Alliances - final design

[admin]

 

what if scenario...

 

week 1

  France (declared enemy england) allies denmark (declared enemy england)

  

week 2

  denmark (declared enemy england) allies with Verenig. (declared enemy USA)

  

  If France launchs a series of invasions against Verenig. (as it seems you do not need to have them as declared enemy to do so)

 

  

 

 

 

Dutch wil be part of France/Denmark alliance so france won't be able to attack them

[fox2run]

You don't get a Victory, just because you paid.

You don't get a Port, just because you paid.

You don't get political power, just because you paid.

Don't get me wrong. I really like the way you have put forth a successful clan.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15429-diplomacy-may-not-be-a-good-idea/?p=286743

You need freedom for your clan, while maintaining alliances. A different kind of Pirate, a Neutral if you will.

The alliance mechanics should cater to your clan as well as any other (National or Pirate).

 

No. We are not neutral nor do we like any piracy. We just like to play the game "as is" - out of the box. Our nation is at war with all other nations - so we attack enemies when we meet them. Its not complicated, its not neutral, its not piracy. We fight for the flag. The thing is that some players in some clans make diplomacy with some other players in some other clans in other nations.

 

They do this on BEHALF ON THE ENTIRE NATION!!!! They cannot do that. Its wrong. They can only do this for themselves. And players who like to play the game "As is" are getting really bashed and unpopular. Its completely wrong. It should be the other way around.

 

I mean: I paid for this game. I didnt pay for someone to rule my sparetime!!! You must be nuts! So if this diplo-thing has to work, it must be: one customer - one vote!

Please dont have old grumpy vet-players with 20 SOLs and millions on their accounts have more votes... It simply does not feel right from a customers perspective!!! 

Edited August 3, 2016 by fox2run

[Tyrdael]

Guess Otto means the pirate overhaul and the alliance system should go hand in hand.

[Quineloe]

Guess Otto means the pirate overhaul and the alliance system should go hand in hand.

And if it did, he'd still complain because he won't like the pirate overhaul. 

Some people can never be pleased.

[Aphilas]

the goal is to test how alliances work. how votes are received can be updated later. 

for the first test votes will depend on rank and time probably time in the nation. 

What about the fact that players that quit the game can leave their account details to their friends? Say for example someone who is still playing from old pirate clan Koto can easily have access to 20+ accounts that are very old. Since game does not have monthly sub, that kind of issues need to be thought and dealt with, imho.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Aphilas

[Vernon Merrill]

What's with all the hippie-trippy pleas for equality and democracy? You are a captain in the Napoleonic era navy. Hell, even the Americans had a strict hierarchy of privileges. There's nothing preventing you from playing this game how you want "out of the box". However, you should be prepared to deal with any repercussions resulting from them. Your "grumpy old vet players with 20 SOL" have spent far more time trying to make this game better by testing and providing feedback than some player who pops on for two hours a week to grind out a lieutenant mission and log off. I don't think it's too far-fetched or too "vapor-inducing" to expect that that persons input SHOULD carry a bit more weight.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Vernon Merrill

[Quineloe]

i prefer small PvP rather than RvR.

I guess this is why you're making such a big deal out of "alliances can help each other in port battles"

 

If you spoke true, this wouldn't bother you in the least.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Quineloe

[fox2run]

I have paid money for this. So I very much like some kind of influence regardless of time spent. Its pretty simple. My wallet is the same as yours. There is no hippie-stuff involved in customers rights nor good customer service! 

And those testers who think they are something special? Give em some kind of a nice skin on that yacht of theirs or a nice banner on top of the mast. What do I care? 

[Eishen]

Im waiting for pirate overhaul with great interest and i will stay Pirate rather for sure, i prefer small PvP rather than RvR. But untill then i would like Pirates to be treated equally just like any other nation. Above changes presented by devs in first post do not fulfill this condition.

According the Roadmap   http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14640-devlog-forthcoming-content-patches-plan/     thats the intention anyway:

 

 

Content patch: August  (Work in Progress) 

• First iteration of War & Peace/Alliances/Pirates
• ...

[Juan Alfonso]

Excellent suggestion chaps, can't wait to test it in due time

[ajffighter86]

Ok so if Pirates are not a nation and can't do port battles what happens to my resource farms? How do I make money and gather materials?

I want to play the game and enjoy all aspects and craft but am feeling like I am being pushed to re-roll a nation.

If this is implemented I would like to see the devs give all nations a free re-roll so players can join smaller nations or leave Pirates.

 

Does anyone else see the irony of a pirate asking how he is going to make money and gather materials?

 

I swear the current mechanics have corrupted any concept of what it means to be a real pirate.

Edited August 3, 2016 by ajffighter86

[Destraex]

What is the mechanic for staying allies if their is no vote for or against a nation does the status quo from the last vote get kept or do they become auto enemies if no alliance is re-newed?

Also will their be a popup letting people know they need to vote? So that we get maximum participation.

[Mrdoomed]

One player - one vote!

Democratic system please. Im so tired being member of a nation that is tossed around by a few, dedicated players with their home-made-RvR diplomacy. Its really a turn-off and one of the major reasons for annoyance. "You cant attack that ship - we have a treaty with those guys - do this - do that"

Damn! Lets ged rid of this once and for all!

All byers have paid the same amount of money - all should have the same vote. All other factors should be left out completely! We are all customers here!!!!

We are customers who bought a game and agreed to test an alpha game and agreed to the tos. Your complaint is sorta like going into burger king and demanding a big mac and getting mad when you cant get it.

[Skully]

And thus it boils down to relinquishing control of any assets, Ship, Port, Clan, Outpost, which you worked hard to obtain within a Nation. While on the Pirate side the broken battle mechanic which makes the Pirate a Nation is not fixed.

Let the testing commence...

[admin]

What is the mechanic for staying allies if their is no vote for or against a nation does the status quo from the last vote get kept or do they become auto enemies if no alliance is re-newed?

Also will their be a popup letting people know they need to vote? So that we get maximum participation.

 

 

Getting maximum participation is national leaders work. They have to work with their nation to influence the voting. 

If alliance is not renewed = its broken and your nations become enemies again.

[admin]

What about the fact that players that quit the game can leave their account details to their friends? Say for example someone who is still playing from old pirate clan Koto can easily have access to 20+ accounts that are very old. Since game does not have monthly sub, that kind of issues need to be thought and dealt with, imho.

 

 

If that person was able to influence 20 people to hand over their steam account to him kudos to him. He represents 20 players. Why it has to be dealt with? You can also influence 20 people to hand over accounts to you. 

[fox2run]

We are customers who bought a game and agreed to test an alpha game and agreed to the tos. Your complaint is sorta like going into burger king and demanding a big mac and getting mad when you cant get it.

 

What on earth does a fair diplomatic system has to do with testers anyway? All Im saying is that one vote is most fair for all. But I know Im up against a dedicated player-group that somehow feels they are more important or need some extra benefits than the rest of us. Even though they paid the same! 

The whole idea that we should have "national leaders" is upsetting for most, Im sure... Please devs - think this over!!!

[z4ys]

I offer my vote for 1000k or 10€. Anyone interested? ;-)

 

Where is the differance to an alt?

Edited August 3, 2016 by z4ys

[Isink A Lot]

 

what if scenario...

 

week 1

  France (declared enemy england) allies denmark (declared enemy england)

  

week 2

  denmark (declared enemy england) allies with Verenig. (declared enemy USA)

  

  If France launchs a series of invasions against Verenig. (as it seems you do not need to have them as declared enemy to do so)

  

  can danes join BOTH sides in a PB? no side? How is green on green fire defined in this stance?

   

   

   "Alliances also will play important part in hostility generation"  does this means a bonus to hostility against "chosen enemies"?

  

 

 

 

Dutch wil be part of France/Denmark alliance so france won't be able to attack them

 

 

no

both nations must be a top choice for each other - but because the voting lasts for a week and you get multiple votes you will be able to put votes to make the second choice a first choice

 

basically - only 1 alliance per week.

 

How do these quotes work together? They seem to contradict one another. How can the Dutch be apart of a French/Denmark alliance if you can have 1 and only 1 ally per week? Per your first post Denmark cannot ally with Verenig until they break their alliance with France first.

 

I'll ask again, can you please show us an 8 week voting process for all nations and what the "state" (there are only 2 types, allied or war) between each nation would be after each weeks vote? All your answers to questions in this thread look to me like they contradict each other. Or am I missing something?

[admin]

How do these quotes work together? They seem to contradict one another. How can the Dutch be apart of a French/Denmark alliance if you can have 1 and only 1 ally per week? Per your first post Denmark cannot ally with Verenig until they break their alliance with France first.

 

 

 

 

You can sign 1 alliance per week

but you can have 2 (or maybe 3) nations in an alliance

 

but we do indeed need to handle the case when all nations pick on one enemy and form a mega alliance

 

and i think 2 alliance limit handles it. 

 

to be able to have a block all of them have to cross sign alliances

for example

france must have an alliance with sweden

sweden must have an alliance with england

and england must have an alliance with france to have a block

[Loco Bandito]

Does anyone else see the irony of a pirate asking how he is going to make money and gather materials?

I swear the current mechanics have corrupted any concept of what it means to be a real pirate.

I can go full pirate and raid AI ships or player ships and sit there and wait and take a trader and while taking X trader it's full of fish. Wait for next trader might get fir logs. While all my enemies have iron,timber farms going and as a pirate being no nation and holding ports how do I get resources? How do I get money? Just grind pve content? The money from pvp at the moment is terrible, unless your in a 1st rate and a 90min skirmish it's ok.

So will we be able to have production buildings? I guess ship yard in a free port of Mortimer as a capital. But what about other buildings? Can we fight for them as pirates are not a nation?

Edited August 3, 2016 by Loco Bandito

[Jerome]

I know mate but it seems a bit incomplete to me. In real life and history, war is an exception, not the usual political situation between nations.

Sounds like an awesome game. Peace in the Caribbean, all nations meet in the middle and fish.

Or, this is not real life.

[ajffighter86]

I can go full pirate and raid AI ships or player ships and sit there and wait and take a trader and while taking X trader it's full of fish. Wait for next trader might get fit logs. While all my enemies have iron,timber farms going and as a pirate being no nation and holding ports how do I get resources? How do I get money? Just grind pve content? The money from pvp at the moment is terrible, unless your in a 1st rate and a 90min skirmish it's ok.

So will we be able to have production buildings? I guess ship yard in a free port of Mortimer as a capital. But what about other buildings? Can we fight for them as pirates are not a nation?

 

Stop tempting me with the prospect that piracy might actually become challenging. It is time to separate the pretenders from the bloodthirsty savages that would make even Blackbeard himself tremble.

Edited August 3, 2016 by ajffighter86

[admin]

Sounds like an awesome game. Peace in the Caribbean, all nations meet in the middle and fish.

Or, this is not real life.

 

 

lets focus on the feature design with less off topic please

[Isink A Lot]

You can sign 1 alliance per week

but you can have 2 (or maybe 3) nations in an alliance

You edited your answer, lol. I still have this questions.

 

How? You stated each nation had to be top choice to become an ally. There is only one top choice per week right? Week one France and Denmark pick each other as top choice. Week two Denmark and Sweden picks each other as top choice, does this break the alliance with France for Denmark since both nations must be top choice? Or are you saying the first week vote last two weeks so the second week they do not need to be top choice? Does that also mean that on the third week Denmark and France have to vote top choice to be allies again, meaning every other week you must vote to retain alliance with the nation you picked in week one?

 

And just what are the other 4 nation states to your nation if they are neither the chosen ally or enemy? What can you do against them, take ports? Open world pvp only? enter their ports? France and Denmark allies week one, what are the Dutch, Brits, Spain, and US in relation to France?

 

Week one:

                 France vote ally Denmark enemy England

                 Denmark vote ally France enemy England

                 England vote ally US enemy Spain

                 US vote ally England enemy France

                 Spain vote ally Denmark enemy England

                 Dutch vote ally Sweden enemy Denmark

                 Sweden vote ally Dutch enemy Spain

Week one results

                 Alliances are France/Denmark; England/US; Dutch/Sweden with Spain with no allies because their top choice was not top choice of other nation?

                Enemies France, Denmark, & Spain enemy to England; US & France are enemies; England & Sweden enemy to Spain; Dutch are enemy to Denmark.

 

Does this make France/Denmark+Spain enemies to Sweden/Dutch and England/US? What is England & US's relation to Sweden & Dutch? Can they take ports, can they enter their ports, open world pvp only, what can they do or not do to each other?

Edited August 3, 2016 by Isink A Lot