A Controversial Subject.

[jodgi]

3 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

You're wrong

I'm almost always open for that possibility.

4 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Why you think xp boosters are P2W?

I don't think they are. (opinion)

 

5 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

You support them because they are personally convenient for you

Yes, but more importantly it puts other warm bodies out into OW (admin submitted statistical fact).

7 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

When did you last port battle?

I tried to last night  But you're right, last time was before EA, I think.

9 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

You don't care about rvr

True and I never hide that fact. I'm not against it, tho. I hope you guys can enjoy all that work, waiting, grinding and diplomacy. I just came from a WoT clanwars burnout back in 2015. I could very well get into it again but I'm wary of things that smell of far more work than fun. Personal issue, it means nothing outside my own head.

16 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

so do not defend something that ruins the game for 50% of the players because you hate grinding.

I don't want to stop anyone from defending what they like. I support that. I'm not convinced DLC's have that destructive power over NA RvR (to put it mildly).

 

18 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

I do too.

Maybe I'm more selfish than you?

I actually believe I have an above average capacity for grinding. I used to worry about other people's inability to submit to the grind and made a ton of posts to "make NA great again for normal players" (whatever that means). I wanted an OW filled with carefree pvp'ers and I still think DLC's can help a little in that regard.

LOL, people used to tell me: "No! We can't have carefree pvp!? If it doesn't mean anything pvp has negative value! It would be terrible! The economy needs it!!!"

I may be able to grind, but the endless eco grind is a concept that drains my motivation. Those ship-slot spurts, crafting xp and rank are finite grinds I have no trouble with. But the demand that everyone needs to put time in an endless and repeating cycle of grind-like activities is repulsive to me and I will continue to push against it.

[jodgi]

28 minutes ago, Ellias said:

The game died in a week.

Don't let me distract you from your self serving and myopic crusade.

[Ellias]

7 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Don't let me distract you from your self serving and myopic crusade.

What I did that hurt you so much to turn in personal?

I hope you get your arena style game soon and find your peace.

 

[jodgi]

3 minutes ago, Ellias said:

What I did that hurt you so much to turn in personal?

Man, what kind of weak ass keyboard warrior do you take me for?!

5 minutes ago, Ellias said:

I hope you get your arena style game soon and find your peace

Me too, but it won't be soon. So you're stuck with me, I'm afraid.

[admin]

1 hour ago, Ellias said:

NA Legends were more convenient, you jump pick a ship and fight. The game died in a week.

People always say that they want restaurants that are quiet, have a lot of space, and have no lines. 
Yet they wait for 30-40 mins to get into a loud fun cramped place.

[jodgi]

5 minutes ago, admin said:

People always say that they want restaurants that are quiet, have a lot of space, and have no lines. 
Yet they wait for 30-40 mins to get into a loud fun cramped place.

Shit, admin... I do not understand who is made fun of. Makes me feel... insecure. 😳

[Grundgemunkey]

the DLC ships should be pay to play ... rather than pay to win  ...what i mean by that is the dlc ships shouldnt be so OP .. both the le req and hercules are better than anything of comparable size .. and are faster more manouverable than anything bigger . I doubt anyone would have had a porblem with DLC ships if the ships selected as DLC  were for instance ,,Cerberus, Essex Niagra. or even an inger  ...

all those ships are competent without been op ... if you dont want to craft .. you can jump straight away into ship  and play .. its not the best ship available but you can play without crafting

herc and especially le req are pay to win ... thats why there are so many threads about  how they need nerfing

of course the best way to counter either is to sail a herc or le req yourself and  get the dlc ... of course the ultimate winners are the devs .. why wouldnt they make buying the dlc and pay to win an attractive proposition

Edited December 19, 2018 by Grundgemunkey

[Angus MacDuff]

I want my money back on the PTW Herc.  Twice this week I've had to run away from ships that I could not defeat!  They were skilfully handled and caused DAMAGE to my PTW Herc! 

[Grundgemunkey]

57 minutes ago, admin said:

People always say that they want restaurants that are quiet, have a lot of space, and have no lines. 
Yet they wait for 30-40 mins to get into a loud fun cramped place.

which people say this ?

People want a restaurant that has good food and a good atmosphere ... i see a quiet  restaurant .. with lots of space ... im not booking a table ...

i see a place thatt has a line outside people waiting to get in ... im on the phone trying to make a reservation

 

 I see a  mmo game with 2000 ppl online .. as long as the subject matter of the game is appealing I will invest in buying that game. (.as I did 3 yrs ago with NA) .. I see  200 online ... even if the subject matter is great im not going to buy  ( I  wouldnt buy NA today )

 

reviews mean nothing .. with either  Restaurants or online games .... theres  no better review than your restaurant or game been full ... the worst review is no one in your game or restaurant

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Grundgemunkey

[staun]

2 hours ago, Ellias said:

NA Legends were more convenient, you jump pick a ship and fight. The game died in a week.

Think you should go back andRead the text I qouted, then read my  answer. Try to be openminded and not focus on  you don’t like dlc ships.

He said that 50% was agsinst it, so it should be changed. I just stated that then 50% then must be for it. Why should they suffor to please the other 50%. 

It was a comment on imo a bad debate retorik.

[Hethwill]

Cooking is a great hobby and essential activity..

Doing all the ingredients, peeling, you know... cooking.

Some people buy kitchen robots P2W stuff... -.- 

I mean... it buys them time... but no way it reaches the love and flavour of enjoying the cooking.

[AeRoTR]

@Hethwill the Red Duke very interesting approach  and nice try. 

Todays menü "Noobs stuffed with cannon balls", let me farm some noobs before I cook them in my not pay to win super owen 

[Hethwill]

17 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

@Hethwill the Red Duke very interesting approach  and nice try. 

Todays menü "Noobs stuffed with cannon balls", let me farm some noobs before I cook them in my not pay to win super owen 

I get ganked regularly by #godonlyknowsiftheyarenoobsinrearadmiralskins sailing Hercules so yeah man, whatever  

Still here, still sailing. Have fun.

[traitorous mctraitoro]

I didn't read the whole topic.

But those ships you suggested, they are balanced fine I think.

You just have to use them differently.

I mean your comparing a 4th rate and saying it is better than a 5th. Then you compare a 4th rate and say it's worse than 1-3rds. 

I don't get it, do you want Connie balanced so it can beat all lineships?

would  I get it if I read the whole thing, who knows.

[Grundgemunkey]

4 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Cooking is a great hobby and essential activity..

Doing all the ingredients, peeling, you know... cooking.

Some people buy kitchen robots P2W stuff... -.- 

I mean... it buys them time... but no way it reaches the love and flavour of enjoying the cooking.

some people hire a chef and pretend they cooked the meal for their guests ....

Edited December 19, 2018 by Grundgemunkey

[HachiRoku]

6 hours ago, jodgi said:

I don't want to stop anyone from defending what they like. I support that. I'm not convinced DLC's have that destructive power over NA RvR (to put it mildly).

 

That is fine but just like @Powderhorn you say you do not believe the DLC ships are P2W. Both of you do not say why I am wrong though. I will now list the facts that you are going to debunk. If you fail to debunk them I win the argument. 

Fact 1: DLC ships have no economic value to the game. A game that is based around ship crafting and economy. 

Fact 2:A player that does not own the DLC ships is forced to play the game more than a player that owns the DLC for shallow water (Port)battles. Capturing an AI ship is forcing players to play more than DLC owners.

Fact 3: Ship Building and logistics are part of RVR and the core of the game.

Fact 4: XP boosters are also pay to win since you get the better equipment sooner than a player that doesn't buy the boosters. You gain an advantage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play#Pay-to-win_mechanics

Pay-to-win mechanics[edit]

In some games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free who, for example, would otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items. Such games are called "pay-to-win" or "p2w" by critics. Market research indicates that pay-to-win mechanics are considered much more acceptable by players in China than in Western countries, possibly because Chinese players are more habituated to recurring costs associated with gaming, such as gaming café fees.^[36]

A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay.^[37] For example, games—such as Dota 2, StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty, and Maplestory—only allow the purchase of cosmetic items, meaning that a "free-to-play player" will be on the same level as a player who has spent money on the game. Others suggest finding a balance between a game that encourages players to pay for extra content that enhances the game without making the free version feel limited by comparison.^[38] This theory is that players who do not pay for items would still increase awareness of it through word of mouth marketing, which ultimately benefits the game indirectly.

In response to concerns about players using payments to gain an advantage in the game, titles such as World of Tanks have explicitly committed to not giving paying players any advantages over their non-paying peers, while allowing the users buying the "gold" or "premium" ammo and expendables without paying the real money. Features helping to grind easier, such as purchasing a 100% training level or experience points, remain available for the paying customers only.^[39][40]

 

 

As you can see, P2W is forcing players to do more work than players that own the DLC. Real life time matters. This is why I don't even bother attacking the stats of the ships. There is no need to. 

[LeBoiteux]

Some will always hate DLCs, whatever the arguments. This is a vain debate.

[HachiRoku]

7 hours ago, Ellias said:

NA Legends were more convenient, you jump pick a ship and fight. The game died in a week.

I was not. I played one battle and never again. Our clan and other people ingame said they were not going to level again. Legends was a terrible grind in my oppinion

Edited December 19, 2018 by HachiRoku

[HachiRoku]

Just now, LeBoiteux said:

Some will always hate DLCs, whatever the arguments. This is a vain debate.

except I love DLCs..... I just want DLC ships to be allowed into port battles without ruining them. 5th rates are only the beginning. What effect would lineships have?

[Hethwill]

24 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

some people hire a chef and pretend they cooked the meal for their guests ....

That's an alt.

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

That is fine but just like @Powderhorn you say you do not believe the DLC ships are P2W. Both of you do not say why I am wrong though. I will now list the facts that you are going to debunk. If you fail to debunk them I win the argument. 

Fact 1: DLC ships have no economic value to the game. A game that is based around ship crafting and economy. 

Fact 2:A player that does not own the DLC ships is forced to play the game more than a player that owns the DLC for shallow water (Port)battles. Capturing an AI ship is forcing players to play more than DLC owners.

Fact 3: Ship Building and logistics are part of RVR and the core of the game.

Fact 4: XP boosters are also pay to win since you get the better equipment sooner than a player that doesn't buy the boosters. You gain an advantage.

I will debunk.

Fact 1: Crafted ships cost resources that has to be earned off sinking other player ships, there losses can be quantified in ”economic value to the game”.   

Fact 2: Once a DLC is lost, that player will just sail another ship, no difference in “more game” time played. Part 2, there are no AI Herc’s or Requin’s to be captured, AIs capture anything, your statement is actually null -in-void, doesn’t say anything.

Fact 3: This statement has nothing to with the topic, it’s like saying the “sun will rise tomorrow”, of cause it’s correct but its an abstraction, even a distraction from the topic, so it doesn’t count.

Fact 4: Experience, knowhow, will boost xp faster than any bought booster, bought booster are for noobs who get nowhere fast, not “sooner”.   

Most of your statements are one dimensional, not incorporating the whole picture, arena.

I win! 😊

Edited December 19, 2018 by Guest

[HachiRoku]

3 minutes ago, BuckleUpBones said:

I will debunk.

 

Fact 1: Crafted ships cost resources that has to be earned off sinking other player ships, there losses can be quantified in ”economic value to the game”.   

 

Fact 2: Once a DLC is lost, that player will just sail another ship, no difference in “more game” time played. Part 2, there are no AI Herc’s or Requin’s to be captured, AIs capture anything, your statement is actually null -in-void, doesn’t say anything.

 

Fact 3: This statement has nothing to with the topic, it’s like saying the “sun will rise tomorrow”, of cause it’s correct but its an abstraction, even a distraction from the topic, so doesn’t count.

 

Fact 4: Experience, no-how, will boost xp faster than any bought booster, bought booster are for noobs who get nowhere fast, not “sooner”.   

 

Most of your statements are one dimensional, not incorporating the whole picture, arena.

 

I win!

 

hehe. You are completely oblivious to what we are talking about. OMFG I don't know if you are dumb or a troll man but I do find it interesting that you spell Know-how no-how. 

[Guest]

DELETED

Edited December 19, 2018 by Guest

[staun]

57 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

hehe. You are completely oblivious to what we are talking about. OMFG I don't know if you are dumb or a troll man but I do find it interesting that you spell Know-how no-how. 

And yeth he debate as you do. You claim to have the fact. What you say is the truth. Ppl that disagree you basicly Call stupid, in a hope they will be silent ore ppl buy your statement. Yeth you never respond in a fact base on ppl that challange your ideas.

Edited December 19, 2018 by staun

[Grundgemunkey]

1 hour ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

That's an alt.

nah the hired chef is pay to win

an alt is  just someone cooking two different meals