guys as Snake who is just plain simple poisonous. He starts wars and walks away from his nation. Same as Decken. This guys talk a lot of crap and doing that on behalf of their nation almost making sure that no peaceful solution could be reached.
Think about what I just said, mate. If you can't talk to your allies and they do nothing for you, maybe its time you finally come clean and admit few things and start the dialog where there will be place for Dutch in the SFPD Alliance? Just sayin

 

However, many of our most experienced players believe your real goal is to wipe us off the map.
By most experienced you mean most butt hurt by us pirates? Those who had been kicked by pirates while they were Brit players? Those who left GB to enter new nation but brought to that new nation all their old grudges that basically made Dutch small version of GB?  
As to our goals... You seem to be a reasonable person. You lack of sailing skills is over and above compensated with your common sense. You understand that we can win every single battle and Dutch have no way to stop us right? The Dutch Oven started on the 17th February, almost a month ago. We got your 3 Eastern ports in a matter of 3 days. Ask yourself why did we stop if taking you to one port was our goal? Doesn't seem to be any logical whatsoever. 


They believe you're basically a bunch of bullies.
If we were bullies then we would really driven you down to one port and perma camp your capital for all this time. We didn't. And we actually never done that in the past. We got GB down to one port, but were letting everyone through who did not support CKA. The blockade was there for a week only. I personally paid out 90% of newbs I've sunk and paid them 100 times than they lost. None of them are holding grudges. Some are still good friends. Hardly deeds of a bully.
I think you are mistaken us for US. They have camped Mort for months and where hunting our newbs like rabbits.
We could not even do missions without being ganked. This is when we decided we will level up doing PVP (fortunately ex was good). Most of us levelled to Curse by doing strictly PVP. Do you think that guys who mostly PVE would have any chance against players like that? They made us what we are today, but its not their credit to claim.


That opinion seems to be confirmed if we happen to oppose you in what you deem as your sacred territories such as Castries.
We told Snake on TS specifically that if you will attack Castries we will retaliate with full force. We did tell him that and asked him to pass the message across to all Dutch.
They knew what they were up to. They still made the decision. They are crying now because we retaliated as we suggested we will? Sounds kind childish to me... No, I'm sure of it! It sounds like total crap


When our couple of biggest smack talkers start up in the forums, it seems to also piss off a faction of Pirates enough that they go for the jugular. So, perhaps you can understand the mixed message we're getting. If we come and fight you or other nations that are in our strategic area, we get rolled back to the state of being a noncombat effective nation. If we don't come and fight you, we're called carebears and you attack and take all our ports hoping that it will spur us to fight (and die).
Let me sum this up from MY perspective playing Dutch for a couple of months... we have some skill and resources and players enough to wage low intensity conflict in our area. We do not have enough of any of those things to wage all out war. With anyone.
Let me sum this up MY WAY, the way I would look at it if I would be in the Dutch nation. The first thing is to ask yourself the right questions. Again grudges aside, but I would have to take into account that there is no dialog between Dutch and Pirates.

Q. Are we at war with BLACK?
A. Yes
--
Q. Can Dutch fight BLACK?
A. No, not in the current state.

--
Q. Can we fight BLACK with allies on our side?
A. Its a possibility
--
Q. We supported our allies by staring this war to take heat off GB and attacked Castries to take heat of US. Can we get our allies to fight with us now and support OUR struggle against pirates?
A. Yes/No
--
If answered YES, then we need to start talking to our allies and pressure them to support us now.
If answered NO, then we need to decide to struggle alone and lose everything or start talking to our enemy and see if we could sort things out somehow.

This would have been my personal approach.

 

I can hear the response to the above: "Your alliance sucks if it doesn't give you enough strength." Yep, perhaps it does. But if you want to encourage PVP and help server health, destroying a nation will not get them out of an alliance. It just makes them cuddle up to it even more because there is nowhere else to go.
Oh there are plenty of options, but they all means admitting that you lost and that Dutch made a mistake not going with small nations alliance, but joining GB/US and reinforcing what was already the biggest... well at the time. This also means that you have to get up first and start conversation with people you were openly cursing on global. If even bedbenny and Taurus apologised to Danes for their stupid remarks and now live in peace I'm sure you will be able to find common language even easier.
But that means admitting your mistakes, which is not everyone is capable of doing.
The problem is you all want everything and your way and things happen FOR YOUR without actually making any sacrifices or standing up and accepting the facts and submit your loss. This will give your nation so much more respect than the smack talk we have seen to date.

Again I try to be in your shoes I would do one of the twos.
1. Either admit that we lost and make contacts and work things out diplomatically for my nation or;
2. Never surrender and continue to fight outnumbered, but still show up and find ways to retaliate, gank pirates, help allies etc and actually stop complaining about this.

We had a fight today in Shallows. You alliance seems to be able to fill in all the people they want for THEIR wars, but not yours.

 

In fact, I don't think any nation or alliance on PVP2 currently has the manpower to wage all out war for very long. So, history on the servers will just continue to repeat itself. One side will start rolling because they have the manpower and organization. They will be successful for a time until there are no more lands to conquer -- Alexander wept -- and then the conquerers get bored and the conquered claw their way back perhaps eventually reversing course and the roles switch (if the game survives).
That is spot on man. The history repeats itself over and over. We would love to change things, but unfortunately it didnt work. Here is why
US and GB want to see Pirates dead and off the server. This is their main desire. They dont want any balance. They want rats to be controlled.
If Pirates and the small nations would have the main population we would have been able to sort this and do what we proposed to US/GB to do - split and fight each other in a gentlemen fashion. But because we dont have numbers it is not possible for us to control. Yes today we have the numbers, but only JUST enough to fill in port battles. US and GB can do it too. Even when we are in our prime and on a roll. When we are DOWN the numbers, this is when US/GB start bullying. Then there are no pirates there are no retaining force to hold US/GB desire to drive every enemy to single region. Why? Because they are not as good PVP players and the only way they can win is by greatly outnumber. 

I roll this two examples:

1. Pirates got the server like now. Lets say we leave you all alone. PVP goes down. Lesser fights happens. US/GB/Dutch start growing. Pirates get bored and quit. Small nations cant fight US/GB without support so they start fighting each other to get ANY pvp. US/GB/Dutch grow back and what happens? They start bully the server again. We do our part, but they never do theirs. Notice how they are not even present on this thread? How do we know they wont? Well this has already happened twice. We kicked their arses two times before (not counting this last one) and told them we done, lets divide and balance the server. Next thing they want to take EVERYTHING. Why? Because they want Pirates dead. This is their only desire. Not to balance the server for you and me so we could enjoy more or less fair fights. No, no. Make no mistake. NPG, SKA, IGG all these clans leaders today's decisions are still affected by what happened a year ago, 6 month ago, 3 months ago. They just cant get over it.
What I'm getting to here is that WE ALREADY DID THIS BEFORE and not even once. We won wars and gave them thier shit back, Here can we all be friends again... Nope!

2. In this another example the US/GB/Dutch are the strongest on the server and rolling everyone over. Again there is nothing that we can do apart of complaining about 75% of population ally against 25%. So who's needs to do something? Is it now ok to drive small nations to one region? You dont like when this happens to you dont you? So is this ok? You say no, its not. But again who needs to do anything? Only those who are at power. Will they do it? They havent done it for months. GB/US never had a fight since August. This is why we all turned on them. This is the reason.

Why I'm so sure of this outcomes? Because when we were at power we gave them their territories back, hoping that they will start playing more reasonably. Balance server etc. We even done this twice already. No, nothing man. Never happened. All they remember that we kicked their butts and those butts hurt still. No matter that we kicked them BECAUSE of their hostility towards us in the first place. No matter that.
And when THEY ARE in power, like they were MANY MANY times before and will be in future too they never did anything for the server to balance. All they did is what pleased their leaders. Ever.
How long do we have to wait for them to do anything? At some point GB/US were holding hands for 6 months and there was nearly no PVP whatsoever. Recon why devs tried to give us PVP Event? So we could get SOME pvp on this PVP server. But what do you do when 75% of population doesnt want to fight each other? Seriously? What do you do if you are among those 25%

 

So here is the dilemma WE ALL FACE in this game as it is now structured. It is a game of conquest and war. We know from real life history that war is not very effective if it is fought just to hold the 38th parallel, pacify a population, establish a new government, etc. War is total, or it isn't very effective. Militaries are made to be used. If you build them, they tend to get used. And all we have to do in this game is war and build militaries. In many games, ultimate victory is defined. There is an objective. In Game Labs own Ultimate General Civil War, it is clear that you either play as the Union or CSA and your goal is to win the war by destroying the enemy army and its ability to fight. Afterwards, if you win or lose, you can reset your variables and do it again trying different tactics. In Naval Action, there is no end game so we are destined to continue the same pattern. One side dominates until they get bored, other side crawls back, dominates, then they get bored. But we have the added challenge that players who get bored or frustrated can fairly easily switch to the other side or just give up the game. I don't have a solution to this problem. Game Labs, give us an End Game!
My personal believe that this game needs is permanent nation lands of high security where it is possible to attack players, but at a high cost of being chased and attacked by AI paroling ships. The MAIN game content need to be mooved outside those capital areas to "free" regions that can be capped and claimed. So this way no nation can be driven to one port, they will still have means of survival. Until we have this now, again my personal believe is that we need to be more sensible people and not destoy our game.
You might not see this but pirates are trying very hard to do the right thing. Yes we fight, we gank, we sail solo and get ganked, we fight in PBs, we attack as much as we can and ALL THAT is what this game is about. However we dont want to hurt or destroy nations.
When we took GB down to 1 port we spent a week trying to make CKA to comeout. When Cordova clearly said that he wont do ANYTHING for his nation we understood that there was no point punishing people that were not involved. So we left them alone.
Just a months ago we finished Camel Toe operation. We had lots of fights and fun, but soon as we realised that US was broken we got out of there. Right away man.
We went down to fight Dutch. Why? Your nation declared war on us. Decken told us that Orinoko is going to be epic. In my books this is an indication that this nations wants to fight. Then what? Orinoko they brought about 15 players. And to date are bitching that we bring full numbers. We took 3 regions and what did we do? We stopped and for for 3 weeks left them alone. Last time I checked you we never driven to one region though we could go it in 1 week. Why? We let you be and gave you a chance to get more ships, more mods etc get ready for more fights, since your guys keep bitching they dont have enough. Or if you no longer want to fight you got to realise there is a war that is still declared on us. Do we walk away and leave the enemy behind, grow strong to attack our back again? This is just plain stupid and any half brain person would understand that no commander would expose this rear like that. Dont want to fight? Admit the war is over and you surrender. Being a winner we will decide which ports to give you back and which to keep. You will get your nation back to function and in fact become MUCH more secure than ever before.

See we are giving you choices. And they are all workable. We have NEVER been give ANY choice .

 

I cringed when I read that declaration of war (was it OneEyed?) because I knew he was writing a check that we did not have the bodies to cash.
Who is the leader? I don't know. I can tell you who is the most vocal but then probably so can you. LOL
Well exactly man. I understand that you might like the way your nation operates with no clan and everyone is one clan, but you must understand that this also comes at some expenses as such that you dont have a strong leader who could train and make your navy strong. Maybe you ARE a nation of carebears. And that is totally cool. Why not become neutral to all? Trader with everyone. Be a region where everyone can come and trade and get resources and not get ganked. So you will act as a guarantee and protection to traders and in return other nations will support you to keep this land neutral and accessible by all nations.
There is so much you could have done politically, diplomatically, military... instead you decided to go on a leash with Snake holding the other end. You allowed to be joined alliance that was about to fall, drugged into war with Pirates you could not win, lose all the support of your allies etc etc. This is the direct sign of your nation inability to function during the hard - decision making times as it is now.

 

I haven't played enough with the alliance partners to know if they have too many generals, but my observation of the Dutch is we don't have ENOUGH generals. We do have a lot of clans considering our small player base, but clans for us really are just logistic entities providing more storage for goods. I honestly don't know who is in what clan and rarely notice that we have different clan tags. Is this organization a mistake on our part? Perhaps. I can see the advantage in communication if we were all in the same clan.
At the very least you need one TS, which I hope you do. Trouble begin when you have other people joining Dutch and not being on the same books with the rest. Then its a mess.

 

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

37 minutes ago, koltes said:

Think about what I just said, mate. If you can't talk to your allies and they do nothing for you, maybe its time you finally come clean and admit few things and start the dialog where there will be place for Dutch in the SFPD Alliance? Just sayin

As long as those white supremacists are there no Dutch will join that alliance. Not to mention you pirates should never have an alliance. You are pirates, not privateers. 

40 minutes ago, koltes said:

If even bedbenny and Taurus apologised to Danes for their stupid remarks and now live in peace I'm sure you will be able to find common language even easier.

No issue with Danes. Previous statement should be enough. Anymore remarks past that I would more than likely get banned from the forums. 

47 minutes ago, koltes said:

Why not become neutral to all?

No Pirates because they are pirates, which should not be treated like it is a national faction, and no Swedes because of statements above. Not to mention it would not work. Being neutral is just the same as being in war in this game. There is no distinction between the two. You cannot expect all the egos on this server to stay in line to such a perfect orderly little scheme. This server will have no sense of order even if you try to beat it in. 

50 minutes ago, koltes said:

Well exactly man. I understand that you might like the way your nation operates with no clan and everyone is one clan, but you must understand that this also comes at some expenses as such that you dont have a strong leader who could train and make your navy strong.

Much like others keep telling us to have a strong leader all that does is just fortify an individuals ego, and at times a cult of personality. We will keep our ways if not tweak them if need be. But never a strong leader. Seen what it does to a faction internally and not all that great. Not saying having a strong leader is a bad concept for some individuals but it is not for everyone and a lot of people on PvP2 have taken it too far.  

51 minutes ago, koltes said:

At the very least you need one TS, which I hope you do. Trouble begin when you have other people joining Dutch and not being on the same books with the rest. Then its a mess.

We do and we understand where everyone lies for the most part in the Dutch. Every individual is able to state their opinions when it is the proper time to do so. When it comes to port battles people step up as a volunteer to lead the fight prior. 

[Koltes]

9 minutes ago, Davos Seasworth said:

As long as those white supremacists are there no Dutch will join that alliance. Not to mention you pirates should never have an alliance. You are pirates, not privateers. 

No issue with Danes. Previous statement should be enough. Anymore remarks past that I would more than likely get banned from the forums. 

No Pirates because they are pirates, which should not be treated like it is a national faction, and no Swedes because of statements above. Not to mention it would not work. Being neutral is just the same as being in war in this game. There is no distinction between the two. You cannot expect all the egos on this server to stay in line to such a perfect orderly little scheme. This server will have no sense of order even if you try to beat it in. 

Much like others keep telling us to have a strong leader all that does is just fortify an individuals ego, and at times a cult of personality. We will keep our ways if not tweak them if need be. But never a strong leader. Seen what it does to a faction internally and not all that great. Not saying having a strong leader is a bad concept for some individuals but it is not for everyone and a lot of people on PvP2 have taken it too far.  

We do and we understand where everyone lies for the most part in the Dutch. Every individual is able to state their opinions when it is the proper time to do so. When it comes to port battles people step up as a volunteer to lead the fight prior. 

That's fine man. No one is pushing you to MAKE those decisions. I used this as an example how you COULD get away from these situation and the lines I would have been thinking myself if I were Dutch.

No one is forcing or telling you to do anything. None. Nada.

Just ask your fellow nation members to stop crying then. We ARE playing this your way. Its unfortunate that your nation doesn't like the way it is since its your own choice, but then again this is YOUR unfortunate.


Not to mention you pirates should never have an alliance. You are pirates, not privateers.
And you too don't tell us what to do. Until game has different mechanics you will have to accept that WE ARE the nation with alliance limitation. Simple name "Pirate" doesn't make us any different to others. There are no benefits of being pirate, only limitations. All you get is the black flag  

Edited March 13, 2017 by koltes

[JobaSet]

3 hours ago, Farrago said:

Was that the "low level guy" at Hat Island in the Cerberus who had at least one, perhaps more, AI fleet Cerberus who was fighting partnered with "Wish List" who was in a Buc, who is actually "Jobaset" who is one of if not the most dangerous PVPers active right now? You know, when the two of them staked out Hat Island to get the first rates coming out? I would think perhaps it would have been British desire to not get involved in a deadly screening battle as they tried to head to the Saint John's port battle rather than fear.

 

You need to Edit this mate, I was in Ingermanland with a low lvl Char in Cerberus /w cerbs as his fleet against 2 1st rates AND THEY RAN #"Jobaset" who is one of if not the most dangerous PVPers active right now.   Dude this made me cry I was lol so hard

Edited March 13, 2017 by JobaSet

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

20 minutes ago, koltes said:

That's fine man. No one is pushing you to MAKE those decisions. I used this as an example how you COULD get away from these situation and the lines I would have been thinking myself if I were Dutch.

I understand that. My apologies if I came off thinking these were demands. Only demands we have ever heard so far is OneEyed had to leave the Dutch, which I assume you can guess who stated this demand and why we cannot accept such a demand simply on the premise that even though he can be a hello kitty (which I get on his case weekly about) at times he is still Dutch and we try our best to get every dutch man's back. 

20 minutes ago, koltes said:

No one is forcing or telling you to do anything. None. Nada.

Was not reading the statement like that. Just reflecting upon them. 

20 minutes ago, koltes said:

Just ask your fellow nation members to stop crying then. We ARE playing this your way. Its unfortunate that your nation doesnt like the way it is since its your own choice, but then again this is YOUR unfortunate.

You can try but it will not change anything. Their human. Frustration, exhaustion, depression, etc. When you beat up on someone as hard as you guys did with the support of other Nats with timing you are going to get a human response. Not saying you should not have retaliated. Yeah it sucks, O' well. For me I am more frustrated that people helped those white supremacists, which I am not saying as an insult but because they actually are. Yeah it is a personal thing. I have my reasons. If it was France or the Danes themselves with regions now where we once owned I would have been alright with it. Pirates owning our former regions is okay as well. Just do not expect really a fight from us to get it back. We do not have the strength especially with our ally spread as thin as they are. 

 

Edited March 13, 2017 by Davos Seasworth

[Sir Texas Sir]

19 minutes ago, koltes said:

Not to mention you pirates should never have an alliance. You are pirates, not privateers.
And you too don't tell us what to do. Until game has different mechanics you will have to accept that WE ARE the nation with alliance limitation. Simple name "Pirate" doesn't make us any different to others. There are no benefits of being pirate, only limitations. All you get is the black flag  

A lot of folks just don't understand those limitations.

1) We can't have alliances

2) We can not join any one port battles and they can't join ours.

3) We can join some OW fights if we are not at war with those nations.  We do get to vote for this one thing.  We can declare war on folks but that is it.

4) This use to be different as Danes have joined our fights before on OW, but since the Alliance patch they can no longer so no Nationals can join our fights.

None of the other nations have to fight with these limitations and have almost over half the server trying to kill you.  Just cause we have a verbal agreement to not fight the Danes (which is only between BLACK and CN/CCCP) that doesn't stop any other Dane from attack us or other Pirates from attacking them.  This goes with any other nation out there.   

I hear folks say Pirates is easy mode, last I checked all the nationals don't have these restrictions so no it's not easy mode.  Now add in what is coming next patch

5)  Pirates can attack each other for a FFA fight.   That means not only do we have to worry about just about every nationals trying to kill us now we have to worry about other pirates too.  I'm pretty sure the first week this patch comes out you will see a lot of BLACK ON BLACK Fights for the hell of it.

9 minutes ago, JobaSet said:

  Dude this made me cry I was lol so hard

He was laughing so hard he was crying and we where a bit worried as he couldn't get his breath.   I think he prob needed that.  Hell I think we all needed that.   Just glad he didn't see that post during the port battle.

[Koltes]

11 minutes ago, Davos Seasworth said:

I understand that. My apologies if I came off thinking these were demands. Only demands we have ever heard so far is OneEyed had to leave the Dutch

All good mate. As for the Snake frankly we dont care. Like really dont give a rats ass lol
Soon as we realised that he is not representing the nation we just got him on ignore. In fact most of us did. And whether or not he is in your nation its your loss not ours lol

Thats why I said to you earlier - do not compare him to Cordova. That man was the only one from who we actually demanded anything.
Since then we never trusted nations to make any such deals like we had with CKA, so not to be backstabbed again. Snake is just annoying kid who
has really done nothing to us. Not that he wouldn't its just we never game him the opportunity. We now got him isolated from our lives and everyone happy when they dont hear his hissing.

Edited March 13, 2017 by koltes

[Sir Texas Sir]

12 minutes ago, Davos Seasworth said:

Pirates owning our former regions is okay as well. Just do not expect really a fight from us to get it back. We do not have the strength especially with our ally spread as thin as they are. 

You mean regions we owned before you did?   Every one has owned something or another.   The only ones really should be complaining about loosing land is Spain as every one took from them after the reset of regions.   The whole area we took s a Buffer was ours before US/Brits pushed us down to 2 regions.    But last I checked this is a PvP server and we have RvR on it so folks will win and loose ports.  I actually expect it.  Other wise you get a boring game like what we had when US/Brits had almost all the regions and no one was fighting any one.   I have only said about the US/Brit break cause it would give folks something to do, fight each other and get there numbers up and not depend upon each other.  The problems is you guys don't want to try new things to see if they work.  Instead your solution is to go into hiding and hope we get bored.  Than we have exactly what happens back in November happen again.  Instead ya'll can try something new, shake it up and fight back.   Cause apparently the old way isn't working for you guys.  That is how we got our numbers back up.  We changed how we did things, got fights and got folks back.  

[JobaSet]

13 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

He was laughing so hard he was crying and we where a bit worried as he couldn't get his breath.   I think he prob needed that.  Hell I think we all needed that.   Just glad he didn't see that post during the port battle.

Yea That would have been Bad. But I now have it on my stream, best thing I have ever read on the forms hands Down.  Bigmo and Anierin if you get called out for being a ALT of mine.  I am Sorry.... Sort of But tell Farago I was in a inger please

 

[Farrago]

1 hour ago, JobaSet said:

You need to Edit this mate, I was in Ingermanland with a low lvl Char in Cerberus /w cerbs as his fleet against 2 1st rates AND THEY RAN #"Jobaset" who is one of if not the most dangerous PVPers active right now.   Dude this made me cry I was lol so hard

Edit made. Glad I gave you a laugh. We should all laugh more.

[OneEyedSnake]

1 hour ago, koltes said:

All good mate. As for the Snake frankly we dont care. Like really dont give a rats ass lol
Soon as we realised that he is not representing the nation we just got him on ignore. In fact most of us did. And whether or not he is in your nation its your loss not ours lol

Thats why I said to you earlier - do not compare him to Cordova. That man was the only one from who we actually demanded anything.
Since then we never trusted nations to make any such deals like we had with CKA, so not to be backstabbed again. Snake is just annoying kid who
has really done nothing to us. Not that he wouldn't its just we never game him the opportunity. We now got him isolated from our lives and everyone happy when they dont hear his hissing.

@Davos Seasworth thats the swedes that want me gone. Might make a swede alt. lmao Yea they arent happy after about the whole revealing on Taurus' google searches i did  

[Koltes]

I have already replied to this, but there is more could be said

 

2 hours ago, Davos Seasworth said:

I understand that. My apologies if I came off thinking these were demands. Only demands we have ever heard so far is OneEyed had to leave the Dutch, which I assume you can guess who stated this demand and why we cannot accept such a demand simply on the premise that even though he can be a hello kitty (which I get on his case weekly about) at times he is still Dutch and we try our best to get every dutch man's back.
This deserves respect. You either kick him yourself from your community or until he is Dutch you protect him. Yeah I think this deserve respect. Pity he doesn't understand the favour you doing to him.


...white supremacists...
I don't know why you bringing this up again, but I hope this will be the last one. This statement has nothing to do with politics that we have because there is no racism in the game. Those who allowed themselves any racism remarks were banned long ago.


Pirates owning our former regions is okay as well. Just do not expect really a fight from us to get it back. We do not have the strength especially with our ally spread as thin as they are.
100th time - we do not expect you to do anything. We don't care what you are doing or going to do. Not going to fight, you said? Ok, whatever floats your boat. Going to fight? Sweet as.
Whatever you do we will act accordingly. That is all.
If you actually need to know how pirates will respond when you do anything specific, then ask away. You will get the information openly and in timely manner.

 

 

 

 

 

[Farrago]

3 hours ago, JobaSet said:

You need to Edit this mate, I was in Ingermanland with a low lvl Char in Cerberus /w cerbs as his fleet against 2 1st rates AND THEY RAN #"Jobaset" who is one of if not the most dangerous PVPers active right now.   Dude this made me cry I was lol so hard

By the way, don't get too big of a head... I don't know that many people. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

11 minutes ago, Farrago said:

By the way, don't get too big of a head... I don't know that many people. 

I so want to tell him,"Look who he has to compare you with..."  LOL 

[Norfolk nChance]

Farrago,

 

The History lesson provided here on PvP(2) is rich, deep and very interesting. Things are not quite as they were but in the flux of change. I've no claim to any historical events or sometimes prejudices that might have occured and become a legacy. New to PvP(2) I want people to play in my sandbox in my world and how I want them to play...

Maybe my little cult, clan can make some history worth talking about in the future. As yet its a work in progress...

But shaping the future is always more exciting than looking at the past....

 

 

Norfolk nChance.

 

[Takumi El risitas]

10 hours ago, Teutonic said:

The Spanish Caribbean fleet made its debut in gracious fashion and hope to further achieve greatness, we are requesting assistance from the homelands for further advancement, for King and Queen!

Congrats!!

[JobaSet]

1 hour ago, Norfolk nChance said:

Farrago,

 

The History lesson provided here on PvP(2) is rich, deep and very interesting. Things are not quite as they were but in the flux of change. I've no claim to any historical events or sometimes prejudices that might have occured and become a legacy. New to PvP(2) I want people to play in my sandbox in my world and how I want them to play...

Maybe my little cult, clan can make some history worth talking about in the future. As yet its a work in progress...

But shaping the future is always more exciting than looking at the past....

 

 

Norfolk nChance.

 

just kill em, Smack talk later.  Look Guys its a Game Have fun,  I get it that I am and all the other Pirates are the bad guys.  But the ones that know me Know I just having fun.  If you listen to me on my twitch You can tell that is all I am doing having some Fun.  I jokingly call people names all the Time, Even Call them out, But its all for Fun, If everyone could get past that (on both Sides) this game would be so much better.  Anyways Now that Sandy Point Has been renamed I don't Know what to do now.  So watch your backs I could be anywhere or anyone apparently.. Girlfriend will be back Wed so if you See Wish List it may not be me,
In a Buc, at the bottom of the Sea
There's a log in the hole
In the bottom of the sea.
There's a branch on the log in the hole
In the bottom of the sea,

All together NOW