Please Restore the Social Perk

[jodgi]

I'm almost giving up hope, with this amount of misguided whinage we might get long timers and all kinds of weird perks.

Oh, well. Back to port hiding, decoy ships and countergenk stronk tektiks. (You loved that stuff, didn't you?)

In a month all the misguided whining will be about that^^, then change RoE back to what we have now, and lastly I'm quite confident we will have gone full swing back to whining about "I can't help my friends, 2 min timers aren't fun".

This is how much I trust the judgement of the "I don't like closed instances" crowd.

[Mrdoomed]

I either:

A) Sail in something I know I have a reasonable chance of escaping with.

b: Find a friend, who also realizes that sailing alone in an MMO is dangerous.

C) Accept that these are pixel ships and loss provides a benefit for crafters.

D) Lose my favorite ship, kick my dog, yell at my wife, punch my neighbor, set my PC on fire and never play the game again.....

and P.S.-- If you the other ships couldnt join your battle within 2 mins, you weren't "sailing in a group"

Listen, I didnt call you a "bad player". I said you made a "bad decision" So do I sometimes.

E actually look both ways before going out since as you said the other town is so close that decent situational awareness will keep you alive.

[Mrdoomed]

It's getting too technical for you guys.

Rethink the project:

How can we as players go to a battle when we log in?? Easy. Fast. No delay. In reasonable time.

I dont use weeks building warships that can't be used.

Tnx.

How? I log in and have pvp in under 3 minutes.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

I will repeat again.

 

1. I love ganking

2. Ganking is for big boys, but Devs are doing everything in favour of gankers, because otherwise the gankers cry like babies

3. Ganking must be hard, risky and tough. If you don't like it, don't cry, go and trade or play on PvE server.

When I look at all these self-called "gankers" that cry like babies, I just laugh at them. Stop crying to Devs and threatening them that you will quit the game or such, get your s**t together, grow some balls and look at Blackjack Morgan or other gankers that got balls and are not scared to fight or use 10000 exploits calling them "game features" or "game mechanics".

 

Shorter timers have had the opposite effect. Now, the biggest group in a 300 square mile area doesn't have the advantage any more.  If you want to fight as a group, sail as a group.  This was true in the Age of Sail, and it is true with 2 minute timers.  10 minute (or 30 minute timers) were the equivalent of having the entire ports of Portsmouth and Cadiz show up after the Battle of Trafalgar started to pile on and help out their peeps.  It didn't happen then, and it shouldn't happen in this game.

 

There is no reason why someone should be able to attack with impunity outside a busy port. People can hear gunfire for miles and miles over open ocean. That was their communication system. That was their GPS. Sail to the guns.

 

No reason other than the above you mean - where entire battles happened nearly in sight of major ports with those in the port unable to assist because it was too far away.  This wasn't modern times where you fired up the motor and flew out to the aid of a friend - you were either in close proximity to friendlies, or you were on your own.  Captains in the Age of Sail fought mostly alone, or with one or two other ships in close support - they didn't radio to port for reinforcements.

 

It's getting too technical for you guys.

Rethink the project:

 

How can we as players go to a battle when we log in?? Easy. Fast. No delay. In reasonable time.

 

I dont use weeks building warships that can't be used.

 

Tnx.

 

We had this - it was called Sea Trials.  It was a ghost town shortly before Open World started.  We still have this - it's called Large/Small battles.  Join, fight, ???, profit.  Don't try to turn Open World into an arena shooter - it's not supposed to be that.

[z4ys]

For everyone who says escorts aren't fun.

[Mrdoomed]

Shorter timers have had the opposite effect. Now, the biggest group in a 300 square mile area doesn't have the advantage any more. If you want to fight as a group, sail as a group. This was true in the Age of Sail, and it is true with 2 minute timers. 10 minute (or 30 minute timers) were the equivalent of having the entire ports of Portsmouth and Cadiz show up after the Battle of Trafalgar started to pile on and help out their peeps. It didn't happen then, and it shouldn't happen in this game.

No reason other than the above you mean - where entire battles happened nearly in sight of major ports with those in the port unable to assist because it was too far away. This wasn't modern times where you fired up the motor and flew out to the aid of a friend - you were either in close proximity to friendlies, or you were on your own. Captains in the Age of Sail fought mostly alone, or with one or two other ships in close support - they didn't radio to port for reinforcements.

We had this - it was called Sea Trials. It was a ghost town shortly before Open World started. We still have this - it's called Large/Small battles. Join, fight, ???, profit. Don't try to turn Open World into an arena shooter - it's not supposed to be that.

The same group complain about timers whether they are long or short fat or skinny.

There is a group of players who simply are not that good. I simply hope the dev team is getting that picture too now.

[Destraex]

social will be reworked

it will allow unlimited entry for the weaker side up to 1v1 (+/- 20%) BR

but not more. 

Admin, personally I think it should be number of ships rather than BR (even number of ships allowed on each side). That would add an element of chance that you are either going to get fast re-enforcement which are not so big or organised re-enforcement which are bigger but take longer. Just a thought.

The gankers will still have an advantage as they will be able to beat up the lone ship for a while before things are equalised but this I believe will be as it should be.

 

Personally I don't think a perk should need to be spent to get the BR equalisation rule in place. It should just be a given that you can join battles up to a BR limit once the initial engagement has started.

[Destraex]

Shorter timers have had the opposite effect. Now, the biggest group in a 300 square mile area doesn't have the advantage any more.  If you want to fight as a group, sail as a group.  This was true in the Age of Sail, and it is true with 2 minute timers.  10 minute (or 30 minute timers) were the equivalent of having the entire ports of Portsmouth and Cadiz show up after the Battle of Trafalgar started to pile on and help out their peeps.  It didn't happen then, and it shouldn't happen in this game.

 

 

No reason other than the above you mean - where entire battles happened nearly in sight of major ports with those in the port unable to assist because it was too far away.  This wasn't modern times where you fired up the motor and flew out to the aid of a friend - you were either in close proximity to friendlies, or you were on your own.  Captains in the Age of Sail fought mostly alone, or with one or two other ships in close support - they didn't radio to port for reinforcements.

 

 

We had this - it was called Sea Trials.  It was a ghost town shortly before Open World started.  We still have this - it's called Large/Small battles.  Join, fight, ???, profit.  Don't try to turn Open World into an arena shooter - it's not supposed to be that.

Henry. This game cannot replicate many elements of the age of sail. Convoys, convoy escorts and the constant mundane combat patrols are some of them. This has to be compensated for. 

As for actions outside port and the reaction of a port... this did happen in real life a fair bit. Especially with gunboats. I think you need to consider since time is compressed, the whole of an area around a capital to pretty much be like being right next to port and near it's defences for the purposes of battle timers.

 

With the admins new BR battle limit system you may even get people sailing and patrolling for battle... currently it is pointless. This would bring friendly ships coming into sight to save the day which did happen in real life (especially with a returning escort) back into play. 

 

What it certainly will do is make defence viable again and reset the balance. People will know they at least have a chance if they set sail. They will fight harder and with hope... they will not be as likely to just throw in the towel and move games. They will know that their friends in this team game can co-operate with them without having to spend countless hours doing nothing.

 

Personally I don't think a perk should need to be spent to get the BR equalisation rule in place. It should just be a given that you can join battles up to a BR limit once the initial engagement has started.

[Mrdoomed]

Admin, personally I think it should be number of ships rather than BR (even number of ships allowed on each side). That would add an element of chance that you are either going to get fast re-enforcement which are not so big or organised re-enforcement which are bigger but take longer. Just a thought.

The gankers will still have an advantage as they will be able to beat up the lone ship for a while before things are equalised but this I believe will be as it should be.

Personally I don't think a perk should need to be spent to get the BR equalisation rule in place. It should just be a given that you can join battles up to a BR limit once the initial engagement has started.

so once again you wish to offset skill with carebear gimiks. Ai fleets, social perks, teleportation from across the map to help those who refuse to get better or are just not capable.

Its like players want to punish players with skill and who use strategy instead of gimmicks.

[Mrdoomed]

Henry. This game cannot replicate many elements of the age of sail. Convoys, convoy escorts and the constant mundane combat patrols are some of them. This has to be compensated for.

As for actions outside port and the reaction of a port... this did happen in real life a fair bit. Especially with gunboats. I think you need to consider since time is compressed, the whole of an area around a capital to pretty much be like being right next to port and near it's defences for the purposes of battle timers.

With the admins new BR battle limit system you may even get people sailing and patrolling for battle... currently it is pointless. This would bring friendly ships coming into sight to save the day which did happen in real life (especially with a returning escort) back into play.

What it certainly will do is make defence viable again and reset the balance. People will know they at least have a chance if they set sail. They will fight harder and with hope... they will not be as likely to just throw in the towel and move games. They will know that their friends in this team game can co-operate with them without having to spend countless hours doing nothing.

Personally I don't think a perk should need to be spent to get the BR equalisation rule in place. It should just be a given that you can join battles up to a BR limit once the initial engagement has started.

Pirates protect thier newbs,pirates protect thier trade ships when needed,pirates respond to threats in thier waters. For this pirates are called black flag nationals and mocked.

How ironic that the acuall nation players who let thier noobs die, refuse to protect trade ships and raid empty ports,should be called red and green flaged pirates.

Well exept they cant pvp.

[Æthlstan]

I'm almost giving up hope, with this amount of misguided whinage we might get long timers and all kinds of weird perks.

Oh, well. Back to port hiding, decoy ships and countergenk stronk tektiks. (You loved that stuff, didn't you?)

In a month all the misguided whining will be about that^^, then change RoE back to what we have now, and lastly I'm quite confident we will have gone full swing back to whining about "I can't help my friends, 2 min timers aren't fun".

This is how much I trust the judgement of the "I don't like closed instances" crowd.

Its not misguided whining when most people dont stick around for more than a week anymore.

And you act that hiding in ports, decoy ships, and countergank doesnt happen anymore...funny because thats the only PvP you see with a 2 minute timer.

The 2 minute timer gives all the advantage to the attacker. It makes it impossible to act defensively, or to coordinate with nearby teamates, because you can be in sight of your friend and still not be able to join the battle.

Approaching a freetown, gankers are hiding. You cant see them because theyre all in port. A basic cutter pops out and spots you. Since you probably already swept the port for enemies, youre now scanning larboard/starboard/aft. Suddenly you notice the countown or you find yourself in combat. There are 5 enemy ships against your 1. Your 3-4 friends who are ported up waiting for you are unable to help at all even tho they spawned from the port less than a minute after your enemies.

That scenario is moat of the PvP i see nowadays. Entirely unavoidable, because its impossible to know the enemy is there until it is too late to run. You have seen 0 enemy movement all night so there is no reason to suspect enemies are around.

Thing is, they are around. Invisible. Hiding in ports, or in OP's case, behind headlands in narrow passages, that are just as impossible to avoid. And no one can help.

The rabid 2 minute timer types say its unrealistic to be able to reinforce a battle that in real life would last hours, because they argue, with time dialation tbe battle would probably be over. They argue that it takes time to send a ship to sea (no, actually, wartime boats could leave harbor quite quickly). At the same time, they instantaneously jump out of port at the perfect instant to snare someone, that in real life, could have seen them. Or they hide behind headlands that, in real life, were not nearly as good a place to hide and use time dialation to their advantage to snag ships before they can turn around

And they say their preferred, easymode, farmville, basically PvE playstyle is more realistic....maybe they dont realize that their arguments suck? That cant be tho, ive destroyed them time and time again.

People used to work together. People used to respond to calls for help. Now, pwople dont. Why bother? Social perk doesnt change anything because no one knows if the guy who was tagged has it or not

We went from having ridiculous amounts of PvP (averaging 10 fights in 4 hours or less) with the 5 minute timer, to PvP being a rarity.

(1 fight where people dont run, A WEEK, if I am lucky)

This is all due to player psychology. Players will not stay and fight in a battle they feel cant be won

PLayers DID stay and fight with the old system, because people would tell them to hold on, and people would try to show up. Sometimes they got there in time, sometimes they didnt. But instead of an hour long chase, you got a 20 minute firefight.

Yet this 5 minute timer was bad because you couldnt attack people in front of freeports and capitals without getting swarmed. So the carebears moaned and complained until they got their 2 minute timer, which enables them to be toxic players with no repercussions.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Æthlstan

[Vernon Merrill]

Shorter timers have had the opposite effect. Now, the biggest group in a 300 square mile area doesn't have the advantage any more. If you want to fight as a group, sail as a group. This was true in the Age of Sail, and it is true with 2 minute timers. 10 minute (or 30 minute timers) were the equivalent of having the entire ports of Portsmouth and Cadiz show up after the Battle of Trafalgar started to pile on and help out their peeps. It didn't happen then, and it shouldn't happen in this game.

No reason other than the above you mean - where entire battles happened nearly in sight of major ports with those in the port unable to assist because it was too far away. This wasn't modern times where you fired up the motor and flew out to the aid of a friend - you were either in close proximity to friendlies, or you were on your own. Captains in the Age of Sail fought mostly alone, or with one or two other ships in close support - they didn't radio to port for reinforcements.

We had this - it was called Sea Trials. It was a ghost town shortly before Open World started. We still have this - it's called Large/Small battles. Join, fight, ???, profit. Don't try to turn Open World into an arena shooter - it's not supposed to be that.

This. X. A. Million.

[Æthlstan]

As for the Darby qoute, he has to be living in a cloud.

 

this biggest group in a 300 mile radius now has complete control over the area. They have the ability to operate with impunity, and there is no way for a smaller nation of players to learn where the threat is and confront it.

 

 

I point to PvP2 france in February through April. We went up against a nation that outnumbered us by a ridiculous amount, and the 5 minute timer allowed us to have a chance,

 

If the 2 minute timer existed back then, in the shitstorm I started playing the game in, I would have left. 40 french would have had no chance against an enemy that could muster over 100 people at any given time, especially because those 40 french were spread across multiple NA, Asia, and Oceania time zones.

 

These french still needed to trade, they still needed to craft, manage resources, give ships and resources to other players, etc. They couldn't spend all day clumped up in a cluster, and people want to enjoy all features of a game, so most players don't like the idea of being anchored to other players for their entire play experience

 

Individuals play this game. Individuals. Not the Borg. This game doesn't enlist anyone in any real world navy. Therefore, players will do things solo. The 2 minute timer makes that impossible, because that huge gigantic group usually blocks the trade lanes. You may only have time to make trade runs tonight. Your nation probably has operations going on you may not want to detract from in asking for an escort. You may not be able to turn around and jump in a PvP ship, due to time restrictions. You might not be able to anyways, if they see you. With the 5 minute timer, you could alert people to the large threat (before you shout "unrealistic" think "time dilation" and "semaphores") and,in the case of the heavily outnumbered PvP2 french, we would gather to face the threat and try to rescue our trader. Resulting in a pretty awesome fight, especially because we were usually still outnumbered. We would throw ourselves into the teeth of 3rd rates in our surprises, to win our trader clear. Then, we would continue to fight, many times to the death, many times taking most of the enemy with us. Awesome fights, awesome times.  Nowadays, that 10 man group will jump on the lonely trader's snow, no defenders can show up, and the 10 man group sends out their rattlesnake to look for a revenge fleet. If they see one, they log off and log back in with their alternate accounts to do it again.

 

 

Tell me darby, how does this 2 minute timer hurt the big groups in any way? It localizes and amplifies their power and makes them invincible.

 

 

I'm not making this up. This is directly from memory, and over 1400 hours in the game. All I want, is for this game to be successful, and I simply do not see that happening unless we fix this combat system.

 

I'm one of those guys who goes out of his way to help new players. I dont want to toot my own horn,  I just want you to understand the effort I have put forth to try to grow this community, but please understand, I do not have millions of dollars or shipyards full of pimped out ships.

 

I have less than a million, and I have put 40 mid grade notes into 2 rattlesnakes to give to the newest players in my clan. to help them get a leg up in PvP. They are europeans, and play when I am at work. Thats over 4 million gold dumped into those 2 guys, because I do not want them to leave this game because of the crap combat system, like the countless others I have seen in the past few months. (as many of you may deduct, a gold rattle with a few gold upgrades isn't going to do much to convince someone to stay if the basic combat system is what is wrong with their experience)

 

I teach them as much as I can about the realities of the OW, but unless you are dumb, you can't expect them to accept everything someone says at face value. Experience is the best teacher. And as it stands, for a huge chunk of the people who have bought this game, their experiences tell them it was a waste of money. Especially when they come on here and see big problems treated like they aren't problems. Timers, I thought, were temporary. Combat features to be fleshed out more fully during the course of the alpha. Well, we still have timers, they suck more than they used to, and we still don't have the better combat system that was supposedly going to replace it before release. We haven't even tested a potential candidate.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Æthlstan

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

As for the Darby qoute, he has to be living in a cloud.

 

this biggest group in a 300 mile radius now has complete control over the area. They have the ability to operate with impunity, and there is no way for a smaller nation of players to learn where the threat is and confront it.

 

 

I point to PvP2 france in February through April. We went up against a nation that outnumbered us by a ridiculous amount, and the 5 minute timer allowed us to have a chance,

 

If the 2 minute timer existed back then, in the shitstorm I started playing the game in, I would have left. 40 french would have had no chance against an enemy that could muster over 100 people at any given time, especially because those 40 french were spread across multiple NA, Asia, and Oceania time zones.

 

These french still needed to trade, they still needed to craft, manage resources, give ships and resources to other players, etc. They couldn't spend all day clumped up in a cluster, and people want to enjoy all features of a game, so most players don't like the idea of being anchored to other players for their entire play experience

 

Individuals play this game. Individuals. Not the Borg. This game doesn't enlist anyone in any real world navy. Therefore, players will do things solo. The 2 minute timer makes that impossible, because that huge gigantic group usually blocks the trade lanes. You may only have time to make trade runs tonight. Your nation probably has operations going on you may not want to detract from in asking for an escort. You may not be able to turn around and jump in a PvP ship, due to time restrictions. You might not be able to anyways, if they see you. With the 5 minute timer, you could alert people to the large threat (before you shout "unrealistic" think "time dilation" and "semaphores") and,in the case of the heavily outnumbered PvP2 french, we would gather to face the threat and try to rescue our trader. Resulting in a pretty awesome fight, especially because we were usually still outnumbered. We would throw ourselves into the teeth of 3rd rates in our surprises, to win our trader clear. Then, we would continue to fight, many times to the death, many times taking most of the enemy with us. Awesome fights, awesome times.  Nowadays, that 10 man group will jump on the lonely trader's snow, no defenders can show up, and the 10 man group sends out their rattlesnake to look for a revenge fleet. If they see one, they log off and log back in with their alternate accounts to do it again.

 

 

Tell me darby, how does this 2 minute timer hurt the big groups in any way? It localizes and amplifies their power and makes them invincible.

 

 

I'm not making this up. This is directly from memory, and over 1400 hours in the game. All I want, is for this game to be successful, and I simply do not see that happening unless we fix this combat system.

 

I'm one of those guys who goes out of his way to help new players. I dont want to toot my own horn,  I just want you to understand the effort I have put forth to try to grow this community, but please understand, I do not have millions of dollars or shipyards full of pimped out ships.

 

I have less than a million, and I have put 40 mid grade notes into 2 rattlesnakes to give to the newest players in my clan. to help them get a leg up in PvP. They are europeans, and play when I am at work. Thats over 4 million gold dumped into those 2 guys, because I do not want them to leave this game because of the crap combat system, like the countless others I have seen in the past few months. (as many of you may deduct, a gold rattle with a few gold upgrades isn't going to do much to convince someone to stay if the basic combat system is what is wrong with their experience)

 

I teach them as much as I can about the realities of the OW, but unless you are dumb, you can't expect them to accept everything someone says at face value. Experience is the best teacher. And as it stands, for a huge chunk of the people who have bought this game, their experiences tell them it was a waste of money. Especially when they come on here and see big problems treated like they aren't problems. Timers, I thought, were temporary. Combat features to be fleshed out more fully during the course of the alpha. Well, we still have timers, they suck more than they used to, and we still don't have the better combat system that was supposedly going to replace it before release. We haven't even tested a potential candidate.

The 2 minute timer prevents people from the entire region from joining the battle.  What you want is to pile on a smaller group with a larger group.  That smaller group was cohesive, sailing close together, and found a potential target that they thought they could fight.  You want to tell them "thanks for trying, but since we have 50 people over the horizon where you can't see them, you get to fight 25 on 3."  

 

Again, if you want to fight with a group, sail with that group.  If you don't want to be by yourself facing a larger force, sail with a larger force.  The 2 minute timer fully enables you to scan the horizon when you, as a single ship, spot an enemy and evaluate the risk of sticking around and fighting that enemy.  If I'm in a Frigate, and I spy another ship, I don't have to think "hmm...how many hundreds of people are in this area that I can't see, have no way of seeing, and have no way of knowing if they're there or not". I can scan, see that I'm alone (or see some other enemies nearby), and evaluate if I want to attack or try to flee.  5 or 10 minute timers don't allow this - see Prater's earlier threads on how far away you can be on a 5 minute timer - the answer is multiple islands away.

 

I honestly don't know what game you played for 1400 hours, and I have no idea where you're coming from that a longer timer benefits smaller groups of players, because neither assertion is even remotely true.

[fox2run]

Here's a suggestion. Scrap the battle timer argument. Time is irrelevant when the overall problem is lack of players wanting anything to do with each other and no incentive to sail together, only to spam agonizing pleas for help when suddenly it wasn't such a great idea to be out on a trader alone.

 

Instead:

 

Have players be able to generate their own escort missions that PROMOTE sailing together.

 

For example: I need to run a shipment of oak logs from Wilmington to St. Marys. I know it's pretty darn foolish to try to do this on my own with pirates/danes/swedes/French/clowns/hobos/IRS agents/everyone's cousin/beggars coming out of Sunbury to gank raid traders.

 

I'll create a group. Join my group and it'll generate an escort mission, and you'll get a calculated number of XP points based on distance/risk and gold (which I, the trader, has to furnish out of my own pockets), to motivate players to accept this mission and sail along. Typically this line of work will attract newer players, and they don't have much to lose and it would require perhaps less effort for the rewards, provided we don't get attacked. And if we do get attacked, well, PVP for everyone.

 

Too hard to implement? Maybe, but it makes more sense than sending an 18th century text-message in nation chat, with the coordinates of the battle, for everyone and their uncle to form a counter fleet that sails for (time compressed) days to join a battle that lasts 1.5 hours in real time.

 

Point is: I would LOVE to see missions that actually PROMOTE players sailing together, rather than typical 'go sail here and sink the robot' missions that aren't really worthy of a PVP server. The biggest issue with this suggestion is that you actually have to make these types of human-interaction missions more appealing (rewarding) than grinding admiralty orders.

 

The idea of making some sort of in game mission-builder is not stupid. It will be a tool to bring players together in an easy way. I once suggested that players could join one of the AI-fleets and then have the opportunity to engage other AI fleets when they collide on trade routes etc...

[fox2run]

Its not misguided whining when most people dont stick around for more than a week anymore.

And you act that hiding in ports, decoy ships, and countergank doesnt happen anymore...funny because thats the only PvP you see with a 2 minute timer.

The 2 minute timer gives all the advantage to the attacker. It makes it impossible to act defensively, or to coordinate with nearby teamates, because you can be in sight of your friend and still not be able to join the battle.

Approaching a freetown, gankers are hiding. You cant see them because theyre all in port. A basic cutter pops out and spots you. Since you probably already swept the port for enemies, youre now scanning larboard/starboard/aft. Suddenly you notice the countown or you find yourself in combat. There are 5 enemy ships against your 1. Your 3-4 friends who are ported up waiting for you are unable to help at all even tho they spawned from the port less than a minute after your enemies.

That scenario is moat of the PvP i see nowadays. Entirely unavoidable, because its impossible to know the enemy is there until it is too late to run. You have seen 0 enemy movement all night so there is no reason to suspect enemies are around.

Thing is, they are around. Invisible. Hiding in ports, or in OP's case, behind headlands in narrow passages, that are just as impossible to avoid. And no one can help.

The rabid 2 minute timer types say its unrealistic to be able to reinforce a battle that in real life would last hours, because they argue, with time dialation tbe battle would probably be over. They argue that it takes time to send a ship to sea (no, actually, wartime boats could leave harbor quite quickly). At the same time, they instantaneously jump out of port at the perfect instant to snare someone, that in real life, could have seen them. Or they hide behind headlands that, in real life, were not nearly as good a place to hide and use time dialation to their advantage to snag ships before they can turn around

And they say their preferred, easymode, farmville, basically PvE playstyle is more realistic....maybe they dont realize that their arguments suck? That cant be tho, ive destroyed them time and time again.

People used to work together. People used to respond to calls for help. Now, pwople dont. Why bother? Social perk doesnt change anything because no one knows if the guy who was tagged has it or not

We went from having ridiculous amounts of PvP (averaging 10 fights in 4 hours or less) with the 5 minute timer, to PvP being a rarity.

(1 fight where people dont run, A WEEK, if I am lucky)

This is all due to player psychology. Players will not stay and fight in a battle they feel cant be won

PLayers DID stay and fight with the old system, because people would tell them to hold on, and people would try to show up. Sometimes they got there in time, sometimes they didnt. But instead of an hour long chase, you got a 20 minute firefight.

Yet this 5 minute timer was bad because you couldnt attack people in front of freeports and capitals without getting swarmed. So the carebears moaned and complained until they got their 2 minute timer, which enables them to be toxic players with no repercussions.

 

Spot on!!

[fox2run]

Im in with æthelstand 100% 

 

The game was at least 4 times more fun before the introduction of 2 min timers. I promise you! It was! 

 

In the short life-time of the social perk I had a moment of the same old fun again... Large furball-battles with reinforcements and a good fight to the end. Those pesky pirates met some resistance and for once it was not a 20 vs 1 fight but a 20 vs 20 fight...

 

Now we are back to luring pirates that are looking for a gank outside the towns. What is the fun in that?

 

Its not fun and right now the product is weak compared to good old times... If I had any money invested in this product, I would risk to loose the 2 min player base (maybe 10%) and expand the market and the product by making it more FUN!!!

[Destraex]

The 2 minute timer prevents people from the entire region from joining the battle.  What you want is to pile on a smaller group with a larger group.  That smaller group was cohesive, sailing close together, and found a potential target that they thought they could fight.  You want to tell them "thanks for trying, but since we have 50 people over the horizon where you can't see them, you get to fight 25 on 3."  

 

Again, if you want to fight with a group, sail with that group.  If you don't want to be by yourself facing a larger force, sail with a larger force.  The 2 minute timer fully enables you to scan the horizon when you, as a single ship, spot an enemy and evaluate the risk of sticking around and fighting that enemy.  If I'm in a Frigate, and I spy another ship, I don't have to think "hmm...how many hundreds of people are in this area that I can't see, have no way of seeing, and have no way of knowing if they're there or not". I can scan, see that I'm alone (or see some other enemies nearby), and evaluate if I want to attack or try to flee.  5 or 10 minute timers don't allow this - see Prater's earlier threads on how far away you can be on a 5 minute timer - the answer is multiple islands away.

 

I honestly don't know what game you played for 1400 hours, and I have no idea where you're coming from that a longer timer benefits smaller groups of players, because neither assertion is even remotely true.

Henry how is "25 on 3" true with the equal BR limit admin is proposing (I prefer equal numbers of ships personally). You cannot be outnumbered and in fact probably still have an advantage, especially since the battle is already underway and you have the opportunity to finish off your target before help arrives? I would also say you have an advantage in that the helpers will come in in penny packets un-coordinated and probably less experienced captains.

All this does is give ships that hear the cannon fire or hear about it from semaphore or other ships coming past and reporting it a chance to come and assist. If you are in sight of land you would have been tracked from the shore line for hours already in reality.

[Æthlstan]

The 2 minute timer prevents people from the entire region from joining the battle. What you want is to pile on a smaller group with a larger group. That smaller group was cohesive, sailing close together, and found a potential target that they thought they could fight. You want to tell them "thanks for trying, but since we have 50 people over the horizon where you can't see them, you get to fight 25 on 3."

Again, if you want to fight with a group, sail with that group. If you don't want to be by yourself facing a larger force, sail with a larger force. The 2 minute timer fully enables you to scan the horizon when you, as a single ship, spot an enemy and evaluate the risk of sticking around and fighting that enemy. If I'm in a Frigate, and I spy another ship, I don't have to think "hmm...how many hundreds of people are in this area that I can't see, have no way of seeing, and have no way of knowing if they're there or not". I can scan, see that I'm alone (or see some other enemies nearby), and evaluate if I want to attack or try to flee. 5 or 10 minute timers don't allow this - see Prater's earlier threads on how far away you can be on a 5 minute timer - the answer is multiple islands away.

I honestly don't know what game you played for 1400 hours, and I have no idea where you're coming from that a longer timer benefits smaller groups of players, because neither assertion is even remotely true.

Your assertions and expectations are entirely false.

Nobody engages in equal PvP anymore. You go looking for an even size group to fight, and they run away. Probably only about 10% of the current server regulars actually seek out evenish fights, and are OK with slightly bad odd.a

The overwhelming majority run whe they dont have a significant advantage.

The 2 minute timer is terrible because of human behavior and human psychology. Its terrible because no one actually uses it in the idealistic fashion you describe.

Its unrealistic because your friends sailing around you cannot join you unless you are in a tight group with them.

Its terrible because it has destroyed the spirit of teamwork that infected this game in its early months in EA.

Its unrealistic because people can leave port in an instant and jump a guy, but his friend who leaves immediately after to help cannot join the fight "because it would take too long to launch his ship"

Then how in the hell did the attackers launch their damn ships so fast?

If you think this is good gameplay, you're delusional

If you think 1 hour chases are good gameplay, you're delusional

If you think that people should be able to operate without interference near major ports, you are delusional

If you think small guys and small nations benefit from the 2 minute timer, youre delusional.

If you think the large and frequent fights we had with the 5 minute timers was bad gameplay, you're delusional

If you think we have anything near the frequency, epicness, and scale of battles we had during the 5 minute timer today, with this broken system, youre delusional.

If you think the current broken timer system isnt the main reaaon for player loss, you are delusional.

Its all right there for everyone to see.

Anyone who thinks a timer based combat system is a good one, is also delusional.

Many people, including the devs, have come up with potential ideas for a combat system that can actually work.

I am a little biased, but I think the one I reposted on this thread is best.

[Hethwill]

Human nature.... *sigh*

 

The 2 minute timer were introduced for reasons that are intimately tied to combat and nothing to do with carebearing. I have no clue how you come to that conclusion but a hint is that you didn't have the opportunity to test, yes test, all the ganking strategies that Skully promptly posted. With a increased timer, as we had, we could do all of that with the power of being invisible.

 

C'mon guys, you surely can think outside of your and my comfort zones.

 

Let's start simple and think about a nice RoE. Rules to join any ongoing battle must be:

 

- A ship MUST be out at sea aka. being actively patroling, searching, raiding, etc. Sitting at port means the ship and crew are not at the ready for sea. Sitting outside the port is perfect. The ship is at station. Keyword here is VISIBILITY, real presence in the OW and not on port screen.

 

- Ships joining ongoing battle spawn at horizon aka. point where it would be credible to see the battle in the distance.

 

Simple.

 

Now, bring on your Socialize with those 2 rules in effect and it becomes a fair deal.

[Vernon Merrill]

Riiiiiiiight. It's "delusional" to think that you should fight what's in visible range instead of every try-hard that sits in port crafting mods for ships they are afraid to lose until their buddy screams for help.

Got it.

[dumpert]

i have no problems finding a 1v1 fight now. and it was like 9 of 10 battles were 1 vs 6-15 during that social thing.

 

what am i doing wrong?

[z4ys]

sarcasm on - why not introduce a interface that allwos to join OW battles through the port interface Oh wait lets ditch the hole OW thing - sarcasm off

Edited September 14, 2016 by z4ys

[Teutonic]

I have liked what Hethwill proposes, but i wish it wasn't a perk...rather the real mechanic of battles.

His earlier call on having 2 circles, one for tag and the other for all surrounding ships and then the battle is closed. It may seem extreme. But if battles are not going to have increase time to join them to help close friends or bolster defense of a sole trader. Then don't have it open at all when the battle starts.

The 2 minute timer is bull, I'd rather there be no timer and battle closed as it starts. At least you understand no more help would come then what you have in the battle.

[Herpaderp64]

No offense but you went sailing around on a second rate, or any SoL, by yourself and expected not to get jumped?

 

I find that it is sad that you thought it was a good idea to start with.   I had a Buce, I sold it the next day because I don't use slow ships.   Which pretty much removed all of the 3rd rate and higher tier ships.   Do you know how often I lose a Trinc, Essex, or Pickle to a player?   I haven't yet.  

 

Do you know how many ships I have captured with those ships?   20-30 at this point.  

 

Many of which are smaller than the ship I am in... except the Pickle, many cases they are bigger. (trader snows, trader brig, and 1 LGV)

 

I don't get it, why do people feel the need to sail around in the biggest thing they own and then cry when they lose it.

 

There is a saying in most PVP MMOs, don't risk what you cant afford to replace.

sorry to burst your bubble m8 but i can afford to replace the buc so i can afford to risk it and no its not the biggest thing i own. 

sure the buc isn't the fastest but for a big ship that thing can turn quick (with the right upgrades of course like turning trim for example). I prefer the buc over the bellona as it has the firepower of the vic and twice the speed and maneuverability

and i don't care how many times you lost a ship/didn't this isn't about that, This is about the fact that the join timer may be too short now.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Herpaderp64