[PvP1] Spain Defence against USA agression

[EricKilla]

Point is give ports to spain never was part of the agreement  and USA agreed about that part since the start, wich is totally different then what Thomas pain say: that they planned to give it to spain after brit give it back so he lied to brits  , to spain, to usa, or all 3 . 

 

it either remained brit, or returned to usa , and when brit refused to give it back to usa,  stars started to take it back

This is ancient history here. This has nothing to do with a theoretical attack on Mantanzas two weeks ago when we still held ports in the Gulf. At this rate, since you keep evading questions about the Mantanzas "plan" that you so loudly talked about earlier, I'll just figure that it doesn't exist and was simply an attempt to rabble rouse.

[Johny Reb]

Now comes the fun.

 

First, Thank you Wang for your contribution. We have talked often enough and you have always been an upstanding Brit.

There is truth in your recollection but it is also incomplete and the holes must be filled. I will help you to remember some of our conversations so you can give acknowledgment.

 

Lets go way back.  Spain had the Yuctan, the U.S. was at war with Spain and took it off Spain.  They came into contact with Britain around tumbado and started taking British ports (Xpu Ha etc).  The British kicked the U.S. out of the Yuctan, [missing information here] then War Broke out between Britain and Spain (lots of threads relating to that )  the Yuctan was taken by the Spanish then the British counter attacked and took the whole area.

This part is correct and I collaborate Wang's recollection but it is incomplete and convinces Vicious he is right when he is wrong.

If you will remember Wang that at this point the British nation was being pressed heavily by the pirates and the Danes and were looking for friends. There was an arranged meeting that had all three concerned nations involved. The US, the Brits and the Dons. All in the same room. Multiple clans were in attendance from all sides. In this meeting we worked out an agreement. The US worked out one with both Spain and the Brits but as separate agreements. The Brits did the same with us and Spain. Do you remember that meeting? If not we should bring in the SLRN reps and the BRIT reps that were present. We could even bring Gaizka back into the discussion as well. I believe he was there.

     Our agreement with the Brits was a simple border agreement. The Brits were not to go north of the gap between the Yucatan and Cuba and we wouldn't go South. Our agreement with the Spanish was Aransas south in the gulf as well as Cuba and we kept all our territory that we owned at the time north of aransas through Florida. In both cases open water pvp was allowed.

All three nations were there in force and this can be confirmed by multiple participants.

 

[My story differs here]The British were in talks at the time of what to do with the Yuctan with the U.S.  now the last thing Britain wanted while still at war with Spain was to hand back the newly attained ports back to the U.S. in case they handed them back to Spain.

     With the war expanding in the gulf I personally was contacted by the Brits. I'm pretty sure it was you Wang although I could be mistaken. It was explained to me that the move into the gulf was not meant to be an aggression against the us, since it violated our agreement, but rather the war was simply being waged where ever there were Spanish ports. I was told that if it was a problem then Britian could give us the ports they take.

     My response as I stated before was that I understood that the Brits had to take the war to the Spanish and so I would not see it as aggressive against the States BUT, the US will not be happy with a permanent British presence in the Gulf. We accepted the offer of the Brits for the ports back but not until the war was over with the Spanish because I didn't want it to appear that we were using the Brit offensive for our own gain against Spain.

     Something that could not be known about either party was the motives behind it. Wang explained their motives and I have explained ours. We didn't want the Brits in the gulf yet they had a war to wage. Our motive for accepting the ports was to remove them from the gulf. When things started to cool down our motive was to return those ports to the Spanish because we had no right to them per our agreement. This type of logic has been used by many nations in this game in the past months and you can see that what I say is true because Wang knew of our agreement and relationship with the Spanish and the Brits were concerned about us doing exactly what we planned on doing.

 

The British were in talks at the time of what to do with the Yuctan with the U.S.  now the last thing Britain wanted while still at war with Spain was to hand back the newly attained ports back to the U.S. in case they handed them back to Spain.  So during this time new talks started with the U.S. trying to hand back the ports to the U.S. to hopefully gain the U.S. as a ally in the West. 1 The talks were to give the U.S. the Yuctan and split the ports between conttoy and mugeres to be controlled one port each between Britain and the U.S.  With the note that they not be handed back to Spain. 2 During these talks STARS started to take the ports in the gulf and Yuctan area, and we didnt mind at all due to wanting to hand them back to the U.S.  No one defended against the STARS aggression because we saw them fulfilling the talks we were having with the U.S. at the time.  3

 

1.  This speaks to motives again. I can only speak to conversations. What Wang was thinking at the time is no more known to me than Vicious's understanding of my motives. The conversation I had with Wang(I believe) when I finally talked with him about the transfer of ports, he had backed off of the agreement and therefore in my mind violated the treaty. Although this is how I felt, I also felt that he understood this and wanted a solution that would work it self out. Basically time. I had been told that they were only willing to hand over the ports down to Victoria. As a reason for not handing them all over as we were given the impression would be done I was told that the other Brit clans would not be happy to hand over ports so quickly that they had expended so much effort and resources to take.

    Although I did not like this and felt that the Brits were not honoring their word, having it handed over in stages was not the end of the world.

2. I was not present at any of these talks. I'm not saying they didn't happen but I am not aware of them. There has been no decision in the Council that I have not been involved in(especially with the Spanish because I have been the one leading the fight to give our relationship some time to grow)so essentially these must have been brainstorming talks. They don't imply an agreement, backstabbing, intent, or anything else that could be seen as opposing the Spanish.

     It was the same when we talked with the pirates when the Danes asked us to get into the war with the Brits. We didn't want to join that war but because of our alliance with the Danes we did what they suggested and talked with the rats which came to nothing. It was not a discussion of intent with them. We were just exploring possibilities. Keeping our minds open.

     The other possibility is that Wang was not discussing this with a council member

     Either possibility preserves my integrity and shows Vicious to be wrong once again. Without an agreement it means nothing. It was just talk.

3. We figured this which leads to the next and most enjoyable point of all.

 

 

Brit remove spain from gulf and say to usa, sorry we not gonna give it

Stars step up, remove the brit from the gulf, the council rage at stars call us traitors etc, we keep going, after we finish the work we switch to pirates, becouse we not wanted to be part of a nation vassal of the brits with no balls to enforce an agreement. 

We manipulated the hell out of you Vicious. Your so predictable.

We had problem. British in gulf

Diplomat wanted to transfer them but other clans did not want to transfer all

We desired to keep our agreement intact with both the British and Spanish.

Vicious knew nothing of this agreement or the bending of it until he came and asked to be part of the council

In that conversation I threw out the bait and hooked the fish I was after. I leaked to him that the Brits weren't holding to the agreement completely knowing exactly what he would do.

I did this believing that the Brit diplomats didn't want to jeopardize their friendship with us but needed a way to save face after all that hard work and it is obvious by what Wang wrote I judged correctly because they didn't defend

That very night or the next one STARS began taking the ports unprotected and bragging about how they were the only ones defending against the Brits that broke the agreement and the council was doing nothing.

I molded you like clay Vicious. Your eve name is apt because you were my Puppet. I have had to keep that story to myself for a long time. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to share it in context.

It solved everyone's problem perfectly and we have a good relationship with the Brits still. The only downside was that it allowed STARS to grow in leaps and bounds since it was the clan that was providing the content to the nation at the time. I hadn't foreseen that and I've learned from it.

 

This was a very complicated time diplomatically with everyone and it was very complicated events.  All i can say in summary is that every nation is LOOKING OUT FOR THEMSELVES and no one else. 

If this discussion does anything, it proves this statement.

 

What it also does, indirectly, is show that someone who WASN'T present at any talks, discussions, internal memos, sticky notes, messages on toilet stalls, the use of lucky charms decoder rings, and palm readers, should not dare suggest he has any clue about the whats and whys of complicated diplomatic discussions between nations and groups outside of his own.

 

Sorry so long, CeltiberoCaesar. I had no choice.

[Potemkin]

Wow didn't forsee this becoming another nuclear exchange, lol.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Potemkin

[Cabral]

 So, Johny Reb, like Dr. Frankenstein you created that "monster" and now we all have to swallow all this crap that's going on.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Cabral

[Lord Vicious]

Stars planned to take the gulf even when still was spanish tbh, so you  did nothing, doesnt matter who was holding it, after we got our ranks we where going for it anyway, fact you allowed brit to get it and remove spanish etc made no difference  it just accelerate our decision.

 

 

But congratulations your plan worked sooo well if is true things i doubt since you never where able to made your plan working, but if is true, you lied to other american clans, you only manage to LOSE THE GULF, LOSE THE SPANISH, LOSE STARS who kicked your ass twice, causing your nation shitload of problems.

 

Wow, and you even dare you to say it whas your plan who made STARS grow and become what we become.        You sure you are smart?   Your planning must be very short sight

[Johny Reb]

 So, Johny Reb, like Dr. Frankenstein you created that "monster" and now we all have to swallow all this crap that's going on.

I must in all honesty take some of the blame but I don't regret any of my actions beyond the ones I have already mentioned. I would blame ultimately, Vicious for the growth of this "monster" because STARS didn't have to be a monster. They could of just been another clan that was strong and active.

[Johny Reb]

Stars planned to take the gulf even when still was spanish tbh, so you  did nothing, doesnt matter who was holding it, after we got our ranks we where going for it anyway, fact you allowed brit to get it and remove spanish etc made no difference  it just accelerate our decision.

I realize you had aims on that area. You had already taken one or two Brit ports if my memory serves me correctly. Acceleration was the goal.

AND.....

...when you asked to be a part of the council you claimed that you wanted to return the ports to the Spanish and honor the agreements that the Council had made and help us in the fight against the Rats. What your saying here is that none of this was true. You told us what we wanted to hear.

... let this be known to all the former STARS members. Vicious came to the council falsely. The council's long deliberation on the inclusion of STARS due to mistrust in Vicious was merited. Your anger misplaced.

 

But congratulations your plan worked sooo well if is true things i doubt since you never where able to made your plan working, but if is true, you lied to other american clans, you only manage to LOSE THE GULF, LOSE THE SPANISH, LOSE STARS who kicked your ass twice, causing your nation shitload of problems.

I don't see how it didn't work well. The Brits did leave the gulf, The Spanish did take back the Southern Gulf. The stuff your saying I lost happened recently as an entirely different set of events with no relationship to the history we are discussing.

It appears that we have lost the Spanish but we have gained the Brits, a much more formidable ally.

 

Wow, and you even dare you to say it whas your plan who made STARS grow and become what we become.        You sure you are smart?   Your planning must be very short sight

I've made no such claims. I said I didn't foresee the byproduct of an accelerated move by STARS. I don't claim to have caused your clan to grow in the least. 

I can see why you don't use the supposed Doctorate in History you have. You suck at it.

[GrapeShot]

I told 'em not to trust Viscous. His wingnuttery was, and still is, glaringly obvious.

[Lord Vicious]

I realize you had aims on that area. You had already taken one or two Brit ports if my memory serves me correctly. Acceleration was the goal.

AND.....

...when you asked to be a part of the council you claimed that you wanted to return the ports to the Spanish and honor the agreements that the Council had made and help us in the fight against the Rats. What your saying here is that none of this was true. You told us what we wanted to hear.

... let this be known to all the former STARS members. Vicious came to the council falsely. The council's long deliberation on the inclusion of STARS due to mistrust in Vicious was merited. Your anger misplaced.

 

I don't see how it didn't work well. The Brits did leave the gulf, The Spanish did take back the Southern Gulf. The stuff your saying I lost happened recently as an entirely different set of events with no relationship to the history we are discussing.

It appears that we have lost the Spanish but we have gained the Brits, a much more formidable ally.

 

I've made no such claims. I said I didn't foresee the byproduct of an accelerated move by STARS. I don't claim to have caused your clan to grow in the least. 

I can see why you don't use the supposed Doctorate in History you have. You suck at it.

 

Yeah you are better then me, thats why your clan is a fail and the USA a nation is a jocke, becouse you are better, you puppetmaster Me and Stars.

You did an awesome job, your diplomacy and leading skills are beyond my comprension. 

 

Congratulations.   now check the game map for the last 2 months, and find me an usa victory  thx.   

 

ps: where is your formidable ally? 

[EricKilla]

Congratulations. now check the game map for the last 2 months, and find me an usa victory thx.

I'm working on it.

[Wolf Howl]

http://consejo-de-indias.clansweb.es/estadillo-diplomatico 

En teoría EE.UU. reconoce la soberanía española sobre la costa mexicana al sur de Aransas, y el Consejo reconoce la soberanía de los Cayos de Florida de los Estados Unidos (inc tortugas)

 

En guerra con dos clanes rebeldes [Forge y Umad] fuera del Consejo Americano.

 

change?

         

Edited June 3, 2016 by Wolf Howl

[EricKilla]

http://consejo-de-indias.clansweb.es/estadillo-diplomatico 

En teoría EE.UU. reconoce la soberanía española sobre la costa mexicana al sur de Aransas, y el Consejo reconoce la soberanía de los Cayos de Florida de los Estados Unidos (inc tortugas)

 

En guerra con dos clanes rebeldes [Forge y Umad] fuera del Consejo Americano.

 

change?

         

Perdona mi Google Translatese.

FORGE tiene pirata desaparecido, y UMAD está inactivo, sus jugadores unirse a otros clanes. Todo lo que queremos es volver los Cayos y la costa oeste de la Florida, y un pacto de no agresión.

 

Déjanos ser amigos. En lugar de luchar entre si, vamos a luchar a los piratas, de lado a lado. Cuba podría apagar completamente amarillo, en lugar de una mezcla de amarillo, rojo y negro. El lado norte de la Española puede ser de color amarillo una vez más. España puede incluso ser permitido para recuperar Tejas. Si se une a nosotros, vamos a ayudar a negociar un fin a esta guerra infernal entre Gran Bretaña y España. Usted sólo tiene que unirse a nosotros.

[Magnum]

Wow, some random doodles (1/4 baked "plans") really stirred up ZOD didn't they?

 

MUUUUUHHHHHHAAAAAHHHHHAAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAAA!

[Woody051]

[EricKilla]

Wow, some random doodles (1/4 baked "plans") really stirred up ZOD didn't they?

 

MUUUUUHHHHHHAAAAAHHHHHAAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAAA!

He deleted them off Imgur, hilariously enough. I am putting his port-timer map to use though. The Spanish timers (and the Bahama Timers) on that map are still accurate, and so it's rather useful.

[Vernon Merrill]

Some good fights with you guys the past few days, gentlemen!  Lots of fun..  07

[Celtiberofrog]

Dear gentlemen,

 

After the USA pefidious attack on CayoVacas a few days ago that started the war between Spain & USA, borders were preserved from any further attacks from both sides. Spain was showing a will to settle the conflict by a non-agression attitude and was indeed hoping to witness the same will from USA.

USA has sadly decided to attack again our borders by trying to take Islamorada yesturday (by 16-18h server time). The 24 ships who attacked were utterly defeated and sunk for most of them.

Spain is now convinced that USA is not looking for peace with its spanish neighbourg.

War will carry on as they wish.

 

Now, in case USA would like to show any respectful fighting spirit, we would appreciate the US not to hide behind the timer issues by doing the following:

 

- Any port newly taken will be set without timer (or with negociated new timers), both nations will respect this rule.

or

- Both nations do not attack each other ports untill a new partch is changing the timer issue.

 

I recommand USA to look at some other nations that are fighting as real gentlemen by setting "game-play" timers despite they deal with players from different continents. 

 

We look forward to reading your comments.

 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Celtiberofrog

[Potemkin]

Oh snap

[Crayon]

Stars planned to take the gulf even when still was spanish tbh, so you  did nothing, doesnt matter who was holding it, after we got our ranks we where going for it anyway, fact you allowed brit to get it and remove spanish etc made no difference  it just accelerate our decision.

 

 

But congratulations your plan worked sooo well if is true things i doubt since you never where able to made your plan working, but if is true, you lied to other american clans, you only manage to LOSE THE GULF, LOSE THE SPANISH, LOSE STARS who kicked your ass twice, causing your nation shitload of problems.

 

Wow, and you even dare you to say it whas your plan who made STARS grow and become what we become.        You sure you are smart?   Your planning must be very short sight

The plan was to wipe the Spanish from the gulf. Either Vicious is playing his propaganda game to the max, or he doesn't remember his own objectives. 

 

When I joined STARS the plan was to wipe the spanish from the gulf. Their holdings at the time were from Aransas to the area around Victoria, especially Espiritu Santo. 

 

After we were done, we were SUPPOSED to go and farm PIRATES afterwords which was the main reason I joined STARS. Vicious practically begged me to join too "I want you here" "I want you in the clan" etc.

  -At this time I had no clan tag, and was leaning towards joining King of Crowns (AKA Clowns)

We weren't supposed to become pirates, which is why i stayed US. I refuse to play these popularity contests and ego wars that SORRY and the rest of the people who 'represent' others in the game engage in.

 

For real, f*ck that s*it. Players need to represent themselves, and only themselves. Everyone else is not you or your clan. Stop trying to represent everyone, and focus on you and your own.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Crayon

[GrapeShot]

Wait ... are you trying to say you don't stay awake all night trying to figure out the workings of the Yank's, Don's and Lord Vacuous's politicking?

I'm shocked, sir. Shocked.

Edited June 6, 2016 by GrapeShot

[EricKilla]

Dear gentlemen,

After the USA pefidious attack on CayoVacas a few days ago that started the war between Spain & USA, borders were preserved from any further attacks from both sides. Spain was showing a will to settle the conflict by a non-agression attitude and was indeed hoping to witness the same will from USA.

USA has sadly decided to attack again our borders by trying to take Islamorada yesturday (by 16-18h server time). The 24 ships who attacked were utterly defeated and sunk for most of them.

Spain is now convinced that USA is not looking for peace with its spanish neighbourg.

War will carry on as they wish.

Now, in case USA would like to show any respectful fighting spirit, we would appreciate the US not to hide behind the timer issues by doing the following:

- Any port newly taken will be set without timer (or with negociated new timers), both nations will respect this rule.

or

- Both nations do not attack each other ports untill a new partch is changing the timer issue.

I recommand USA to look at some other nations that are fighting as real gentlemen by setting "game-play" timers despite they deal with players from different continents.

We look forward to reading your comments.

Only if you have the devs remove all timers on every Spanish port.

We have to get up early and deal with port timers when we're at work. You are doing the same thing.

In short: Deal with it.

We have more enemies than just Spain. Enemies that would not uphold such agreements. Shoot, REA would not honor it. What kind of fools do you take us for?

Edited June 6, 2016 by EricKilla

[Eldberg]

Dear gentlemen,

 

After the USA pefidious attack on CayoVacas a few days ago that started the war between Spain & USA, borders were preserved from any further attacks from both sides. Spain was showing a will to settle the conflict by a non-agression attitude and was indeed hoping to witness the same will from USA.

USA has sadly decided to attack again our borders by trying to take Islamorada yesturday (by 16-18h server time). The 24 ships who attacked were utterly defeated and sunk for most of them.

Spain is now convinced that USA is not looking for peace with its spanish neighbourg.

War will carry on as they wish.

 

Now, in case USA would like to show any respectful fighting spirit, we would appreciate the US not to hide behind the timer issues by doing the following:

 

- Any port newly taken will be set without timer (or with negociated new timers), both nations will respect this rule.

or

- Both nations do not attack each other ports untill a new partch is changing the timer issue.

 

I recommand USA to look at some other nations that are fighting as real gentlemen by setting "game-play" timers despite they deal with players from different continents. 

 

We look forward to reading your comments.

 

 

 

Contact was made and a non aggressive attitude was provided, however you insisted on the war, which we are now giving you. This is all of your own making my friend, or would you like me to post a recording of our talks on to the forums to prove so?

You talk of honour, but have clans like RAE behaving like repulsive little children, entering a combatants teamspeak during a port battle and screaming at the top of their lungs. It is RAE who threw a tantrum at the US/Spanish relations, they forced the Spanish Council in to a war and you did not have the balls to stand up to them and their pirate allies. What it seems like from over here is that you are lacking the parts to be a gentleman, perhaps we should refer to you as gentle-ladies?

Edited June 6, 2016 by Stephen_Decatur

[Eldberg]

Salty from what exactly? I have had nothing but great fun the last few weeks, PVP has been wonderful down at Key West.

[Alado]

Well, when you surrender? I still trying know how bath work. Last weekend i capture a yellow conie to my dear mr vernon, but he scape, so i lost my oportunity to know to bath. XD

[Vernon Merrill]

I'm confused by this bath talk....  What am I missing?