Is there obligation for PVP server to protect PVE only veterans?

[Slim McSauce]

DISCLAIMER: This is on the topic of PVE only vets, not new players. Of course we want new player protections, this is about server choices of veteran players.

 

Is PVP server required to protect PVE only veterans? Or should PVE only players go to PVE server? Should there even be a PVP and PVE server? What does the community think about this?

I think while we have a PVE server, PVE only vets shouldn't be protected from PVP. I think anyone who is currently playing PVP server as a trader/crafter/PVE only should accept that its their responsibility to protect themselves, you don't get immunity because you're a "harmless trader" who is crafting war ships for their side, or because you want to "relax and do some PVE" without risk, when devs put time and money into a server for just that.

That's me, what are your thoughts on the matter?

Keep it civil.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[jodgi]

No safe zone has been tried. It is believed it made server pop go down since pve'ers, new and old, were chased away. I have no idea if that is really true.

I don't care much. As long as we have eco and pve OW will be a 10/1 ratio pve/pvp thing however we strain ourselves to fix it. Protection or not isn't the real issue, people not wanting to fight is the issue. Eco will forever block us from reaching a critical mass of pvp willing players.

Some people think OW needs a lot more PVE content, then everything will fall into place. Yes, PVE'ers will be distracted for a finite amount of time.

[TheHaney]

Well, as a new player (boo hiss) I've got the following:

- There should be one, single, PvP-enabled server.

- There should be no protection zones, of any kind, outside of mission distance from capital cities.

- There should be reduced rewards for killing players more than three ranks below the attacker, if they are piloting a trading vessel within their faction-controlled counties. If the trader is in neutral or enemy territory or if the trader is three ranks or less away from the attacker, full rewards.

- There needs to be an ammo system, or other systems to impact performance after sailing long distances and staying at sea for extended periods of time. Repairs and rum by themselves are not sufficient to eliminate long-term camping of reinforcement boundaries.

- There needs to be far more content and game systems designed around PvE play, but NOT at the expense of PvP. This is a PvP game.

- There are oodles of PvP mmo's that have a huge population of PvE players because there is enough in the game to make it worth the effort.

- With more systems and more content and more depth, PvP'ers will be happy because the population goes up and there is more prey. PvE'ers will be happy because there's enough to do, and enough people to maintain escorts and groups and clans, that it's worth the risk.

Edited November 26, 2017 by TheHaney

[Thonys]

15 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

DISCLAIMER: This is on the topic of PVE only vets, not new players. Of course we want new player protections, this is about server choices of veteran players.

 

Is PVP server required to protect PVE only veterans? Or should PVE only players go to PVE server? Should there even be a PVP and PVE server? What does the community think about this?

I think while we have a PVE server, PVE only vets shouldn't be protected from PVP. I think anyone who is currently playing PVP server as a trader/crafter/PVE only should accept that its their responsibility to protect themselves, you don't get immunity because you're a "harmless trader" who is crafting war ships for their side, or because you want to "relax and do some PVE" without risk, when devs put time and money into a server for just that.

That's me, what are your thoughts on the matter?

Keep it civil.

 

 

 seriously al this talk about pvp /pve 

it's all complete nonsense, everybody talks like a chicken without a head

i hear people complaining about save zones, and now it is the servers again 

let me tell you something,.the ones that complain about the fleets in the save zone s  are afraid for AI and can not understand that these zones are there to protect the young captain being bullied by gankers.

those hard pvp screamers,,....why don't you all try EVE for a week,  > in the breeding zones, of the new players,..and do some pvp there ,i  bed you are done in day, you will be destroyed,  with your escape pod as well,.. by the carebears ... in a blink of an eye.....  believe me you come back crawling on your knees to become a captain  on your surprise again).

 

to overcome there PVP  playstyle they invent new ways on the forums to let the game going in a direction where they feel themselves useful, at the expense of other PvE players

all this chitchat about safe zones, and pvp servers, and PvE servers is just a lot of crap talk , in a bottle of water where they think it is rum...

if you don't like it take break or go to play legends

the servers are not idle of player but they are all waiting for the br change that's all

(the wasa and other stuff need an overhaul )that is why people are gone for a while 

and it has nothing to do with servers  and save zones

those pvp players do not know where to look that's all..

and believe me, i am civil ATM    .... i would have sad other things actually

why don't you all stop talking about this subject ( just asking that's all )and talk about bugs there are still a couple to find....

 

 

ps. remember if the pve player was not here ,you could not even sail a Bellona (because you cant even build one on your own,.. because you are to lazy to build even a cutter )

 

TO devs : remove the notes of the ships notes >>> and be done with this chjit

also the change nation redeemable whats an out balancing game tool (if you  change nation you start all over again)

Edited November 27, 2017 by Thonys

[IndianaGeoff]

The game has a population problem, not a PvE problem. Safe zones are fine.  Some nights I want to play hard, some nights get on for an hour and do a trade run or smash an AI.  If we go back to ganks in Charleston harbor and nightly gang rapes up and down the coast, I'll do something else.   So rather than grinding or collecting mats for crafting that will end up in ships for me or my clan, I'll play another game.  That means less out there to fight.

If I don't have a low risk options for the nights I don't have a big block of time, I'll go elsewhere with my play time.

[TheHaney]

27 minutes ago, Thonys said:

let me tell you something ,.the ones that complain about the fleets in the save zone s  are afraid for AI and can not understand that these zones are there to protect the young captain being bullied by gankers   (those hard pvp screemers,,....why don't you all try EVE for a week,  > in the breeding zones, of the new players,..and do some pvp there ,i  bed you are done in day,, you will be destroyed,  with your escape pod as well ,.. by the carebears ... in a blink of an eye.....  believe me you come back crawling on your knees to become a captain  on your surprise again).

1) If you're going to make a point of being an ass, try to structure sentences decently.

2) EVE is a great example of a PvP game that goes to great lengths to protect it's PvE players, so your reference is ill-advised.

3) This game is in alpha, we will discuss what we please. If YOU don't like it, YOU can piss right off.

Edited November 27, 2017 by TheHaney

[Thonys]

2 minutes ago, TheHaney said:

 

we will discuss what we please. If YOU don't like it, YOU can hello kitty right off.

 

and so do I

you can walk my plank too

good day  captain   

Edited November 27, 2017 by Thonys

[Slim McSauce]

1 hour ago, IndianaGeoff said:

The game has a population problem, not a PvE problem. Safe zones are fine.  Some nights I want to play hard, some nights get on for an hour and do a trade run or smash an AI.  If we go back to ganks in Charleston harbor and nightly gang rapes up and down the coast, I'll do something else.   So rather than grinding or collecting mats for crafting that will end up in ships for me or my clan, I'll play another game.  That means less out there to fight.

If I don't have a low risk options for the nights I don't have a big block of time, I'll go elsewhere with my play time.

I disagree, safezones are waay too big and there's too many of them.

 

Just look at this, this is overreaching, new players don't need this much space. A single capital zone would be enough. Not to mention this applies to all players not just new players which was the original intention.

I don't mind having a safe main capital zone for missions. But anything else is a part of the PVP scene. Trading, crafting, whatever, you're building weapons for your nation, another nation should have the ability to stop that, less we gimp the sandbox even more.

When we have entire nations completely inside safe zone, there's a problem. This game is suppose to be a realistic 18th century naval action sandbox, yet we're relying on gamey AI to protect territory instead of leaving it to the players.

In the wise words of one of the Bungie game designers who worked on Halo 3 that I don't remember their name, every action you take out of the players hands, the less game you give them to play.

We have a bit of an epidemic here, we're losing parts of the game. Before defending/attacking territory was the norm, now everything is AI, PVE, notes, safe and cuddly. It just doesn't fit with the ethos of Naval Action. We can have the PVE, the trading and econ, but if we can do all those things with 0 risk, what exactly are we playing? Certainly not a fun, enticing large scale naval war of nations, but a cushy "merchants life RP" with WAR as a 2nd thought, as if everything at this time didn't revolve around war.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Aster]

I would encourage anyone looking for some insight here to watch a video on bartle's taxonomy.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1drDuaQXm_U See if you can identify what the problem is. At this point the player base is pretty fubar and isn't going to recover until release/ some super patch that everyone wants to check out.

 

Edited November 27, 2017 by Aster

[Slim McSauce]

@Aster 

Nice video. Naval Action definitely falls into the Day Z style MMO. Most players on the PVP server would consider themselves predators,  we don't really have an achiever type role to directly compete with that. You're either a predator or you're not or you're doing PBs which is sorta different.

devs in this direction are trying to box in what little prey type player who'd get hunted by PVPers in an effort to try keep in new players to go with the upcoming UI and tutorial which is a good move by the devs. But we have a bunch of PVPers who are somewhat abandoned in way of mechanics go. While PBs remain a constant for the PVP side of EU, global has taken a hit. Port battles are too cumbersome to host in low pop nations (which is all of global). 

Only global feels this. Either add features specifically with global in mind or merge the servers, global is at its lowest pop since even the dark days of the great wipe and doesn't show much hope of growing into a state where players can run into each other like EU. If reinforcements are to stay as big as they are, there absolutely needs to be a mini PB style PVP objective that players can access at any time of the day without setup.  Not everyone has the patience for OW hunting or setting up PBs. EU doesn't feel this problem as much, but it's still there. Even EU with 800 or so, players feel like OW is lacking.

Back my original point, should PVP hold PVErs? I'd say devs should never do something as brash as reinforcement zones without putting some kind of balancing content the other way. Capitals have been a PVP staging ground for a while now. It was no mystery that removing them would displace pretty much all PVPers to areas of the map that can't hold PVP. They don't have to remove safe zones, as much as me and a few others would like the whole map to be a f****** bloodbath, some OW PVP content, and some more pve and exploratory type events will do for now, atleast until devs get all the boring stuff out of the way.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Rhodry Heidenrich]

I definitely agree that the safe zones are too large. They need to be reduced in size as to only really offer benefits to less experienced players who don't have a need to venture far from home. 

However, with the current game population (especially on Global) the vast majority of the map is a safe zone. If you don't want to be found, you won't be. So all of this is academic until the game leaves "ghost town" status. 

 

[Landsman]

12 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Should there even be a PVP and PVE server?

The "PvP" server basically is the PvE server now. I'm not against veterans playing PvE but why should they get magic protection while doing so on the alleged PvP server ? ... just why?

[Zoky]

3 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Even EU with 800 or so, players feel like OW is lacking

Has something changed on eu server? Last time I played (5 days ago) we were barely breaking 500 during eu primetime. Funny, when I started playing my clan mates would tell me not to go hunting if there is less then 700 people online. Too little people, they said 

[Landsman]

11 hours ago, jodgi said:

Some people think OW needs a lot more PVE content, then everything will fall into place. Yes, PVE'ers will be distracted for a finite amount of time.

Pretty much this. And jumping and wasting some useless carebears on their way to their PvE event isn't good PvP either... Players either want to PvP or they don't...

[Forbin]

Quote

 Players either want to PvP or they don't...

World is not black or white...Sometimes people want PvP, sometimes they don't....and most of us don't have the time to play on both servers....

PvPers, if you want PvP, Capitals are not the good place to start your hunt, use you grey matter 

Edited November 27, 2017 by Forbin

[jodgi]

7 minutes ago, Forbin said:

PvPers, if you want PvP, Capitals are not the good place to start your hunt, use you grey matter 

Thanks for the heads up.

There are a few, pretty much, pure pvp players still in OW. I don't know how many but I'd argue they are probably something like 1% of the server pop. Almost everyone I know or knew aren't playing anymore because of the pvp situation. I don't really know any part time pvp'ers or pve'ers though a few rvr dudes have snuck into my circle of aquaintances

When OW was first released it was easier to find a fight than it is now with ten times the numbers. The first group of players set loose in OW were predominantly pvp focused players. We still "had to" pve grind for rank and a little cash, but the point of being there was pvp.

I'm glad you enjoy the "not black and white" situation with the inevitable low rate of pvp availability. 

[John Sheppard]

The safe zones have already been reduced 

Not all the people want to do PvP all the time .. most want to to do their stuff but have the chance for PVP and PB whenever they wish .. nobody has the right to tell them to go on PVE server .. those people that do can pretend that they never do pve but we all know that they had to do it as well even if they won't admit

now .. for the safe zones .. i think its a slightly broken mechanic in the sense that it doesn't work as intended.. it doesn't protect new players 

i see a lot of new players and players who have been offline for long time and don't understand how it works , being ganked by the hundreds .. the reason is that 95% of the time missions spawn outside the protected zone and the new players don't know the extent of it or how to cancel missions until they find a suitable one .. so they go out in their pve ships with no skills whatsoever most of them don't even know how to use manual sails (evident by how many times you can see "help my ship just stopped and won't move what to do??" in nation chat everyday) and they get attacked by a group of enemy players and lose within minutes

the only ones who actually know to use the safe zones effectively are the so called "pve veterans" 

so in order for this feature to be functioning as it should (to protect new players) pls reduce the mission spawn radius 

and before every pirate here goes screaming "wtf are you talking about then we will have no one to attack ..  game will die .. the world will end" etc i would say  if someone is going for PVE he DOESN"T want to be disturbed by the likes of you .. what if it's a player who haven't played in a year and doesn't remember anything .. he just wants to check out the game and try to remember how to use his ship .. i see a lot of that hapening and they lose their ship before even completing one mission.. GUESS WHAT! they stop playing again

you can't expect someone to come back see that he has no mods no skills and ask him to go do pvp .. in order to even get some money for some half decent ships / cannons / mods they NEED to do PVE .. if you don't like it deal with it  and pls don't give all that shiit " oh well i fight without any mods haha "  that's admirable but before you can be a rally driver you need to get a licence first 

so like i said ppl need the chance to do pve undisturbed so they can get their shiit together .. and don't worry when they do they WILL look for pvp coz pve all the time is boring but when they do come they will be much more prepared and able and present a much better challenge (don't understand what some people get from ganking trader brigs and new players , players who don't know a damn thing , some are even proud and present it as some sort of achievement when they kill a newbie) we're not born with the knowledge of naval action we all had to start somewhere .. we were all noobs sometime but became better over time

[Hethwill]

There's place for everything in the PvP server. Zones are just another mechanic.

Actually it must be seen the other way around. PvP server has player versus player also, on top of the social and economy, whereas PvE server has no player interaction other than socializing and economy.

I will agree on something though - everything that anyone needs can be found within the Zones - and in this little factor resides one of the issues raised. A crafter does not need to move further away when fir, oak and teak can be found inside a zone. Same with Iron and Coal and Hemp. At the same time Missions can be conducted inside.

On top of that geography of some homelands do make them odd.

But, to answer Slim's question - I do like 1 server has it all philosophy. So yes, and taking RL examples, the warriors will protect the village so that farmers can produce good in safety. A village will always have more farmers than warriors.

[Forbin]

1 hour ago, jodgi said:

I'm glad you enjoy the "not black and white" situation with the inevitable low rate of pvp availability. 

I get your point, but you can't heal an headache by cutting the head.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Thonys said:

 seriously al this talk about pvp /pve 

it's all complete nonsense, everybody talks like a chicken without a head How delightfully condescending and not generalising at all.

i hear people complaining about save zones, and now it is the servers again Servers are not the issue, the mechanic is. Safezones are magic zones and the game sells itself as a hardcore, realistic naval wargame set in the age of sails. I have never heard of magic in the revolutionary wars.

let me tell you something,.the ones that complain about the fleets in the save zone s  are afraid for AI and can not understand that these zones are there to protect the young captain being bullied by gankers. *Wrong

those hard pvp screamers,,....why don't you all try EVE for a week,  > in the breeding zones, of the new players,..and do some pvp there ,i  bed you are done in day, you will be destroyed,  with your escape pod as well,.. by the carebears ... in a blink of an eye.....  believe me you come back crawling on your knees to become a captain  on your surprise again). Eve is an entirely different game, both in terms of econ, crafting, fighting and oh right - realism. The comparison is invalid by the very definition of the word "invalid".

 

to overcome there PVP  playstyle they invent new ways on the forums to let the game going in a direction where they feel themselves useful, at the expense of other PvE players Rather than just running your proverbial mouth of - would you care to refer to these "invent new ways on the forums to let the game going in a direction where they feel themselves useful"? - I'm uncertain as to what you mean, but if you mean to say that players shouldn't discuss gameplay mechanics/aspects then I think you should reconsider joining EA games, since.... well.... they are in development and the very reason why some publishers choose EA model of development is to get player opinions. If you disagree with the PvP players you could voice an opinion, but it seems to me like you're trying to censure the PvP players rather than partake in the development of the game. 

all this chitchat about safe zones, and pvp servers, and PvE servers is just a lot of crap talk , in a bottle of water where they think it is rum... Irrelevant.

if you don't like it take break or go to play legends Irrelevant.

the servers are not idle of player but they are all waiting for the br change that's all There's been issues with RoE, PvP, RvR, Econ, Crafting long before the BR got as screwed as it is atm. Your sentence is illogical and nonsensical.

(the wasa and other stuff need an overhaul )that is why people are gone for a while Prob not the only reason - the wasa hardly constitutes a major issue, it's just the only ship anyone use atm.

and it has nothing to do with servers  and save zones I disagree

those pvp players do not know where to look that's all.. Pot calling the kettle black. Any society, or player in this instance, actively trying to censor anyone else from having an opinion, or deriding that opinion through either ridicule or blank dismissal, is merely showcasing their own lack of faith in their own conviction.

and believe me, i am civil ATM    .... i would have sad other things actually How sad could you be? Civil has nothing to do with the issue, this post is in its entirety more or less inelligeble and we'd have no idea if you tried to insult us or not.

why don't you all stop talking about this subject ( just asking that's all )and talk about bugs there are still a couple to find.... Why don't you do your civic duty and point them out for the devs so they can be addressed?

 

 

ps. remember if the pve player was not here ,you could not even sail a Bellona (because you cant even build one on your own,.. because you are to lazy to build even a cutter ) Again with the generalising. I'm a lvl 50 crafter, crafts all my ships myself, my clan is a PvP oriented clan and we have a majority of players that are lvl 50 crafters. Try to do something other than fishing in the safezone - getting mats actually requires you to leave the safezone from time to time.

 

TO devs : remove the notes of the ships notes >>> and be done with this chjit Only sensible sentence in the whole post.

also the change nation redeemable whats an out balancing game tool (if you  change nation you start all over again) Why not make the nation change ingame an option? Let the community create a reason for players to stay - most play these games because they are social, not just for winning. If winning is really that important to you - try play some singleplayer games.. There the ai is almost as dumb as it is ingame..

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

There's place for everything in the PvP server. Zones are just another mechanic.

Actually it must be seen the other way around. PvP server has player versus player also, on top of the social and economy, whereas PvE has no player interaction other than socializing and economy.

I will agree on something though - everything that anyone needs can be found within the Zones - and in this little factor resides one of the issues raised. A crafter does not need to move further away when fir, oak and teak can be found inside a zone. Same with Iron and Coal and Hemp. At the same time Missions can be conducted inside.

On top of that geography of some homelands do make them odd.

But, to answer Slim's question - I do like 1 server has it all philosophy. So yes, and taking RL examples, the warriors will protect the village so that farmers can produce good in safety. A village will always have more farmers than warriors.

And the conquest competition doesn't make sense when one nation has three unconquerable regions.. I'd say remove the competition since it has done nothing to promote RvR and it's hardly an indicator for the best RvR nation ingame.. GB has the most ports, but are the worst PB fleet ingame, the swedes are arguably the best with the RUS (still though they need to get their act together) the second best. The RUS are far from a top three and the swedes are the normal nr. 2.

[Hethwill]

I won't disagree.

This last changes for the clans to guide the management of port - upkeep and taxes - is nice. Maybe it could be enhanced and even make the coastal defences part of that system. Even Naval Bases as a extension, a proper "preparation for war" supply system to keep Battle Squadron at a ready state...

So many can be done

The essential question remains - why conquer a lot of ports when everything essential ( not elite ) can be acquired within the zones ?

 

[Anne Wildcat]

I enjoy both PVE and PVP.  The PVE I do is trading in enemy waters to make money to buy ships.  I enjoy the thrill of possibly being attacked when I am PVEing. Over 1500 hours in game, I believe, and still not max rank (1 before) bc most xp has come from PVP in Suprise as the largest ship.  The capitals used to be the area to find PVP but ever since the eco map changed, people moved away from capitals and its harder to find PVP. Now the PVErs are moving back to capitals it's still hard to find PVP.  Luckily we have combat news to show where the action is.  I feel sorry for role players like Pagan Pete who PVP as trader hunters bc now with missions giving so much money, everything needed to build a fir/fir (whatever) ship are inside safe zones, and ships buyable by PVE marks, there are fewer traders to hunt.  And now with Legends, most people who want fair fights have moved there. I don't know what the solution is, just sharing my thoughts. Personally, I'd love to find fair fights on the OW but would more than likely lose, which is ok, bc I hate the PVE to unlock slots and have 0 fancy books or upgrades. I really really... hate upgrades. A casual player such as myself stands no chance in a PVP match (outside of ganking). And I came to this game for the PVP.  If I want PVE, I'll play POTBS.

 

Little note. Originally there was no PVE server or missions (I believe) but they were added because players asked for them. 

[Anne Wildcat]

Another side note. I never did much PVP (did some) in POTBS bc you had to have all the upgrades and special consumables to stand a chance.  NA was nice bc it did not have any of that but now we are here with requiring special upgrades to stand a chance in a fair fight. Ugh!

[Cabral]

5 minutes ago, Anne Wildcat said:

Another side note. I never did much PVP (did some) in POTBS bc you had to have all the upgrades and special consumables to stand a chance.  NA was nice bc it did not have any of that but now we are here with requiring special upgrades to stand a chance in a fair fight. Ugh!

 I agree, this game got worse in that aspect.