Patch 30: Trading feedback

[Zlatkowar]

1 hour ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

People whine about being too poor and not able to get enough reals to play, devs fix it, other people whine they have too much money they don't know what to do with... 😕  maybe being able to buy expensive upgrades maybe ?  crafted ships ? permits ? doublons etc ... ?

Cargo delivery is great, tell me what wrong it do to you and to the game ?

Cargo delivery is not great. It's just another appendix to the existing ressource trade system. With a lower risk for PvP crowd since you don't have to invest a dime when you take these quests.

- Permits were introduced to add a sense of rarity to certain ships. These permits require dubs. Dubs could easily be gained through old cargo missions. Balance somewhat preserved.
- Rare woods became much more difficult to obtain. One way to get your hands on those are dubs. Dubs could easily be gained through old cargo missions. Balance somewhat preserved.
- Crafting ships required loads of dubs. Dubs could easily be gained through old cargo missions... Balance preserved.

Cargo mission reward changed from dubs to reals and an absurd weight is added to the cargo item : 
- Certain trade ships can no longer fulfill those missions
- Ship crafting altogether turned to be much more costly since woods and crafting itself still cost dubs which became harder to get.
- Hunt/S&D missions now grant CMs which somewhat decrease permits cost... But this is also redundant with the patrol area rewards, and starves a little more the doubloon income possibility.

I'll be fine since I do pretty much all the things the game has to offer on PvE. But for those who exclusively stick to lets say trading and crafting... They are screwed. They will get tons of reals which they won't be able to use for anything. Nobody will sell them dubs as we all need them now.

That's what's wrong with current cargo delivery system. Yes, the amount of dubs you could generate from those missions before patch needed some tuning... We needed fine tuning, we got jackhammer tuning. And I believe that one thing that makes balancing even more complex is the fact that we now have 3 different currencies :  Reals, Dubs, CMs.

[LIONOFWALES]

The delivery missions in game pay very well... they are very much worth the risk in the open world on the PVP server.

May I make a suggestion...

If they are to have the current reward level... I feel that players will need to travel farther for these missions not to impact trade in game so much... I was able to deliver two delivery missions within 2 hours time.... netting around 2000 dabloons and 100,000 reals. If you wish to keep the distance of these delivery missions as they are... I would recommend reducing their reward level by around 50% or so. Please don't half the rewards for missions that are 100,000 kilometers or further though.... just the missions that are closer... say 20,000 kilometers to 50,000 kilometers. The other delivery missions will need to stay a higher pay out... Now also consider this... maybe the higher paying missions could instead be smuggling missions for taking goods to enemy ports... you take the mission, you get the goods from the mission hub, and then deliver the mission within a set number of days to reap your reward. Some of the higher paying missions could be centered around delivering to enemy Capitals even. Just a thought. If you take the mission and it involves delivering rarer goods generated through the mission hub in port like Categena Tar, or Crooked Cedar, or even Live Oak Logs... this would encourage players to run goods everywhere... making these goods available in all corners of the map... the rwards just need to support the meens or the risk. These goods would be generated by the mission and locked to ensure delivery... rendering them untradable until delivered at their destination. Once delivered the goods would not become available at that port until 2 resets later. This would make it difficult to spam goods through missions. Some players would probably try... but they would have to be very devoted to do so.

Now... perhaps we should also consider that I am a more involved player than some... maybe I play longer than average and just get more out of the missions... this being said, I have a friend in game that captured a player that was running a type of delivery mission... my friend took the person hostage that was on the opponents ship as the passenger was still alive... he was able to complete the mission instead of the original player... the mission was worth around 140,000 reals or so... good loot for taking a player in a Snow. This is really cool in my opinion and should remain as a mechanic in game. Very cool to have capturable missions.

Good job developers... you are delivering!

Content is good and I feel this game is going the right direction, still lots to develop, but this last update was a good one.

Three cheers for the frigates and their gallant Captains!

Edited March 30, 2019 by LIONOFWALES

[LIONOFWALES]

2 hours ago, Zlatkowar said:

- Certain trade ships can no longer fulfill those missions

Yes agreed... passenger deliveries are available.

 

[Dibbler (Retired)]

 

 I think passenger missions rewards should be lowered some, they are to high atm for reals but that can be tweaked. Depends what Devs envisage them for though, but maybe enough after 1-4 missions to be able to have enough to start trading  (snow and lower tier goods amount), or buy admiralty ship and kit out. Basically a way out of total poverty when new guys get wiped out.

 

 I would perhaps suggest making letter missions just pay reals and have low weight ,  and cargo missions just pay dubloons as are 800 weight.  Means reals can be got in basic cutter if all lost,  and  cargo runs for dubloons as carry more risk (slower trade ship in tow are used).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Dibbler

[LIONOFWALES]

2 hours ago, Zlatkowar said:

Rare woods became much more difficult to obtain. One way to get your hands on those are dubs. Dubs could easily be gained through old cargo missions. Balance somewhat preserved.

Lets make them part of the delivery missions... after 2 or even three server resets they come available at that port... this way we will have rarer goods more available and the availability will be up to players running these delivery missions. The mission could be bundled to avoid trading the goods or selling to ports directly... The goods don't come available at port for a couple days. Those that want to wait for their goods for 24-36 hours would deserve getting the goods back again to use for themselves... most probably will head out for another mission instead of waiting for their goods to come available. The rewards just need to be worth the trouble and risk.

As it is now... the rewards for these missions seem to be very good.... they could be halved in my opinion for the closer missions... say 20k-50k distance. 100k distance missions should have a higher reward as the player is remaining in the open world twice as long and is putting more time into the game... in my opinion the missions that pay 140,000 reals should involve a person sailing to an enemy Capitol. The mission would deliver a rare resource that would come available after a couple resets. This would be even more constructive for in game play... and would create smugglers clans too... players that specialize in the delivery of smuggled goods. The goods will need to be loadable on a Traders Lynx or Traders Cutter... this is important to make this type of delivery mission work...

[LIONOFWALES]

4 minutes ago, Dibbler said:

I think passenger missions rewards should be lowered some, they are to high atm for reals but that can be tweaked. Depends what Devs envisage them for though, but maybe enough after 1-4 missions to be able to have enough to start trading  (snow and lower tier goods amount), or buy admiralty ship and kit out. Basically a way out of total poverty when new guys get wiped out.

 

 I would perhaps suggest making letter missions just pay reals and have low weight ,  and cargo missions just pay dubloons as are 800 weight.  Means reals can be got in basic cutter if all lost,  and  cargo runs for dubloons as carry more risk (slower trade ship in tow are used).

 

agreed, and maybe one more mission type... as listed above... Smuggling Missions  specified for delivering rare mission generated resources as specified above? They would be delivered to the National Capitols, packaged not to be released for availability until after 2-3 resets. The rewards just need to be high enough to justify the risk.

[Dibbler (Retired)]

2 hours ago, Zlatkowar said:

- Rare woods became much more difficult to obtain. One way to get your hands on those are dubs. Dubs could easily be gained through old cargo missions. Balance somewhat preserved.

 

 The rare woods would be better perhaps if different woods had different dubloon requirements,  lets face it  white oak, teak, live oak should cost more than say sabicu, mahogany, cag for example. Maybe price in Dubloons is  "dynamic" and bigger demand request influences price over time and lower vice versa.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Dibbler

[LIONOFWALES]

On 3/29/2019 at 5:32 AM, SS Minnow said:

The delivery missions seem to pay a disproportionate reward compared to delivering trade goods.  I would bump up the consumption prices and maybe lower the delivery rewards a bit.

Agreed the level of payout should be tweaked a bit... Also consider this...

30 minutes ago, LIONOFWALES said:

Now also consider this... maybe the higher paying missions could instead be smuggling missions for taking goods to enemy ports... you take the mission, you get the goods from the mission hub, and then deliver the mission within a set number of days to reap your reward. Some of the higher paying missions could be centered around delivering to enemy Capitals even. Just a thought. If you take the mission and it involves delivering rarer goods generated through the mission hub in port like Categena Tar, or Crooked Cedar, or even Live Oak Logs... this would encourage players to run goods everywhere... making these goods available in all corners of the map... the rwards just need to support the meens or the risk. These goods would be generated by the mission and locked to ensure delivery... rendering them untradable until delivered at their destination. Once delivered the goods would not become available at that port until 2 resets later. This would make it difficult to spam goods through missions. Some players would probably try... but they would have to be very devoted to do so.

 

Edited March 30, 2019 by LIONOFWALES

[Zlatkowar]

I see no easy solution here, and I know not all share my opinion on new missions.
What I can observe is that with same set of activities I'm standing about -15'000 dubs in my balance.

I will adjust my activities to compensate for that diff, but I still think that the 3 currencies thing makes it harder to find balance.

[jodgi]

11 hours ago, toblerone said:

Do you really think that people will swallow the bait and come there in a full and slow trading ship? They could be carebears, but most of them are not idiots!

Ye, the whole deal that someone would accept playing the victim. Never understood that.

[Archaos]

18 hours ago, Dibbler said:

 

 The rare woods would be better perhaps if different woods had different dubloon requirements,  lets face it  white oak, teak, live oak should cost more than say sabicu, mahogany, cag for example. Maybe price in Dubloons is  "dynamic" and bigger demand request influences price over time and lower vice versa.

 

 

Have you actually done any of the clan resource missions yet? They do have different doubloon requirements, Teak, WO and LO are 50k doubloons and Sabicu is only 25k doubloons, not sure about the others, but the lesser used ones are less than the main ones.

[Teutonic]

19 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Have you actually done any of the clan resource missions yet? They do have different doubloon requirements, Teak, WO and LO are 50k doubloons and Sabicu is only 25k doubloons, not sure about the others, but the lesser used ones are less than the main ones.

25k, 35k, and 50k are the three levels of cost I see.

 

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

13 hours ago, jodgi said:

Ye, the whole deal that someone would accept playing the victim. Never understood that.

People accept it from the admiralty, what is the difference ?

[jodgi]

4 hours ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

People accept it from the admiralty, what is the difference ?

?

[Angus MacDuff]

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 10:45 AM, Angus MacDuff said:

Yes, i'm more than happy to support our national clans (or even when I sneak into a Brit port!)

I said this some time ago and it got me thinking.  Do I pay the same taxes when I sneak into an enemy port?  Should I?  If they're going to be trying to kill me for simply trading (the buggers!!), shouldn't I get a break on taxes?  I think I should pay no taxes in an enemy port and they should hunt me if they don't like it.

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

14 hours ago, jodgi said:

?

You quoted a reaction to my suggestion about adding possibility of player driven delivery contracts, i answered him already and i still fail to see how admiralty delivery missions are ok but players contracts would not.

That's all.

[Suppenkelle]

I’m not thoroughly happy with the change of cargo and passenger missions to reals. Beside the tendency to another hyper inflation there is one other thing. 

Getting only doubloons for the econ missions previously set a well defined task for the more peacefully minded guys in our clan: To collect Doubloons and buy rare woods with them. This is gone now and I haven’t found a similarly peaceful task as replacement. 

[Archaos]

13 minutes ago, Suppenkelle said:

I’m not thoroughly happy with the change of cargo and passenger missions to reals. Beside the tendency to another hyper inflation there is one other thing. 

Getting only doubloons for the econ missions previously set a well defined task for the more peacefully minded guys in our clan: To collect Doubloons and buy rare woods with them. This is gone now and I haven’t found a similarly peaceful task as replacement. 

You are totally correct, since the change of rewards I have only done one day of delivery missions to test it out and since then there has been no reason for me to do the missions. When the rewards were doubloons I found myself doing the missions constantly because I always knew I could use the doubloons to get more rare woods and if I had too much rare wood I could sell it to others in nation for a reasonable price. I could even exchange doubloons for combat medals so people who preferred to just PvP could get doubloons.

There used to be some form of balance is the economy and now this is gone.

[Zlatkowar]

46 minutes ago, Suppenkelle said:

I’m not thoroughly happy with the change of cargo and passenger missions to reals. Beside the tendency to another hyper inflation there is one other thing. 

Getting only doubloons for the econ missions previously set a well defined task for the more peacefully minded guys in our clan: To collect Doubloons and buy rare woods with them. This is gone now and I haven’t found a similarly peaceful task as replacement. 

 

27 minutes ago, Archaos said:

You are totally correct, since the change of rewards I have only done one day of delivery missions to test it out and since then there has been no reason for me to do the missions. When the rewards were doubloons I found myself doing the missions constantly because I always knew I could use the doubloons to get more rare woods and if I had too much rare wood I could sell it to others in nation for a reasonable price. I could even exchange doubloons for combat medals so people who preferred to just PvP could get doubloons.

There used to be some form of balance is the economy and now this is gone.

Fully agree with both of you. Think I have done one, maybe two. But now at 12M reals they are totally useless. Meanwhile my dubs stock is melting.

[Sir Texas Sir]

So some one posted else where about a dedicated fishing boat and I got to thinking. With the new trade missions being 800 cargo size than what use do we have for the Lynx and Cutter?  I still think these goods should be 500 cargo so you or a new player can take one with the smallest trade ship.   You never really see any one use the Traders Cutter though.  Maybe the Trader cutter can be turned into a dedicated fishing boat is some one wish to do that?   While the Trader Lynx will still be the small smuggler ship.  

[Angus MacDuff]

Just now, Sir Texas Sir said:

So some one posted else where about a dedicated fishing boat and I got to thinking. With the new trade missions being 800 cargo size than what use do we have for the Lynx and Cutter?  I still think these goods should be 500 cargo so you or a new player can take one with the smallest trade ship.   You never really see any one use the Traders Cutter though.  Maybe the Trader cutter can be turned into a dedicated fishing boat is some one wish to do that?   While the Trader Lynx will still be the small smuggler ship.  

The TLynx and TCutter still have value for running your mats from their harvesting ports to your crafting ports.  Also passenger missions.  The reson that you don't see anyone using a Traders Cutter is that it looks exactly like a Basic Cutter and gets mostly ignored....sneaky...

[LeopoldRNN]

 

12 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

The TLynx and TCutter still have value for running your mats from their harvesting ports to your crafting ports.  Also passenger missions.  The reson that you don't see anyone using a Traders Cutter is that it looks exactly like a Basic Cutter and gets mostly ignored....sneaky...

A good reason to prefer the Tlynx is the TLynx is considerably faster (according to naval Action Wiki) then a TCutter.

TLynx = 12.17kn

TCutter = 10.82kn

[LeBoiteux]

20 minutes ago, LeopoldRNN said:

 

A good reason to prefer the Tlynx is the TLynx is considerably faster (according to naval Action Wiki) then a TCutter.

The great updated source for speed : here. 🙂

Edited April 2, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[LeopoldRNN]

1 hour ago, LeBoiteux said:

The great updated source for speed : here. 🙂

wish that one could toggle just 1 or 2 speed profiles at a time -hard to see the data with so many overlays.

[LeBoiteux]

5 minutes ago, LeopoldRNN said:

wish that one could toggle just 1 or 2 speed profiles at a time -hard to see the data with so many overlays.

click on the ship name you don't want : her profile disappear.