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Christendom

Battle of the Bastards - PVP Global Duel Tournament

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I agree, there should be a limit on repairs: Hull Repairs 1 time (maybe 2) per battle; same with Rig Repairs.

Also, we need have a judge in there to ensure the battle is actually fought and not a waste of time. Its sad to say, but I've dueled people before who simply spent the majority of the time sailing away and kiting sails to no end (and I don't mean just gaining distance to have a ranged fight, which is fine). We don't want to have "fights" like that. If you join the tournament, you should be prepared to stay in battle, engage the enemy, and sink the enemy or be sunk. An opponent who voluntarily leaves battle should count as a win for the other player

This could be a fun event, I'll be watching closely and I will enter if my schedule allows it.

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We talked about doing some stuff on the weekends and La Navvas would be prob the best freetown for every one that wants to do the fight.  I use to do the gunboat to judge fights in Duels/Small battles.  I could run something like a Trader Lynx and start the FFA battles.  We can set up it on the back side of the port so folks can't just jump out and join.  Than have a guard of none involved ships on making sure no one enters.  IF they do than the guards will join and slaughter that one person or group.  

I'm kinda taking it slow from the game until testbed opens, got to pack and get moved by the end of the month so can't be hanging out in game all the time.  Though if something is planed I can be on to help since I don't duel and won't want to be part of the fighting.

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Sport - Knockout Draw Generator (16 Teams) v0.02.xlsx

Like the idea. Agree with similar observations others have made here. Would suggest TWO forms of battle.

 

1.       Vanilla Duels

2.       Formula 1

 

Vanilla duels and battles NO, Perm mods, NO ship knowledge skills and NO repair kits. Giving limit choices is too complicated just make clean simple. Also, this will encourage the newer PvPer to enter instead of the “older guys will have all the kit what’s the point…?” type of thing.

The Formula 1 events are no holds barred apart from a UPPER Band CLASS or BR Limit. As it states bring what you want decked out as you wish.

La Navesse sounds good to me.

Norfolk.

 

Edited by Norfolk nChance

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Further thoughts - 

3v3 - max of 500 BR.  4th rates allowed and you MUST have 3 players.  

Repairs - A couple options.  Limit 2 hull and 2 rig each ship.  1 Hull/Rig each.  Say screw it and just bring as much as you want and take the penalty.  Only bringing rig repairs.  No repairs.  what does the peanut gallery thing?

Ships - Vanilla or no?  hard to enforce not using mods. 

Duels outside Navasse.  We will setup some sort of outlaw battle.  Keep an eye on people "fleeing" too much since this is not the duel room and we do not have the circle of death.

EU guys that want to come over   let us know IN advance and we'll coordinate ships.

1v1 Duels - Koltes and KoC in a wappen needs to happen.   I'm thinking 1v1 surprises only for the rest.  Everyone should have a slot or 2 unlocked.

Finale - Pickle outlaw battle FFA melee.

 

Teams will only consist of players in the same nation.  no god damn alts.  Clans can field multiple teams.  

 

Edited by Christendom

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6 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Repairs - A couple options.  Limit 2 hull and 2 rig each ship.  1 Hull/Rig each.  Say screw it and just bring as much as you want and take the penalty.  Only bringing rig repairs.  No repairs.  what does the peanut gallery thing?

Ships - Vanilla or no?  hard to enforce not using mods. 

One each I think is good. Two at the most.

 

It would be hard to enforce the "vanilla" options, so might as well use whatever upgrades you have...

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In Gallery, throwing peanuts at @Christendom

 

1.       Vanilla Duels     1v1

Individual single PC 1v1 knockout. NO Perm Mods, NO Skill Knowledge, NO Repairs. Agree Chris you can’t enforce it. Referee pre-start each fight tells the PvPers the NO 3s and then start. I TRUST no one will actually CHEAT. That's it... Remember the new guys as well. 

Three classes, GREEN – Below 5th Rate, WHITE 5th – 4th Rates and RED SoLs

 

2.       Formula 1 OPEN               3v3

One CLASS 4th Rates and Below. Bring what 3 ships you want 4th rates or lower. Any Perm Mod, Any Skill Knowledge, Any number of repairs.

 

3.       Me & My ALT    1+ALT v 1+ALT

One CLASS 4th Rates and Below. Bring what 2 ships you want 4th rates or lower. Any Perm Mod, Any Skill Knowledge, Any number of repairs. You MPC plus your ALT [Sandboxie]…

 

Peanuts thrown…

 

 

Edited by Norfolk nChance

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1 hour ago, Christendom said:

Further thoughts - 

3v3 - max of 500 BR.  4th rates allowed and you MUST have 3 players.  500 BR is low. That's like Reno, Surprise, and Aggie.

Repairs - A couple options.  Limit 2 hull and 2 rig each ship.  1 Hull/Rig each.  Say screw it and just bring as much as you want and take the penalty.  Only bringing rig repairs.  No repairs.  what does the peanut gallery thing? If you have limited repairs then you need a ref in each battle. Some people have builds with repair perks. Would be annoying to take them out, but unlimited repairs could turn a battle into an hour and a half event with no winner.

Ships - Vanilla or no?  hard to enforce not using mods. Impossible to tell if they have mods or not.

Duels outside Navasse.  We will setup some sort of outlaw battle.  Keep an eye on people "fleeing" too much since this is not the duel room and we do not have the circle of death. Outlaw battle is great for same nations. I don't think anyones going to be a super asshat and crash your tourney.

EU guys that want to come over   let us know IN advance and we'll coordinate ships.

1v1 Duels - Koltes and KoC in a wappen needs to happen.   I'm thinking 1v1 surprises only for the rest.  Everyone should have a slot or 2 unlocked. Not sure if Koltes even has a Wapen. He runs in a Reno or Surprise. Why choose KoC's ship of choice?

Finale - Pickle outlaw battle FFA melee.

 

Teams will only consist of players in the same nation.  no god damn alts.  Clans can field multiple teams.  

 

 

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@admin or @Ink

 

The idea by @Christendom might need some help here. If asked in a Patch could you give all PCs an Indefatigable like before as a Redeemable? Can the ship come with locked mod slots, skill slots with NO cargo space? Can this be done quickly if needed?

This would give all New or Senior players alike the same ship. Doesn’t need any policing or monitoring. Everybody can take part. Also we all get a freebie disposable boat.

@admin is this possible? It would make the event very straight forward.

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

 

The lower BR is to force a team to vary its fleet makeup.

i think the last thing that anyone wants to see is a 3 v 3 battle made up of a monochrome fleet.

Such a BR limit  forces a varied fleet makeup and also forces a team to adjust its tactics accordingly. You can't just sail broadside to broadside when you and your oppoennents have ships with varying capabilities. 

IIRC, The 3v3 tournament that happened last year had a BR limit of 450. 

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7 hours ago, Chijohnaok said:

The lower BR is to force a team to vary its fleet makeup.

i think the last thing that anyone wants to see is a 3 v 3 battle made up of a monochrome fleet.

Such a BR limit  forces a varied fleet makeup and also forces a team to adjust its tactics accordingly. You can't just sail broadside to broadside when you and your oppoennents have ships with varying capabilities. 

IIRC, The 3v3 tournament that happened last year had a BR limit of 450. 

Okay. Maybe it was just me. I just wasn't looking forward to such small ships. But if the community wants mostly 5ths then I'm cool with it. 

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I don't duel but I can bring, me and wish to start duels with Pirate, then Stream with a Split screen. so we have 2 angles going whole time.

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500 BR should be more than fine.

@Christendom this should allow for one 4th rate and the rest 5th rates, or a combination of 5th rates, or even a 4th, 5th, and 6th rate. If the BR limit was any higher you would see 2 4th rates and this tournament would be about 4th rates, not 5ths.

So if this tournament goal is primarily 5th rates then I think you got the sweet spot.

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What format would most be in support of?  Single elimination knock-out?  The group format of the last tournament was probably the most fair but I think it would be far too cumbersome to run without the tournament instant battle and unlimited amounts of time to dedicate to moving ships around.

Could we commit to two battles per weekend? I'm guessing we'd likely have between 10-30 teams who'd be interested, and if it were single elimination, with two battles per weekend you could reduce a field of 32 to 2 over the course of two weeks? I think the biggest onus would be on referees and streamers that first weekend... I'm not sure the game has that many streamers left in it. :P 

 

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On 8/11/2017 at 5:12 PM, koltes said:

If demasting is allowed then it will be a demasting duels. Not against it, just saying it is what it is. As the organizor of the tournament he needs to decide if he wants that and run as a rule

Demasting is mainly only an issue in lopsided fights, e.g., Bellona fighting a Surprise.

My experience with same-class fights (lots of experience of this against the Danes and the Pirates) is that they go for demasting, we do mainly hull shot with some chain to take the edge off their speed and we win by a landslide.

Demasting ain't what she used to be.

But I guess a good way to settle that dispute would be to try it in a tournament!

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On 8/12/2017 at 5:55 PM, Duncan McFail said:

Repairs - A couple options.  Limit 2 hull and 2 rig each ship.  1 Hull/Rig each.  Say screw it and just bring as much as you want and take the penalty.  Only bringing rig repairs.  No repairs.  what does the peanut gallery thing? If you have limited repairs then you need a ref in each battle. Some people have builds with repair perks. Would be annoying to take them out, but unlimited repairs could turn a battle into an hour and a half event with no winner.
Absolutely. Repairs needs to be down controlled. 1 HULL, 2 RIG and 1 CREW.
 

Ships - Vanilla or no?  hard to enforce not using mods. Impossible to tell if they have mods or not.
No way to tell. So ships can be any setups. Bring best that you can equip is simple and fair. The comp will be about everything. Your skills AND your gear.
Thats why there is just a BR limit. You just bring what you can sail well

 

Duels outside Navasse.  We will setup some sort of outlaw battle.  Keep an eye on people "fleeing" too much since this is not the duel room and we do not have the circle of death. Outlaw battle is great for same nations. I don't think anyones going to be a super asshat and crash your tourney.
Fleeing will be an issue with multiple repairs. Last tournament there were just 1 per type. Today we have battles mainly last a long time because people run, extend time of the battle so they can repair again.
Still think that 1 HUL repair and 2 RIG repairs and NO Crew repair (or 1 CREW max) is the best option.

This also counters pure meta demasting allowing not to set any rules for demasting with extra rig repair and keeping it simple.
 

1v1 Duels - Koltes and KoC in a wappen needs to happen.   I'm thinking 1v1 surprises only for the rest.  Everyone should have a slot or 2 unlocked. Not sure if Koltes even has a Wapen. He runs in a Reno or Surprise. Why choose KoC's ship of choice?
I have accepted his choice and have built the ship already. Its fine. Wappens are set


 

 

On 8/12/2017 at 4:48 PM, Norfolk nChance said:

1.       Vanilla Duels     1v1

Individual single PC 1v1 knockout. NO Perm Mods, NO Skill Knowledge, NO Repairs. Agree Chris you can’t enforce it. Referee pre-start each fight tells the PvPers the NO 3s and then start. I TRUST no one will actually CHEAT. That's it... Remember the new guys as well. 

Three classes, GREEN – Below 5th Rate, WHITE 5th – 4th Rates and RED SoLs
There is no way to control that. While it makes fair on paper, it will make even worse gab in the gear used when you play vs cheaters. I say BR limit and bring what you can sail best. Its simple and fair.

 

2.       Formula 1 OPEN               3v3

One CLASS 4th Rates and Below. Bring what 3 ships you want 4th rates or lower. Any Perm Mod, Any Skill Knowledge, Any number of repairs.
I think guys wanted to do 3x3 limited BR taking into account that there are not many player left and that we will have tough luck getting number let alone people sailing 4th rates. This also keeps it simple and allows for variety and the mix

 

19 hours ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

3v3 is fine but I think it would be better 4v4 for both sides.
Same as above. I think we will have tough luck getting numbers even for 3v3

 

10 hours ago, Teutonic said:

500 BR should be more than fine.
500 BR is good, because it allows for x1 4th rate and x2 5th, however an addition to 500BR I want to propose maximum x1 4th rate per team and none above.
Otherwise instead of variety we will just see 2 man teams on x2 4th rates.
 

@Christendom this should allow for one 4th rate and the rest 5th rates, or a combination of 5th rates, or even a 4th, 5th, and 6th rate. If the BR limit was any higher you would see 2 4th rates and this tournament would be about 4th rates, not 5ths.
4th rates are 250BR (except wappen), so teams can still run x2 4th rates teams (just 2 ships in a team), which can be countered by the restriction I described above - limit x1 4th rate per team and none above.

 

8 hours ago, Wraith said:

What format would most be in support of?  Single elimination knock-out?
This would be the easiest and most matches could be run at the same time. Early matches don't even need to be streamed or not all of them anyway.
Something like they do in WOT on a weekly basis.
https://worldoftanks.asia/en/tournaments/2000000427/
WFDEuID.jpg


The group format of the last tournament was probably the most fair but I think it would be far too cumbersome to run without the tournament instant battle and unlimited amounts of time to dedicate to moving ships around.
Yeah, and with huge pop drop I dont think it will be sensible thing to do.
 

Could we commit to two battles per weekend? I'm guessing we'd likely have between 10-30 teams who'd be interested, and if it were single elimination, with two battles per weekend you could reduce a field of 32 to 2 over the course of two weeks? I think the biggest onus would be on referees and streamers that first weekend... I'm not sure the game has that many streamers left in it. :P 
If we have say 30 teams, we could do the whole tournament on Saturday night US timezone, which will be Sunday morning - day in Aussie/NZ timezone.
Elimination round will allow to run all matches on one day. Each round happens at the same time.

Round 1.
30/2=15 winners to the next round

Round 2.
15/2= 7 winners +1 to the next round.

Round 3. Quarter Final
8/2 = 4 winners to the next round

Round 4. Semi Final
4/2=2 winners to the next round

Round 5. FINALS
2=1 winner of the tournament

If we cant commit for a full day and do it 2 Rounds per week then:
Round 1 and 2 could happen on the first weekend. Round 3 and 4 on the 2nd weekend. 3rd week finals opens with koltes/koc duel and then the final round.


Thoughts?

 

5 hours ago, Slamz said:

Demasting is mainly only an issue in lopsided fights, e.g., Bellona fighting a Surprise.
Not true at all. Good demasters will strip you from a mast in an equal ship, e.g. Surp vs Surp.
 

My experience with same-class fights (lots of experience of this against the Danes and the Pirates) is that they go for demasting, we do mainly hull shot with some chain to take the edge off their speed and we win by a landslide.
Same is what I do, however lots have changed since the last tournament and lots of people go for demasting now. When you face a properly fitted demasting ship she is a fearsome opponent. You are mixing OW PvP where you have to worry about speed and other stuff, vs dueling setups.

 

Demasting ain't what she used to be.
Thats true, but mast buff was countered by endless accuracy and penetration mods. So yeah its still is if not worse as before.
 

But I guess a good way to settle that dispute would be to try it in a tournament!
1 HULL repair and 2 RIG repairs will also help to counter meta demasting duels

 

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11 hours ago, Wraith said:

What format would most be in support of?  Single elimination knock-out?  The group format of the last tournament was probably the most fair but I think it would be far too cumbersome to run without the tournament instant battle and unlimited amounts of time to dedicate to moving ships around.

Could we commit to two battles per weekend? I'm guessing we'd likely have between 10-30 teams who'd be interested, and if it were single elimination, with two battles per weekend you could reduce a field of 32 to 2 over the course of two weeks? I think the biggest onus would be on referees and streamers that first weekend... I'm not sure the game has that many streamers left in it. :P 

 

I would think single elimination as once you lose a ship some players would be screwed. Could still run into that with 3v3's. We have Joba and Seagull for streaming. Might just want the streamers as the ref's in some battles. I'm thinking we'll get at least 10 groups for the 3v3's. That alone is 5 streamers needed if all the battles start at the same time. If you spread it out casually over time then it wouldn't be as bad.

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Maybe do an open braket. I get the 3 vs 3 and such but why not have a group set some time that is as many ships as you want to bring but you limited to 500 BR.  This could be fun as hell.  Think of it.  You can have two 4th rates vs 10 8th rats...lol  Death by a thousand cuts.

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I'll come up with a final set of rules and restrictions tomorrow, but so far this is what I'm thinking.

3v3 Tourney

- 500 BR max.  You MUST have 3 players
- Repairs: 1 Hull, 2 rig.  This will make the matches quicker, more decisive and de-masting a little less effective.
- Multiple streamers.  I put out some feelers to @Jeheil and I'll probably use @JobaSet.
- Plan for 1 afternoon/evening a weekend, for a couple weeks.  Possible makeup days during the week to sync up schedules.  
- streamers will be refs and help moderate.  Ref word will be final.  Use 2 hull repairs and they will DQ you.  
- no running and excessive kiting.  
- 1 and done knockouts.  Players can tap out to save ships if they want.

1v1 Tourney

- Surprises only.  We don't have the time, inclination or population to match people up in ships.  Everyone should already have a slot of 2 open on the suprise anyway.
- Same rules as above to save on time.  

Pickle FFA Melee

- everyone bring a pickle.  no teams, no rules, last man standing.

 

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1 hour ago, Christendom said:

I'll come up with a final set of rules and restrictions tomorrow, but so far this is what I'm thinking.

3v3 Tourney

- 500 BR max.  You MUST have 3 players
- Repairs: 1 Hull, 2 rig.  This will make the matches quicker, more decisive and de-masting a little less effective.
- Multiple streamers.  I put out some feelers to @Jeheil and I'll probably use @JobaSet.
- Plan for 1 afternoon/evening a weekend, for a couple weeks.  Possible makeup days during the week to sync up schedules.  
- streamers will be refs and help moderate.  Ref word will be final.  Use 2 hull repairs and they will DQ you.  
- no running and excessive kiting.  
- 1 and done knockouts.  Players can tap out to save ships if they want.

1v1 Tourney

- Surprises only.  We don't have the time, inclination or population to match people up in ships.  Everyone should already have a slot of 2 open on the suprise anyway.
- Same rules as above to save on time.  

Pickle FFA Melee

- everyone bring a pickle.  no teams, no rules, last man standing.

 

Sounds good man!

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