Guest Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Suggestion: Port owners should be able to reserve a certain limited amount of dropped goods - in particularly trading good - for their clan at a fixed price. My suggestion would be 20% or something similar - payed up front by the clan the day before. Why? - Make RvR matter for the clans - It's fair that the clan that pays the timer/maintenance to get some sort of advantage. - Monopolies were commonly used in the timeperiod as a means of organizing the suplies of a colony. Basically merchants were charged with the maintenance of a colony (for European goods) and in return had a monopoly on traded goods from the colony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaleMemes Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 This so much, I would even make it more, say 30, 40%. They are paying like 600,000 a day for this port. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havelock Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 If you really want ports to matter and actually develop the clan-based conquest further, we could make it so only the clan capturing the port and its friendly clans can set contracts. This would solve the problem of alts buying critical ressources too. You'll have to deal with the "this game is already too hard for solo players!" crowd tho (aka ignore them). 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Just now, Trashlock said: If you really want ports to matter and actually develop the clan-based conquest further, we could make it so only the clan capturing the port and its friendly clans can set contracts. This would solve the problem of alts buying critical ressources too. You'll have to deal with the "this game is already too hard for solo players!" crowd tho (aka ignore them). What you propose is akin to economical warfare inter-nationally. For this to work we would need the ability to shut out clans from port ownership within our nations. Or else you get a true monopoly where clans in your own nation block you from buying good to do things like craft with. I'm all for it, seems like every week we have an issue of a clan not doing what it's suppose to do and wrecking this for the rest of us. Wish we could just scrub some clans from their ownership and return certain ports to competent hands 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, Trashlock said: If you really want ports to matter and actually develop the clan-based conquest further, we could make it so only the clan capturing the port and its friendly clans can set contracts. This would solve the problem of alts buying critical ressources too. You'll have to deal with the "this game is already too hard for solo players!" crowd tho (aka ignore them). Yeah but exactly the solo players is the reason I wanted a percentage and not a full monopoly. That way there's something for the casuals, or atleast a way for the casuals to play, and the RvR could start to mean something again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaleMemes Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 40 minutes ago, Trashlock said: If you really want ports to matter and actually develop the clan-based conquest further, we could make it so only the clan capturing the port and its friendly clans can set contracts. This would solve the problem of alts buying critical ressources too. You'll have to deal with the "this game is already too hard for solo players!" crowd tho (aka ignore them). I think that pirates and privateers should be used to give solo players game-play/content, nations should be for clans. *Pirates would be veeeeeeery different though more like outlaws (which is what they were historically) privateers would have access to their nations ports to easily repair, pirates only 5th rates and only capturing ships, etc. Specifics don't matter, what matters is that there would be game-play style aimed at solo/unaffiliated players, so that national gameplay could be focused in on clans, with above mentioned monopolies etc. Right now we have two player types "fighting" over one slice of the game, they should be separated. Pirates for total solos, privateers for solos who want bigger ships and some national identity, and nations for rvr and clan wars players. Just hello kittying over solo players for the sake of hello kittying them over will kill this game, everyone starts out as a solo and a lot of people don't have the time to invest in a clan or the commitments. I'm literally not even in a clan and I still have people giving me shit about "missing the PB" "not seeing you in the screen!" because I wasn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christendom Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 When Russia took Carta, virtually nothing changed in the aspect of getting the caulking refit. Prices still remained high and everyone and their brother just made a russian alt to get the stuff instead of a swede alt. Other than the money, owning the port didn't actually improve our chances of attaining to the good. Kinda stupid IMO. Clans should be able to allow who can access their ports AND who can set contracts. There is virtually zero benefit for a clan to own about 90% of the ports in the game, only costs. Whereas john Q. midshipmen can just sail into a nation owned port at someone else's expense. I would even go so far as clans/players that do not own the port have to pay a "docking fee" if the port owners so wish. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 8 hours ago, Capt Aerobane said: This so much, I would even make it more, say 30, 40%. They are paying like 600,000 a day for this port. Any port that has a rare good should drop into the clan warehouse a small percentage of those goods per day. That might get bump up if you pay for more production/trade goods. Other than getting the tax off the goods most of the folks I know don't get much off owning those ports other than a pain. You still have to out bid every one else and alts to get the goods out of the port. Why if I own a port do I have to do that? I mean I get the tax back, but it's a bit annoying. Clans should get a small share of the goods that are produce (cooper, Tar etc) from those ports that they can in exchange us for them selves or post for sale and make profit off of. That and I should be able to pick what contract I want to fill. If an enemy has a contract or known traitor in nation than I should be able to not pick to fill his contract up when I sale something to the port to fill contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Silberbart Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 All good ideas. I support that idea to make having a port matters. That would reactivate the RvR and makes sense. At the same time I fear players crying loud: "Why should we ever win a PB, when Nation X holds the cartagena port, with its very important upgrade in there?". To solve that, the carta, for example, could be available in more the one port only. A hand full of ports should have such rare products, so it is hard for one nation/clan to dominate all that ports and at the same time and the ports keep beeing important for RvR. All in all: The alt problem can only be solved by clan management like this suggestions. @admin should take a look at this 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 39 minutes ago, Sven Silberbart said: All good ideas. I support that idea to make having a port matters. That would reactivate the RvR and makes sense. At the same time I fear players crying loud: "Why should we ever win a PB, when Nation X holds the cartagena port, with its very important upgrade in there?". To solve that, the carta, for example, could be available in more the one port only. A hand full of ports should have such rare products, so it is hard for one nation/clan to dominate all that ports and at the same time and the ports keep beeing important for RvR. All in all: The alt problem can only be solved by clan management like this suggestions. @admin should take a look at this They wanted to only give one copper port, which would of just solved the same problem I still think it should be more like 3-4. So more than one nation can hold them and fight over them in those parts of the map. Just like there should be another Cart type port too. If the clan got a little slice other than gold they would be more incline to capture that port than just letting others hold it and buy through contracts. I also think they should have some ports reserve for small clans/nations too, that way mega clans that others refuse to fight in fear of getting crushed can't hold all the key ports. Some of them can be limited to smaller clans/nations. We really do need some sort of clan management, not only the logs but a way to hand over a port to a friendly clan. What been killing the US over this weekend is we had three ports dropped by a clan that is pretty much dead. Wasn't able to be on with numbers right with server up time so another nation flipped one of them which was a key port. Another two where flipped cause of timers dropped (one was the dead clan the other a clan made a big mistake). It hurts the nations when they depend on dead clans to hold ports and no way to switch them over other than dropping them or getting another nation to flip them for you which is a pain cause most other nations have there own problems to deal with. When a lot of the port issues with US this week could of been easily handled if we had a port management tool that allows you to give a port over to another clan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 RVR Indeed needs more time to be cooked properly. But we would like to ask Captains to hold on. We are laser focused on the following issues and just cannot reallocate resources elsewhere. Priorities Tutorial and New Player Guidance Open world UI Port UI Once these features are deployed we will be ready to start applying final polish to conquest, rvr, and pve. Regarding the lockdown on resources. We considered letting clans lock the store, but see more negatives in it than positives. Maybe you will help us understand the benefits better? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Kidd Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) If you have control over who can set contracts in the own port you create more RvR and diplomatic... in the nation you create a Need to talk with the port owner to allow your clan to set contracts in it... addionaly the alt's for resources are useless because no an alt has no clan or better say no clan with a good relationship to the port owner... and on the other hand other nations have a Need to capture the port because they Need the stuff from inside... which they cant get with alt's anymore. Edited March 26, 2018 by the Kidd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Hound Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, admin said: RVR Indeed needs more time to be cooked properly. But we would like to ask Captains to hold on. We are laser focused on the following issues and just cannot reallocate resources elsewhere. Priorities Tutorial and New Player Guidance Open world UI Port UI Once these features are deployed we will be ready to start applying final polish to conquest, rvr, and pve. Regarding the lockdown on resources. We considered letting clans lock the store, but see more negatives in it than positives. Maybe you will help us understand the benefits better? I totally agree that the new player experience should come first before the later game RvR (annoying as the current RvR is) As for the lockdown thing i totally feel it benefits people to stop using Alt accounts. However i think it should be optional and set by the Port owner who can enter and who cannot. That way people can lock certain ports while keeping others open, it'll stop the Alt accounts from buying stuff from Cartagena but the clan would have the abilty to open for everyone to do contracts. or is if it ends up being abused is limiting the amount of locked ports you can do to like a maximum of 3 Per Clan. To stop people from creating a new clan to get around the 3 limit, perhaps make it so only people with a certain amount of members can lock ports. Edited March 26, 2018 by Bloody Hound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Kidd Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) a really simple idea would been: The Port Owner can set up some rules... - Only Clanmember can set contracts - (an art whitelist like the friendly clan list) for whitelisting clans that are allowed to set up contracts. - the whole nation can set contracts Edited March 26, 2018 by the Kidd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Hound Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) To be fair though i don't have a alt but if i did there is nothing stopping me from potentially joining HRE with said alt as a 'new player' and just bypassing the locked port that way. Granted i would end up being found out eventually as they would wonder how i'm able to afford said Contract in port. However it is quite a hassle to do to getting said materials that way. This is an example i have no idea how HRE etc handle new recruits Edited March 26, 2018 by Bloody Hound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 25 minutes ago, admin said: RVR Indeed needs more time to be cooked properly. But we would like to ask Captains to hold on. We are laser focused on the following issues and just cannot reallocate resources elsewhere. Priorities Tutorial and New Player Guidance Open world UI Port UI Once these features are deployed we will be ready to start applying final polish to conquest, rvr, and pve. Regarding the lockdown on resources. We considered letting clans lock the store, but see more negatives in it than positives. Maybe you will help us understand the benefits better? Any hints on those magical 25 ports that suppose to help you get even more back income wise or something? Would be nice if those ports actually offered the other crafting perks that we get from capturing AI ships. That would give folks a reason to fight over other ports than Tar and Copper ports. Which really no one fights over cause once they are owned by one or two mega/ELITE clans every one else gives up and just sends alts into the port to buy stuff. That are the port is so freaking far away no one bothers (the gulf copper port). WHich by the way if EDR open that port they would get way more business. Prussia kinda doing it a nice way that helps others get in there and have a chance, though wish more contracts was posted? Do ya'll fill contracts if some one puts them up for a decent price? Aksing mainly cause I haven't had a copper palting drop in ages and or actually lucked with it in AI ship? WOuld be nice to pop in and be able to buy them once in a while, but I figure folks buy them up and than toake them back to home reagions and sale them for a killing. 8 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said: 1. Doesn't matter who control ports, alts are everywhere. Economic warfare is just for new players and casuals. As soon as Prussia got copper, teak and white oak, we got also a lot of alts in the nation. 2. Clan pays ridiculous upkeep money and has no benefits for that. Very few ports earn above the cost. That why I wish we can pick contracts we want to fill. Why would I fill an enemy contracts just cause it's the highest one? The upkeeps all ready made US loose a good number of ports this week cause of folks not setting them or not paying or worse dead clans dropping ports. Luckly if it wasn't for the Bahamas captures our moral would be at an all time low from loosing ports from bad mechanics. One was lost cause of an idiot clan, but there actions of forgetting to put clans on friendly list pissed a lot of folks off too not just Prussians...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelsons Barrel Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 You get rare upgrades still through sealed bottles, ai traders and PvP drops, of course not in the same amount, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havelock Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bloody Hound said: To be fair though i don't have a alt but if i did there is nothing stopping me from potentially joining HRE with said alt as a 'new player' and just bypassing the locked port that way. Granted i would end up being found out eventually as they would wonder how i'm able to afford said Contract in port. However it is quite a hassle to do to get said materials that way. You could do that, but not for long. HRE has a system of "verified traders" and no clan members are allowed to overbid them on several critical ressources (including cartagena tar ofc). They sell it to the clan warehouse for a fixed price, that way we keep costs low, accessibility high and the time invested in shipment efficient. So if that new player comes into my clan those traders will notice quickly and then tell him about that rule. You wont make much out of that. 30 minutes ago, admin said: Regarding the lockdown on resources. We considered letting clans lock the store, but see more negatives in it than positives. Maybe you will help us understand the benefits better? I think it just needs to be an option. It would suck if every non-clan player couldnt set contracts in any clan-owned ports. What if you add to the entry rights "Friendly Clans only" (besides national and free-for-all)? That would not change the entry rights per se, but close the port for contracts. Right now RvR doesnt matter much on critical ressources since alts can buy everything. Friendly clan lists already solved the problem of port battle entry, i think it would work for economy too. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NethrosDefectus Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) It would be a terrible idea in my opinion. Surely it will lead to nations with one massive clans because it will be the only way get the stuff from the port. And/or cause prices to rise dramatically purely down to greed. Nation A own two teak ports, both of those ports are owned by the same clan. Those two ports are the nation's only source of teak, that puts them at the mercy of that clan. The clan will be able to ensure they keep their own contracts as low as possible, say 300 a log but they will put it on contract in the nation's capital for 5k a log. You would argue that if they can keep the price low then that will allow them to sell it lower in the capital, BUT never underestimate the allure of a massive profit margain Edited March 26, 2018 by NethrosDefectus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Kidd Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Trashlock said: I think it just needs to be an option. It would suck if every non-clan player couldnt set contracts in any clan-owned ports. What if you add to the entry rights "Friendly Clans only" (besides national and free-for-all)? That would not change the entry rights per se, but close the port for contracts. Right now RvR doesnt matter much on critical ressources since alts can buy everything. Friendly clan lists already solved the problem of port battle entry, i think it would work for economy too. think similar than Havelock.. but dont use the friendly clans list... this list is to small... try to create a new list without a maximum of 10 clans only... so i repeat myself... Allow the owner to say only my clan can set up contract or only my clan and all clans i whitelistet are allowed to set contract or let them say, the whole nation can set up contracts Edited March 26, 2018 by the Kidd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Kidd Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 5 minutes ago, NethrosDefectus said: It would be a terrible idea in my opinion. Surely it will lead to nations with one massive clans because it will be the only way get the stuff from the port. And/or cause prices to rise dramatically purely down to greed. Nation A own two teak ports, both of those ports are owned by the same clan. Those two ports are the nation's only source of teak, that puts them at the mercy of that clan. The clan will be able to ensure they keep their own contracts as low as possible, say 300 a log but they will put it on contract in the nation's capital for 5k a log. You would argue that if they can keep the price low then that will allow them to sell it lower in the capital, BUT never underestimate the allure of a massive profit margain yea.. and exactly that will make it a Need to talk with this clan... so if they dont make "fair Prices" you dont support them with defending the port while it gets attacked... both side have a Need... the port owner Need friends that defend the port against enemys, because the port is now worth to get attacked.. and you Need the resources... so ist a win win 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palatinose Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 @Lars Kjaer thx for the input, interesting discussion! Making RvR matter again is one of the big issues currently (remember the fights over Carta it was just fun). Fighting over essential ressources might be the way!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Hound Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Trashlock said: You could do that, but not for long. HRE has a system of "verified traders" and no clan members are allowed to overbid them on several critical ressources (including cartagena tar ofc). They sell it to the clan warehouse for a fixed price, that way we keep costs low, accessibility high and the time invested in shipment efficient. So if that new player comes into my clan those traders will notice quickly and then tell him about that rule. You wont make much out of that. I thought as much as we do the same. Once i've set a contract though nothing is stopping me from entering that port later on and claiming what i've got and if i put a mega high price i'm bound to get alot. It could be done by keeping the port open to the Nation but only the Clan (and if selected friends) can put buy contracts in port. It'll then cancel all Non-Clan buy contracts and return/claim the cancelled contract money and current brought items to said person who placed it. Now whats to stop a clan from putting this on every port stopping anyone but the clan from buying? We'll we'll need a limit so you can only set 3 ports (example) that can do this option. to stop people from making Alt Clan to increase the limit? Make it so only a clan with a certain number of members can set a Clan only buy contract port. This should also not effect anyone putting sell contracts. Only buy ones. But then what's to stop multiple large clans from doing this? so for example HRE, CABAL etc etc put Clan only and friends meaning that could be atleast 6 Ports no one but the clan and friends can buy from. this could be a snowball effect where all the large clans are friends lock ports and it could end up (example) 90% of the Nation ports locked behind the largest clans. This is fine if it there was Clan warfare. Meaning you need to join one of these large clans which limits lone players and smaller clans. Edited March 26, 2018 by Bloody Hound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 46 minutes ago, the Kidd said: Only Clanmember can set contracts This would cause wars more. If you could limit what clans can join from any nation. Would also make it harder for enemy alts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Hound Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) I totally get what the Admin is saying though it causes so many negatives and alot of coding to stop all these holes which people could potentially abuse. Easiest way i see is making it so the clan of the port gets a % of a "selected" (Chosen by diplomats in port menu) produced item in the port. That way the Clan gets something and it does not mess with any buy/sell orders So for example Cartagena produces 20 Cartagena Tar the clan owning it gets 5 Cartagena Tar for free the rest goes to buy orders? That way the owning clan gets something regardless and it does not mess with any of the buy/sell stuff and it'll require less coding? Edited March 26, 2018 by Bloody Hound 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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