[PvP1] Spain Defence against USA agression

[CeltiberoCaesar]

You good sir are the ones that are the offenders. I sent you a PM on these forums the second I heard that Gaiza stepped down and you were stepping up in national diplomacy. I never heard back from you and this was before your declaration of "agreement" with the pirates. You ignored us instead of engaging us.

 

Secondly, the US and the Spanish council have had a long standing agreement that goes back to the beginning of your war with the Brits. That agreement included a port ownership and territorial arrangement that you violated the moment you set foot in west Florida. That at the time was not a concern for us since we would rather you have had it for a time then the pirates. But either way it was a violation of the treaty and an act of war in itself.

 

On top of that you claim territory on the east coast of Florida which at this point can't be seen as anything other than aggressive so don't give me this BS about us declaring war on you.

 

We also are quite aware that you didn't declare war on us in your statement of agreement with the rats so that you could spin any war on us when we took Florida back after the pirate withdraw.

 

We have been nothing but honorable with you since we made that agreement and the Spanish Council knows it. You know it. You violate a treaty, you agree with rats to fight us if we move south of Cabo and you stab in the back the one country that has been trustworthy with you from the beginning of the game.

 

I'm sad to see the Spanish betraying their only friend. Don't kid yourself into thinking that you have made a friend in that pirate clan you sold your soul to. You simply saved yourself from being the next target in hopes of gaining some land and vengeance against the Brits who whooped you. Its a pity to be sure.

 

The Spanish are as untrustworthy as the Brits whom they claim stabbed them in the back.

 

This is a game of course and at times friends may choose to be enemies to find a little content but that is not what is happening. You chose an agreement with the rats for your own end and that agreement was to betray your one friend in the area that had potential long term. That can be described as nothing other than "backstabbing."

Just a long text to say "I wanted to attack you and the better way to take advantages of the situation was to stab you". 

[GrapeShot]

This simple minded liar was off damage farming himself and his alts to rear admiral most of that time. He took part in quite a few near the end but led only a handful of them and didn't have a good success rate neither.

 

Yup. I also remember his STARS group, while still alleging to be a US clan, stabbing us in the back several times by claiming he would defend a port and then never showing up to do it. I said good riddance to him the day he predictably turned pirate. I'm glad he and his toxic attitude are off poisoning somebody else.

Edited May 28, 2016 by GrapeShot

[Nic507]

Just a long text to say "I wanted to attack you and the better way to take advantages of the situation was to stab you". 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2016 by Nic507

[Johny Reb]

Mr cabra:

 

Us atack now? yes or not????? We atack no??? a few months ago, when you take ours undefended ports, we atack or you?? plz remember before speak,

We have the same honor or more than gringos.

How many ports you steal us, undefended?, without timers? at earlys hours when all spain sleeping.  This is US Honour?? Maybe you are more pirates than actual pirate nation.

And how i said, you only option its atack a litle nation, because you do nothing against black flag.

At the very beginning we attempted to negotiate with the Spanish nation through RAE the power clan in the nation at the time. We were told to essentially go to hell. That led to a legitimate war in which we conquered Spanish lands for ourselves.

 

Today we have a totally different situation. One in which we had an agreed upon boundary that the Spanish wouldn't transgress North and the US wouldn't transgress South. We honored this agreement while the Spanish broke it.

 

If we are to compare honor. The Spanish come up lacking.

 

That being said, I am happy to see that CeltiberoCeasar is fighting with honor nonetheless. He is willing to say GF in a loss and I believe he will say it in a win. Fights with the Spanish should be fun, whichever way it goes. He at least shows some character in that unlike our other opponent of late who has none.

 

I will chalk up these other statements as roll play. We all know whats going on here.

[Johny Reb]

What a regrettable event!!! Spain laments to be dragged once again into a war, with this treacherous act. 

USA is over reaching again and trying to expand its borders attacking a peaceful nation, like the genocide you committed with the native indians, like the war crimes you have committed all around the world.

 

But this bone is hard to chey, and your teeth will break again in the face of spanish resolution to defend what is ours. 

 

AND. Lord Vicious has shown to be a good and worthy friend. Mutual trust and respect are the foundations of our friendship. Unlike other allies the USA has, Spain is always there for its allies.

 

Don Sancho Navarro, Capitan de Fragata

Was he a good friend when, against the agreement you had with the pirate coalition to take back Matanzas, Vicious threatened to take all your ports down to Havana if you resisted his use of that port?

 

How much help will he give you when someone else pays for him to go attack the Dutch or someone else?

 

I will call you cowards because you violate a treaty, attack the integrity of our nation and only do it because you think you have the might of the SORRY clan to bail you out when things go bad. You attack us at our weakest point and claim property that you couldn't take yourselves as your own. Your decisions will have long term consequences and will regret the day that you allied with cutthroats.

[Almirante Jimi]

Worthless words. Bring it in PB.

[Thonys]

the spanish are agressive themselves

 

they eve attack the dutch 

 

[EricKilla]

the spanish are agressive themselves

-snip-

The absolute worst time to take a screenshot; when the port conquest message covers up the important part of the picture.

[Alado]

 

_{the spanish are agressive themselves}

Oh my god, the spanish are barbarians, his wifes has beard  and by night eat babys. And now atack to dutch , i cant belelive,  any of this monster hurt your tulips?

 

Please...............................

[Alado]

I will call you cowards because you violate a treaty, attack the integrity of our nation and only do it because you think you have the might of the SORRY clan to bail you out when things go bad. You attack us at our weakest point and claim property that you couldn't take yourselves as your own. Your decisions will have long term consequences and will regret the day that you allied with cutthroats.

 

My dear Jonny, you speak many and very well. but You can said to us all as you want, you can justificate all as you want, all your excuses, but  you atack, its very simple.

[EricKilla]

My dear Jonny, you speak many and very well. but You can said to us all as you want, you can justificate all as you want, all your excuses, but  you atack, its very simple.

Sure, a group not representing the US Council attacked Cayo Vacas and lost. Just like a group not representing the Spanish Council attacked Manataca a few weeks back... and lost. Based on this, we should have declared war on you weeks ago.

[Potemkin]

Id be far more inclined to agree with helping the US if i hadn't been called a beaner like 50 times in the last 4 months by US players who with the exception of a few pre-EA players all talked boatloads of trash while ganking 5 on 1. When you factor in this experience for most Spanish players, peace between us seems justifiably unattainable whether we are winning or not. Myself and quite a few others have no particular love for the pirates but due in large part to the conduct of US players both in-game and on the forums they are the lesser of two evils in this situation. I hope this changes in the future.

[Horror]

Id be far more inclined to agree with helping the US if i hadn't been called a beaner like 50 times in the last 4 months by US players who with the exception of a few pre-EA players all talked boatloads of trash while ganking 5 on 1.

As I understand it. Those trash-talking US players are now Pirates

[Potemkin]

As I understand it. Those trash-talking US players are now Pirates

Some, yes. Many, no. Ive seen it from just about every major clan over there. It doesnt really affect me because im whiter than a paper plate in a snowstorm in january but i feel bad for alot of my friends who are actually Spanish. The part that really pisses me off about it though is that some of the same people who say that shit end up preaching about toxic gameplay and whining about all the terrible things SORRY says.

[Johny Reb]

Well, I can only speak to my honor, the honor of my clan and the honor of the council which I have represented.

 

 

About honor, honesty and courage:

-You wanted to be our ally, even knowing that we were friends of the british, we send you to the hell.

-You took ports near our capital as a form of punishment to teach us a lesson, we send you to the hell.

-Despite being betrayed by the British, we send you to the hell.

-When we had nothing (despite all odds), we send you to the hell.

-We are those who will continue to fight true to what they believe, even if we have only the capital and frigates. This is honor and courage for us.

- Your relationship with the Brits was inconsequential to us. In our attempt to negotiate with your group we never made any demands about that relationship. We were simply interested in being partners since we shared a common border that would benefit both nations. You would have known that if your group possessed the ability to engage in conversation instead of just saying "we send you to the hell." The Spanish have suffered for your lack of diplomacy from the beginning.

- We never took any of your ports on Cuba out of punishment. We took them initially in order to hopefully convince you that peace was better than war between our two countries. After every conquest, before them and after them, we continued to offer a negotiated peace. We never demanded your surrender, expected tribute, or asked any of your leadership to step down. We always held out the olive branch. Your response is "go to hell". Thats not revenge, that's not repaying us for the evil we did. That was your very FIRST encounter with us.

  You wanted war and not peace because your British overseers had it out for us and told you that you must attack us. Now you have traded that subjugation to a worse group of players. Its seems to me that you are not happy unless you are doing someone else's bidding. You should at least charge money for your servitude instead of choosing slavery.

- I have heard two stories about your war with the Brits. I have never been sure which story to believe. You claim treachery on their part and they claim it was you. Based on your recent decisions I think the Brit story is more likely to be accurate.

- You lack courage because you feed off the scraps of another's victory. You lack courage because out of fear of that Victor, you did not want your nation to get rolled again in spite of you claiming that you fight till the end. You lack courage because you sign on to an alliance with rats that includes fighting us if we go south of Cabo Canaveral and hide that agreement so that you can blame others for the consequences. Now, I think most of the Spanish in fact have courage. I think most Spanish are not happy about the deal made. I think there are very honorable and courageous Spanish Capitans sailing under your colors and I think most Spanish know that your group has caused the Spanish nation to bend over multiple times. I think most Spanish realize that you have turned their nation into everything the Spanish have claimed to be fighting against. Bravo!

About friendship and loyalty:

-Friendship and respect are not won with arrogance and shows of strength.

-Frienship is a valuable thing that can not be imposed, it must be earned.

-When the French community was having a bad time we offered a hand. We share a port for months and we became friends.

-We have been friends of the French for a year. On numerous occasions we have been offered treaties, peace agreements,... We have always said: "NO without our French friends".

This is the meaning of loyalty for us. (And it could have been exactly the same with the English).

- We have constantly held out the olive branch. We have constantly pursued friendship. We have honored our agreements with you without fail. We have been trustworthy, and even in war we backed off as soon as we saw it was hurting your player base. In my book, that is how friendship is won.

Now here is how it is lost.... Being untrustworthy, breaking treaties, false accusations, taking advantage of the others misfortunes.

- "We share a port for months and we became friends."  -  hmmm... I remember prior to steam release when everyone was in Plymouth with their free Sanits our nations doing much the same thing. Yet we are told to 'go to hell" the second steam releases NA. Don't give me your sorry excuse and reasons for how friends are made.

- "This is the meaning of loyalty for us. (And it could have been exactly the same with the English)." (And it could have been exactly the same with the Americans)

 

-When the pirates destroyed you (yes, they did although you still deny) we saw an opportunity to give back what you deserve.

Agains, Capitan Sanchez... You are better than this. You can come up with your own talking points without repeating the stupidity that comes out of the mouth of Vicious. If we are at war then so be it but don't be the lapdog of LV in both alliance and tongue. Show me one place where I have denied that the pirates have beaten us? Can't can you? I have respect for you Mr. Sanchez lets keep it that way. Find your own slogans and use some truth if you cause is so righteous.

Revenge is not a becoming quality in a gentleman.

 

""Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written; 'It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord." Romans 12:19

[Johny Reb]

Well, I have no contact or relationship, either good or bad with the French. I congratulate you on your relationship with them. Its immaterial to our current situation other than to claim that you in fact know how to be good friends with someone. I don't judge your ability to be loyal or friends based off of your relationship with another. I judge it by how you interact with me. For that you have shown to be untrustworthy and all the other things I said above.

 

I don't speak of loyalty with you. We were not allies. You had no obligation to be loyal. We had a friendly relationship that was being used to build trust to open the doors for future possible tighter relationships with your nation. I heard multiple times by Spanish players that we were moving in a positive direction and that we had held to our word, were open with your diplomats, and were understanding when your war with Britain led to a breech of our agreement. I don't accuse you of disloyalty. I accuse you of not being trustworthy.

 

I'm not calling you or any other Spanish player evil Capitan. I think you are anything but evil. That being said I am calling you out on your decisions and what that means to the Spanish player base in general. It makes a lot of honorable and reasonable Spanish players look the opposite.

 

So, what happens next? You push us towards an alliance with the Brits post wipe,leaving you in the middle, begging the most toxic players in the game to come join you after they nerf the pirates to try to keep the two nations at bay?

 

I know that many of the Spanish feel the politics of the current game is what it is. They will play out the game as it has developed with the hope of starting with a clean slate at the wipe. What makes you think your actions don't effect the willingness of other nations to wipe the slate clean and start anew?

[EricKilla]

About honor, honesty and courage:

-You wanted to be our ally, even knowing that we were friends of the british, we send you to the hell.

-You took ports near our capital as a form of punishment to teach us a lesson, we send you to the hell.

-Despite being betrayed by the British, we send you to the hell.

-When we had nothing (despite all odds), we send you to the hell.

-When the spanish council negotiated with you, we send the council to the hell.

-There was a philoamerican diplomatic, we send him to the hell.

-We are those who will continue to fight true to what they believe, even if we have only the capital and frigates. This is honor and courage for us.

 

About friendship and loyalty:

-Friendship and respect are not won with arrogance and shows of strength.

-Frienship is a valuable thing that can not be imposed, it must be earned.

-When the French community was having a bad time we offered a hand. We share a port for months and we became friends.

-We have been friends of the French for a year. On numerous occasions we have been offered treaties, peace agreements,... We have always said: "NO without our French friends".

This is the meaning of loyalty for us. (And it could have been exactly the same with the English).

 

Revenge:

-An essential part of Spanish character. It must be paid for mistakes. And you screwed up with the wrong people.

-You took our ports at night like a burglar and you came here to explain that it was our fault of course.

-You spent weeks with arrogant and disparaging comments in the forum about our nation and our base players.

-Even today you live in an imaginary bubble in which everything that goes wrong is the fault of others and everything good is your merit.

-When the pirates destroyed you (yes, they did although you still deny) we saw an opportunity to give back what you deserve.

 

So Mr. Johnny Reb, the weed of infamy bears bitter fruit. Enjoy them.

Alright, so I will preface this with a disclaimer that I have only been playing this game for about three months, and I only came over from PvP2 about two months ago. As such, I have little knowledge of the interactions between the US and Spain back before I came over. However, from the time I have been playing this game, with the exception of FORGE and UMAD, I have seen no large group of Americans wish to wage war on the Spain. On our side, there is no animosity. We have honored our agreements. Sure, at times players may have moved south to gank random Spanish players on the coast of Cuba, but frankly everyone ganks everyone. I've seen GB players ganking US traders outside of Sunbury before, so we can't be really held politically accountable for that as, well, as a council we have no right to tell people what to do, and even if we did we'd never have the means to enforce that on individual players. So let us rule that out.

 

You mention us capturing ports at night when you were not online. When? Where? Why were the port timers set to a time that was disadvantageous to you? Save for the attack on Cayo Vacas, an attack on a previously held US port until just a few weeks ago, we have not attacked you once in months real time. Yet, there have been numerous incidents where Spanish clans have attacked us. Despite this, in the interest of upholding our agreements and preserving the token amount of trust that had been generated between the Spanish and American councils, we let the attacks slide. We forgave you for them. We did not threaten you with show of force and did not batter you with arrogance. We showed you forgiveness and exhibited restraint. We stand true to our allies. When SORRY told us to annul our treaties with Britain, we said no, even when we were pushed back to Charleston and a few token ports north, we still said no. We would have been honored to welcome Spain into the same alliance, and we would have been proud to exhibit the same loyalty to you. If offering restraint and forgiveness when attacked, and honoring our agreements, which we still consider to be active and in place, even to this day, is not enough to earn your friendship, then what is? Please tell me, what would we have to do to earn Spain's friendship and trust.

 

Now, I will concede that, yes, FORGE and UMAD did pull flags and did capture territory, but as previously mentioned, they were rogue clans at the time. They disagreed with the Council... vehemently so. If you ask me, they were significantly closer to the British Council than the US Council, to the point I had to ask them why they just didn't roll Britain. They disliked us near to as much as SORRY in the end. Either way, FORGE and UMAD are now a moot point; FORGE rolled pirate a week ago and UMAD is inactive and dead. The last  bastion of opposition against you has disappeared, yet you still cite revenge.

 

Not only that, but you talk of us coming on the forums with "arrogant and disparaging comments" yet you are guilty of the same. Who was it that started the "USA is dead (pvp1)" Thread? It was you. Not only that, but you consort and fraternize with the most toxic players in the game. Everyone that I know has refrained from, until this thread, really commenting about Spain at all. Before your agreement with the pirates you weren't even a blip on our radar screen. We had no beef with you, and would have rather been your friend. Yet, simultaneously, we have somehow incited your wrath.

 

So, pray tell, when did we do these acts that you accuse us of. When did we take your ports in the night like a burglar (when you foolishly set the port timers to a time that would have facilitated us to do so in the first place)? When does forum trolling play into in-game diplomacy?

 

We acknowledge our defeat against the pirate. We acknowledge that they destroy us. We merely refused to surrender to their terms and be treated like a dog on a leash. It is worthy to note that Spain has adopted the same stance against the British. We are those who will continue to fight true for what we believe in, even if we only have our capital and frigates, which was the situation we found ourselves in not long ago. This is honor and courage for us.

 

So, in means to take revenge against perceived grievances, you attacked a target of opportunity that considered you a friend. You back-stabbed us, yet you still talk about honor and courage.

 

The weed of infamy bears bitter fruit. Soon you will taste it.

Edited May 29, 2016 by EricKilla

[EricKilla]

I don´t know what will happen after wipe. Experience has shown us that many are willing to forget the word given at an earlier stage.

When a suitable political system is implemented I will respect what my nation decide and I will put the same effort whether I like it or not.

I do not care what other nations will do and I'm not worried at war against one or against five nations.

Whatever happens I will keep showing respect to the respectful player and disdaining to insulting others without noticing their flag. But never beg.

I, too, am looking forward to the port wipe. It will be interesting to see what the political situation morphs into.

Edited May 29, 2016 by EricKilla

[EricKilla]

My previous message was a response to Johnny Reb, this is for EricKilla. You are obviously a candid soul and I respect it.

First of all when the game started it did not allow us to set the timers of our ports at our own convenience.

Second (but most important of all) about "USA is dead? (pvp1)", please consider do some readings that I will propose you.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11911-spain-is-dead-pvp1/

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/10533-defeating-a-nation/page-9

You will find them enlightening about verbal abuse and harrassment over a nation and their player base. You will find very juicy comments and lessons.

There are other threads but I have no patience to watch them again.

I feel that it is worthy of nothing that it has been nearly three months since that thread was posted. Not only that, but, A, the vast majority of the posters on that thread are British, and, B, the majority of those who were American are not active or have re-rolled.

 

The majority of the old guard of America is gone. I think you should stop judging us by things that are outdated and irrelevant and start judging us on our current actions.

[EricKilla]

As I have said repeatedly I do not judge anyone and I am always willing to treat with respect the respectful player (including pirates).

I value my free time and look for fun playing Naval Action. I understand that someone is doing the same on the other side of the screen.

I offer respect and I demand the same, that is all.

They you should understand that my motivations are not roleplaying, they're not even gameplay based. My clan has a lot of production in the West Coast of Florida. When it was taken from us, we lost a third of our players within the week, most to simple inactivity. I need to expand over here to help keep my playerbase up so we can still fight and not just get rolled by a small frigate fleet. As I said earlier in this thread, I don't have a choice in the matter. I have to push in order to get people to stay with us.

[Johny Reb]

My previous message was a response to Johnny Reb, this is for EricKilla. You are obviously a candid soul and I respect it.

First of all when the game started it did not allow us to set the timers of our ports at our own convenience.

EricKilla...

I believe the night flipping he is referring to is our initial push into the gulf in the first weeks of the map in January. At that point all the ports that a nation started with had no timers on them and no way to set them. These ports were sitting ducks for any nation that didn't have a multi-national group of players to defend all time zones. The Spanish at the time were loosing ports everywhere and even to their own "allies" at the time. They had so many ports across the map that it was simply impossible to defend them all. The Danes took Puerto Rico, the pirates ports on Hispanola, the Brits south of Conttoy to Portobello area and the US, the coast of Florida and the Gulf to Aransas.

The Spanish took, "night flipping" to be cowardly and they were shedding players left and right to other nation, especially the pirates. We saw it as simply attacking ports when we were online.

The defense to this is that we immediately, at the start of the map, requested an audience with RAE (the largest most powerful clan in their nation at the time) to discuss an agreement about ports that would avoid war. I have already shared what the response was. They chose a war that they could not win. We should not be blamed for waging that war.

[Nic507]

We saw it as simply attacking ports when we were online.

This right here. Sorry we america's have to play on the European server and can't be on in the middle of the day. Sorry most of us have a thing called a job. The Spanish are so right, we should just drop all our occupations just to make port battles more convenient for them.

[Don Sancho Navarro]

Dear Spain,

You coluded with our enemies, as our nation burned to the Pirate scourge. You ate scraps from their table and relished in our demise. You openly mocked us in the forums, you will burn with the black. Our cannons will strike hard and true, our actions will be fierce and unrelenting. There will be no quater for the traitors of civilised men, you reap what you sow. And sow you have.

Regards

Captain saintjacktar

USS BANSHEE

Australian Flotilla

Tattered Flags

 

Sir.

 

You keep on threatening with our demise. Let´s see if your cannons have the same calibre as your words.

I hope we meet in battle. So far all I have seen is empty threats and the backs of US ships fleeing from Spanish ships.

 

Some fun action in front of Havana, thank you for providing  entertainment and some worthy targets.

 

Don Sancho Navarro. Captán de Navío

[Don Sancho Navarro]

Was he a good friend when, against the agreement you had with the pirate coalition to take back Matanzas, Vicious threatened to take all your ports down to Havana if you resisted his use of that port?

 

How much help will he give you when someone else pays for him to go attack the Dutch or someone else?

 

I will call you cowards because you violate a treaty, attack the integrity of our nation and only do it because you think you have the might of the SORRY clan to bail you out when things go bad. You attack us at our weakest point and claim property that you couldn't take yourselves as your own. Your decisions will have long term consequences and will regret the day that you allied with cutthroats.

 

Dear Mr. Reb.

 

I don´t know what happened when I was not even playing this game. I´m talking about the situation NOW. And the current situation is that the Pirates are behaving more honourably than your wretched, self righteous anglo-saxon nations. Honour is earned. It does not come with a nationality or a flag. It´s each player that has to demonstrate its nature, and honour that flag. And so far, the US and the British have not demonstrated the high standards you so often demand from other nations.

 

You can call us cowards and accuse us of the same dishonourable behaviour you have so often practised. All I can say is, as the Romans put it "Qui gladio ferit, gladio perit". I understand that you and your British masters were not romanised, so I will translate for your convenience: "He who lives by the sword, will die by the sword".

 

Stop giving us morale lessons, we know who we are dealing with, and are well aware that our actions have consequences. You should have considered the consequences before you tried to annihilate and humiliate Spain. It´s reckoning and retribution time. You believe on your moral superiority. Demonstrate it in the game. The more US players I´m able to shoot, the faster I will advance in grade.

 

Yours, sincerely.

 

Don Sancho Navarro, Capitán de Navío.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Don Sancho Navarro

[CeltiberoCaesar]

Duplicated. Please delete it

Edited May 30, 2016 by CeltiberoCaesar