OMG i'm so fed up with swedish crying about GB "backstabing" them . In fact they don't shut up about it lol . They like to twist facts and forget others so much that it wants to make people puke
I'm tired of writing this over and over again only for some swedish troll to grab onto one phrase and twist it out of context , ignoring the rest of the argument(s)
If you disagree consider explaining why exactly, like a structured debate with logical arguments and not just "this is BS" which does not explain why you hold a certain point of view, and which exactly arguments here you disagree with .
Again this is not a post of brits complaining about what the swedes have done but rather a post aimed at informing people, who have heard only one side of the story , about what drove the brits to this controversial decision.
This WILL be lengthy and if you can't be bothered to devote 5 minutes to quickly read over a post then consider NOT posting any snarky comments and look like an ignorant fool , who doesn't contribute anything to the topic . Thank you for you understanding
So why DID GB leave the swedish alliance REALLY?
Let me start from the beginning , how this alliance came to be in the first place
Havoc (along with many others) wanted to overthrow the russians as they felt they are too powerfull and should be counterbalanced
GB was approached to join the alliance . As we had already been at war with russians and losing we shared our concerns that if we enter the alliance we will serve only as a meat shield against the russians who will focus us even more (atleast till that point their attention was split) SPOILER it happened exactly that way
Russians came down from tumbado like an unstoppable force and started taking every port in their path . When we asked help from our swedish and dutch allies we were met by comments like "We can't afford the outposts you've got to deal with it on your own . But do come screen for us tomorrow" or "WTF you crying about??? you haven't lost your crafting port yet so shut up and go flip port X"
Only by a fluke accidnet /miracle we managed to NOT lose Salamanca (a port we would never had been able to re-rake as it is very easy to defend) only due to some russian captains paniking and joining the PB few seconds early which then allowed our screening fleet (which untill then did not have enough BR) to tag the rest into battle which was very costly for GB. The swedes did make a reluctant appearance with a bunch of 3rd rates and a 2nd rate or 2 , in total i believe it was 7 (seven) swedes "Screening" with possibly 2 more joining later
After that we started losing ports one after the other yet our "allies" were nowhere to be found we informed our "allies" that if nothing will be done to assist us we will be forced to capitulate to the russians as they are offering us reasonable terms and the huge effort of building up all the ports was fresh on everybody's mind. The swedes ignored this , so few days later we signed a truce with RUS with the entire area around of our crafting waters being protected and RvR allowed on certain ports like Bluefields to train GB players . The only request Russia made was that we do not screen for their enemies in offensive port battles . EVEN tho some GB captains ignored this , the russians did not break the truce recognizing the impact of taking such a large nation as GB out of the game.
The swedish and other allies met this turn of events with , quite francly , hilarious outrage and mockery saying that we should had consulted/informed them before withdrawing from the alliance and saying that it was a mistake since they would apparently come screen for us IF the russians had reached our crafting port . Ofc this was all just talk as when the russians came within 15K of belize to try do hostility missions , our allies were never there . I'm sure it would be just like the other times when they said "we don't have time" "it's a bad day" "we're not in the mood" or "we don't have outposts there and it's too far to sail" . We informed them that our truce with the russians is only temporary untill we regain our depleted strength (as scraping combat marks to make 1st rates was very difficult at the time) to fight them once more (and we had made that thing clear to the russians aswell and they were fine with it since they wanted REAL PBs)
Fast forward few weeks and @Captain Cid's crew joins GB and specially thanks to @Shocktrooper Basteyy's excellent leadership we start fighting and actually winning against russians for the first time. We resume active role in the alliance helping and screening where we can , sometimes even when it's only few minutes after our own port battles yet we begin to notice some strange patterns.
For example :
On more than one occasion when going to attack a russian port , our screening fleet was attacked by duch or swedish players and when we ask our allies why is this , what's going on , again we get excuses like "it was not directly like in front of the port you are attacking , it was 50k away therefore it's free for all OW PvP". We argued that it's not coz this is part of RvR operations and hinders the ability of our PB fleet to get into the actuall PB. We were silenced with a very dismissive attitude but we swalled it for the good of the common goal
In time this sort of things kept happening even going as far in some cases of us going help screen our allies into their PB , then on the way back our screening fleet gets attacked by other "allies" . Again gets called PvP . When we bring it up we get dismissed again. We swallow it for the common good aswell...
Multiple more offences of our "allies" attacking our screening or hostility fleets sometimes already very damaged and running back home with russians on our tails , then getting tagged and finished off by "allies" who were supposed to help us against the russian fleet chassing us but no they choose the easy target. Again we are crazy and it's just PvP and no OW Pvp agreement is feasible . We swallow this aswell for the common goal
Multiple instances of reporting our position , heading , fleet composition and possible intention in gobal chat in-game and we dare ask our allies why they did it? "WTF don't over-react it was just a joke , oh you got all killed? LOL well it's war , stop crying and deal with it , you can't tell us what we can and can't type wherever we want. But do come screen tomorrow" We said ok but don't do it again pls we're losing ships for no reason . They laughed at us....
Soon after 15-20 , sometimes more swedes camping outside SdC in big ships became a usual sight , this being discussed multiple times in nation and decided to try not fight them to avoid generating further hostility between us . In any case at the times, our best players were usually busy either flipping or defending our ports We asked the swedes multiple times to stop coming with such big numbers everyday as it was causing an increasingly problematic logistical issue not to mention that a lot of people became unwilling to help the swedes . We informed them about it on multiple occasions but the swedes chose to instead mock and insult us for suggesting such a thing "OW agreements are impossible only idiots would think one is possible" We suggested them alternative , more productive targets like Esteros / Tumbado just like we had a lot of people ganking russians there succesfully but again no . We even asked if the swedes could arrange ONE day per week that they would NOT come with so many people in front of our crafting port so our crafters could peacefully move around stuff and build us more ships to throw at the russian ship-grinder . Aparently this one small compromise was an outrageous request so all we got was more insults and mockery for our trouble.
Me personally and others had repeatedly asked the swedes to find a compromise for those issues and informed them that the "balance of hate" (for lack of a better description) was shifting from hating the russians to hating the swedes coz atleast the russians were honest about things and were not causing us so much damage as the swedes. We were ignored and mocked as usual. As time progressed and things continue to be discussed in our own nation and ,contrary to popular request, i informed the swedes that 70% of the british clans have decided to terminate their alliance and will no longer help screen for sweden , on the contrary will be going to war if the above situation persists, so all the claims of GB suddenly backstabing their great allies , sweden is a total lie fabricated by HAVOC as can be proven by the screenshot
Even this was met with insults and mockery as usual . So it was decided to screw the swedes and go to war . I was not allowed to formaly declare it , as it was felt that i had given more than ample warning and as it turned out the swedes knew about it already due to some people having lose tongues so them acting all surprised is total BS . They were on scene to stop the hostility within minutes.
As myself and others have said this was a predictable move , if you treat someone like a dog and beat them too much they will bite you in the ass . In our case we did issue many warnings. The deciding point and what pushed us over the edge was when @rediii himself ordered us to do a multiflip the next day ,which we agreed to without any protest ,so we went out and did as ordered . However while we were grinding hostility we noticed that we are alone in doing so and that there was no other hostility generated by the swedes on the ports they were supposed to flip . When we contacted the swedes to inquire about the reasons for this turn of events we were met by a dismissive "we simply didn't feel like it". The fun thing is that we saw 20 swedes being reported outside SDC in lineships and soon combat news filled up with swedes sinking GB noobs and traders (as pretty much every experienced player was bussy with the multiflip). We had received no prior communication from the swedes to inform us about the cancelation of the multiflip.
Contrary to rediii's assertion and lies LAMA was one of the leading clans advocating for the end of the swedish alliance and consequent attack on them. To prove that redii is a lying little wench once and for all i will share some screenshot from british discord that i managed to find with a quick search and hope that my friends in prussia will forgive me as this was certainly not aimed against them but rather prove my point
As you can see i have provided irrefutable proof unlike rediii's lies which he regularly tells to his "allies" to make them follow him and ofc they did not have any way to verify that what he says is true so i'm mostly making this post for them. I had been contacted by some swedish captains asking why GB is so stubborn and won't agree to peace but when i explain to them what really happened they were surprised as apparently it was all presented very differently to them
I also attach a screenshot of Cid saying much of the same things i'm saying here in the forums
On the issue about why LAMA left GB , perhaps you should ask them directly if you really wanna know but all i will say is that there were other important factors involved and it was not because GB attacked sweden without their consent like rediii likes to claim
Also in contrast i would like to point out how funny it is when some BASTD guys after being fed up with the state of affairs and while we were still allies , organized a little ganking group in swedish waters which was meant again with outrage for tha one single time . However when the swedes did it for weeks it was fine lol. Also everyone remembers rediii's post in Tribunal where he complained because some brits kept him in battle for 2 hours to bring heavier ships and the incrediblue metric ton of insults our diplomats received in the joint discord aftewards for that one battle . Such comments as "you've wasted our time how dare you do that as our ally" were especually hilarious when you consider that they had ganked our hostility fleet before which had to first get organized , sail out to russian port , do hostility mission , get ganked by the russians and fight our way out , sail back fighting multiple battles , just to be ganked by swedish "allies" for another hour or so . Total? 4hours? Did we make tribunal? did we start a post on forum complaining about "backstabing" ? no we simple asked the swedes why and told them it's not nice
But the most funny part of all is this :
Sweden : OW PvP agreements are impossible and you are idiots for even thinking otherwise
Also Sweden : We will offer you peace but you have to agree to non PvP agreement in crafting region (3 itterations of their peace offers included this condition)
Which is ironic coz this is what GB has been asking from them ALL ALONG and if they had not been selfish uhmmm.. certain male genital organs , this war would had never happened , so our position is that this war happened because of the swedes .
As a closing statment i would like to say that it should be obvious that english is not my first language and ofc there are mistakes. Hopefully this post is good enough to convey the main issues.
Thanks for reading this longer than intended post
[ private conversations screenshots removed ] . Hethwill, the moderation team
Edited by John Sheppard: Fine i have cropped the screenshot to only show my message and Cid's post here on the forums which does not vialoate any rules and thefore isn't supposed to be removed @Hethwill