Hotfix 1 for patch 10.3

[Duncan McFail]

15 minutes ago, SeaHyena said:

See real OW PvP players don't want to doing boring ass revenge fleets. They want real fights that are a challenge, not some stupid revenge gank where you can abuse the shit out of mechanics to gain an advantage. I've done 3.6k hours of OW pvp ONLY, I have no desire for garbage unrealistic fights. NA Is supposed to be a realistic game, revenge fleets are not and are stupid as you can possibly get. 

Lol. You are so comical. You're basing an argument of game mechanics being realistic. But your solution is give me a tp to my safe place or give me more invisibility. It's a game. In any game if you camp the enemy's starter zone you get hunted. Try hunting across the border of your zone where either of you can be reinforced. Oh but there's not a ton of people there and you won't get a bite every time you exit battle. High enemy populated zones=quicker response time to incursions. And don't give me this real pvper crap when 90% of your kills are trader ships. As the players establish themselves those counter-hunter squads will get harder and harder. Sooner than later this will weed out the lesser hunters and only the clever ones will be able to make it worthwhile. 

[Sureshot]

10 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

And don't give me this real pvper crap when 90% of your kills are trader ships.

I find this funny, you have no idea who I am. I've never seen you before. 90% of my kills? lol, I can guarantee you they aren't. I bet 90% of my battles I was outnumbered, that is what I enjoy and It's more challenging. You know people with brains like to be challenged, not just have a victory handed to them where enemy has no way of escaping. 

Quote

But your solution is give me a tp to my safe place or give me more invisibility

My solution is the 150% speed boost so you cannot sit on the exact position of an enemy and tag them when they get out. Revenge fleets didn't exist in the age of sail. I find it so comical people get triggered when there might be a solution to stop people with no lives from tagging over and over so people with lives can't log off. 

Edited June 28, 2017 by SeaHyena

[JobaSet]

6 minutes ago, SeaHyena said:

I find this funny, you have no idea who I am. I've never seen you before. 90% of my kills? lol, I can guarantee you they aren't. I bet 90% of my battles I was outnumbered, that is what I enjoy and It's more challenging. You know people with brains like to be challenged, not just have a victory handed to them where enemy has no way of escaping. 

My solution is the 150% speed boost so you cannot sit on the exact position of an enemy and tag them when they get out. Revenge fleets didn't exist in the age of sail. I find it so comical people get triggered when there might be a solution to stop people with no lives from tagging over and over so people with lives can't log off. 

When NA 2.0 arcade game come out I look forward to fighting you

[Sureshot]

21 minutes ago, JobaSet said:

When NA 2.0 arcade game come out I look forward to fighting you

Judging by what liquicty did do you it should be fun.

I Am also looking forward to arena!

Edited June 28, 2017 by SeaHyena

[JobaSet]

Just now, SeaHyena said:

Judging by what liquicty did do you it should be fun.

I Am also looking for to arena!

LOL even Liq knew I had no Mods or perks. And I don't have to Brag...  I never saw you.

[TommyShelby]

@Daguse

1 example;

A group of 5 go into a fight with AI. Outside they have a scout sitting at their battLe. 

The 5 people in the battle sails away from The AI (the ai doesn't leave = battle doesn't close.

Then the scout sees an enemy ship approaching, he tells they guys in battle and then the guys in battle leaves and sails over to the enemy ship with the "cloak" on. 

 

While it never happened to me there many many posts about these situations last time we tested invisibility.

I don't think not being able to see the enemy ship would fix this because their scout can guide them as to which direction and how far away the enemy ship is.

[Zooloo]

When it becomes a norm to escape a balanced fight to team up with the friends you called to wait outside, turning 1v2s ionto 1v10s, it means ROE doesnt promote challenging OW PvP.

Look at how they took Liq's Santa cecilia or this pathetic battle,

Fix revenge fleets pls.

[Hawkwood]

13 hours ago, Liquicity said:

Thats not gonna happen in infront of a capital as you've got a 3 minute join timer, which even allows ship still in port to leave port, prepare their ship (which took its time IRL), and join the battle.
However, if you're not DIRECTLY at the capital but still somewhere in enemy waters (where you can actually expect to meet someone; I have yet to find a single pvp battle in the middle of the ocean in no nation's waters), if no reinforcements join in 3 minutes BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT AROUND, why would the attacked ship get any help?
IRL (in real life), after an engagement, the victorious captain would sail back to port after engagement, but ingame you can simply call out where you got attacked so that the guys outside can prepare themselves with ease..
Let me give you an example:
I attacked two swedish surprises while being alone in my cecilia. This was not outside the capital, but still in their waters where one can actually expect to find pvp.
Guess what they did? The two chained me to death, so they could leave and then outside join a group of 8 ships to form a 10v1 revenge fleet versus me. As I had to leave to OW at some time, there was just no way I would get away.

Quote from the steam store page:
Naval Action is a hardcore, realistic, and beautifully detailed naval combat sandbox

Having to deal with in-teleporting ships lining up outside your battle is not realistic nor hardcore under my impression. Hardcore = By leaving port you are aware of the risk of loosing the ship. No need to give anyone a second, arcadey chance to take revenge.

But hey, what do I know, only played this game for about 3930 hours, guess I'm still a noob.

How about being automatically teleported to your starting position/port, for both sides, when the battle is over?

Edited June 28, 2017 by Cortez

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Zooloo said:

When it becomes a norm to escape a balanced fight to team up with the friends you called to wait outside, turning 1v2s ionto 1v10s, it means ROE doesnt promote challenging OW PvP.

Look at how they took Liq's Santa cecilia or this pathetic battle,

Fix revenge fleets pls.

Isn't that a capital area battle since they reinforced beyond 3 minutes?

[Elbizor]

3 hours ago, Zooloo said:

When it becomes a norm to escape a balanced fight to team up with the friends you called to wait outside, turning 1v2s ionto 1v10s, it means ROE doesnt promote challenging OW PvP.

Look at how they took Liq's Santa cecilia or this pathetic battle,

Fix revenge fleets pls.

Video just shows you sinking a surprise

Are you saying the trinc joins and then leaves to give the exit position to a revenge squad?

Edited June 28, 2017 by Elbizor

[Duncan McFail]

5 hours ago, SeaHyena said:

I find this funny, you have no idea who I am. I've never seen you before. 90% of my kills? lol, I can guarantee you they aren't. I bet 90% of my battles I was outnumbered, that is what I enjoy and It's more challenging. You know people with brains like to be challenged, not just have a victory handed to them where enemy has no way of escaping.

I'm not trying to assault you personally. I'm talking about hunters in general that go to the enemy capital to hunt. They come in 15 knot capped ships and they attack whatever targets they can take in their failfit ship. This is usually traders or players in the middle of missions. Occasionally you might find an equal ship and give it a go. When the going gets rough you can always choose to when to bug out. Maybe you get jumped by 2 to 1 odds and come out on top. I know this because I've seen it. I know this because that's how I hunt too. But you're making yourself out to be the guy that only looks for an even fight hunting at the enemy capital which doesn't add up. Like some kinda gentleman wolf prancing through the forest.  If you like even fights don't hunt for them in enemy waters. Hit up global chat and ask for an open world duel with someone close. 

5 hours ago, SeaHyena said:

My solution is the 150% speed boost so you cannot sit on the exact position of an enemy and tag them when they get out. Revenge fleets didn't exist in the age of sail. I find it so comical people get triggered when there might be a solution to stop people with no lives from tagging over and over so people with lives can't log off. 

The point is don't tout about the realism of a game mechanic when you're asking for an unrealistic solution. How is a 150% speed boost realistic compared to a revenge fleet sitting outside your battle? Probably the only way I'd have respect for your suggestion with realism as your reasoning would be if you wanted no instanced battles with battle speed in open world. Although that would make for a crap game. As a game mechanic I support favor going toward the defenders in their waters versus the hunters in enemy waters. A few tweaks with the current system will separate the elite hunters from the trash. The elite will separate their group and beat those 10 guys using divide and conquer strats.

[sveno]

Guys really, seven pages discussion with no correspondence to OP?

This is becoming spam in the classical sense, hasn't everything including solutions been discussed in so many threads already?

[TommyShelby]

22 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

The point is don't tout about the realism of a game mechanic when you're asking for an unrealistic solution. How is a 150% speed boost realistic compared to a revenge fleet sitting outside your battle? Probably the only way I'd have respect for your suggestion with realism as your reasoning would be if you wanted no instanced battles with battle speed in open world. Although that would make for a crap game. As a game mechanic I support favor going toward the defenders in their waters versus the hunters in enemy waters. A few tweaks with the current system will separate the elite hunters from the trash. The elite will separate their group and beat those 10 guys using divide and conquer strats.

Just as realistic innit?

Get rid of the silly revenge gank fleets... 

Even without the revenge fleets I'd dare say that the odds aren't in favor of the hunter neat enemy waters. There is only 1 hunter but plenty of "defenders".

The hunter who ventures into enemy waters knows that he might face a fleet of 20, but he also knows he might be lucky and catch a ship of about equal strength. 

In OW we are equal. When one side is in battle and an enemy fleet is on the OW. Then we are not equal. Simple as that. 

[Koltes]

20 hours ago, TommyShelby said:

Well 1 example of a suggestion made was to make it so only the defenders get the option to TP to port.

Another example of a suggestion was to make the TP tò port option BR based. So if you attack someone and you have 1.5x BR of the person/group you attack, you don't get the TP to port option. However if you have 1.0 BR then you do get the option. (Numbers are arbitrary)

Gankers gets revenge ganked and those who engage in "even" battles don't. 

Both options will be quite useless Tommy.

Let me draw some examples.

 

Option 1 - TP only available to defenders.

So as a person who is surrounded and being hunted I cant even do one thing that would save me - defensive tag. If defense tag, then no TP and the chase starts again. If I dont deffense tag then we enter BI on their terms and I'll be sunk.

 

Option 2 - BR difference. Whowever has less BR gets TP home.

So chasers follow you in split group. Those who tag you have less BR. The rest follow outside pull distance, but in visibility. As defeder you start the battle with higher BR and dont get TP back. If tag was bad the rest wont join and will just wait outside.

 

This is a broken mechanic already that is trying to fix another broken mechanic. And when it wont work you will come out with another broken mechanic so it can sort second so the second can sort first. When is this going to end?

We have by far more natural ways to go about balancing things. Its like fixing a weak beer. Instead of sorting proper brewery process you just add shot of spirit... Yeah it become more alcoholic, but is still rubbish

Edited June 28, 2017 by koltes

[Aphilas]

@JobaSet do you even OW PvP?

Besides revenge fleets and hiding in NPC battles to gank I mean.

It's a trick question btw. Because OW PvP is dead.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Aphilas

[TommyShelby]

16 minutes ago, koltes said:

Both options will be quite useless Tommy.

Let me draw some examples.

 

Option 1 - TP only available to defenders.

So as a person who is surrounded and being hunted I cant even do one thing that would save me - defensive tag. If defense tag, then no TP and the chase starts again. If I dont deffense tag then we enter BI on their terms and I'll be sunk.

 

Option 2 - BR difference. Whowever has less BR gets TP home.

So chasers follow you in split group. Those who tag you have less BR. The rest follow outside pull distance, but in visibility. As defeder you start the battle with higher BR and dont get TP back. If tag was bad the rest wont join and will just wait outside.

 

This is a broken mechanic already that is trying to fix another broken mechanic. And when it wont work you will come out with another broken mechanic so it can sort second so the second can sort first. When is this going to end?

We have by far more natural ways to go about balancing things. Its like fixing a weak beer. Instead of sorting proper brewery process you just add shot of spirit... Yeah it become more alcoholic, but is still rubbish

BR thing could be based on the BR once the batlle closes for further entry.

But hey, I'm just making suggestions that compromise. None of my suggestions are the dream scenario for me personally, but its stuff I think I can work with and I think the people who likes revenge fleets can work with.

[Liq]

13 hours ago, Daguse said:

So first I got to ask, if you don't expect revenge fleets, please do share where you pvp. Maybe we can use that as a case study for the rest of the game. Everywhere else seems to have them.

I dont expect them as in I dont think they should even be a thing and therefore not needed to be expected by anyone.

Obviously game mechanics allow them right now. But only because you can do something, that doesn't mean it's a good and proper game mechanic.

[Koltes]

2 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

BR thing could be based on the BR once the batlle closes for further entry.

But hey, I'm just making suggestions that compromise. None of my suggestions are the dream scenario for me personally, but its stuff I think I can work with and I think the people who likes revenge fleets can work with.

Mate, I'm just pointing out that this just wont work. Compromise is fine.

BR thing could be based on the BR once the batlle closes for further entry.
Think about it. The revenge fleet will not fill in BR if the tag is bad. The rest will be waiting outside. If you run in battle they will let you go - no TP for you anyway and they will wait for you outside. If you turn and try to give fight instead then they all will join in.
With this mechanics you are doomed either way.

Maybe you should get 2 minutes invisibility. And then additional 1 minute no attack timer so you cant ninja jump people from nowhere. If people can't run with 2 minute invisibility they need to go play candy crush 

[Grundgemunkey]

I dont see a way to resolve this to the satisfaction of everyome ... those that want pvp ..I understand that you dont want to be stuck for hours in game  getting tagged and retagged by revenge fleets .. but also why should they be allowed to operate just off a nations capital attack traders and get away without risk...

any escape mechanic encourages ganking ...which drives people away from the game ..

my idea to try and balance for this is there is a zone  similar to the green zone ..lets call it a blue zone .... that extends say 25 miles around all coast line ... any battle within the blue zone the current rules apply ... outside the blue zone you can exit the battle to  anywhere in a 25 mile circle of the the battle instance

this way as an attacker you know if your attacking within the blue zone .. there may be a chance of a revenge fleet waiting for you ... outside the blue zone you have a better chance of escaping any fleet waiting

[Liq]

32 minutes ago, koltes said:

Both options will be quite useless Tommy.

Let me draw some examples.

 

Option 1 - TP only available to defenders.

So as a person who is surrounded and being hunted I cant even do one thing that would save me - defensive tag. If defense tag, then no TP and the chase starts again. If I dont deffense tag then we enter BI on their terms and I'll be sunk.

 

Option 2 - BR difference. Whowever has less BR gets TP home.

So chasers follow you in split group. Those who tag you have less BR. The rest follow outside pull distance, but in visibility. As defeder you start the battle with higher BR and dont get TP back. If tag was bad the rest wont join and will just wait outside.

 

This is a broken mechanic already that is trying to fix another broken mechanic. And when it wont work you will come out with another broken mechanic so it can sort second so the second can sort first. When is this going to end?

We have by far more natural ways to go about balancing things. Its like fixing a weak beer. Instead of sorting proper brewery process you just add shot of spirit... Yeah it become more alcoholic, but is still rubbish

Option 3 - Logoff feature after battle in the first 15 minutes, when you re-enter to OW you have a 'you cannot attack anyone' during 15 minutes. So no more invisibility cloaking ganking devices.

[Captain Lust]

23 hours ago, admin said:

Fort and towers have received increased BR to allow easier leveling of Mortar brig

Does this mean my mate can unlock his slots by destroying forts in OW? Or is it only possible in PB? Mortar Brig is all my mate wants to play and it's getting tedious to demast enemies so he can hit and get in some xp... 

[Liq]

2 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

but also why should they be allowed to operate just off a nations capital attack traders and get away without risk...

Outside a capital that won't happen due to the fact that capital areas are populated and you've got a 3 min join timer which even allows ships in port to prepare their ship and join the battle, which would have taken way longer IRL.

You can't find any pvp NOT in enemy waters (except becoming a revenge fleeter yourself, but nah). I have never had a single pvp battle in the middle of the ocean in no nations waters due to the fact that it's empty and no reason for anyone to be there.

You should be able to attack ships without the enemy being able to create a revenge fleet IMO, because it's supposed to ressemble reality, and in reality the Constitution didn't have to deal with inteleporting ships after the Java surrendered to her. Game is advertised as hardcore.

[Aphilas]

There is quite easy solution - move missions that require rank 5 or higher ship away from capitals and place them around "frontlines". Naturally causing conflict and generating content - nation working together to be able to farm, hostility raising/dropping natural way and PvPing against other nation at the frontline. This would also prevent most of newbie ganks since capitals will become newbland - most of PvPers have 0 interest in ganking snows, brigs and the like.

Rated ships farming fleet missions in vicinity of forts and 2 mins away from capital has to go. It doesn't matter what town one picks mission at - it should be placed between your nations and hostile nations ports.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Aphilas

[TommyShelby]

3 minutes ago, koltes said:

Mate, I'm just pointing out that this just wont work. Compromise is fine.

BR thing could be based on the BR once the batlle closes for further entry.
Think about it. The revenge fleet will not fill in BR if the tag is bad. The rest will be waiting outside. If you run in battle they will let you go - no TP for you anyway and they will wait for you outside. If you turn and try to give fight instead then they all will join in.
With this mechanics you are doomed either way.

Maybe you should get 2 minutes invisibility. And then additional 1 minute no attack timer so you cant ninja jump people from nowhere. If people can't run with 2 minute invisibility they need to go play candy crush 

Yeah its tough to come up with something that cannot be abused. 
I'd be fine with long enough invisibility that i can either log off or try and make a run for it. Problem is, as pointed out earlier, previous testing of invisibility has shown that it will be abused very much. 
Personally, TP to nearest Free Port or invisibility is fine for me.

[Vernon Merrill]

Lol'ing atvall the RvR players who have never sailed solo out of their green zone complaining about "whining"...  

Although, to be fair, I guess this is how I feel when you guys bitch about timers in those "occasional chain-shot regattas" called Port Battles....

Nobody complaining about this issue wants to run around in fail-fit boats ganking solo traders or jumping low level player missions.  We want rules of engagement that allow OW PvP to occur in all areas of the map.  Because right now, it's all just people bunched up in their little green areas.  It never used to be like that.  The Windward Passage was a complete shit-show.   And it was FUN.

Again, just because "you" don't experience the broken game mechanic does NOT mean their isn't one...