Port Bonus for all - for a clan set CRAFTING tax on crafting materials ! Pls read

[Earl of Grey]

1 minute ago, Staunberg said:

You lose port bonus if you get removed, even if you have invested in it.

Yep it was and by god did that give more pb’s. We also made ships expensive because it should hurt to lose ships. All actually make sence in a war game. Unfortunally only very few want to play a war game.

Not correct, you keep PB for all already existing shipyards ... Only new shipyards dont get the PBs ... 

[Earl of Grey]

4 minutes ago, Staunberg said:

You are 100 % sure abouth that?

 

Quote admin:

• "Once you build the facility you will be able to use it even if you are kicked from clan  or alliance (provided you are in the same nation)."

 

 

[Sir Max Magic]

1 hour ago, Gilles de Rais said:

 

Quote admin:

• "Once you build the facility you will be able to use it even if you are kicked from clan  or alliance (provided you are in the same nation)."

 

 

I also readed this, but understood it the way, that this goes only for Ex-Clanmembers...and not outsiders being removed from the friends list...but dont know ?

22 minutes ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

He is definitely wrong. I tested it and lost portbonuses immediately after leaving clan. You still can produce resources your old clan invested in, if you have already built a building for.

...and there we already have the answer  

 

Nevertheless, in the current system, People are dependant on the mercy of big clans getting on their friend list on one hand...and on the other hand, Clans dont know how much People or Clans on their Friend List helped with the actual Port Infrastructure  

Following my system, the whole process gets automated and everyone who wants to build his ships there, have to pay the tax...pretty simple and no talking and begging needed  

Edited September 6, 2019 by Sir Max Magic

[Sir Max Magic]

14 minutes ago, Staunberg said:

But that didnt answer the question. Why should a player, that have helped build the port, and then been removed from the clan list, have to pay a tax for something,he allready have bought?

Ah sorry, overlooked your statement in the first place...

 

Yeah, you are right, that isnt fair !  

(But as a sidenote, taking the Clan Perspective: it could be that a Player got removed from Clan just BECAUSE he didnt took part in building the Port Infrastructure, he just wanted to get the benefits and letting others do the work ! In this case, removing him and taking away his privileges would be correct  )

 

But atleast, if this system would get introduced, you atleast would get your ability back to craft the same ships like before PLUS your investment in a fully upgraded shipyard wouldnt be lost like it is now PLUS last but not least, your allocated mats will not rotting anymore senseless in this mentionend port, because you again have use for it

 

In my view, a big step forward to the current situation, where one would lose everything...for whatever reason  

Edited September 6, 2019 by Sir Max Magic

[Angus MacDuff]

This is something that I have mentioned on several occasions.  There should be no Friendly Clan list for the purpose of PB.  All players who wish to take advantage of port bonuses should have to Buy in to the port with the buy in going to the owning clan.  Once they have paid (and it should be expensive) they cannot be removed.  The owning clan still controls all investment into the port and since individual players are paying, they will have a very good reason to assist in defending the port. 

[Sir Max Magic]

7 minutes ago, Staunberg said:

And with a 100 % tax for players not on clan list, guess they simply can’t afford ships. But the clan owners can trow away ships just for fun. Make the ships wont bring back players.

oh all you need to get trowen of a clan list is that you wont follow every demand from the port owner.

Mate, nobody says it has to be a 100% tax !

Like it is now, Clans can already set up a tax from 10 - 100% of all what is traded in this specific port...but who would trade in a Port which Tax is set up to 100% ?  

Like it is in everything in this game, also the Tax will be part of the overall competition and People will build their Ships in Port with lesser taxes...if only one Clan owns the best PB in a nation, it is their right to set up a Tax they think, they deserve...whether people will pay that Tax or move to another, cheaper, Port is then part of the business...

 

But cant see why this would be contradictive to the whole idea? The situation we have now is much worser for the majority of Players  

 

[Angus MacDuff]

Just now, Sir Max Magic said:

if only one Clan owns the best PB in a nation, it is their right to set up a Tax they think, they deserve

This is what I disagree with.  The fact that one person (or a small group) can affect someone else's game play this much.  The ability to craft your own ships is too important to be impacted by the whim of another player.  A buy in system, as I mentioned earlier, would add good income to the owning clan's bank and still not allow the clan leader to modify another player's game.

[Sir Max Magic]

24 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

This is what I disagree with.  The fact that one person (or a small group) can affect someone else's game play this much.  The ability to craft your own ships is too important to be impacted by the whim of another player.  A buy in system, as I mentioned earlier, would add good income to the owning clan's bank and still not allow the clan leader to modify another player's game.

...and i have to agree with you in this point...atleast in theory 

 

I am just desperatly trying to find a BALANCE between the interests of Big Clans on one hand and smaller Clans/Solo/fresh Players on the other hand...

 

And you know, nothing gets decided in this game against the interests of big clans ! So to have atleast a chance for a change, you have to have the big clans on your side...  

...and therefore i think, if one Clan conquered the best Port, maxed it out and defended it against all odds, yeah, they might have the right to demand what they think...whether Players are ready to pay this just to get a 55 Point PB Ship... or move to the next rivalry clan, who have a much lower tax...well thats everyones own decision

 

But i agree again:

a buy-in like you proposed would be a good alternative but big clans could argue that either this BUY-IN would be too low against their combined effort or if it would fit their effort, it would be too expensive and nobody would buy it or, even worse, call them greedy in nation chat and put so even more salt into the ocean  

 

My system wouldnt hurt one time so badly, but would garantue the owners of the Port a CONSTANT influx to support them !

 

But i could live with both solutions ! Everything is better than now...i just think, my system could be introduced without much coding needed ( @admin, @Ink ???) because tax system of clan owned Ports is already in place

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Sir Max Magic

[Atreides]

I quite like this idea, of having access to the benefits but being required to pay the additional surcharges to the owning clan.  I will give a hypothetical example of a situation whereby the current system could really negatively affect a clan whose leader is a royal ass to the leader of the port owning clan.  Let's say Mr Harkonnen is the leader of SLUG clan, and they are the clan that owns Salamanca.  Salamanca is a 55 point port that makes ships with all the fancy bonuses.  Clan USUL (my clan) has 6 shipwrights with level 3 shipyards in Salamanca producing blingy ships.  Now during some afternoon port battle, I rage at Mr Harkonnen, who was not paying attention and he rams me during a fleet tack and I get stuck in chains and get rage boarded and I lose my full health gold 5 slot super L'Ocean.  I rage at him calling foul names, he rages at me calling me worse and so on.  He removes USUL as a friendly clan and EVERY member of my clan lose all crafting bonuses. 

With the system you are advocating,  such petty squabbles would not nerf the power of a nation's crafters, on the whim of a clan leader.  There would be a penance exacted, but it would not SHUT DOWN META ship production.  Nations with more than 15 clans also put a burden on clan leaders who are approached by newer clans, and they have to agonise over wht clan to drop becuase clan ABC has been busting it's ass protecting Clan SLUG traders.  The friendly clan list should be done away with, in it's place there should be the Clan BLACK list, as in what clans are denied full building rights without paying extra duties to the owning clan.  The list is a negative, and as implimented is unnecessarily ponderous.  make it a naughty list, it will be much smaller, and easier to deal with from both sides.

[Earl of Grey]

6 hours ago, Atreides said:

  Clan USUL (my clan) has 6 shipwrights with level 3 shipyards in Salamanca producing blingy ships.  Now during some afternoon port battle, I rage at Mr Harkonnen, who was not paying attention and he rams me during a fleet tack and I get stuck in chains and get rage boarded and I lose my full health gold 5 slot super L'Ocean.  I rage at him calling foul names, he rages at me calling me worse and so on.  He removes USUL as a friendly clan and EVERY member of my clan lose all crafting bonuses. 

With the system you are advocating,  such petty squabbles would not nerf the power of a nation's crafters, on the whim of a clan leader. 

Very good example. How many players will just scrap their shipyard and rebuild it somewhere else (given the Nation has another crafting port where he is in the friendslist) ? Bet 8 of 10 players just quit ... maybe they returns after weeks or months ...

[Sir Max Magic]

12 hours ago, Atreides said:

I quite like this idea, of having access to the benefits but being required to pay the additional surcharges to the owning clan.  I will give a hypothetical example of a situation whereby the current system could really negatively affect a clan whose leader is a royal ass to the leader of the port owning clan.  Let's say Mr Harkonnen is the leader of SLUG clan, and they are the clan that owns Salamanca.  Salamanca is a 55 point port that makes ships with all the fancy bonuses.  Clan USUL (my clan) has 6 shipwrights with level 3 shipyards in Salamanca producing blingy ships.  Now during some afternoon port battle, I rage at Mr Harkonnen, who was not paying attention and he rams me during a fleet tack and I get stuck in chains and get rage boarded and I lose my full health gold 5 slot super L'Ocean.  I rage at him calling foul names, he rages at me calling me worse and so on.  He removes USUL as a friendly clan and EVERY member of my clan lose all crafting bonuses. 

With the system you are advocating,  such petty squabbles would not nerf the power of a nation's crafters, on the whim of a clan leader.  There would be a penance exacted, but it would not SHUT DOWN META ship production.  Nations with more than 15 clans also put a burden on clan leaders who are approached by newer clans, and they have to agonise over wht clan to drop becuase clan ABC has been busting it's ass protecting Clan SLUG traders.  The friendly clan list should be done away with, in it's place there should be the Clan BLACK list, as in what clans are denied full building rights without paying extra duties to the owning clan.  The list is a negative, and as implimented is unnecessarily ponderous.  make it a naughty list, it will be much smaller, and easier to deal with from both sides.

Agree absolutely +1

...regarding the drama which is evolving around much lesser important issues on a daily basis in NA, gives th current system too much power to the hand of single individuals...period

 

My or a similar system on the other hand, takes away personalities involved and replace this with an automated system

 

But thy for your answer  

[Atreides]

delete, numpty moment

Edited September 9, 2019 by Atreides
blah

[Sir Max Magic]

1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

Honestly, the taxes will never compensate the high amount of doubloons and combat marks made by the owners.

Also the proposals here would benefit a lot the alt clans. 

 

 

To your first point, a tax up to 100% for EVERY ship built by non Clanmembers (Friendlisters), sorry, i fail to see how this shouldnt contribute more than enough for the owning clan ??

Think about hundreds of ships would be built there over time ! This would be a massive influx, and will turn out to be a good business for the owning clan, maybe overtime even surpassing the initial investment...  

 

To your second point, can you pls elaborate how this should work out?

[Mezcolanza]

I like the concept of the original post but would prefer the tax be paid in doubloons and reals rather than in materials. That way, the crafters become like the clan's customers. The clan can abuse their tenants with unreasonably high taxes but that may ultimately backfire. The benefit of the clan is they would not have to grind nearly as much to maintain timers and obtain doubloons for further upgrades and to improve more ports.

[Sir Max Magic]

On 9/10/2019 at 1:57 AM, Mezcolanza said:

I like the concept of the original post but would prefer the tax be paid in doubloons and reals rather than in materials. That way, the crafters become like the clan's customers. The clan can abuse their tenants with unreasonably high taxes but that may ultimately backfire. The benefit of the clan is they would not have to grind nearly as much to maintain timers and obtain doubloons for further upgrades and to improve more ports.

Thank you for your support mate  

I could live with your suggestion but i may ask whether my original idea with Dubloons, reals AND materials wouldnt suit the needs of clans better... ??

 

[Mezcolanza]

1 hour ago, Sir Max Magic said:

Thank you for your support mate  

I could live with your suggestion but i may ask whether my original idea with Dubloons, reals AND materials wouldnt suit the needs of clans better... ??

 

Certainly having  materials included in the tax would be great for the owning clans. However, I felt like it would make it TOO GREAT for the owning clans meaning they could dedicate less ports to farming ship building materials and dedicate even more ports to their conquest plans. It would also, in my opinion, make the option TOO EXPENSIVE for the solo players and small clans that I think your suggestion intends to help.

We don't want port owners to be able to build their ships almost for free because the solos and small clans are paying completely for it.

[Harting]

Just drop the silly "clan friends" list completely.   The bonuses apply to the port, or they don't.   

Stop encouraging politics and enforcing a limit on the number of clans that a nation can have.

[Sir Max Magic]

14 hours ago, Harting said:

Just drop the silly "clan friends" list completely.   The bonuses apply to the port, or they don't.   

Stop encouraging politics and enforcing a limit on the number of clans that a nation can have.

Agree +1

Your point was one of the main reasons i developed my suggestion:

It cant be that a clan stands over the whole nation, e.g. its more worthy  

The game is marketed to have major historic nations, which rules the sea and, most important, NATIONS battle each other...now its more that clans are competing and sometimes even inside one nation !

This has to get stopped, by one way or the other

My above made suggestion offers a nice solution to get both: strong clans which dont compete each other and strong nations as a whole

[John Hill Regard]

On 9/6/2019 at 10:46 AM, Hethwill said:

Community asked for clan control so their infrastructure would not be "infected" by meta-alt gameplay.

As with everything, it has benign and adverse results.

Which community are you talking about ????

Every player's i speak with disagree with the clan control .

And clan control  doesn't solve Alt problem's ....Look at Cabo Canaveral an open Pirat port controled by Russian Alt's and there 'is nothing the nation can do because it is "clan contoled" and clan leader do what he want ...even shit on shoe's of the rest of the Nation.....

Clan control perhaps but Nation should have a stronger conter-power...

So please don't speak for the Community ....

And this port bonus controlled by a single person lead to the birth of  little's dictator's....The Community you speak about should de the 50 or 60 vétéran that are slowly killing the game.

Give this bonus to player's (crafter ) by a tec tree ...the game miss content ....give content and interrest to solo and they will probably stay longer in the game  

Cheer's

 

[Papillon]

Nations should dominate this game.  Not clans.  100% agree.  Clan control causes more toxic play, not less.  But devs seem ok with that, and this is what we got.  Unfortunately.

Pirates in the AoS are the only group you could consider a clan.  Ironically, the devs have made them a nation, and made the nations into clans.

[Hethwill]

32 minutes ago, John Hill Regard said:

Which community are you talking about ????

Everyone that uses the forum to communicate with the devs and other players since the project started.

 

[Eyesore]

3 hours ago, Intrepido said:

And many alts taking advantage of the efforts of others if you delete clan lists.

Devs changed their focus from nations to clans due to trolls and alts. 

Reverting that policy is a big mistake.

And how exactly does the current system stop alts from joining a clan on a friendlist and just go 'inactive'?  Perhaps look around and open your eyes? Some clans on friendlists are full of known alts from other nationplayers.   This only helps to alienate or make acces needlessly harder for new and normal players.

If clans want to have the bonusses, then why can't each clan develop it's own portbonusses? There aren't enough ports to be claimed for each group of people that want to play as a clan, essentially blocking some honest groups/players from accessing a necessairy part of this game.

Hard work develloping a port ... hmmm, again, clans wanted everything for themselves, many/most people didn't even have a chance to help with the development ... but still, known alts can be found all around showing up in clans on friendlists ... funny that is.

It doesn't matter what the intention was to implement this ... the goal was clearly not fulfilled and this reasoning even added extra hurdles for normal players.

And clans wonder why they don't find players to do rvr  🙂  or just simply stop playing.  Feel a bit less entitled maybe?

[Harting]

There’s only one reason for me to join a clan whatsoever - the port bonuses.  Without that, I’m playing for the nation I chose. 

 

Re: the alts argument - if somebody wants to pay for a second copy of the game, and build a ship, and transport it to their main nation, and use it... I don’t care. They paid the port taxes, collecting all those mats, and permits, and guns, and reps, and I get to sink that ship later.  What’s more, this is no different than a nation player moving ships to a freetown, for sale. 

[Sir Max Magic]

1 hour ago, Harting said:

There’s only one reason for me to join a clan whatsoever - the port bonuses.  Without that, I’m playing for the nation I chose. 

 

Re: the alts argument - if somebody wants to pay for a second copy of the game, and build a ship, and transport it to their main nation, and use it... I don’t care. They paid the port taxes, collecting all those mats, and permits, and guns, and reps, and I get to sink that ship later.  What’s more, this is no different than a nation player moving ships to a freetown, for sale. 

Agree +1

I never got that all-time argument because alts would do this or that, so gaming rules has to get changed accordingly !

I never had an alt nor will i ever have one, but i dont see all those problems many are referring too... maybe because for lack of knowledge or because i dont care  

But for what i care, are badly designend rules which hurts EVERYONE, especially "normal" Players who dont care for RvR, who just want to play the game relaxed

[John Hill Regard]

16 hours ago, Hethwill said:

16 hours ago, John Hill Regard said:

Which community are you talking about ????

Everyone that uses the forum to communicate with the devs and other players since the project started

Very Good answer....

Continue to believe very hard on what you say and may be one day it will happen ...unfortunatly this day you will probably moderate a 300 players (150 ALT) game forum.

Cheer's