Please Restore the Social Perk

[Mrdoomed]

Riiiiiiiight. It's "delusional" to think that you should fight what's in visible range instead of every try-hard that sits in port crafting mods for ships they are afraid to lose until their buddy screams for help.

Got it.

Depending on mind and direction of battle a ship you can see is many hours from you catching them.

[Vernon Merrill]

Depending on mind and direction of battle a ship you can see is many hours from you catching them.

 

 

Exactly.  Which is why 2 mins. has been tested FOR OVER A YEAR NOW and has been found to be the best compromise.  With the right wind you can sail from Atwood to almost Mortimer in 10 mins.  Does ANYONE really think that you should be able to sail that far to join a battle???

 

REALLY???  

 

That being said, I really want to at least try the 2 Circle method that Admin touted one day not too long ago.  It gets rid of the timer problem altogether AND also the silliness of joing late as actually being an advantage.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Vernon Merrill

[ajffighter86]

The 2 minute timer prevents people from the entire region from joining the battle.  What you want is to pile on a smaller group with a larger group.  That smaller group was cohesive, sailing close together, and found a potential target that they thought they could fight.  You want to tell them "thanks for trying, but since we have 50 people over the horizon where you can't see them, you get to fight 25 on 3."  

 

Again, if you want to fight with a group, sail with that group.  If you don't want to be by yourself facing a larger force, sail with a larger force.  The 2 minute timer fully enables you to scan the horizon when you, as a single ship, spot an enemy and evaluate the risk of sticking around and fighting that enemy.  If I'm in a Frigate, and I spy another ship, I don't have to think "hmm...how many hundreds of people are in this area that I can't see, have no way of seeing, and have no way of knowing if they're there or not". I can scan, see that I'm alone (or see some other enemies nearby), and evaluate if I want to attack or try to flee.  5 or 10 minute timers don't allow this - see Prater's earlier threads on how far away you can be on a 5 minute timer - the answer is multiple islands away.

 

I honestly don't know what game you played for 1400 hours, and I have no idea where you're coming from that a longer timer benefits smaller groups of players, because neither assertion is even remotely true.

 

This. You can pretty much bet it will halt PVP in the Antilles due to the close proximity of the ports. I'm not going to sail over there with a few buddies just so that the people hiding in ports can get their jollies off on creating ambushes. Those guys can rot in the ports waiting for all I care, if that's how they want to spend their time logged onto the game.

 

I have no desire to give a handicap to people who aren't playing as a group, so they can have an advantage or even an undeserved 'even' fight with people who are putting in the effort of actively working together. And dare I go so far as to say it: even if it *is* a gank squadron near a port, they are still working together and naturally should have an advantage over people who are NOT.

 

+1 for 'Sail together, fight together.'

 

To Aethlstan, I recall the days on PVP2 with the longer timers. Vieques had dozens of players taking turns popping in and out of the port trying to gauge the enemy's strength. The result was, as I recall it, VERY LITTLE PVP'ing, lots of port sniping/'peek-a-boo' and eventually everyone just got frustrated that neither side had the guts to commit to sail out of port in force, and the next thing you know, 'it's time for bed', 'gotta work tomorrow' and lots of 'I don't have time for this ***t' being declared on teamspeak. [Log off.] No fight today, maybe tomorrow.

 

Please. Please do not bring those days back.

Edited September 14, 2016 by ajffighter86

[fox2run]

Exactly.  Which is why 2 mins. has been tested FOR OVER A YEAR NOW and has been found to be the best compromise.  With the right wind you can sail from Atwood to almost Mortimer.  Does ANYONE really think that you should be able to sail that far to join a battle???

 

REALLY???  

 

That being said, I really want to at least try the 2 Circle method that Admin touted one day not too long ago.  It gets rid of the timer problem altogether AND also the silliness of joing late as actually being an advantage.

 

I dont really care of distances. I want to take my ships into big battles without wasting hours and days ... Unless something is done about this, I will loose interest. Back in february with long timers - we had like 2000 players online on PvP1 alone. After 2 min timers has been introduced we have like 500-700 AFTER the servers merged!

 

Its no go! Im sorry - it just does not work!

Edited September 14, 2016 by fox2run

[Destraex]

Why don't any of you want to fight an even battle? Even though most will still turn out to be BR in your favour if you are quick?

[Vernon Merrill]

If you think player pop is because of this then we will have to agree to disagree.  In my opinion, it has far more to do with the content and perk systems...  And most of all summer.

[Anne Wildcat]

Why don't any of you want to fight an even battle? Even though most will still turn out to be BR in your favour if you are quick?

I'll take an even battle any day over ganking. As part a gank group, I hate when we extremely out BR the enemy and usually just get out of battle and get a snack when this happens (with the exception of traders, ganking traders is valid).

I'd also like to see people at sea looking for battles instead of sitting in port doing Econ, reading or trolling chats, and waiting for someone to cry saying there are enemies in the area.

[Kaos]

Thats not because of 2 min timers but because lack of new content my friend.

 

I like short timers, if you dont wish to get ganked just dont sail alone. And if you really must sail alone somewhere (transport mats or whatever)  - remmember that speed is your life insurance. If you still do it in SOL - thats only your fault that you get ganked.

that's a bit too much common sense for this entertaining thread, don't ruin the flow man

How am I supposed to play this game w 2 min timer if I click out of port and cannot cherrypick a handful of ongoing battles with my friends in every single one of them that needs saving right NOW? Or my friends sadistically waiting in port while I call for help and when I get tagged 5m outside of port they say ''sorry man, game prevents me from helping you''. Besides looking for live targets on OS is too uncertain and my friends with live oak masterrace ships are still in port so they won't reach up. We absolutely have to change the game regarding these crucial fun killing flaws.

[Anne Wildcat]

Stop sitting in ports waiting for fights. Use fast ships & look for people to battle or use your live oak ships to patrol your ports. You can still chat with your friends while at sea.

If you sail alone

-- Use fast ships,

-- Counter tag

-- Learn your best point to escape, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=651042782

-- Don't sail large trade ships

Edited September 14, 2016 by Anne Wildcat

[Anne Wildcat]

Nice thought...

But I remember being ganked once few months ago by a group out of IaV with you in it.... I wasn't a trader and you didn't get out of the battle. :D

I said usually, not always.

But I would much rather have fair fights in my pixel, replaceable, ships. Ganks with multiple times the BR are super boring.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Anne Wildcat

[Hethwill]

I dont really care of distances. I want to take my ships into big battles without wasting hours and days ... Unless something is done about this, I will loose interest. Back in february with long timers - we had like 2000 players online on PvP1 alone. After 2 min timers has been introduced we have like 500-700 AFTER the servers merged!

 

Its no go! Im sorry - it just does not work!

 

As I suggested, full battle timer open for ongoing battles with two fair rules:

 

- Your ship must be in the OW and not at port screen. Meaning all battles already going when you leave port will be closed, end of.

 

- Spawn at "true" horizon spotting distance.

[fox2run]

As I suggested, full battle timer open for ongoing battles with two fair rules:

 

- Your ship must be in the OW and not at port screen. Meaning all battles already going when you leave port will be closed, end of.

 

- Spawn at "true" horizon spotting distance.

 

you forget the social aspect : how to help mates and how to find a battle? the FUN factor

Edited September 14, 2016 by fox2run

[Anne Wildcat]

you forget the social aspect : how to help mates and how to find a battle? the FUN factor

Sail with them! Edited September 14, 2016 by Anne Wildcat

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Why don't any of you want to fight an even battle? Even though most will still turn out to be BR in your favour if you are quick?

 

I don't mind a fair fight - I enjoy them when they happen.

 

However, longer timers don't lead to more fair fights. Further, a sandbox/open world system, but it's very nature, does not require, nor promise fair fights.  If you want "even" fights, you're looking for an arena based matchmaker system, not an open world sandbox game.

 

I'm also not a fan of battle timers at all.  I like the big/little circle idea a lot. I'd rather a battle pop up, and anyone joining that battle joins at the scaled out distance and direction they were at when the battle started.  This still lets you fight what you see, still prevents half of a Nation piling on the nearest fight, and still gives you the flavor of the age of sail.  What you see me fighting against, tooth and nail in this thread, is this idea that somehow, keeping battles open for 30 minutes results in a fun fight.  It does, for the group with the largest presence in the game. I won't even say in the area, with TP, in the game.  They get to pile 25 ships onto any fight they want. If you're going to do this, may as well stop the entire idea of Open World and go back to Sea Trials, where the game can quietly die in a few months.

[Bart Smith]

Just quick remider: there is a PvE server as well...

[fox2run]

im not talking about fair fights. Im talking about having one without the heavy organization on TS, clans, hourlong preparations etc.

 

Its not complicated:

 

short timers - fewer battles - smaller battles

 

long timer: more battles - larger battles

 

unfairness will always exist in OW

 

I have no clue on how to post pictures or those cool streamers (signatures) in here but my latest screen was of a 20 vs 1 fight i had... no reinforcements could make it. So what happened? I got crushed of course... but the aid came, but waited for long time outside the battlescreen to countergang the force attacking me. They wasted 30 min or so. And i couldnt join the ensuing fight as I was destroyed. The following big battle came after a lot of wasted time for all: me, the attackers hiding in battle screen and the reinforcements.

 

If the join timers where - say 5 min - i would have had fun too maybe being part of a more fair fight, and no one had to wait in battle screens or outside for another battle. The outcome where exactly the same. 2 min is just less fun and more wasted time for all players. Cant you see it?

Edited September 14, 2016 by fox2run

[Kaos]

I don't mind a fair fight - I enjoy them when they happen.

 

However, longer timers don't lead to more fair fights. Further, a sandbox/open world system, but it's very nature, does not require, nor promise fair fights.  If you want "even" fights, you're looking for an arena based matchmaker system, not an open world sandbox game.

 

I'm also not a fan of battle timers at all.  I like the big/little circle idea a lot. I'd rather a battle pop up, and anyone joining that battle joins at the scaled out distance and direction they were at when the battle started.  This still lets you fight what you see, still prevents half of a Nation piling on the nearest fight, and still gives you the flavor of the age of sail.  What you see me fighting against, tooth and nail in this thread, is this idea that somehow, keeping battles open for 30 minutes results in a fun fight.  It does, for the group with the largest presence in the game. I won't even say in the area, with TP, in the game.  They get to pile 25 ships onto any fight they want. If you're going to do this, may as well stop the entire idea of Open World and go back to Sea Trials, where the game can quietly die in a few months.

I think these people who favor longer timers look at it from innocent potential random encounter point of view, they might not be aware of the slaughter that an organized bigger group can do thanks to longer timers so this creates all this miscommunication in my opinion.

[fox2run]

I think these people who favor longer timers look at it from innocent potential random encounter point of view, they might not be aware of the slaughter that an organized bigger group can do thanks to longer timers so this creates all this miscommunication in my opinion.

 

yeah - players that disfavour 2 min timers must be either noobs, innocents or the like. Like me and Ætelstan... (listen to him and you will see the light)...

[Anne Wildcat]

If you sail alone

-- Use fast ships

-- Counter tag

-- Learn your best point to escape, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=651042782

-- Don't sail large trade ships

Edited September 14, 2016 by Anne Wildcat

[TommyShelby]

Personal Experience: 

 

For about a month i have been raiding around Jamaica. For about 1 week i have been raiding the US Coast.

I raid with my mates. We are usually a group of 3 to 6 players. 

 

Most often we go raiding in a small group of frigates.

- 2 Trinco

- 2 Surprises

 

Sometimes we find a lone 1st rate or 2nd rate and capture it.  More often than not we actually meet enemy groups of frigates (With maybe 1 SoL), they often have slightly more ships, or they have slightly bigger ships. 

We tend to attack these groups because the fun comes from the challenge. 

When we win these kinds of fights the enemy (US or Brits, it dont matter) almost always have a "revenge fleet" sitting outside the battle. With 5 minute timers that revenge fleet might have made it into our battle and made that battle unwinnable (And btw, not fun for either side.) 

 

Funny thing is, these revenge fleet are very rarely succesful and we have lost maybe 5 Durabilities in total over the last month. (Combined loss in our little group of raiders). Even if we jump out of Battle Result screen we usually all get away. 

You ask why?
Well, we've been victim to many "revenge fleets" by now and we have learned how to survive. 
Furthermore we pick our ships for this exact purpose:

- Surprise can escape most enemy ships by sailing upwind. The 4 Stern Chasers are no joke. And if anything gets real close a Carronade Surprise hits hard and can demast any ship fast enough to catch up with ease. 

- The Trincomalee is fast downwind and hits like a truck. No stern chasers makes it slightly less suited for escaping an enemy but the firepower makes it possible for a Trinco to demast things as big as a Bellona with 5-10 well aimed shots. Get too close to me and i will put you out of the chase with a single broadside. 

 

I only PvP, and i do it all the time. I go where i know there are enemies to be found. 

But every single time we PvP there is always a revenge fleet waiting outside and the enemy always tried to bring 2x the amount of ships/firepower that we have. With 2 minute timers we can usually get a pretty good fight going, it's never 100% "fair" in terms of BR/Firepower but it's much closer than it was with 5 minute timers. 

 

And no, it does not take hours of preparation. I'll make a preparation list for you: 

- Setting up outpost (1 time thing, can take 1-2 hours depending on how far you need to sail). 

- Teleport ship you wanna use (Even if you do this every single time it never takes more than 5 minutes to TP a ship.) 

 

When you have done the above there is only 2 steps left:

- Get on TS. 

- Make group ingame for those that wants to come with you.

- Set Sail.

- Sail to your hunting grounds (If setup outpost in free town near hunting ground this usually doesn't take more than 10-20 minutes.) 

- Attack something! 

 

Edit: I totally forgot to mention counter tagging. If a "revenge" fleet tries anything you can counter tag  and your odds of escaping with your ship in good condition is boosted like 75%. 
Well, that is if you do it properly! (Thanks Anne for reminding me xD)

[Herpaderp64]

I sense a great deal of anger in you.  

well your senses are not very good then 

[fox2run]

been there - done that - it was still more fun before! A LOT!

[Mrdoomed]

I dont really care of distances. I want to take my ships into big battles without wasting hours and days ... Unless something is done about this, I will loose interest. Back in february with long timers - we had like 2000 players online on PvP1 alone. After 2 min timers has been introduced we have like 500-700 AFTER the servers merged!

Its no go! Im sorry - it just does not work!

You should try wows.

[TommyShelby]

Heck, maybe i should mention when we go raiding in 4x 2nd rates. Or when we go in 4x 1st rates.

 

When we show up with this kind of firepower the enemy likes bringing more than twice the amount of ships we have. (So it's often 4v10 forexamlpe). 

But with counter tagging and coordination you can win such a fight, and if you can't win you can usually escape. 
 

All it takes is that you play it smart and know what you are doing. 

 

With 5 minute timers winning/escaping a battle like this would be impossible because it would never just be 4v10, it would be 4v15 or 4v20 instead. Why? 
Well, ehz simple, people would shout in Nation chat for help and people would TP to port nearby and pour in till the 4 players have absolutely no chance of winning that fight. 

[fox2run]

You are still talking about fairness. Screw fairness. Im taling about wasting less time and the social aspect of things. My latest battle in 2 min timers says it all: 20:1. My mates couldnt help as the circle closed. So they waited for half an hour (waiting - nothing else - waste of time). What where they waiting for? The ganking fleet. And the ganking fleet? They where waiting in battle screen. Maybe for some cutter to scout for them first. Everyone was waiting. Finally a fight occured. And who could not participate? Me. I was destroyed and send to some remote harbour in a cutter.  The gankers got crushed. 

 

So would a 5 min timer change this? Yes . the reinforcements would be there in time. A big battle would envelop. Without waiting - without wasting time. And the attacked would have a chance as well.

 

The ONLY players that 2 min timers is a favour to is: 

 

TS crews that have too much sparetime and dislike any risk of meeting a larger force.

 

AND Those coward luring 2-3 ships outside any and all free towns. 

 

The game is a big boredom UNLESS you have 1) too much sparetime,  2) Like to sit hours on end in TS,  3) like to play in empty PBs

 

 

Cmon - its NOT fun!

Edited September 14, 2016 by fox2run