Sea Trials

[Henry Long Castle]

So far, whenever I wanted to test my speed (or other things) in a ship before I take it to battle i had to tag an AI in Mortimer collect my data and be out in 3 minutes to drink some tea in the dock.
With the new patch that total of 3 mins is now 8 mins I believe, which is perfectly fine for combat but a bit too much for speed trials.

So here is my suggestion. 

Just like we have the ability to jump into any of the exams/tutorials at any time, what if there was a similar "room" that we could jump with the ship we have selected and just do some sea trials!

We could test our speed, reload, manual sailing, repairs, boarding, anything pretty much while being able to jump out at any given time.

I  can elaborate on how testing something as boarding could go for example if need but so far I would like to know what you think of my idea so far


UPDATE: I have made the same post here. If you like the idea please up-vote it there as well!

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Henry Long Castle

[ditsch]

I think that sounds like a pretty brilliant idea, i would really appreciate a feature like this

[mikawa]

I proposed something similar a long time ago. It could also be useful for gunnery training - why not let players train a bit / check speeds / check turn times / etc. while sailing long and mostly boring routes in open world?

[Wraith]

We had this for a long time in rooms (small/large battles, duel, and tournament rooms) that offered simple matchmaking and the ability to just pop open a battle instance... But for some inexplicable reason it was removed.

These offered bar none the best way to train up new players, help people learn how to manual sail, do in-clan PvP training, etc. I think at the time some rationale was given about wanting to get people out on the OW but all it did was drive people away that wanted this kind of pick-up-and-play content for battles... It would be great if we could get it back if for nothing else being able to do the kind of testing you described.

[Puchu]

Ohhh you are not talking about "Sea trials" ... you are talking about a testing room.

Because holy smokes i was gone for years and now i join the forum and someone is still talking about Seatrials which made my heart raise!

So about your issue:

We have suggested that for 5 years now in countless posts. Here is the reason why something like that is not there:

1. Main reason: Admin says that that would take a server. The company doesn't want to pay for a server. So there is no duel, testing, fighting, fun, anything ... room. 

2. Additional reason used to obscure reason 1. "It would take people out of the open world." ... Actually... people who would be playing that kind of arena style gameplay would not be on the open world anyways, but ... thats the reason that is given for why there is no testing or dueling or training room of any kind.

Overall:

It's all about the money. Admin even said 2 years ago that they would look into it, if we players would pay for the needed server, but he never specified how much a server and all that would cost, so it never became reality.

There are some who would pay for a room like that which allowed them to tweak game mechanics like: "No Shiploss." (That's the main one) and "Decide your own ship" and go for some quick no loss pvp or some testing of game mechanics.

But that discussion is 5 years old... basically it's been here since "Sea trials". 

There even was a test Arena version of this game "Naval Action Legends", which had such frustrating grind mechanics implemented into it that not even the most hardcore players wanted to grind that up. The Admins conclusion was: Noone likes an Arena version of this game.

To many players if felt like this:

Icecream man: Hey Kids, do you want Icecream?

Kids: (Jump happily up and down) Yea we would love Icecream!

Icecream man: (Takes icecream and smears dogshit all over it.) Here, for you.

Kids: Uargks thats disgusting. We dont want this! (Kids run away.)

Icecream man to himself: See...  the truth is:  Kids don't like icecream!

-Closes the icecream van and leaves-

 

So: There will not be any testing room. Not now, not ever. Scratch that idea from your mind. We've tried and we failed.

[Henry Long Castle]

27 minutes ago, Puchu said:

There will not be any testing room. Not now, not ever. Scratch that idea from your mind. We've tried and we failed.

However the testing room I have in my head doesnt involve other people being able to be in the same room. Simply a similar style room like we get in the tutorials/exams.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Henry Long Castle

[admin]

44 minutes ago, Puchu said:

to obscure reason

Memory is very selective
Puchu probably forgot that we had a small/large battle room after release in 2016 and had it for a while.

 

Was not it during the time when online fell from peak 5000 to 300? Right Puchu?

There are no obscure reasons as you claim. There is only one reason now:  This is an MMO and players must see a certain experience right from the start.

Small battles/large battles gave players wrong impressions and went against the feeling of vastness and emptiness of the sea full of danger or calm.
People forget (conveniently) that first sea trials were empty 2 months after launch and the second attempt with rooms had the same fate after launch, and the legends ended up empty as well. Yet OW is keeping players 10x better.

You know why? Because vast empty ocean is calling for the soul, distilled lobby shit is just condensed sugar water.

There are plenty of ways to duel now, but every duel must have the risk of other people interfering. This IS the game.

[Corona Lisa]

11 minutes ago, admin said:

Memory is very selective
Puchu probably forgot that we had a small/large battle room after release in 2016 and had it for a while.

 

And so is your quote of his post.

48 minutes ago, Puchu said:

2. Additional reason used to obscure reason 1. "It would take people out of the open world."

While his time frame might be wrong this was your argument why small battles got closed.

[HachiRoku]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Memory is very selective
Puchu probably forgot that we had a small/large battle room after release in 2016 and had it for a while.

 

Was not it during the time when online fell from peak 5000 to 300? Right Puchu?

There are no obscure reasons as you claim. There is only one reason now:  This is an MMO and players must see a certain experience right from the start.

Small battles/large battles gave players wrong impressions and went against the feeling of vastness and emptiness of the sea full of danger or calm.
People forget (conveniently) that first sea trials were empty 2 months after launch and the second attempt with rooms had the same fate after launch, and the legends ended up empty as well. Yet OW is keeping players 10x better.

You know why? Because vast empty ocean is calling for the soul, distilled lobby shit is just condensed sugar water.

There are plenty of ways to duel now, but every duel must have the risk of other people interfering. This IS the game.

You have to forgive some of us older players for being a pain in the ass because although we are a loud minority we did buy and play the game when it was a completely different game. We loved the lobby and the duels and not having loads of mods etc and repairs. Sea trials was a bad game compared to NA in almost every way but in some ways seal trials and early NA were better for us. Duels in naval action were the single most engaging thing this game ever had to offer for me and a few others. 2 captains playing a game of inteligence for 2.5 hours without all these insane bonuses etc. It was simple but it worked.  You gave us something we loved and then removed it. We do not have the luxury of going to another developer for this because noone knows how to make a naval game like you. It might be shit for you but that shit was the best gaming I have had in 30 years. 

[AeRoTR]

There still should be, "invite to duel" option in ow. 

Would make the game 10x better. 

[admin]

5 hours ago, Corona Lisa said:

And so is your quote of his post.

While his time frame might be wrong this was your argument why small battles got closed.

And? 
We concur that is also one of the reasons. 
I have no plans to add small battles because we want people to be in the open world and not in small battles lobby. 
 

[admin]

3 hours ago, AeRoTR said:

There still should be, "invite to duel" option in ow. 

Would make the game 10x better. 

No. because people will use it to hide from chases.
Most great ideas in MMOs die by exploits.

Like battlechat removal next patch. Player reports giving my people PTSD.

[Jarlath Morrow]

Great idea Henry.

A room like this would be great for speed testing, getting the feel of a ship's weight and nimbleness/sluggishness, or just for checking out a new ship paint in a more dynamic setting.

[jodgi]

3 hours ago, admin said:

 we want people to be in the open world and not in small battles lobby. 

Translated to jodgi-speak: "We want people to spend inordinate amounts of time to cash out fun instead of simply instantly cash out fun.

2 hours ago, admin said:

Most great ideas in MMOs die by exploits.

Yea, I've been suspicious of the direct and indirect qualities of sandbox-RPG-MMO's for quite some time now. hello kitty me for wanting to enjoy the best things about this game instead of dealing with the worst things, right?

Hi, @Puchu... Mmmwoaahh!

I've also always loved @HachiRoku, but I love the current version of hachi the most.

Edited June 11, 2020 by jodgi

[Sea Archer]

I don't know where this game is going to. While some game mechanics and a lot of battle features have definitely improved, something is going wrong with the rest of the game.

I started playing in 2016 and I really enjoyed the game. You could add one mod to your ship, like extra planking, and that was all. No books or ship knowledge. We had a nice crafting system and the possibility to chat with everyone in OW.

If you would offer me the 2016 game with todays battle mechanics, I would be happy to buy it again, but the current version starts to frustrate me.

[Henry Long Castle]

Nice to see how a thread about Sea Trials/Testing Room, grew into discussing all sort of things like global chat removal XD

[qw569😳]

On 6/11/2020 at 12:52 AM, admin said:

I have no plans to add small battles because we want people to be in the open world and not in small battles lobby.

rofl

That's why you are implemented wind, patrol zones and loki rune.

Wind and patrol zones decrease amount of time when player are in OW.  Loki rune teleported players in battle instance.

[admin]

12 minutes ago, qw569😳 said:

rofl

That's why you are implemented wind, patrol zones and loki rune.

Wind and patrol zones decrease amount of time when player are in OW.  Loki rune teleported players in battle instance.

rolling on the floor?
wind - saves time but you are still in OW - you are still a target)
patrol zones - you still have to sail there (its not a lobby) - its a quest zone IN THE OW - you are a target 
Loki - makes OW PVE more interesting and dangerous for someone in the OW - you are still a target for someone in the OW

What is exactly your point? 

[Anolytic]

17 minutes ago, admin said:

While you are rolling on the floor its probably hard to see the drawing board. 
I will help you 
wind - saves time but you are still in OW
patrol zones - you still have to get there - its a quest zone IN THE OW
Loki - makes OW PVE more interesting and dangerous (its not on PVE)

What is exactly your point?

As someone who voiced varying degrees of scepticism of all of these three mechanics, I submit that in my experience and to a greater extent from observing behaviour and feedback from members of my clan and nation these points are all true.

Wind boosts - bring people faster between hotspots for PvP (PvP happens most often at either end of a journey, near the departure or the destination, and windboosts lessen the time players spend on the journey between contact points). Wind boosts also serve as ambush locations where people wait for passers-by. Which is negative, but positive also as it makes the windboosts themselves hotspots for PvP.

Patrol Zones - I never liked them personally (mainly because of the RoE), but they serve their purpose and the people who enjoy them spend a lot of time sailing around them (in OW).

Lokis - are interesting as you say. I would only hope that they would be fixed so that players cannot escape battle with the AI ship they lokied, but can exit the battle and hand the ship back to the control of the AI. And also that we get back the full reward for sinking lokis (PvP-mission) which made lokis much more tolerable to the victim.

[Hittings]

21 minutes ago, admin said:

rolling on the floor?
wind - saves time but you are still in OW - you are still a target)
patrol zones - you still have to sail there (its not a lobby) - its a quest zone IN THE OW - you are a target 
Loki - makes OW PVE more interesting and dangerous for someone in the OW - you are still a target for someone in the OW

What is exactly your point? 

Loki's should force you to loki into a ship at least at 75% structure...whats the point of using a loki to get into a ship that is sinking which is all to common.   You want to make it dangerous, then give them a chance to make it dangerous.

[qw569😳]

15 minutes ago, admin said:

wind - saves time but you are still in OW - you are still a target)

Wind Zone decrease time when I'm a target

15 minutes ago, admin said:

patrol zones - you still have to sail there (its not a lobby) - its a quest zone IN THE OW - you are a target

Did you remember you post about realism? Why we need useless move in OW to enter in battle instance.

34 minutes ago, admin said:

Loki - makes OW PVE more interesting and dangerous for someone in the OW - you are still a target for someone in the OW

I look to Loki rune from another side

[Sea Archer]

Maybe I am not the player you designed the game for, but I liked the 2016 bigger map with slower ship and without the wind boosts. To reduce travelling time, we had the possibility to ship cargo between free towns from where you had to sail it to your crafting port. We had many small cargo ships (trader lynx and trader cutters) as coastal traffic, which were good targets for new players.

Imo gameplay was a way more relaxed, not immediate danger at every corner nor wind boosted enemies jumping you, but still enough pvp to be challenging. 

That was the game I really liked, imo this "we have to get fast pvp"-attitude is not what makes this game great.

[Henry Long Castle]

3 hours ago, Hittings said:

Loki's should force you to loki into a ship at least at 75% structure...whats the point of using a loki to get into a ship that is sinking which is all to common.   You want to make it dangerous, then give them a chance to make it dangerous.

He had the chance to be dangerous but chose to run away for 5 mins and quit...

[Puchu]

4 hours ago, admin said:

rolling on the floor?
wind - saves time but you are still in OW - you are still a target)
patrol zones - you still have to sail there (its not a lobby) - its a quest zone IN THE OW - you are a target 
Loki - makes OW PVE more interesting and dangerous for someone in the OW - you are still a target for someone in the OW

 

In general it's like this: If i dont want to fight, i dont have to fight. It doesnt matter if im on the ow or not. I can make fights so boring for the attacker, that he gives up. Eventually. Any half decent player can avoid any fights they dont want to take. Only noobs get pushed into fights they cant avoid, which punishes noobs even harder.

There are some fights that you cannot avoid though. That is by design. You cant avoid being jumped in missions. I was fighting an ai ocean in my trinc, when another vic joined the enemy side... like ... really? Ofc i ran away. 1h time wasted. My search time, my time hitting the 1strate and my time running away. What stays is the feeling of wasted time and toxicity towards the guy who jumped me. That's a feeling that creates toxicity.

 

I have to ask. What do you want people to do? Do you want them to sail on the OW or do you want them to fight each other? You can't have both. This is a game, so people will allways try to minmax their time and enjoyment. I love fighting, but if i have to spend 20h of real life time to gain 30mins of semi fun, then the balance for me is off. If i can hop onto the game, hop in a quick battle and hop off again and be happy if i won or lost, then i will consider my time well spent. 

There are many reasons why people play games. All of it have to do with the feeling of "time well spent". If people have the feeling that they didnt spend their time well, then they will become toxic. That will lead to bad reviews.

I dont mind getting jumped by a superior player, ship or fleet, if i have e.g. an abundance of ships. Or if I still have a way to come out ahead by skillful playing. It's all about the loosers experience. If the looser has a great time, even when loosing then there will be almost no toxicity. Just the lost pride, but actually if you have fought a real good opponent who won by skill, and you had a great time and wont regret the decision to fight, then you will say: "gj man, great fight. you totally outplayed me. I learned so much this fight. let's fight again." 

It's in your hands to design a game in a way that the loosers are happy. Making winners happy is easy. Making loosers happy is what's the real challenge and what keeps games alive and thriving.

[Puchu]

54 minutes ago, Henry Long Castle said:

He had the chance to be dangerous but chose to run away for 5 mins and quit...

Because he gained more from that than what he would have, had he stayed and fought.

The fear of loosing said ship made him run. The enjoyment of the fight was not enough to overcome the fear of loss. So no content happened. Not for him, not for you. You lost and you are sad now. 

He won the price, but not the fight. he is happy now. He would be even more happy, had he fought and killed you. But the fear of loss drove him away from that.

Wouldn't it be great if the game was designed in such a way that he would stay and fight you even though he might loose the fight?

Edited June 12, 2020 by Puchu