[PvP1] Spain Defence against USA agression

[Eldberg]

This is what really gets me... We had an agreement with the Spanish Council. Borders are established, lines are drawn and respected. Open world PVP combat only, everything was fine.

Spain sits back and watches as the Pirates take US ports, They then say "We no longer respect our agreement with the US", and charge in to take the ports captured by Mario and his Toadstools. Some clans from the US then start taking back ports that were lost and Spain says "Hey, stop attacking our ports that we took from the pirates that they took from you that we agreed were yours!" And the US are the aggressors? My suggestion is that you depart hastily in the direction of shove, and off (I would love to use more colourful words here).

Spanish players have been crying for so long about how people keep stabbing them in the back. The US never has, and never will stab a mutual partner in the back. The Spanish nation has just lost one of their few neighbours that were actively looking out for them (as you full know from our discussion).

Edited June 1, 2016 by Stephen_Decatur

[Leviathan]

TDA  and TF dead, Most members of these clans, and other constituents of the american council have since departed these waters. If there are individual clans that there are issues with, consult with these clans individually. Stop holding the nation, a very general and easy distinction, accountable for the actions of a few.

 

Idgaf about the nation, only the players in it. 

Sorry to disappoint mate but TDA is alive and doing fine so you can stop with the blatant lying. It makes you look petty.

[Johny Reb]

The one you attacked before we declare war in public. I dont recall if it was tortugas or bacas.

Np, I neither know who belong to you council.

Thats why I dont get why you didnt try to contact us before all this mesh.

Indeed, the defensive pact was there so we can keep what we had. Those "agreed" borders were something they (SORRY) and we knew and they didnt include all of our ports nor theirs... but thats something too late to talk about.

I must have expressed myself really bad. You are the agreessor, you are who will have to compensate us. The treaty you said we had (which one?!) 1 would be broken once you attack us. So... the starting point might be the current situation, west florida included... then you will have to suggest something else to keep our captains out of your ports.

1. So you are ignorant of the treaty made with Spain (the only treaty ever made with Spain), yet you argue as if you didn't break a treaty and therefore we are the aggressors???  Thanks for wasting my time. Please go do some research, reform your opinions according to what you learn and then maybe we can talk again.

[CeltiberoCaesar]

1. So you are ignorant of the treaty made with Spain (the only treaty ever made with Spain), yet you argue as if you didn't break a treaty and therefore we are the aggressors???  Thanks for wasting my time. Please go do some research, reform your opinions according to what you learn and then maybe we can talk again.

Ein?! It's quite simple, who attacked the other one port without even a proper diplomats contact ? Stop hiding that you wanted to attack and you took the chance you got... that simple. Don't over-react. 

Edited June 1, 2016 by CeltiberoCaesar

[Alado]

jhony reb , atack again, Caesar, plz dont waste more saliva. If he said that snow its black, its black and no more.

[Johny Reb]

At least I use logic and reasonable arguments. Your inability to overcome my arguments with your own arguments does not make me a "know it all." Alado. The fact that you respond with that subtle insult proves my point.

 

I have two former diplomats of the Spanish Council that have validated, to a point at least, what I have said. I'm pretty confident but I'm not arrogant about it. I just want you to stop trying to spin this as aggression against you when you all know that you made the first move. Your choice was made before we had any chance to talk as CeltiberoCaesar criticizes me for not doing. When you did go public it was to say that "we have your ports and we don't plan on letting you have them back."

 

I hope that answers some of your questions as well Caesar. And by the way, what makes you think I didn't have any contact? But it matters not. Your decision at that point was made. You know it and I know it so others may accept your arguments because they don't know better but you can't pass that one off on me.

 

Now this thread is getting redundant. Maybe we should get back to role playing by over the top saber rattling. I will begin....

 

You want a fight you dirty Dons. Stay where you are, we will come to you. We shall meet you in Havana sinking every ship found on the way. When we reach your capital we will set your ships hiding in port on fire. They will burn quickly because of all the excrement on board.

We will roast marshmallows in their embers, sing songs of an easy victory, make love to your women who finally have the chance to be with real heroes who know how to bath, and we will fart in your general direction. Run, we are coming.

[Alado]

sorry if you believe that i insult you no in my mind.

 

 

real heroes who know how to bath

congratulations , really i need go to US to learn that    when your wife said that to me ,  i cant believe it

 

make love to your women

 

my wife read this  ..................... and she go running to shop to buy Viagra if you need  ..... sorry in shop dont know what its viagra 

 

We will roast marshmallows in their embers

Know to go bath, marshmallows and sing sons.............................................        your wives will be happy seeing you march  maybe she needs dirty men.

 

 

They will burn quickly because of all the excrement on board.

You have all reason, we are so dirtys

 

 we will fart in your general direction

noooo, plzz noo fart nooo, if you do that you are more dirty than us., and remember you know go to bath.

 

 

Run, we are coming.

Come

 

 

 

Im waiting your surrender in habana beach. We have a lot of bath we dont know how use.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Alado

[Johny Reb]

No offense taken Alado. I admit I sometimes have a hard time distinguishing between role play and actual arguments and opinions unless its done with accents.

 

I enjoyed your comebacks

[Teutonic]

A country on friendly terms with Pirates, is not a country worth talking to UNTIL they cut ties once again with Pirates. trust me, I would know .

[Armando Salazar]

As long as I can remember I spent my entire time in the Spanish Council meetings arguing about the fact that we don't have any true ally close to us. The pacts or alliances with big powers only result in disaster in the long way... When the US was attacked by the pirates and reduced to a few ports I was the only one (with the rest of my clan) who suggested to intervene in your conflict to help you. In my humble opinion, it's intolerable to let any nation be reduced to one single port because "X" reasons. We're all players who want to play and have a good time and this is a coward and filthy movement I must say. And well... I have nothing to say about the spanish actions in Florida, because their acts speak for themselves.

 

I'm one of the spanish captains that want an alliance with the US. In my opinion the true enemy of every nation in this game are the pirates. Just look at the map for God's sake...

 

"The Eternal War" against the british lost its purpose long ago. And this war against the US is a total mistake, or a marvellous victory... if your goal is to deny any possible ally close to our ports.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Vandrus Tallaferro

[Potemkin]

This is what really gets me... We had an agreement with the Spanish Council. Borders are established, lines are drawn and respected. Open world PVP combat only, everything was fine.

Spain sits back and watches as the Pirates take US ports, They then say "We no longer respect our agreement with the US", and charge in to take the ports captured by Mario and his Toadstools. Some clans from the US then start taking back ports that were lost and Spain says "Hey, stop attacking our ports that we took from the pirates that they took from you that we agreed were yours!" And the US are the aggressors? My suggestion is that you depart hastily in the direction of shove, and off (I would love to use more colourful words here).

Spanish players have been crying for so long about how people keep stabbing them in the back. The US never has, and never will stab a mutual partner in the back. The Spanish nation has just lost one of their few neighbours that were actively looking out for them (as you full know from our discussion).

Seen this before, might as well start re-positioning ships and prepping for total war with the US again because of a few people that like seeing green/yellow dots on the map. I welcome the pvp dont get me wrong but why does it always come with the infantile finger pointing from both sides. This whole thread was a waste of time because, as usual its the Spanish nation as a whole that is at fault, even those of us operating in different theaters of war. Time to mobilize.

[EricKilla]

Seen this before, might as well start re-positioning ships and prepping for total war with the US again because of a few people that like seeing green/yellow dots on the map. I welcome the pvp dont get me wrong but why does it always come with the infantile finger pointing from both sides. This whole thread was a waste of time because, as usual its the Spanish nation as a whole that is at fault, even those of us operating in different theaters of war. Time to mobilize.

I fairly disagree on your last point there.

[Potemkin]

The last part was an over-reaction for sure. I just wish the diplo patch would be able fix all the bad blood thats been simmering since january. RvR diplo is far too messed up as it currently stands to get anything meaningful done and maintain whatever agreements are founded. I guess im just frustrated because geographically the US and Spain could have been buddies. It could have been alot more fun. I do feel compelled to add that the ports on the west coast of florida were taken in a way very similar to the spanish ports in the Yucatan region capped by the British and then handed to the US around a month ago

Edited June 2, 2016 by Potemkin

[Johny Reb]

I hear you Potemkin but this is how the Yucatan actually went down. It was a difficult thing to manage for us because we were trying hard to keep our relationship with Spain and the relationships with the Brits intact during their war.

We originally had a border agreement with the Brits as well. They were not to move into the gulf at all. Being that they were at war with the Spanish it didn't seem tenable for us to deny them that war and still maintain the relationship with them especially since most Spanish ports were north of that border.

They, of course came to us to talk about their move into the gulf. We were offered the ports if we felt uncomfortable with their presence. We told them that we saw it as a violation of the agreement but with good cause. We couldn't expect them not to wage that war but we didn't want to be seen as being a part of it by excepting those ports from them. But we didn't want them in the gulf.

A tough situation to be sure. What we told them is that we didn't want the ports until the war was concluded or enough time had gone by for it not to be a problem. We still saw any long term presence by them as a violation of the agreement and although we wouldn't have gone to war over the southern gulf, it would have spoke to trust which we were testing with the agreement to begin with.

We also, planned when it came time to take the ports from the Brits to hand them back to the Spanish at the conclusion of the war or at least at a time that it would not appear that we were doing so to aid the war effort of Spain against the Brits. It was something that would have to be done in order to maintain trust with the Spanish because in our treaty, the Southern gulf belonged to them.

Now if you all remember, STARS used the British presence and our border agreements as justification to attack the Brits and grew by leaps and bounds because of it, giving content to a relatively quiet nation at the time. This served our purpose though. They weren't a part of the Council and all parties involved had a separate relationship with them as opposed to us. Their actions allowed the Brits to move back to our agreed upon borders without giving territory to Spain, and at the same time keeping the honor and agreements of the council intact.

Now, STARS left the US very shortly after that and the PvP2 rogue clans took their place and tried to settle in the ports taken by STARS. At that time, Gaizka came and talked to me about the southern gulf and informed me that the Spanish planned to take back those ports. I of course said go right ahead and that any aggression on the southern gulf ports against the us was their right according to the agreement and the council wouldn't think twice about it.

[EricKilla]

The last part was an over-reaction for sure. I just wish the diplo patch would be able fix all the bad blood thats been simmering since january. RvR diplo is far too messed up as it currently stands to get anything meaningful done and maintain whatever agreements are founded. I guess im just frustrated because geographically the US and Spain could have been buddies. It could have been alot more fun. I do feel compelled to add that the ports on the west coast of florida were taken in a way very similar to the spanish ports in the Yucatan region capped by the British and then handed to the US around a month ago

To be fair, no council clan has done anything over there in like three months. For a rogue clan, FORGE was definitely resourceful. They did all of that stuff.

Let it be known that I also would favor an alliance between us. It isn't too late.

Edited June 2, 2016 by EricKilla

[CeltiberoCaesar]

As I told Johny, I will leave the role playing discussion. Any official discussion should be made by the proper channels.

See you in the game, GL&HF all

Pd: you write too long post... I'm a science guy, thats too long for me to read, SORRY

Edited June 2, 2016 by CeltiberoCaesar

[Nic507]

Pd: you write too long post... I'm a science guy, thats too long for me to read, SORRY

 

Sir, how can you say this? Science papers are normally much longer and far more dry than any forum post here.

[Lord Vicious]

I hear you Potemkin but this is how the Yucatan actually went down. It was a difficult thing to manage for us because we were trying hard to keep our relationship with Spain and the relationships with the Brits intact during their war.

We originally had a border agreement with the Brits as well. They were not to move into the gulf at all. Being that they were at war with the Spanish it didn't seem tenable for us to deny them that war and still maintain the relationship with them especially since most Spanish ports were north of that border.

They, of course came to us to talk about their move into the gulf. We were offered the ports if we felt uncomfortable with their presence. We told them that we saw it as a violation of the agreement but with good cause. We couldn't expect them not to wage that war but we didn't want to be seen as being a part of it by excepting those ports from them. But we didn't want them in the gulf.

A tough situation to be sure. What we told them is that we didn't want the ports until the war was concluded or enough time had gone by for it not to be a problem. We still saw any long term presence by them as a violation of the agreement and although we wouldn't have gone to war over the southern gulf, it would have spoke to trust which we were testing with the agreement to begin with.

We also, planned when it came time to take the ports from the Brits to hand them back to the Spanish at the conclusion of the war or at least at a time that it would not appear that we were doing so to aid the war effort of Spain against the Brits. It was something that would have to be done in order to maintain trust with the Spanish because in our treaty, the Southern gulf belonged to them.

Now if you all remember, STARS used the British presence and our border agreements as justification to attack the Brits and grew by leaps and bounds because of it, giving content to a relatively quiet nation at the time. This served our purpose though. They weren't a part of the Council and all parties involved had a separate relationship with them as opposed to us. Their actions allowed the Brits to move back to our agreed upon borders without giving territory to Spain, and at the same time keeping the honor and agreements of the council intact.

Now, STARS left the US very shortly after that and the PvP2 rogue clans took their place and tried to settle in the ports taken by STARS. At that time, Gaizka came and talked to me about the southern gulf and informed me that the Spanish planned to take back those ports. I of course said go right ahead and that any aggression on the southern gulf ports against the us was their right according to the agreement and the council wouldn't think twice about it.

 

 

What a pile of bullshit

 

At that time i talk personally with Wang (and i have talk with him 5 min ago in ts3 )  wich is current leader of Ausez FC the  ozzy clan who was brit and now pirates and he confirmed me that was all agreed with the Usa council,  (so usa was completely fine with brits destrong spain , and just watch )

 

USA closed an eye when brit told them  that they where going to REMOVE THE SPANISH from the gulf, and then they will return the ports to USA,  wich they did not, thats why Stars attacked the gulf, becouse  britain refused to give the ports, and USA Council bend their knee instead demand it back.

 

YOu never gived a damn about spanish, and there never was  an idea to give such ports back to spanish, you let your brit masters take it with their promise to give the ports back and when they refused you just bend the knee (scared of brits power)  and accept it, thats when my clan step up and say, fuck this, how usa will get  respected if when another nation   broke an agreement a promise  we do nothing about it? and just passively accept our sudditance?  So we took the gulf back and you started call us traitors becouse unlike the council we do not bow.  After that we switched to pirates  

 

So your timing is completely false

 

USA say ok to british ask to remove spain from gulf

Brit promised to give gulf to usa

Brit remove spain from gulf and say to usa, sorry we not gonna give it

Stars step up, remove the brit from the gulf, the council rage at stars call us traitors etc, we keep going, after we finish the work we switch to pirates, becouse we not wanted to be part of a nation vassal of the brits with no balls to enforce an agreement. 

 

USA never cared to give anything to spain, they just gave theyr insurance to BRIT that they will do anything about if brit after give that ports to USA,  and brit using their stronger poisition  use  USA aquiescence for remove spain and then betray USA.  Council bend the knee and accept it.

 

And you where the guy behind this agreement with britain, if you want i can bring here WANG

and confirm all 

[CeltiberoCaesar]

Sir, how can you say this? Science papers are normally much longer and far more dry than any forum post here.

You're right, im just lazzy.... but science guy <> researcher... so no need to read those papers. But...you're right

[EricKilla]

What a pile of bullshit

At that time i talk personally with Wang (and i have talk with him 5 min ago in ts3 ) wich is current leader of Ausez FC the ozzy clan who was brit and now pirates and he confirmed me that was all agreed with the Usa council, (so usa was completely fine with brits destrong spain , and just watch )

USA closed an eye when brit told them that they where going to REMOVE THE SPANISH from the gulf, and then they will return the ports to USA, wich they did not, thats why Stars attacked the gulf, becouse britain refused to give the ports, and USA Council bend their knee instead demand it back.

YOu never gived a damn about spanish, and there never was an idea to give such ports back to spanish, you let your brit masters take it with their promise to give the ports back and when they refused you just bend the knee (scared of brits power) and accept it, thats when my clan step up and say, fuck this, how usa will get respected if when another nation broke an agreement a promise we do nothing about it? and just passively accept our sudditance? So we took the gulf back and you started call us traitors becouse unlike the council we do not bow. After that we switched to pirates

So your timing is completely false

USA say ok to british ask to remove spain from gulf

Brit promised to give gulf to usa

Brit remove spain from gulf and say to usa, sorry we not gonna give it

Stars step up, remove the brit from the gulf, the council rage at stars call us traitors etc, we keep going, after we finish the work we switch to pirates, becouse we not wanted to be part of a nation vassal of the brits with no balls to enforce an agreement.

USA never cared to give anything to spain, they just gave theyr insurance to BRIT that they will do anything about if brit after give that ports to USA, and brit using their stronger poisition use USA for remove spain and then betray USA. Council bend the knee and accept it.

And you where the guy behind this agreement with britain, if you want i can bring here WANG

and confirm all

Please bring him, with logs and proof we were involved in this random and pointless plan.

BTW, I only spoke with John and Dogs Bollocks. Frankly IDK who Wang even is.

[Lord Vicious]

Please bring him, with logs and proof we were involved in this random and pointless plan.

BTW, I only spoke with John and Dogs Bollocks. Frankly IDK who Wang even is.

Him fasti and john quilliam are the leadership of OZZY clan, who back at that time conquered the gulf of mexico, and planned to hold it or divide with usa, certainly not for help spanish 

 

At that point erick you not where even playng, is even before  sorry went pirate 

[Wang]

Ok here is my recollection of events.

 

Lets go way back.  Spain had the Yuctan, the U.S. was at war with Spain and took it off Spain.  They came into contact with Britain around tumbado and started taking British ports (Xpu Ha etc).  The British kicked the U.S. out of the Yuctan,  then War Broke out between Britain and Spain (lots of threads relating to that )  the Yuctan was taken by the Spanish then the British counter attacked and took the whole area.

 

The British were in talks at the time of what to do with the Yuctan with the U.S.  now the last thing Britain wanted while still at war with Spain was to hand back the newly attained ports back to the U.S. in case they handed them back to Spain.  So during this time new talks started with the U.S. trying to hand back the ports to the U.S. to hopefully gain the U.S. as a ally in the West.  The talks were to give the U.S. the Yuctan and split the ports between conttoy and mugeres to be controlled one port each between Britain and the U.S.  With the note that they not be handed back to Spain.  During these talks STARS started to take the ports in the gulf and Yuctan area, and we didnt mind at all due to wanting to hand them back to the U.S.  No one defended against the STARS aggression because we saw them fulfilling the talks we were having with the U.S. at the time.  

 

This was a very complicated time diplomatically with everyone and it was very complicated events.  All i can say in summary is that every nation is LOOKING OUT FOR THEMSELVES and no one else.  

Please bring him, with logs and proof we were involved in this random and pointless plan.

BTW, I only spoke with John and Dogs Bollocks. Frankly IDK who Wang even is.

 

You dont know me? How sad  

 

Im a friendly aussie who use to be the british diplomat, one of the founders of the british council and had long talks with all the U.S. leadership months ago  Go ask your clan leaders about our talks.

[EricKilla]

Ok here is my recollection of events.

Lets go way back. Spain had the Yuctan, the U.S. was at war with Spain and took it off Spain. They came into contact with Britain around tumbado and started taking British ports (Xpu Ha etc). The British kicked the U.S. out of the Yuctan, then War Broke out between Britain and Spain (lots of threads relating to that ) the Yuctan was taken by the Spanish then the British counter attacked and took the whole area.

The British were in talks at the time of what to do with the Yuctan with the U.S. now the last thing Britain wanted while still at war with Spain was to hand back the newly attained ports back to the U.S. in case they handed them back to Spain. So during this time new talks started with the U.S. trying to hand back the ports to the U.S. to hopefully gain the U.S. as a ally in the West. The talks were to give the U.S. the Yuctan and split the ports between conttoy and mugeres to be controlled one port each between Britain and the U.S. With the note that they not be handed back to Spain. During these talks STARS started to take the ports in the gulf and Yuctan area, and we didnt mind at all due to wanting to hand them back to the U.S. No one defended against the STARS aggression because we saw them fulfilling the talks we were having with the U.S. at the time.

This was a very complicated time diplomatically with everyone and it was very complicated events. All i can say in summary is that every nation is LOOKING OUT FOR THEMSELVES and no one else.

You dont know me? How sad

Im a friendly aussie who use to be the british diplomat, one of the founders of the british council and had long talks with all the U.S. leadership months ago Go ask your clan leaders about our talks.

Fair enough.

It is worthy of note that what you just talked about is completely different than what Lord Vicious is talking about.

[Bach]

I may be missing something, but does that particular he said she said past really matter anymore? What you gents need is an agreed upon fresh start taking the lessons from the past into account as you make a new way forward.

[Lord Vicious]

Fair enough.

It is worthy of note that what you just talked about is completely different than what Lord Vicious is talking about.

 

Point is give ports to spain never was part of the agreement  and USA agreed about that part since the start, wich is totally different then what Thomas pain say: that they planned to give it to spain after brit give it back so he lied to brits  , to spain, to usa, or all 3 . 

 

it either remained brit, or returned to usa , and when brit refused to give it back to usa,  stars started to take it back