Safe Zones OP?

[King of Crowns]

1 hour ago, Zoky said:

One might thing that we have 3 PvE servers with 2 of them having optional port battles, and one would not be wrong

truth

[King of Crowns]

15 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

The point is to discourage it completely.  Go do your tagging where players actually want PvP.  If they're in the reinforcement zone they aren't interested. 

so pvp is only pvp if both parties are interested in pvp. if not its a gank right? and the problem still goes back to the fact that there is no reason for a player to ever leave Mortimer protected zone. they an experience the full content of the game without ever leaving protected zone with one exception-a port battle. this is why you see all the  veteran players out there doing missions in their victorys and oceans every day. 

[seanjo]

The safe zones are fine as they are, they let new players play without taking a devastating loss because some "PvPer" wants to sink an easy target. The population seems to be holding steady since the safe zones were introduced. I had the luxury of a relatively safe zone around West End, it encouraged me and got me addicted, if I had been ganked to buggery, I would not be here now.

There are plenty of opportunities for PvP around free ports and other places. Or are you too scared to face other real PvPers?

Edited October 29, 2017 by seanjo

[Christendom]

Safe zones are fine and well intentioned....and frankly long over due.  The problem is that folks never have to leave them.  

Solutions - 

Limit crafting inside safe zones and the capital.  Maybe you can only build up to a lvl 2 shipyard there.  I can see potential issues down the line with this, so perhaps each nation has a Safe zone by their capital that cannot have lvl 2s and then their other area that cannot be captured has the ability to create a lvl 3 but loses the safe zone.  For example, Brits have KPR and Belize.  KPR has the safe zone for noobs, but restricts what you craft.  Belize does not have the safe zone but doesn't have restrictions on shipyards and still cannot be captured.  This would create a "rookie zone" and a "hardcore zone" within each nation.  

Also making sure that each safe zone of ports does not have all the wood types necessary to make ships.  Basically all they have is fir and oak.  If you want white oak, teak or live oak you gotta go outside the zones.  

[Rigs]

7 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

I kind of like having a "tutorial zone" but it is a double edge razer sharp thing.

If you think about it ( and there's always a bigger shark out there );  Did, any player, materialized in the open sea being a very good captain dealing death and destruction ? Or did that PvPer had to practice, and practice and practice some more ?

I dislike how the "career" and planning made by the captains that are now considered the "sharks" is suddenly put aside as they were simply a part of nature, that they came to be without any kind of ...effort. For example, a trade raider knows trade routes because he spends a lot of time, open to being attacked, sailing the enemy areas and taking notes. Is he not in the same condition as the trade, player wise ? Is he not open to be attacked ? The same way a war captain, sailing his long cruiser frigate, looking for worthy enemies. Isn't he open to the full extent of PvP when he sails out ? The same way as all other players ?

Yes, the game requires pratice and getting into trouble a lot of times so one can learn. Maybe rushing to the biggest thing is not a smart decision as the Sharks in brigs can, due to their time in game, practice, practice and more practice, bring that big ship down.

If you think about it, 2000-3000 hours across 3 years of early access is normal. It means the player did not play any other game. And did only play 3 days per week, like 3 or 4 hours sessions.

 

To end, safe zones are safe. What is their purpose ? Should the roaming AI be removed from safe zones ? 

Removing Attack is really a bad suggestion. Look at the East territories and share how would a no attack rule would work...

 

 

 

That is the problem, the 4000 hours versus 0-400. When the game is new all the players are on par when it comes to experience as the game ages the gap between new and old players grows to a point of no return. Added to that, the older player have rare books, resources accumulated over the time, ships slots unlocked which increase the gap furthermore.

Problem with the game:

The game is no longer new and with it`s steep learning curve the new players cannot close that gap anymore, a guy that starts now will never be able to close the 4000 hours gap and become the very good captain dealing death and destruction. That's just a promissory note that good things will arrive at this point in time. 

The older players constantly forget they have 4000 hours in game and want the newer players to play the game like they do.  

The new players will stick around a bit to level up ships, ranks, get books etc. but then they will get clubbed and run into likes of those below so they will quit. 

The newer players will just get stomped and ridiculed without learning anything.

It's a game and nobody will play just to entertain others.  

4 hours ago, King of Crowns said:

good to see you consider yourself a newb.

 

6 hours ago, Zoky said:

One might thing that we have 3 PvE servers with 2 of them having optional port battles, and one would not be wrong

 

8 hours ago, Landsman said:

Sorry, couldn't help it.

 

Edited October 29, 2017 by Rigs

[Sunleader]

Right now Safezones are pretty much useless.

They have become so small that they dont even cover most Missions anymore.

As an Result the Playerbase is already Shrinking again.

 

Its pretty sad.

At this rate the Game will be pretty much dead in about a year or less.....

[Sven Silberbart]

bullshit

[Rigs]

1 minute ago, Sven Silberbart said:

bullshit

How many hours do you have in game?

[Liq]

10 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Right now Safezones are pretty much useless.

They have become so small that they dont even cover most Missions anymore.

As an Result the Playerbase is already Shrinking again.

 

Its pretty sad.

At this rate the Game will be pretty much dead in about a year or less.....

it still covers half range from Mortimer to Baracoa as an example. And you can simply re-take missions until you got a close one. No excuse there. 
(You playing for Prussia which it clearly states to be IMPOSSIBLE in the nation selection tab is a different story.. )

[Hethwill]

The reinforcement zones are not a new thing btw. Back then every single town had reinforcement button. Every single one.  ( oh and btw there was no teleports of any nature, only back to capital every 4 hours. )

As I put it, the guys with thousands of hours barely played any other game for 3 years. At average they played two or three days a week, sessions of 4 hours on average.

They are not a "exception", actually most of them are fairly subpar compared to powerplayers ( some of them play entire shifts of 8 hours...  ).

But we digress.

What is the issue with Reinforcement Zones at the moment ? Too big ? Too small ?

 

 

 

[RedNeckMilkMan]

7 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

I kind of like having a "tutorial zone" but it is a double edge razer sharp thing.

To end, safe zones are safe. What is their purpose ? Should the roaming AI be removed from safe zones ? 

Removing Attack is really a bad suggestion. Look at the East territories and share how would a no attack rule would work...

 

 

 

I am a huge fan of a zone where new players can learn the ropes. However I think that the max rank players with thousands of hours should not have access to this zone.

The capital safe zone is a decent idea but at least on PVP global there is simply not enough players to "find pvp in the OW" Hotspots are the only place.
Trading is dead since I can make 300k gold in one 1st rate mission where I never have to leave the safe zone. 

As far as the "East territories" I'm not sure what you mean by that.

[Hethwill]

The entire east islands chain ports are 1 minute sail from each other. It is a continuous reinforcement overlapping zones. Imagine the Attack option would be removed, it would become a PvE zone.

[RedNeckMilkMan]

1 minute ago, The Red Duke said:

The reinforcement zones are not a new thing btw. Back then every single town had reinforcement button. Every single one.  ( oh and btw there was no teleports of any nature, only back to capital every 4 hours. )

What is the issue with Reinforcement Zones at the moment ? Too big ? Too small ?

 

 

 

The old system was better than the current. 

The issue is the fact that for every enemy ship you get 2 AI first rates. Like come on. Not only that but they warp in on top of the tagger and basically one shot him. Friend lost a pirate frig to it yesterday.

[Hethwill]

You mean every single port in the map having Reinforcement button ? Or the Reinforcement button summing 1.2x the BR of the attackers ?

[RedNeckMilkMan]

Just now, The Red Duke said:

The entire east islands chain ports are 1 minute sail from each other. It is a continuous reinforcement overlapping zones. Imagine the Attack option would be removed.

I mean yeah being french I never have to leave the safe zone thus no risk. I think that every time you leave port should be a calculated risk.

[Barbancourt]

2 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

 

The issue is the fact that for every enemy ship you get 2 AI first rates. Like come on. Not only that but they warp in on top of the tagger and basically one shot him. Friend lost a pirate frig to it yesterday.

You aren't supposed to be tagging in the reinforcement zones.  At all.  That's the whole point. 

[RedNeckMilkMan]

Just now, The Red Duke said:

You mean every single port in the map having Reinforcement button ? Or the Reinforcement button summing 1.2x the BR of the attackers ?

Right now if they call reinforcements you literally cannot win the battle. Before you could at least fight and win. It wouldn't be easy. I don't think we need to go back to that system but the current one needs to change. It is overkill. And removes too much of the risk that makes this game fun. 

[Hethwill]

Just now, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

You aren't supposed to be tagging in the reinforcement zones.  At all.  That's the whole point. 

I repect that opinion, but that is wishful thinking.

Not that many attack there though. Not worth the effort.

Now, being attacked by the national in reinforcement zone earns the attacker no reinforcement.

[Farrago]

I don't go out looking for PVP very often but I know that when I'm out of the safe zone, I am fair game for any foe. And if I'm in a warship, I'm looking for targets.

I never have understood why some players consider those that sink them as evil. It's the goal of the game in the PVP servers. A batter in the World Series is not evil just because he wants to score even though that comes at the expense of the other team.

[RedNeckMilkMan]

4 hours ago, seanjo said:

There are plenty of opportunities for PvP around free ports and other places. Or are you too scared to face other real PvPers?

I like letting new players get a hang of things. But the vast majority of players on right now have over 500 hours in the game. The vast majority of players who use to safe zone to get rich with no chance of losing anything are max rank players. Max rank players are the ones who talk trash in global from the safety of their first rate dread fleet with warp technology. The problem is that when we are geared up and ready to go there isn't people looking for a fight. In the past week I have had 1 good pvp fight and since then I have had to take what ever falls into my lap. 

[Sunleader]

You just need to ask yourself how many new Names you read in Chat per Day.

It took me 3 Days before I literally knew every Single Player in the Faction and Stopped seeing new Names in Chat.

It took 3 more days before I finally saw a Name I didnt know.

 

Ask yourself.

How many New Players do you see per Week. And how many of em do you see again after a week has passed.

 

This Game in its current form has no Future.

Because a few Hundred Veteran Players Rule the Server which ensure that no new Player is allowed to have Fun.

Abd with the Safezones having been Shrunk to a laughable 15km which dont even cover most Missions. There is not even a way to avoid them.

 

Thanks to that the small gain of players we achieved last Months has already been swallowed up again.

 

And each Old Player that leaves is never replaced cause new players just have no chance in hell to ever get a foot on the ground

 

[RedNeckMilkMan]

49 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Right now Safezones are pretty much useless.

They have become so small that they dont even cover most Missions anymore.

As an Result the Playerbase is already Shrinking again.

 

Its pretty sad.

At this rate the Game will be pretty much dead in about a year or less.....

Are you crazy? I can literally craft a first rate without ever leaving the safe zone. 

I can earn millions running pve missions that are all inside the safe zone. 

[RedNeckMilkMan]

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

You just need to ask yourself how many new Names you read in Chat per Day.

It took me 3 Days before I literally knew every Single Player in the Faction and Stopped seeing new Names in Chat.

It took 3 more days before I finally saw a Name I didnt know.

 

Ask yourself.

How many New Players do you see per Week. And how many of em do you see again after a week has passed.

 

This Game in its current form has no Future.

Because a few Hundred Veteran Players Rule the Server which ensure that no new Player is allowed to have Fun.

Abd with the Safezones having been Shrunk to a laughable 15km which dont even cover most Missions. There is not even a way to avoid them.

 

Thanks to that the small gain of players we achieved last Months has already been swallowed up again.

 

And each Old Player that leaves is never replaced cause new players just have no chance in hell to ever get a foot on the ground

 

If you open the help chat you will notice since the steam sale there have been a number of new players asking for help. 

All you have to do if reroll your missions until they are in the safe zones. Most capital areas have every building/supply needed to build what ever ships you want. 

I want a place where new players can roam and learn. But I don't want veteran players to have access to it. Almost every MMO has a tutorial zone. Hell they could convert the PVE server into the Tutorial server. Then when they are ready they are moved to the PVP server. 

[Rigs]

7 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

Are you crazy? I can literally craft a first rate without ever leaving the safe zone. 

I can earn millions running pve missions that are all inside the safe zone. 

You are not making any sense mate, I will call it the older player syndrome, seeing the world through your eyes only.

What do you think is the point of earning millions on a PvP server? 

Take them to the bank and convert them into real money?

[Barbancourt]

4 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

Are you crazy? I can literally craft a first rate without ever leaving the safe zone. 

I can earn millions running pve missions that are all inside the safe zone. 

You've been trolled

 

6 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

I like letting new players get a hang of things. But the vast majority of players on right now have over 500 hours in the game. The vast majority of players who use to safe zone to get rich with no chance of losing anything are max rank players.

What does it matter to you if other people sail in their capital waters?  If you're attacking people who aren't interested in the fight, that's just shooting fish in a barrel.  Reinforcement zones aren't just about "new players".  They're about stopping the capital camping nonsense, where some groups were trying to make entire nations quit the game.  "max rank" doesn't mean squat if fleets with several times your BR are waiting to jump you right outside of port.