Sir Max Magic Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 (edited) Hi Guys, @admin and @Ink, EDIT by 09.10.19: Being in a big Clan and enjoying all the benefits it gives to you, i still stand to my proposal ! Thinking about every argument possible, i still believe its up to now the best idea for a compromise to the welfare of all: - big clans keep their well deserved advantage cause they captured, invested heavily in infrastructure and most importantly, constantly defend their home territory ! - smaller clans and solo Players who cant make it all to the friendlist, can use the benefits of Ports BUT have to pay their share when crafting good ships via the tax system ! ...and contribute to the effort of the owning clan by every ship they build there ---> this way Port Bonusses are no problem anymore and can stay like they are (or even increased again to their initial numbers) following Idea to bring the small clan/solo Players interests in line with the ones of bigger clans regarding PORT BONUS: 1. Whoever builts a Shipyard in a Port gets the Port Bonus 2. To give the clan which built up the Port Infrastructure a compensation for their hard work, the Clan Leader set up a CRAFTING TAX in the range of 10% - 100% of the crafting ingredients necessary to build a specific ship ! 3. In order to build a Ship, everyone not in clan or on its friend list, needs the usual amount of crafting materials + the CRAFTING TAX 4. Those excess crafting materials goes directly into the clan warehouse ! Problem solved ! 1. Small Clans and Solo Players can also craft themselves fine Ships without the need to get on the specific Clan Friend List (...and stay on there...) 2. Clans can get this way their immense investment back and/or can get help for further investments into the Ports infrastructure Cheers Edit (06.09.19): One argument not mentionend until this point in the discussion, just stroke my mind: If a change would come like suggested, ALL players in one nation would have again an incentive to take part in Port Battles eg. Screening because they want to defend their "own" Port, because they would loose all their mats already allocated in this Port and their upgraded Shipyard...same like the attacked Clan ! This means, NATION and Clans would get reunitated Nowadays, they take Part in Screening only because of national pride, but they risk either competitive ships bought from big clans for insane pricing or arent competitive in Screening because they take Part in non competitive Ships at all... ---> This would be again like it was 2 or 3 years ago when Ports had their distinctive advantages and the whole nation tried everything to defend the precious ones ! It was a NATIONAL task to defend and conquer those important regions...not just a task for a single clan... Edited October 9, 2019 by Sir Max Magic 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Max Magic Posted August 11, 2019 Author Share Posted August 11, 2019 (edited) Following Example to build a Live Oak/White Oak Bellona in a Clan runned Port: USUAL amount of crafting materials needed: Resources Oak Log 438 Fir Log 236 Hemp 99 Iron Ore 90 Lignum Vitae Log 20 Stone Block 49 Coal 68 Live Oak Log 879 White Oak Log 385 Extra Doubloons 4 148 Provisions 650 Permit 1 Craft level 4 Shipyard level 3 Labour hours 1 099 Craft experience 2 122 with a CRAFTING TAX set to the maximum of 100%, a Crafter NOT in Clan or on its Friend List, needs to build the same Bellona: Resources Oak Log 876 Fir Log 472 Hemp 198 Iron Ore 180 Lignum Vitae Log 40 Stone Block 98 Coal 136 Live Oak Log 1758 White Oak Log 770 Extra Doubloons 8296 Provisions 1300 Permit 1 Craft level 4 Shipyard level 3 Labour hours 1 099 Craft experience 2 122 ...i think, you got it Win - Win situation for everybody in my view Edited September 6, 2019 by Sir Max Magic 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Max Magic Posted August 11, 2019 Author Share Posted August 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Intrepido said: Or just increase the clan list limit. Yeah...but this doesnt prevent a Clan leader to remove a small clan or Solo Players from "his" list --- if something happened between them or for any other reason ...even when this specific clan or Solo Player helped massively during the Port Build Up ! Noone can prevent Clan leaders to remove People from this List Following my Idea, the whole process gets automated without the danger of personal things could happen and the "work" someone outside the clan has to do for using the Ports Infrastructure, is measurable for both sides 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Max Magic Posted August 15, 2019 Author Share Posted August 15, 2019 (edited) Guys, please...even when most of the forum writers are part of more of the bigger clans, give small clans and especially solo players some love You cant complain on one hand that playerbase is decreasing again and reject on the other hand good ideas to give the latter part of the playerbase a possibility to be competotive !! Nowhere is it written and never was it in the past 3 years that solo players had a distinctive ingame built disadvanatge like it is since the introduction of Port Bonusses...their life was hard enough without the help pf comrades on open seas... ...but now, it is worse than ever because of the Port Bonusses !! With my above made suggestion, we could level the basic playing field again WITHOUT taking something away from the big clans So i urge you for support of the idea...thanks !! P.S.: think of all of those who never come to the forums and just disappear from the game out of frustration Edited August 15, 2019 by Sir Max Magic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karvala Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 (edited) I think it's a great idea; it would give solo players and small clans a piece of the action and not relegate them to being permanently second class citizens in second class ships. Clan members still get a benefit, return on their investment and cheaper access to good ships, and everyone's happy A simpler alternative which would achieve a similar thing, but also give players a choice as to when they choose to build with port bonuses and directly relate to the level of investment clans make, would to allow clans to sell consumable port bonus licences for a specified fee. Solo players/small clans can buy these and then apply them when they build a ship to get the port bonuses. They could be priced to balance the improved ship vs the cost, and clans get a revenue stream to reward them for their investment. The price could differ based on the level of port bonus. Edited August 17, 2019 by Karvala 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) This is a great solution. Thank you for suggesting. I won't be surprised though if it falls on the usual deaf ears. Personally I think the whole port bonus thing should get sealed in a concrete bucket and sunk to Davy Jones' locker, but if they are insistent on that stupid system, then this suggestion would be a great compromise. Edited August 18, 2019 by Papillon 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrustyJohnson Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Just remove port bonuses and give the ports some other inherent benefit. I advocate unlimited tows between between adjacent, nation-owned ports. Also, tax on trade missions delivered would be good. Higher chances to build purple and gold ships, etc, clan warehouses at every port owned by that clan On a note more related to the original post...are y'alls nations super toxic or something? I make ships at our Port Bonus'd port for any solo player or small clan that needs them. If Port Bonuses HAVE to be a thing, why not just do away with the friendly clan list? Afraid alts are going to sneak into your nation and build ships that can actually compete with yours? Wimps. Just goes to show why port bonuses are a terrible idea in the first place. So many aspects of this game are designed to shit on the weak and solitary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolau Coelho Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 On 8/18/2019 at 12:31 AM, Karvala said: to being permanently second class citizens in second class ships. thats sadly true 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Max Magic Posted September 6, 2019 Author Share Posted September 6, 2019 On 8/18/2019 at 6:21 AM, CrustyJohnson said: Just remove port bonuses and give the ports some other inherent benefit. I advocate unlimited tows between between adjacent, nation-owned ports. Also, tax on trade missions delivered would be good. Higher chances to build purple and gold ships, etc, clan warehouses at every port owned by that clan On a note more related to the original post...are y'alls nations super toxic or something? I make ships at our Port Bonus'd port for any solo player or small clan that needs them. If Port Bonuses HAVE to be a thing, why not just do away with the friendly clan list? Afraid alts are going to sneak into your nation and build ships that can actually compete with yours? Wimps. Just goes to show why port bonuses are a terrible idea in the first place. So many aspects of this game are designed to shit on the weak and solitary. The thing is, many solo players or small clans want to build their OWN ships, being part of all ! I for myself play this game since over 3 years and big part of my gaming was always gather all resources and play the crafting lottery, hoping that something fine comes out... Deliver my resources just to any clan member, like you suggested, doesnt feel the same, because you feel like a beggar On the other hand, begging to get on the friendly list (and stay there) isnt also what i want...AND in this case, you ARE a beggar, because your contribution to the port is unknown 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl of Grey Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) Like the suggestion and See the problem for small clans and singleplayers same as you. But i think it will be too much reward for the owning clan ... if a nation has only one "good port" everyone will build his ships there even If this port has 100% tax and next best port has 0 or 10%. So this portowner will get half of the mats of almost every crafted ship in his nation ... No really clue, but this can mean the port owner clan gets 10 or 20 firstrates a day almost free ... OK permit and LHs still needed ... Think 10 - 20 % of the doubs a ship cost are enough Clan tax ... maybe clans shouldnt get this tax, the port pays of with other taxes a Lot ... Just give owner clan and his friends a discount of 20% of doubs a ship cost ... Edited September 6, 2019 by Gilles de Rais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raekur Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 What about the reverse of the situation. Say a clan does some action that is against the nation (like aiding the enemy or opening a port near the shipyard port). What is to prevent them from continuing to use the port? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raekur Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Also, while I understand that yes this will give the solo / small clans some equal footing towards fielding ships that have a chance, but what is preventing the solo / small clans from just contacting a clan that has access to the shipyards and purchasing the ships? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl of Grey Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 15 minutes ago, Raekur said: What about the reverse of the situation. Say a clan does some action that is against the nation (like aiding the enemy or opening a port near the shipyard port). What is to prevent them from continuing to use the port? What prevents that now? 5 minutes ago, Raekur said: Also, while I understand that yes this will give the solo / small clans some equal footing towards fielding ships that have a chance, but what is preventing the solo / small clans from just contacting a clan that has access to the shipyards and purchasing the ships? 3 Reasons: 1. If you Just buy the ship you will never have the chance of a magenta or golden ship (for the price of the mats) 2. You will always need somebody who sell the ship you want at the time you want ... 3. You lock out singleplayers and smal clans from a part If the game ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl of Grey Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 34 minutes ago, Staunberg said: Lots of players that are not in the owning clan also have invested in upgrading the port, what if they are removed, is it fair they also should pay a tax? And If they get romoved now? 34 minutes ago, Staunberg said: Persobbaly I think it would be better for the game to make shipcrafting depend on the player, and not port ore clan. Agree but PB we're introduced to make PORTS meaningful i think ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Sir Max Magic said: The thing is, many solo players or small clans want to build their OWN ships, being part of all ! I for myself play this game since over 3 years and big part of my gaming was always gather all resources and play the crafting lottery, hoping that something fine comes out... Deliver my resources just to any clan member, like you suggested, doesnt feel the same, because you feel like a beggar On the other hand, begging to get on the friendly list (and stay there) isnt also what i want...AND in this case, you ARE a beggar, because your contribution to the port is unknown Community asked for clan control so their infrastructure would not be "infected" by meta-alt gameplay. As with everything, it has benign and adverse results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Max Magic Posted September 6, 2019 Author Share Posted September 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Gilles de Rais said: Like the suggestion and See the problem for small clans and singleplayers same as you. But i think it will be too much reward for the owning clan ... if a nation has only one "good port" everyone will build his ships there even If this port has 100% tax and next best port has 0 or 10%. So this portowner will get half of the mats of almost every crafted ship in his nation ... No really clue, but this can mean the port owner clan gets 10 or 20 firstrates a day almost free ... OK permit and LHs still needed ... Think 10 - 20 % of the doubs a ship cost are enough Clan tax ... maybe clans shouldnt get this tax, the port pays of with other taxes a Lot ... Just give owner clan and his friends a discount of 20% of doubs a ship cost ... Thank you for your response and your support of my idea I also thought about your mentionend possible issue " if a nation has only one "good port" everyone will build his ships there even If this port has 100% tax and next best port has 0 or 10%" and came to the conclusions, that all big Clans want to have their OWN port, for which they can take care and which they want to prosper... Additionally, the big clans will always compete with each other to have the better Port... What might be, that the big clans will compete eventually for a lower tax with each other, to get a constant influx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl of Grey Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Hethwill said: Community asked for clan control so their infrastructure would not be "infected" by meta-alt gameplay. As with everything, it has benign and adverse results. If i remember right "Community", which means big clans, had a problem with alts buying there ressources at cartagena f.e. ... the argument was why they should conquer a port like carta If that only means that some Trader alts change the Nation and keep buying cartagena tar. PB now lock out newbees and singleplayers from good ship crafting, but dont affect Trader alts, because the mains build their ships in their home port ... So the strike Hits the wrong group imho ... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Max Magic Posted September 6, 2019 Author Share Posted September 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hethwill said: Community asked for clan control so their infrastructure would not be "infected" by meta-alt gameplay. As with everything, it has benign and adverse results. @Hethwill, first of all, dont mistake community with playerbase Community are the usual forumites who are mostly organized in big clans...ofc for them, this isnt a situation for which they care much ! Understandable from their perspective, everything is fine... But noone knows what the Playerbase is thinking about that they cant build competitive ships without being forced to enter a big clan ! Noone knows, but my educated guess is that the playerbase is much larger than the participants of this forum... ...and dont forget that the big clans dont take everyone, you have to be "famous" to some degree to get an invitation... But even if they dont have to be "famous", i think we can agree that newer players never get a chance to enter the big clans and this way, they are excluded from a major part of the game: CRAFTING 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl of Grey Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, Sir Max Magic said: Thank you for your response and your support of my idea I also thought about your mentionend possible issue " if a nation has only one "good port" everyone will build his ships there even If this port has 100% tax and next best port has 0 or 10%" and came to the conclusions, that all big Clans want to have their OWN port, for which they can take care and which they want to prosper... Additionally, the big clans will always compete with each other to have the better Port... What might be, that the big clans will compete eventually for a lower tax with each other, to get a constant influx Yeah but the problem is there are good ports and bad ports ... best ports have 55 Points you can Invest in Upgrades (every Upgrade use an amount of Points) ... There are only five (?) 55-point ports in the map ... so If a clan in your Nation has a 55-point-port he has probably a monopole ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Gilles de Rais said: If i remember right "Community", which means big clans, had a problem with alts buying there ressources at cartagena f.e. ... the argument was why they should conquer a port like carta If that only means that some Trader alts change the Nation and keep buying cartagena tar. PB now lock out newbees and singleplayers from good ship crafting, but dont affect Trader alts, because the mains build their ships in their home port ... So the strike Hits the wrong group imho ... Oh yeah. Hence i always say "careful what you wish for". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl of Grey Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sir Max Magic said: @Hethwill ...and dont forget that the big clans dont take everyone, you have to be "famous" to some degree to get an invitation... But even if they dont have to be "famous", i think we can agree that newer players never get a chance to enter the big clans and this way, they are excluded from a major part of the game: CRAFTING Not my expierience ... They take almost everyone ... only thing they want is Activity and use comms at least in Battles ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Max Magic Posted September 6, 2019 Author Share Posted September 6, 2019 Just now, Gilles de Rais said: Yeah but the problem is there are good ports and bad ports ... best ports have 55 Points you can Invest in Upgrades (every Upgrade use an amount of Points) ... There are only five (?) 55-point ports in the map ... so If a clan in your Nation has a 55-point-port he has probably a monopole ... Correct, but nowadays he has already the monopol and clans were competing even inside one nation to get their hands on those ports... I fully understand your point tbh, but in my view this shouldnt be a major concern atm...the much bigger concerns are that small clans/solo and new players are dependent about big clans, selling what "falls from the table" and clan didnt need any more...usually you will never see a Golden Ship in Sale with Port Bonusses 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Max Magic Posted September 6, 2019 Author Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Gilles de Rais said: Not my expierience ... They take almost everyone ... only thing they want is Activity and use comms at least in Battles ... Dont think that HAVOC f.e. had ever took a new Player (nothing against @rediii and other big clan leaders, to the contrary ), but they usually want "proofed" players and dont have the time (and will) to learn a Player with few weeks under his belt the game, answering his millions of questions and see them vanish after few months...but dont let us loose in small details mate when we both agree about the overall situation and that my idea would, hopefully, change the situation for a huge part of the playerbase to the better ...and this, most important, without taking away anything from big clans and opening no loophole ! To the contrary, big clans can get a new sort of income, helping them with their war efforts in a reasonable manner Edited September 6, 2019 by Sir Max Magic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Max Magic Posted September 6, 2019 Author Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) One argument not mentionend until this point in the discussion, just stroke my mind: If a change would come like suggested, ALL players in one nation would have again an incentive to take part in Port Battles eg. Screening because they want to defend their "own" Port, because they would loose all their mats already allocated in this Port and their upgraded Shipyard...same like the attacked Clan ! This means, NATION and Clans would get reunitated Nowadays, they take Part in Screening only because of national pride, but they risk either competitive ships bought from big clans for insane pricing or arent competitive in Screening because they take Part in non competitive Ships at all... ---> This would be again like it was 2 or 3 years ago when Ports had their distinctive advantages and the whole nation tried everything to defend the precious ones ! It was a NATIONAL task to defend and conquer those important regions...not just a task for a single clan... ...changed initial post accordingly Edited September 6, 2019 by Sir Max Magic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Max Magic Posted September 6, 2019 Author Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, rediii said: We did take new players while in the dutch nation. Noone stayed playing the game and "months" should be changed to week (no s) We took some returning players while in the danish nation but made very bad experiences with completly new guys. And tbh HAVOC wasn't a place for new guys since there was no handholding in the clan. There was a announcement what we do when we did something as a clan and the rest was on your own initiative and being in comms. Also if someone hello kittys up he was told he hello kittyed up and why rather directly. That's not something everyone likes Exactly, thank your for your reply, @rediii I just mentionend HAVOC and you because everyone knows you and your clan stands exemplary for most big Clans... Ofc big Clans have other goals than "holding the hands" of newcomers and thats fine ...but exactly for that reason, we need, in my view, a balance between the interests of big PB orientated clans and solo/fresh/new players and small clans on the other hand Following my suggestion, everyone of "your" nation, willing to pay "your" tax (again just taking "you" as an example), could craft ships in Ports defended and conquered by you, giving your clan a nice influx of income...and getting players, who wont find a place in the big competetive clans, atleast the option to craft competitive ships...and doing so, being a nice and welcome addition to their nation and in RvR Edited September 6, 2019 by Sir Max Magic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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