Testbed Feedback - Battle UI, Localization, Patrols, Delivery quests

[Tom Farseer]

15 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

18 minutes ago, admin said:

In terms of sailing profiles. Comparatively they are balanced between ships and frigates perform much better closed hauled and tack better than first rates for example. We just narrow the dead zones for better comfort. This could be addressed of course. 

Please take a look at BR so we can keep the ship diversity in port battles. 

This is very important to discuss before patch goes live. 

This! Very much this! With the raw power a first rate will provide in the new combat model, the complete BR needs to be reworked. I personally think with the amount of ships in the game the overall range needs to be increased to around 1.5k BR (Port BR limits must obviously be tuned to fit as well). First rates deserve to be powerhouses but they must not be the only sensible choice in PBs...

[Hethwill]

Bellonas should have 2.1 time the BR of the frigates 38 guns.

[HachiRoku]

1 hour ago, jodgi said:

I can't see how this will play out in every last detail, nor am I sure if I personally will end up liking it more or less. I think I will like things better and I think this will improve the game for me.

A lot of people in this topic are absolutely sure about how the game will change, I'm envious of their clairvoyance.

Listen, the new raking damage will be a skill multiplier, I think. People who take the wind will have more going for them now. Like you, I am also a bit nervous about the new power of bigger guns, but I'm far from convinced it will be as bad as some people seem so sure about.

I agree that people are overreacting to an untested combat system but you are wrong about one thing. The wind has always been meta. The day the wind is no longer meta is the day I will quit naval action. The biggest issue imo is that many ships can attack into the wind to stern rake. @Hethwillidea would reduce the effect of Steen raking into the wind but this would make combat way more hardcore than it is now. If ships close hauled speed was reduced by 10% it might make things interesting. If it was real It would be very very easy to get stuck in the wind. It might be great for the hardcore wind duels like I love but not for the rest of the server. I used to "duel" good players for 30+ minutes just to get the wind and position. During this time we would fire broadsides at 400m doing no damage lol. It was fun but hardcore. I want it back but for the casual I might be extremely punishing. I don't know. I wish some of the newer good pvpers could duel us for a few battles with old system. I don't believe it's nostalgia either. 

[Hethwill]

Is not an idea, is how the "vehicles" behave. Thankfully a lot of information is available to translate reality into a game. I don't think moving the choices to the player of the amount of canvas to use and wearing -or- tacking decisions to be hardcore.

Ever wondered why so many ships did not tack during historical engagements ? Right o. Bloody risky move.

[Grundgemunkey]

13 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

In short, the combat model we've grown use to was in line with the arena-style of Sea Trials, not an MMORPG which this game is.
Now focus is changing to deliver realistic and authentic models to better fit the historically accurate setting, with proper kill times, damage, and health pools.
The reason you probably won't succeed 1v1ing a frigate in a SOL anymore is because that's what's realistic and authentic, not because the game is "dumbing down"
We've just scratched the surface of this principle, I have faith gamelabs will pull it through and find reasonable balancing factors so 1st rates don't dominate every battle.
Besides that one little problem, combat feels amazing now, and it'll only get better from here.

I really dont want to be negative at all about this at all I have 7500 hours in this game so you can see how much I love it .. game labs have saved me a lot of money as I havent bought any other games in last 3 or so years  so I have no axe to grind with the devs

I just need convincing more that this will work bcause all i see is indeed a dumbing down of the game .. and actually its in my favour which may seem strange ,,, I understand why the devs have done it and the reasons why ,,,

even with the hours I have im not a really good player I would say just above average ,,but this is where the change and dumbing down happens ... it actual helps me by removing the skill factor between myself and the really good players ..

so you may ask why does that potentially spoil the game for me ....

it takes away the fear of losing my first rates and line ships that I sail .... it takes away the intlellectual thought process of  balancing risk v reward ...

the most fun moments of Naval Action ... are when I have risked all and  won ...

you champion the realitic and authentic ,,,, yet its a game that that cannot reproduce realism and authentic because it would be unplayable ... because there are factors that can never be reproduced ... the main one been the fear of losing your life ..and that doesnt happen in NA fortunatly .. . ships rarely sank  in battle ... if you want authenticity ... I may be wrong but no ships actually sank at trafalgar those that did sink were over the following days in the storm due to their poor condition .the notion of a ship going down all guns blazing is a myth ... captains lost their ships to boarding actions or simply surrendered and struck their colours  due to loss of crew or been unable to fight due to damage .many ships such as traders surrendered afte they received a shot across the bows and no fight actully happened . Im sure you agree this would  make poor game play

Naval action can range from been fantasically exciting to play and down right boring sometimes ... i fear the damage  model been introduced will lessen the excitement and fear  and just go to been moderatley fun and sometimes boring

every change in the game affects lots of other mechanics ... but also players motivation to play.... yes I understand that the changes will help some players ... but it will turn off others

the damage model may need changing but it .. in my opinion it will change the game and bring back aspects to the game that we didnt like 12-24 months ago such as an ocean full of 1st rates

port battles where tactics and sailing are less important than weight of broadside

 

sorry this is so long

 

 

 

 

[Grundgemunkey]

17 hours ago, admin said:

I understand.  I will be honest just like you.
You want to keep easy mod. We are removing it.  As one of the old testers (maturin) said here. All feedback here has to be taken with the grain of sail because almost everyone only gives feedback to help him win.

First rates owners are a silent group and we are doing this for them based on data. Not your desires and thoughts.

Yet I am a first rate owner and my preference is to sail  1st 2nd and 3rd rates ,,,, so  you have me wrong .. Im not giving feedback that will help me win ... im giving feedback that keeps the game exciting for me .... the excitement of when I am stupidly sailing a 1st rate .. alone and an enemy frigate comes into view .. is this guy good enough to attack and sink me

winning without the threat of losing is boring

I dont want to not care because I can easy win and i will blow him out of the water ...an easy win isnt interesting

[Grundgemunkey]

15 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

In PB bucentaures and third rates has become already the main ships because of its firepower and BR.

BR is not so hard to adjust to reflect the new damage model.

 

If NA turns boring is amostly because of unfinished features or lack of variety of content (all day firing cannnons is monotonous).

 

Your guys keep repeating the same, ocean full of first rates. Lets see how many after a map and ressource wipe will do that. I predict the OW ship for those who loves SoL will be the Bellona, the same ship many are using right now.

of course after the wipe there will be none ....my first qbjective after the wipe will be to own a decent 1st rate and a decent bellona ..smaller ships will be secondary consideration

 

[Sea Archer]

I see the changes as a step in the right direction, though I think the damage model has to be modified to a more realistic one, but that could be the next step. 

I would love to the standing rigging and all spars as single hitboxes, which enables to shoot single sails away.

What I am missing are changed sailing properties when a mast is missing, which should unbalance the ship.

[Archaos]

35 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Is not an idea, is how the "vehicles" behave. Thankfully a lot of information is available to translate reality into a game. I don't think moving the choices to the player of the amount of canvas to use and wearing -or- tacking decisions to be hardcore.

Ever wondered why so many ships did not tack during historical engagements ? Right o. Bloody risky move.

I think we need to be very careful about requesting realistic sailing profiles as it has the possibility of making the game nearly unplayable. I agree that sailing with battle sails should bring some benefits in battle or at least less risk of losing masts, and that it should not be as easy to tack through the wind. But if ships sailing becomes so realistic that they cannot sail anywhere close to the wind it would make sailing in battles to engage the enemy very hard. In reality fleets of ships could spend hours if not days working themselves into position to engage the enemy, I am sure we do not want to replicate this in game. If large square riggers could only sail at their realistic points of sail it would mean that at the start of a battle the side that had the wind would have the advantage and the other side would have no option but to run downwind or spend a long time sailing as close to the wind as possible hoping the other side would make a mistake. It may make for tactical battles but battles would be more decided on initial positioning and maneuvering rather than a brawl, realistic but could turn a lot of players off. 

[Hethwill]

I do not understand. Sorry  

[Archaos]

1 minute ago, Hethwill said:

I do not understand. Sorry  

At present ships can sail unrealistically close to the wind and tack with relative ease, this allows the downwind player get close to their enemy to engage even though the ships are sailing closer to the wind than they would have been capable of in reality. In a few posts in this thread people have mentioned making the sailing more realistic (I thought you were one of the people that was proposing that) and I am just pointing out that if ships did sail realistically with big line ships only being able to sail slightly closer to the wind than a beam reach it would make battles drawn out as the downwind player would only really have the option of running with the wind. In game ships can sail a lot closer to the wind than they could in practice and I think this needs to remain so for playability.

[Hethwill]

I still don't understand or maybe we talking different aspects. You sail close haul as much as you can and then commit with the tack -or- fall back down wind. End of. There's not "let's anchor in the eye of the wind because play-ability".  Hope it is more clear. You commit in the choice you make and the manoeuvre must be completed or not. Simple. 

 

 

[huliotkd]

1 hour ago, Grundgemunkey said:

winning without the threat of losing is boring

a lot of us are still looking at game with old eyes...you will no more win without the threat of losing ship because if you sail 1st rates enemy player will engage you only with 3rd 2nd or 1st rate too so the battle in future will be more balanced. so the skill will make the match.

you talk about new player and their struggle in the new damage model so they will ragequit...NOPE!! new player will enter in a game already with new hardcore challenging damage model so they get use from the beginning to new threats...the problem here are all old skilled and newbs player already playing the game that don't want to sweat a little to get out from their comfort zone and adapt to new damages.

clearly, we need:

-little buff in SOL thickness (about 5 or 10 points, not %), other ships are ok...they must be soft compared to SOL

- a little nerf in SOL absolute speed (about 1 or 2 knots)

- limiting wood for sol only heavy woods (LO WO CAG SAB) ( or little nerf to speed or only limited heavy woods...or maybe both but i suppose it coul be too much)

- increase costs of sols in doublons , trim and planking woods...so a 1st rate should costs 50 or 80k doublons (for me it should me 100k but sometime i'm too extreme :D) and 5-6k LO maybe  ,40-60k 2nd rate , 30-50k 3rd rate and so on......4th 5th ecc ecc are ok as they are now.

-increase BR of 1-2-3 rates but not the BR of ports...a 1st should costs 1.5k or 2k BR to reduce the spam in big BR ports due to their new damage inflicted...a fleet of 6 1st rate can be countered only by heavy rates, maybe 10-12 Bellona...as it should be (3rd rate were the most sailed ship of the time due to their good quality)

 

[Grundgemunkey]

45 minutes ago, huliotkd said:

a lot of us are still looking at game with old eyes...you will no more win without the threat of losing ship because if you sail 1st rates enemy player will engage you only with 3rd 2nd or 1st rate too so the battle in future will be more balanced. so the skill will make the match.

Which is fime with me ... but means a world full of 1st rates , i thought no one wanted that ... the port battle BR and other changes in the last year were supposed to limit the amount of 1st rates in ow .. this change will increase them

you talk about new player and their struggle in the new damage model so they will ragequit...NOPE!! new player will enter in a game already with new hardcore challenging damage model so they get use from the beginning to new threats...the problem here are all old skilled and newbs player already playing the game that don't want to sweat a little to get out from their comfort zone and adapt to new damages.

pretty sure the changes are to help new players rank up quicker and stop them losing first rates to experienced players in frigates ... which is fine ... all the changes mean is they will lose their first rates to more expereinced players in 1st rates .... the changes actual increase my comfort zone rather than restrict it

I have the doubloons , the victory marks and the reals to produce a first rate every day

 

clearly, we need:

-little buff in SOL thickness (about 5 or 10 points, not %), other ships are ok...they must be soft compared to SOL

- a little nerf in SOL absolute speed (about 1 or 2 knots)

- limiting wood for sol only heavy woods (LO WO CAG SAB) ( or little nerf to speed or only limited heavy woods...or maybe both but i suppose it coul be too much)

lo/wo are out of reach to new players so is detrimental to the aim of changes .. getting new players into big ships quicker that they dont lose all the time

- increase costs of sols in doublons , trim and planking woods...so a 1st rate should costs 50 or 80k doublons (for me it should me 100k but sometime i'm too extreme :D) and 5-6k LO maybe  ,40-60k 2nd rate , 30-50k 3rd rate and so on......4th 5th ecc ecc are ok as they are now.

makes line ships  out of reach to new players so is detrimental to the aim of changes .. getting new players into big ships quicker that they dont lose all the time

-increase BR of 1-2-3 rates but not the BR of ports...a 1st should costs 1.5k or 2k BR to reduce the spam in big BR ports due to their new damage inflicted...a fleet of 6 1st rate can be countered only by heavy rates, maybe 10-12 Bellona...as it should be (3rd rate were the most sailed ship of the time due to their good quality)

Your trying to counter a problem caused by the new model by making the rvr experience worse  so again out of reach to new players so is detrimental to the aim of changes .. getting new players into big ships quicker that they dont lose all the time

your changes make 1ST RATES useless .. too slow  and costly for OW combat ,  .. too much BR port battles which again is detrimental to the aim of changes .. getting new players into big ships quicker that they dont lose all the time

also these are your wishes not whats been planned or tested

 

 

Edited February 13, 2019 by Grundgemunkey

[Zlatkowar]

3 hours ago, Grundgemunkey said:

Naval action can range from been fantasically exciting to play and down right boring sometimes ... i fear the damage  model been introduced will lessen the excitement and fear  and just go to been moderatley fun and sometimes boring

I can live with both of these moments. Thanks to NA I now take the time to read, cook, and do the dishes again 🤣 because as interesting as the conversations can be on Global, I can't spend my life there chatting with people when my initial intent was to play for a few hours. What makes me sad is that all of the 8 friends I dragged into NA could not stand the "down right boring" moments which inevitably drove them away from the game.

I did not have the chance yet to join a larger fleet of 6-8 players on testbed to engage a 3rd Rate +10 or such. This is something I currently like a lot, and I fear the changes brought here will ruin it forever.

2 hours ago, Intrepido said:

If NA turns boring is amostly because of unfinished features or lack of variety of content (all day firing cannnons is monotonous).

Your guys keep repeating the same, ocean full of first rates. Lets see how many after a map and ressource wipe will do that. I predict the OW ship for those who loves SoL will be the Bellona, the same ship many are using right now.

The "all day firing cannons" is perfectly fine with me x'D as long as stuff is happening. And yep, right now I use Bucentaure and Bellona/3rd more often than L'Océan and Vic. I like sailing all of them up to 5th rates (6 and 7 are just no fun anymore to me) and I hope I'll still be able to use those and have an acceptable target acquisition pace (by that I mean not wasting 2 hours looking for a target and find nothing that will give me a challenging fight without necessarily committing suicide).

[Teutonic]

One thing that keeps getting to me.

Either the damage is still a little too high or the HPs on all the ships is still a little too low. I am on the side that HPs on ships is still slightly too low.

I would adjust the HPs roughly as so.

1st rates seem about fine.

2nd/3rd should have a 5-10% hp increase. All lineships should be able to fight each other on a relatively similar scale - 1st should undeniably be the "best" but the 2nd and 3rds should not be off the table for a battle.

I am worried that the 2nd rates with low hps will literally never see the light of day.

Or we should drastically increase HPs on all ships by 10-20%. Lineships would still blow 5th rates and smaller out of the water, but 4th/5th rate fights would become more enjoyable.

It's possible that the biggest problem currently is carronade damage when it comes to lighter ships - but I do not know an easy fix without lowering carronade damage.

In order to stop lineships from becoming an OW hunting monster we definitely need to look at 1st and 2nd rate speeds @admin. Either those rates need a heavy wood limitation or their base speeds need a nerf. 

Historically speaking maybe 4th and 5ths were not faster than lineships - but when it comes to a game we need to understand that it could potentially cause problems for game balance.

[HachiRoku]

4 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Is not an idea, is how the "vehicles" behave. Thankfully a lot of information is available to translate reality into a game. I don't think moving the choices to the player of the amount of canvas to use and wearing -or- tacking decisions to be hardcore.

Ever wondered why so many ships did not tack during historical engagements ? Right o. Bloody risky move.

Well it's worth a try. Ships had a hard time tacking at one point in development. Not sure when it was. You know I'm the last person to complain about better sailing. I only disliked the Endymion and trinco being the worst close hauled sailors in the past. These 2 were historically legendary at close hauled.  

[Sea Archer]

We have to leave the "the ship must sink by gunfire" way.

This should be a possible result of the batte, but most battles should end because the captain of the loosing side has to surrender to save his crew. Therefore only very low hits should destroy the structure. 

Edited February 13, 2019 by Sea Archer

[HachiRoku]

5 hours ago, Grundgemunkey said:

even with the hours I have im not a really good player I would say just above average ,,but this is where the change and dumbing down happens ... it actual helps me by removing the skill factor between myself and the really good players .

This is where you are very wrong. This patch might reduce the whole multiple reps kite BS that some people call skill but it has the potential to make other things like sailing, positioning and the wind more important than upgrades. I doubt this will be the case but I have high hopes. The combat up until now has been to forgiving. The devs might have went to far but the old combat system was a joke. Anyway my friend. Don't overreact until we have more testing with pvp. After that I will cry with you. 

[Zlatkowar]

47 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

Either the damage is still a little too high or the HPs on all the ships is still a little too low. I am on the side that HPs on ships is still slightly too low.

In order to stop lineships from becoming an OW hunting monster we definitely need to look at 1st and 2nd rate speeds @admin. Either those rates need a heavy wood limitation or their base speeds need a nerf. 

Historically speaking maybe 4th and 5ths were not faster than lineships - but when it comes to a game we need to understand that it could potentially cause problems for game balance.

Pretty sure I have read an answer from admin saying that wile damage model has been updated, the HP compensation couterpart has not been added yet. Would be great if he could confirm.

As for the historically accurate part, I read a bit on the french ship builders history and they seem to say that their 3rd rates (Téméraire class) were already quite evolved and surprisingly maneuverable and fast, and that this technology or crafting method has been transposed on the 2nd rates (Tonnant class) and what we know as L'Océan aswell. And I read that they were all pretty much as maneuverable and fast as their counterparts. Of course if you just copy paste such things ingame without a bit of tweaking this would make l'Océan way too OP and there would be no point sailing anything else...

[Carlos_Condell]

i think a few things that may resolve this problems and balance everything:

1:  Carronades dispersion and penetration:  they are soo accurate in long range and way too powerfull atm, even penetrate at 300mt or more. i think devs can cut the max range of penetration of carronades to 500mt tops but very low and 250mt or close, very high pen. not that linear curve we have now.

2: Cannon dispersion: maybe 2 or 3 points up? or make dispersion tied with speed, Full speed had more dispersion than low speed or battle sails mode.

3:High speed mods and Speed SOL: they need a High nerf in speed, if we want diversity in OW

4:HP gap between 1-2-3 rates should be lowered.  ( pavel is shit atm, need some love and more thickness, had less than the Idefatigable)

5: SOL Cost must be Increased, make it frustrating when u lose one but very fun to play with his firepower.

6: SOL 1st Rates crafting woods restricted only to historical records:   Santisima was Build in Caguarian... victory in Teak, L'ocean??? perhaps if you restrict to the original woods of the SOL should be a natural balance, No special crafting perhaps?

7: 4th rates NPC capturable, im still thinking this would be add more retention and fun into the game.

8: Make WASA Crafteable, no more Notes for 3rd rates

9: ALL ships in the game should be present in OW as NPC, so any player can learn how to fight them back, and how dangerous they are.

10: NPC OW sailing capabilities a little bit nerfed, they sail way too good and fast even desmasted

11: Mast Strengh bonus in battle sail mode, like you did before with turning and sail damage

12: More epic events, even for 6th and 7th rates, that should be encourage to sail small ships again, as far as it is now, they are useless

13: add content to name your ship if is posible, as well bring back paintings... that would be lovely.

14: BR re-balance, but for ships not Port br.

15: I love the new damage model... keep up the good work, but keep in mind this aspects, if you do not tweak this little thinkgs, SOL spam should be back and the game will be dumbling down like everyone says.

i hope to resume all the post and ideas here, @admin

Edited February 13, 2019 by Carlos_Condell

[van Veen]

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

will all of those machinations make for a better game with more players and a more engaging world to keep those players around?  Nope

Admin said he is convinced that damage model update improves player retention. Let's see. 

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

7 hours ago, admin said:

I will try to explain Vernon

• The damage model appeared first in the original sea trials in 2015. 
• The damage model was set for lobby based shooter (which NA was before open world) where all battles are equal, and you do not lose the ships. Basically a MOBA
• In this model DPS was inverted because it would be strange if all ships had same hp and same damage, so the harmonization was realized by the following means
  • guns had inverse DPS
  • hp difference was artificially cut in half to support this balance (220 tons cutter and 5000 tons first rate only had 7x difference in HP)

There was a clear conflict.

• Open world MMO with progression and realistic elements should enforce power growth and provide clear benefits on investing time and money
• Moba style requires all heroes (ships) to be available right away and be balanced between each other 
• But since the introduction of the open world based on the player requests the game has been stuck between two models never completing one of them

So things were stuck betwixt 

• If you level only in PVE it takes up to 30 days (1h per day) to get to the first rate
• Costs for ships of the line were constantly increased and they cannot be captured on PVP server, and require port control to make them
• But power remained in the semi MOBA state where a 5th rate (requiring 2-3 days of progression and 1 day to craft/or 20-30 mins to capture for free from NPCs) could challenge the ship of the line requiring 30 days to reach and 7 days to craft (+ some farming)
• Complaints by players who lost lineships to light ships were usually dismissed with "Learn to play", but everybody knows 3 frigates could despatch a first rate without taking a sweat, while a first rate had to exercise precision with every move (because frigates could easily escape)

In short - game was forcing players to progress and farm to sail first rates, while keeping partial old moba model for damage (which was ALSO not working because the real moba model requires all heroes to be accessible from day1). So in reality it was not a MMO, nor a moba. 

This gordian knot has to be cut and it could only be done in 2 ways.
1) Ships should receive somewhat realistic HP and realistic ball damage, and this will justify longer progression and costs
2) OW costs mechanics must be abandoned and all ships must be made accessible from day 1

Thank you for this explanation. That clears a bit up. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, admin said:

I will try to explain Vernon

• The damage model appeared first in the original sea trials in 2015. 
• The damage model was set for lobby based shooter (which NA was before open world) where all battles are equal, and you do not lose the ships. Basically a MOBA
• In this model DPS was inverted because it would be strange if all ships had same hp and same damage, so the harmonization was realized by the following means
  • guns had inverse DPS
  • hp difference was artificially cut in half to support this balance (220 tons cutter and 5000 tons first rate only had 7x difference in HP)

There was a clear conflict.

• Open world MMO with progression and realistic elements should enforce power growth and provide clear benefits on investing time and money
• Moba style requires all heroes (ships) to be available right away and be balanced between each other 
• But since the introduction of the open world based on the player requests the game has been stuck between two models never completing one of them

So things were stuck betwixt 

• If you level only in PVE it takes up to 30 days (1h per day) to get to the first rate
• Costs for ships of the line were constantly increased and they cannot be captured on PVP server, and require port control to make them
• But power remained in the semi MOBA state where a 5th rate (requiring 2-3 days of progression and 1 day to craft/or 20-30 mins to capture for free from NPCs) could challenge the ship of the line requiring 30 days to reach and 7 days to craft (+ some farming)
• Complaints by players who lost lineships to light ships were usually dismissed with "Learn to play", but everybody knows 3 frigates could despatch a first rate without taking a sweat, while a first rate had to exercise precision with every move (because frigates could easily escape)

In short - game was forcing players to progress and farm to sail first rates, while keeping partial old moba model for damage (which was ALSO not working because the real moba model requires all heroes to be accessible from day1). So in reality it was not a MMO, nor a moba. 

This gordian knot has to be cut and it could only be done in 2 ways.
1) Ships should receive somewhat realistic HP and realistic ball damage, and this will justify longer progression and costs
2) OW costs mechanics must be abandoned and all ships must be made accessible from day 1

“Lord Nelson at Trafalgar Simulator”, this is the core theme, we get that.

The trouble is, at Trafalgar all the ships were built before the battle, here in NA, OW, by design, dictates that all ships are to built during the battle, progression within an open world arena.

OW unrestricted warfare wont’ (might not) work with the new damage model for new and progressing players, vets will get more of a advantage, @admin you haven't address this (in none of the above) nor explain how new players are to progress with Frigates, PvP, or within a vet environment. 

Some forum contributors are  trying there best to highlight this and support new players, I hope @admin you have a plan for them too.

 

Edited February 13, 2019 by Guest

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

There has been a few people mentioning having a limit on what woods ships of the line can use and there was/is a thread going on based upon this topic. I do think there should be a limit on the effectiveness of these ships of the line in open world soloing. Obviously requiring a support ship or two. May I suggest instead a mild speed cap for ships of the line @admin? One thing I just do not want to see if just fleets or bellonas and 1st rates roaming open world attacking everything as small as a lynx.