Patch 10.4 Conquest changes, Battle Groups, Wapen von Hamburg (III)

[[HRE] Lanfire]

Just now, Kanay said:

Santa Cecilia in picture ? How? What magic is this ? 
 

Basic Cutter vs LGV Dev event

 

[Kanay]

Just now, [HRE] Lanfire said:

Basic Cutter vs LGV Dev event

 

Ah i see, lucky you man, i miss this ship so much , enjoy and cherish it, damn i feel sad now 
 

[[HRE] Lanfire]

On 17.7.2017 at 11:35 AM, admin said:

Update

 

Hotfix 2 (07/21/2017)  Fun for everyone

 

• The exclusive content despite being a good idea is not received well by the players. Victory marks could converted from combat marks on all servers. Players of less competitive nations would be able to get access to victory marks using pve or pvp (but a bit slower).

 

@adminThis is great, but what we dont understand:

 

- PvP-Mark to Combat-Mark conversion was 1:2

- Conquest-Mark to Combat-Mark conversion was 1:10

and now: Victory-Mark to Combat-Mark conversion is 1:175 

This is something unbalanced and unintelligible.
1:50 would still be acceptable, but 1:175 is clearly too high

Edited July 26, 2017 by [HRE] Lanfire

[Hullabaloo]

3 hours ago, koltes said:

That was also news to me lol

lol? It's news to me too, glad I didn't say it. This is a discussion thread. The idea is to discuss things. You may feel the leaderboard is a positive thing on balance and that's fine. I don't, for reasons I have made clear. Different opinions is what it's about, I don't even care that much. It would be better if people actually tried to engage with the discussion rather than just misquoting or (deliberately) misinterpreting what someone has said, in order to try and 'win' the argument.

[seanjo]

It's all getting very complicated.

[Hodo]

2 hours ago, koltes said:

It is reduced from 10%

But devs! Really?

2 upgrades (gazelle+bovenwind refit) gives me sorry 4% speed increase while requiring 14% extra crew. 
Studs gives 0.006 and also requires another 7% (21% total crew penalty for about 6% total speed buff). That is way out of balance. Especially taking into account that Studs already have a penalty itself (-0.005 for Staysails). 



I have tested various setups and the total speed I'm getting just not worth the crew penalties. Not for a boarding ship.
I still recommend either making all mods 5% or keep Permanent upgrades 7%, but remove crew requirements from skills

The Crew penalties will have no bearing on your boarding setups.  I know it doesnt for me.  Just means I have to manage my crew a bit better and when I prep for boarding to turn off gunnery and sailing so they balance out with boarding.

[victor]

4 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

Yes, NA is the game. Enough of EVE

Hopefully it is bug fixes at the very least. Let's wait for notes.

NA is an alpha game trying to get a place in the MMO scenario. EVE online is a long time success MMO.

Wise people take inspiration from others' past experiences, the others are condemned to repeat others' past errors.

[Hethwill]

Not disagreeing Thread should be focused on what good can be to NA and not how bad or good a leaderboard of EVE is.

[Jesters-Ink]

1m 30s out of port on PvE, its not working, because we cant fight until this timer has run down.

[rotten_theet]

Where i can get info of new update ?

[Hethwill]

3 minutes ago, rotten_theet said:

Where i can get info of new update ?

The very first post on this thread has the general notes for the main Update + several hotfixes notes including the one from today.

[DeRuyter]

5 hours ago, koltes said:

It is reduced from 10%

But devs! Really?

2 upgrades (gazelle+bovenwind refit) gives me sorry 4% speed increase while requiring 14% extra crew. 
Studs gives 0.006 and also requires another 7% (21% total crew penalty for about 6% total speed buff). That is way out of balance. Especially taking into account that Studs already have a penalty itself (-0.005 for Staysails). 



I have tested various setups and the total speed I'm getting just not worth the crew penalties. Not for a boarding ship.
I still recommend either making all mods 5% or keep Permanent upgrades 7%, but remove crew requirements from skills

IMO this forces some decisions instead of everyone running max speed set ups. For boarding this may mean more crew management as @Hodo noted. Most of these mods should have some kind of penalty enforcing a trade off. Having said that extra sailing crew penalties should relate to the mod/skill used. Studding sails should require extra crew as they did IRL for example. An argument could be made for extra crew on certain rigging refits as well. The magic (err morale boosting) bow figures should offer some small benefit and leave it at that.

[Hullabaloo]

7 minutes ago, DeRuyter said:

this forces some decisions instead of everyone running max speed set ups

Totally agree. The ubiquitous max speed Surprise was getting a bit dull, OP as a boarding vessel. Even I could cap another 5th rate in it and I'm hopeless, its no wonder they were everywhere. We need to see more imaginative ship fits and a wider range of ships being used for pvp. If you want big speed then you need to pay a big penalty and crew seems the obvious choice. This has already got me thinking about different ships and set ups.

[Hethwill]

6% can be from 0.06 knt up to 0,83 knt depending on the ship used and design specifics. So no, it is not "too little".

Please devs, do work with hard values, not %%. The gaps are huge with %%.

[Hodo]

43 minutes ago, DeRuyter said:

IMO this forces some decisions instead of everyone running max speed set ups. For boarding this may mean more crew management as @Hodo noted. Most of these mods should have some kind of penalty enforcing a trade off. Having said that extra sailing crew penalties should relate to the mod/skill used. Studding sails should require extra crew as they did IRL for example. An argument could be made for extra crew on certain rigging refits as well. The magic (err morale boosting) bow figures should offer some small benefit and leave it at that.

This brings up another suggestion that I wish would happen.

LESS CREW FOR DIFFERENT SAIL SETTINGS!

Full Sails = 100% sails = 100% sail crew.

Half Sails = 80% sails = 80% sail crew.

Slow = 60% sails = 60% sail crew.

Battle Sails = 40% sails = 40% sail crew.

 

[Koltes]

7 hours ago, Hodo said:

The Crew penalties will have no bearing on your boarding setups.  I know it doesnt for me.  Just means I have to manage my crew a bit better and when I prep for boarding to turn off gunnery and sailing so they balance out with boarding.

Yes it will. Not on boarding, but on managing crew in battle. If you have marines you are already lacking reload. Add speed mods and its double reload time.

[Koltes]

3 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

6% can be from 0.06 knt up to 0,83 knt depending on the ship used and design specifics. So no, it is not "too little".

Please devs, do work with hard values, not %%. The gaps are huge with %%.

Thats why I offered to run linear coefficient formulas where each ship sailing controlled by coefficient assigned to that particular ship

[Hodo]

19 minutes ago, koltes said:

Yes it will. Not on boarding, but on managing crew in battle. If you have marines you are already lacking reload. Add speed mods and its double reload time.

I know on my Indefatigable, with longs on the gun deck and mediums on the weather deck, I have an abundance of 40 men for gun crew, to man 50% of the guns on the entire ship.   

If the ship requires 260 men for guns, I only need 130 for actual gun crew to be combat effective.  As long as I am not trying to pull off double broadsides and the such.  I wouldnt be able to do it normally with the ship bone stock.   

Again comes down to crew management.  

If you want to have a full broadside gun crew compliment then you may have to do one of two things, either run hammocks, or reduce your sailing crew during battle, by letting it auto balance with both gunnery and sailing turned on.

[Slamz]

Seems to me we should just remove all speed mods.

Let speed be purely a function of ship build and point of sail.

Trying to reach a point where a speed mod is right in the middle of worth it and not worth it is very difficult and -- unlike other mods -- it is extremely critical to make the correct choice for your ship on this.

Personally I still find speed mods to be pretty mandatory because a Connie that goes 14 knots is still going to catch a Connie that goes 13.7 knots. Of all the stats you can choose to buff, speed is the most likely to determine who lives and who dies.

To my eye, Koltes suggestions are really just guaranteeing that speed mods are mandatory for everyone, in which case what's the point of having them at all? It's only "customization" if there is some valid reason why you might prefer something different.

[Guest]

Whatever penalties you introduce for speed mods, it's still the thing that gets you out of dodge from bad situations in a way that having more crew or hull wont. 7 or 10% sail crew is inconsequential.

Ship meta or a mod meta, either way, what matters is that it's virtually impossible to catch speedy ships with the new repair system.

Having to chase people down for 1 cycle of sail repairs pre-patch wasn't much fun either, but at least it was bearable when fights would take 30-40mins instead of chasing for the full 1.5 hours and then the battle timer ends anyways. It's no wonder why all that gankers go for is PvErs who aren't fit for those kind of chase scenes and no one is willing to bother hunting them down because it's such a waste of time.

[Cmdr RideZ]

On 7/24/2017 at 11:53 PM, koltes said:

Surp is not OP. Its just most people who sail it have decent skills

LOL

In every game, when something is better than the rest -> Masses use it.

Do not cheat yourself.  Surprise is the easiest ship to sail, there is absolutely nothing related to skill here.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Cmdr RideZ

[Hethwill]

26 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Surprise is the easiest ship to sail

Surprise does forgive more than a lot of mistakes and "flies on rails". I will agree with you sir.

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

Surprise is very forgiving, one of the best sailing profile, turns well, short enough for good rake, very potent carro config, and if i remember well the only frigate with 4 stern chasers while still having bow chasers, require no furnishing.   

What are her downsides please ? Some frigs have been nerfed to hell to leave space for others ships (Endymion for ex) but tell my why use any other 5th rank than Surprise ? Something needs to be done.

[Cmdr RideZ]

Maybe some kind of player crafted fleets, protecting a region or a port.

Ships from these fleets could be captured by other players.

You may have to balance ship prices in general for this to work.  Ships cannot be so expensive that none wants to sell those for local authority.

You could go even so far that every ship is player crafted in the end.  Players providing the ships.  May need some kind of buffer that there is actually AI ships in the game even tho none crafts those.

These ships can be captured, but as players crafted those, economy stays player driven.

We may run to an issue.. Players do not want to craft ships for their enemy, because those are so expensive?  This is an issue already.  Ships prices are ok when people want to sell those for AI use.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Cmdr RideZ

[Vernon Merrill]

5 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

LOL

In every game, when something is better than the rest -> Masses use it.

Do not cheat yourself.  Surprise is the easiest ship to sail, there is absolutely nothing related to skill here.

Well.....   much depends on what your situation/goals as a player are.  I use my Surprise because I mostly solo (not always by choice)hunt.  I NEED a ship that can 1) cover a decent amount of open world(decent sailing profile at many points) , 2) have a chance of catching an opponent I choose to engage(speed/chasers) and 3) have a decent chance to get away if I choose to disengage since I live out of Freeports and dont have an endless supplies/ships on this server(speed/rear chasers).

Would I choose it strictly as a trader-raider?  Nope

Would I choose it strictly as a brawler?  Nope.

Would I choose it strictly as a quick way to traverse the map?  Nope.

Would I choose it to be one of the better combos of all those?  Yep.