runners

[Kaaru62]

we all see them, you can argue its practice for the open world, which is understandable. but in a closed arena, it just shows cowardice.

 

I can deal with rammers, I am one myself, I can deal with quitters, lots of reasons to quit a battle, but people that run in a closed arena I just cannot understand.

 

better to go down in a blaze of glory than to run and make people chase you all over the arena.

[Flip]

To each his own in the end, if the person running is kiting and has a valid chance at victory, let him do it. 

 

If its a lynx running from 10 frigates, well, maybe politely ask him to come closer

[Prater]

As long as they are still fighting.  If the person is just sailing around staying out of combat because they don't want a defeat and want to force a draw, that is the reason the zone was put in the game in the first place, to stop them from wasting everyone's time and pretending that they are "testing the sailing system of running away" as people used to say.

 

 

The biggest problem I see are the people who are in important ships and stay on the edge of combat so they don't sink and it ends up that the rest of their team sinks because they weren't sharing the damage by being in the combat with the rest of their team.

What is the saying?  "If you are not under fire you are not at your station."   (edit: actual quotation  "Each captain is at his post if he is under fire.")

Edited February 27, 2015 by Prater

[Flip]

 

 

The biggest problem I see are the people who are in important ships and stay on the edge of combat so they don't sink and it ends up that the rest of their team sinks because they weren't sharing the damage by being in the combat with the rest of their team.

 

 

Sadly that describes every game ever. Some people just refuse to take risks.

[relic]

If I end up surviving the rest of my team and I don't think I can defeat the remaining ships with pure force, but my ship isn't too badly damaged, I will always kite the remaining enemy ships. I've managed to turn around and win a few games by doing this.

Frankly, I find it hilarious when people complain about it. Why should I give up when there's no benefit for me to do so?

 

I agree that if someone were to run away just to force a draw it would be really annoying, but like Prater said, usually the closing border will make it hard to run for too long. Either way, so far in about 100 battles, I've never seen someone successfully force a draw by running away.

 

Anyway, you might want to get used to it. When they start testing a persistant open world, people will have a stronger incentive to run away so as to not risk losing their hard earned cargo, money etc. Running away will become much more common, both by pirates chased by "lawful" players and merchants chased by pirates.

[Johny Reb]

I will run if I am the last man standing against a vastly superior force. I will kite one of them if I can. I turn around and head back into them if one of two things happens. First, It is assured that I would get away if not for the containment area. I usually say, "I think its obvious that I would have escaped." I then turn back to them so that we can move on to the next match. Second, if I am obviously not gonna get away and it is obvious that I will not sink another ship before I go down then I will turn back to them so that, once again, we can move on to the next match.

 

I think this behavior is perfectly acceptable.

[Similon]

I've had 3 or 4 games were somebody has just fled to the border, seemingly just to deny the enemy the opportunity to deal damage.

Kinda understandable when it's a shiny new player usually you can just point out that if they sail away they'll either time out after leaving the combat area, or they can be evasive for 35 minutes and troll their enemy for zero gain.  (They rarely seem trusting when you recommend they come back and die). But, since most of the instances I saw were the same individual who was fairly far along, I think some people forget we aren't in open seas, and they don't lose anything if their ship sinks. That or they're just trolling.

[Admaa]

If they're in a frigate, they have every right to run/kite, in my opinion. I would find it tiresome to sink them, but at least they'd be using the ship to its best capabilites.. if you understand my logic here, using speed and manouverability (thinking for survivability), instead of tanking damage which they're not really supposed to be doing. (Not thinking for survivability) 

 

If the person was just sailing away, without thought for fighting or w/e then I'd be mad.

If in open world, I'd just be unhappy I missed a chance to steal some cargo, or to sink a privateer for another nation. Would also alter how much damage I'd do to sails/masts if it became a big issue.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Admaa

[DougieOh]

It's not 'running' most of the time, it's just sailing, and smart play.

 

I was sailing a Bellona in an engagement against a team with a ST.  As luck would have it my team kept the other team's frigates busy while I worked on the ST and finally sunk her.  Problem was that left me solo against a badly damaged Constitution, and three other ships in good condition - a Trincomolee, a Brig, and a Cutter.  

 

I smashed the Constitution's already wounded port side and then headed for the exit.  There is absolutely no reason - none - to stay in close and let a ship that is already sunk get another broadside or two into you.  

 

The four of them pursued, the Constitution tried several times to maneuver for a shot, but a slight change of angle and he was out of luck.  He sank soon after.  Then I slowed and mauled the Trincomolee's starboard side and again made sail.  At no time did I let the enemy swarm me because I kept a running engagement going.  Eventually the Trincomolee joined the Constitution on the bottom and then I picked the other two to pieces at my leisure.

 

That's not running.  That's not cowardice.  That's tactical acumen and seamanship.

[SirWili]

It's not 'running' most of the time, it's just sailing, and smart play.

 

I was sailing a Bellona in an engagement against a team with a ST.  As luck would have it my team kept the other team's frigates busy while I worked on the ST and finally sunk her.  Problem was that left me solo against a badly damaged Constitution, and three other ships in good condition - a Trincomolee, a Brig, and a Cutter.  

 

I smashed the Constitution's already wounded port side and then headed for the exit.  There is absolutely no reason - none - to stay in close and let a ship that is already sunk get another broadside or two into you.  

 

The four of them pursued, the Constitution tried several times to maneuver for a shot, but a slight change of angle and he was out of luck.  He sank soon after.  Then I slowed and mauled the Trincomolee's starboard side and again made sail.  At no time did I let the enemy swarm me because I kept a running engagement going.  Eventually the Trincomolee joined the Constitution on the bottom and then I picked the other two to pieces at my leisure.

 

That's not running.  That's not cowardice.  That's tactical acumen and seamanship.

And thats also not what people are talking about in this topic.

[MesserJocke]

I´ve seen a runner win a 1 vs 3 because he kited them nicely, nothing wrong about it.

 

[Similon]

It's not 'running' most of the time, it's just sailing, and smart play.

 

I was sailing a Bellona in an engagement against a team with a ST.  As luck would have it my team kept the other team's frigates busy while I worked on the ST and finally sunk her.  Problem was that left me solo against a badly damaged Constitution, and three other ships in good condition - a Trincomolee, a Brig, and a Cutter.  

 

I smashed the Constitution's already wounded port side and then headed for the exit.  There is absolutely no reason - none - to stay in close and let a ship that is already sunk get another broadside or two into you.  

 

The four of them pursued, the Constitution tried several times to maneuver for a shot, but a slight change of angle and he was out of luck.  He sank soon after.  Then I slowed and mauled the Trincomolee's starboard side and again made sail.  At no time did I let the enemy swarm me because I kept a running engagement going.  Eventually the Trincomolee joined the Constitution on the bottom and then I picked the other two to pieces at my leisure.

 

That's not running.  That's not cowardice.  That's tactical acumen and seamanship.

I´ve seen a runner win a 1 vs 3 because he kited them nicely, nothing wrong about it.

I may be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that this topic is referring to the people that just head in a straight line away from every other ship with no intention of fighting. You know, since that's what the other people were talking about

[Kaaru62]

yea, its about people that just run, no fighting back or anything, just run. I had a battle yesterday and someone ran from 4 of us. after about 5 minutes or so I put up I in chat to have fun chasing this guy. a couple battles later my buddies told me he did just what I said he would and they chased him for 30 minutes until the timer ran out without a shot being fired.

 

call it practice for the open world if you like, I call it lame.

 

p.s. there was also a battle where an opponent shot from the fringes, when his side lost he did not run, he charged us bravely and met an honorable demise.

[admin]

maybe we should speed up the circle at the end?

the less people are left the faster circle goes down?

[mouse of war]

 ?

Edited March 6, 2015 by mouse of war

[mouse of war]

we all see them, you can argue its practice for the open world, which is understandable. but in a closed arena, it just shows cowardice.

 

I can deal with rammers, I am one myself, I can deal with quitters, lots of reasons to quit a battle, but people that run in a closed arena I just cannot understand.

 

better to go down in a blaze of glory than to run and make people chase you all over the arena.

 

When badly out-gunned I do what any responsible captain would do - use my sailing skills to preserve my ship and crew. If this means running then so be it. 

[Hethwill]

maybe we should speed up the circle at the end?

the less people are left the faster circle goes down?

 

makes all sense for sea trials.

[Xander Tyrann]

maybe we should speed up the circle at the end?

the less people are left the faster circle goes down?

last night i had a very frustrating experience  where i had somewhat of a duel with my victory against a better player than me in a Bellona. i eventually won but it took me to the edge of the arena, then the arena started contracting and it was almost contracting as fast as i could move by that point in the match with no repairs, and despite having almost full armour, a short distance and 3 minutes to get back in, i still didn't manage to and we lost the fight. 

While i agree that people running can be a frustrating experience, getting caught out by game mechanics like this can be equally frustrating.

[admin]

For the open world battles running will not be a problem. 

We will have the following mechanic to partially solve the problem of runners

 

1) When you enter the battle you will receive the battle flag that will be active for lets say 2-5 minutes (time that is enough to get first shots into enemy)

2) After 5 minutes pass the countdown timer will start - lets say 2 minutes

3) If you inflicted or received no damage during this countdown you can then exit the battle with no penalties. 

 

so if someone is running from you you will be able to just exit the battle and get your ship out of the engagement.

 

 

 

For organized fleet battles (quick skirmish) improving win conditions that will not require full elimination of enemies will also partially solve the problem

[Crankey]

maybe we should speed up the circle at the end?

the less people are left the faster circle goes down?

 

As ships are more damaged toward the end of a match it would make it almost impossible for such ships to stay inside the circle even with a decent wind. A little water in the hull and a couple of masts damaged and your SOLS would be DC'd one after the other.

(BTW you need to fix the error that occurrs when someone DC's and reconnects as the circle does not reset properly. You are outside the zone but do not know)

 

Remove DC ships - auto surrender them or start everyone on the lip of the starting circle, that way as soon as the circle starts to reduce, those DC'd will be swallowed by the circle.

 

Victory options

How about a simple mechanic that prevents a single ship kiting half a dozen ships to gain a 'draw'. The might of the opposing fleet is destroyed a single ship could take news home of the defeat, not change the balance of power.

 

Victory Major- (Win Stat) End of battle Friendly fleet has + 60% higher surviving fleet than the enemy. (Hp or Hulls ?)

Victory Minor- (Win Stat) End of Battle Friendly fleet has + 25% higher surviving fleet than the enemy.

Draw- Both teams within 24.999999% of each other in strength at the end of the battle.

Loss Minor- (Loss Stat) End of Battle Enemy fleet has + 25% higher surviving fleet than yours.

Loss Major- (Loss Stat) End of Battle Enemy fleet has + 60% higher surviving fleet than yours.

 

This way a single kiting ship may make no odds to the end game result, merely a little more fun trying to catch him.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Crankey

[relic]

For the open world battles running will not be a problem. 

We will have the following mechanic to partially solve the problem of runners

 

1) When you enter the battle you will receive the battle flag that will be active for lets say 2-5 minutes (time that is enough to get first shots into enemy)

2) After 5 minutes pass the countdown timer will start - lets say 2 minutes

3) If you inflicted or received no damage during this countdown you can then exit the battle with no penalties. 

 

so if someone is running from you you will be able to just exit the battle and get your ship out of the engagement.

This might mean that people will just fit small long guns with a short reload on their bow and as long as one cannon ball hits the enemy they can never get away. Once you reach the arena border you would be forced to fight or surrender. This would pretty much make it impossible for merchants to run when their ships are of equal speed or even if the mechant's ship is slightly faster. I suppose we'll see how it works out in practise, but I suspect that trading will be pointless if this is the case.

 

By the way, I see no reason not to let people leave the battle if they've inflicted damage. You should be able to fire back at the enemy if he fires at you, even if you want to run away.

 

EDIT: I still don't think that runners are any real problem with the current system. Like I said earlier, in over 100 battles, I've never seen anyone run away to force a draw. Like Crankey said, if you speed up the closing border people will sink if they have damaged sails or even if they are undamaged if the wind is against them. It would start deciding battles by sinking entire teams.

The only real issue is disconnected players. I think that ships that have been disconnected more than a minute or two should start to sink once everyone else on their team is dead. Easy simple fix.

Edited March 6, 2015 by relic

[Prater]

I've seen several people run away in the last couple of months. Doesn't happen too often though.

The arena zone wasn't originally there and is supposed to be temporary(IIRC). It was added in because there were people who would run away and claim that they were testing the running mechanics and you would chase them for 50 minutes and never catch them. I assume the zone will be removed on open world so people can run away, and I hope it is removed, even when I assume I will be doing quite a bit of chasing.

[Naxos]

Different cases of "running" are possible

 

sailing away from a superior ship while having chances to win the match= kiting

 

staying/sailing away from the main battle =

 

Being the last ship alive against superior forces and running = that sucks for all players wanting to end the match. No point to stay alive, just turn in and fire a last broadside or play torpedo (-many guys know what that means )

[Prater]

In my opinion, kiting != (does not equal) running.  Running is when you are purposefully heading away from enemy ships and staying out of range for either you or the enemy to shoot, you are purposefully staying out of combat and drawing the match out to the timer.  Typically, your team has been killed, and you are trying to force a draw by running instead of taking the defeat.

[Megiddo]

Last night another Conny and I were trying to stay out of range from a Vic, taking his sails/masts down.  We were doing quite well, but it got to the point where had we had another hour it would have worked.    Once demasted we would have come in a worked his stern.

 

So after 40 minutes I just said what the heck, lets just go in and take our beating.   Game over.

 

So I don't consider that running.   He did ask how long we were going to keep this up.   I understand from his perspective.   I might have said the same.